I just bought a 1968 Superposed 20 gauge Lightning Skeet gun LNIB [yes, it came with the factory box.]

Browning Canada refinished the gun in 2008 at the original owner's expense thus I believe I may safely assume it was not a salt gun because it also came with the work order and correspondence. The gentleman even requested the bores to be re-polished. Sadly, the original owner was diagnosed shortly thereafter with the big C and stopped shooting the piece.

Questions: was there any difference between the early stocks and the later stocks?

I ask because I have the opportunity to buy a second set of stocks for field shooting.

Pictures?

DF

Sorry righty now I have Photobucket issues like most everyone else. Need to tend to that in the near future.

The gun looks just like the catalog pics for 1967 - Skeet - Lightning, 26 1/2" barrels, looks minty, PG and beavertail fore end, 22 LPI checkering, 99% but factory refurbished. The "Made in Belgium" is sharp but the "B" in "Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo & Montreal PQ" and some other barrel stamping have slightly rounded edges and are no longer sharp on the edges if you know the tell tale signs of a re-blued gun. However, the engraving on the receiver has been freshened up nicely to crisp, sharp edges by a practiced hand. High quality blue finish.

Sorry, but this gun is no longer LNIB. Its been refinished, and apparently it is very is easy to tell.

If the original stock fits, just shoot it and be happy. In my world, it has little collector value.

Just IMHO.

Open an account on Imgur, easy to do.

Then upload photos from your computer. I put Imgur and My Pictures both on half page. Click, drag and drop photo from computer to Imgur.

Then hit "images", click on the picture you want to post. There will appear to the right, a list of options. Click on the next to last, post on this site.

Much easier than PB.

DF

It never ceases to amaze me that if a firearm has had one tiny screw replaced, it instantly loses all collector value, yet a car can be restored with the gear shift knob being the only original part and still command collector price.

Great comparison between American views on firearms and automobiles. I am inclined to take a more Continental look at refurbished/restored firearms myself. If the work is done by factory authorized personnel and there is provenance to that effect, I'm good with it.

The gun was never purchased as a collector piece but as a shooter with polished bores and a great finish that should perform said tasks nicely in the years to come at the range or in the field.

Thanks for the tutorial, DF!

Nice gun.

When Canada Browning refurbed it, seems they did a different forearm checkering pattern. It looks good, just doesn't look like OEM checkering.

DF

I noticed that too

That is a fine shotgun and if Browning did the work it is an original Browning. I've seen a couple Browning redone 20Ga Belgiums go for the equivalent of LNIB. I've also seen NIB examples have some of the stampings come-out less than perfect.

Brits don't hesitate in the least to send their ultra high-end shotguns back to the maker for cleanup, stock alterations, reblue, finish etc and consider them like new if the work is a complete redo.

To repeat, that is a fine shotgun and not many over here are made to it's standard. CSMC probably being the only ones to do so.

Browning does that checkering pattern, however, you don't see it all that often.

S&A

[Your comment from the Savage Collector's Forum]

"I would send the barrel to Briley and let them install thin wall, flush chokes... you will get a LOT more use out of it. I have never understood the reasoning for a double gun to have the same chokes - it defeats the purpose."

The secret to SK & SK barrels is to shoot two different loads down the barrels when hunting birds. I shoot Kent Target Steel #7s in the first barrel and Kent Upland Steel #6s in the second barrel for grouse thus the gun gives me a tighter pattern if I need a pull the trigger again for a missed bird or on a double.

Cheers.


Thanks you as well Battue for the confirmation of the factory checkering pattern. Can't wait to get to the skeet range and shoot some holes in the sky.

Below is a link to the identical shotgun NIB for 3K:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678583490

I found OP's forearm/checkering pattern in Schwing's Browning book, a 1972 vintage Skeet, 4 barrels set.

I have no idea how long this Skeet style forearm was offered. I had missed that configuration.

This factory refurbished gun, IMO, is very desirable and I wouldn't discount it much at all.

DF

"The secret to SK & SK barrels is to shoot two different loads down the barrels when hunting birds. I shoot Kent Target Steel #7s in the first barrel and Kent Upland Steel #6s in the second barrel for grouse thus the gun gives me a tighter pattern if I need a pull the trigger again for a missed bird or on a double."

I read that statement with interest; it brought back memories. Ten yrs. ago, I ended up with Major Charles Askins, Sr.'s personal 1932 Superposed Browning. He had Browning build this gun to his specs. As some of us older guys remember, the Major was one of the premier gun writer of his day, a shotgun guru; he was Charlie Askins Jr.'s Dad.

The Major had this gun choked 50% up, 45% down. It's marked Full/Full, so it's pretty evident Browning USA open those chokes to suit him. He loved to shoot desert quail, was reportedly pretty good at it.

These chokes are approx. Sk #2 and I.C. While shooting patterns with this gun, I found that fast loads opened up and slower loads grouped tighter, larger shot tended to group a bit tighter than smaller shot. High brass #9's are a real hoot for close in quail shooting.

It's pretty amazing what one can do with open chokes, adjusting patterns with shell selection.

DF

Congratulations on a beautiful and storied Superposed, DF.

To add for more fun on two barrels of chaos the Kent Target Steel #7s run at 1200 fps while Kent Upland Steel #6s are measured at 1500 fps. I found that the steel target loads run out of gas around 35 yards on live birds hence the 6s.

Some sexy grousey Superposed in here.

Well, I guess you guys don't know any Browning collectors then................

As an add to sending the guns back to Browning...

Got a DEAL on a useless choke combo in Superposed. I sent the Super Full/Full barrel back to the maker and had them open it up to Mod/Imp which not only increased the value of the gun, but make it usable. They also RESTAMPED the gun to reflect new constriction.

I sent an A-5 barrel back at the same time to have it opened up and restamped from Full to Mod

Bert, do you have to use steel shot for upland hunting up there in Canada where you hunt?

one of my favorite shotguns

Good question. I wouldn't want to let steel shot anywhere near Jonathan Browning's finest.......

"I wouldn't want to let steel shot anywhere near Jonathan Browning's finest......."

Soft steel barrels?

Previously I have used steel in my Beretta and Fausti O/Us. Simply put I refuse to shoot lead through any bird I intend to put on the table - my choice. As a matter of fact, I have not used anything less than copper bullets on deer for about a decade now too. Same reasoning.

I've got to hear this theory...

Have you seen bird flesh discolored by lead shot? I don't care for it.

Lead compounds are very toxic.

Elemental lead (metal) generally passes thru the digestive system, not that big a problem.

Steel shot will probably crack a tooth easier than lead shot.

IMO, teeth are the biggest hazard to shot in game.

DF

That would more likely be the gray graphite used as a coating. Almost all the penetration holes I see on Grouse show no evidence of either lead or graphite. Just a hole with perhaps some red surrounding.

If you handload shotshells you will get more lead exposure in a single setting, than by eating a lifetime of lead killed Birds.

In addition, I know guys who have handloaded shotshells for decades. Handling lead and breathing in the dust that comes off them. Some have thought it wise to be tested for exposure. No problems.

And you would be correct in a way. Difference being they are not users of their pristine examples. They have their circle, and place value on different criteria. However, the fact is that shotgun will sell as is for $2800-3500 and most of them would buy it for $2800 and then turn it for a profit.

Then I should feel really good since I paid less than $1K US for the little gem.

Again: old stock / NIB. This is a link for the identical shotgun for 3K for devout collectors:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678583490

Have at it. You should be able to negotiate a better price.

If the seller is patient it will sell for 3. However, it looks like he is a dealer. Probably has around 2, maybe a little more in it. Unless he is a plick, then less. Unlike us, they are in it for reasons other than fun.

I agree 100% with that. We lived in the little berg of Chester, NJ back in the day. There was a noted Browning collector who also lived there at the time. He traveled to the big gun shows in Reno, etc and the big high end auctions (James Julia, Rock Island, etc) when there was something that interested him. Talked to him at the LGS, from time to time.

My point was that his definition of "LNIB" and the OP's definition of "LNIB" are quite far apart. Perhaps I didn't make that point very artfully. And I certainly meant no disrespect to anybody.

NB

"My point was that his definition of "LNIB" and the OP's definition of "LNIB" are quite far apart. Perhaps I didn't make that point very artfully. And I certainly meant no disrespect to anybody."

Some days it seems us old farts got nothing better to do than pick the fly [bleep] outta pepper or split hairs if you rather. I'm not offended on my part.

I used the term LNIB loosely to refer to appearances: "LIKE NIB" in regards to the factory refurbished condition of the firearm as it sits now and the fact that it came not only with the beat up original factory box and also included was the correspondence between original owner and Browning Canada and said work order. As I stated earlier, the piece was bought as a mechanically and cosmetically restored shooter and it will be going with me to New Brunswick this fall to hunt birds.

To contrast my firearm, I posted a link to a TRUE NIB example of the identical Superposed. Some guys at the Savage Collectors Forum would be raising stones by now and calling me a heretic for daring to speak so flagrantly.

Cheers.

NB


You are one of the good guys around here. We all know it and there is no reason for any of us to take offense.

Best wishes for a safe and memorable fall Bird season.


Bud has one just like this one with a field forend. (Which I would prefer for a Grouse Gun.) It was his Fathers and both of them die hard Grouse hunters. No many shotguns can say it has put as many Pa. Ruffed Grouse into a game coat.

Yep, especially if the shot has oxidized and is dusty.

Wearing a mask isn't a bad idea.

Casting bullets is probably as bad if not worse.

DF


Edited to add, normal people spell hazzard with only one "Z"...

It's the lead exposure.

One thing about the Superposed, it's one tough piece of machinery.

No telling how many desert quail the Major's old Super has taken. And it locks up perfectly tight, no evidence of many decades of use.

DF

Could be...

DF

In that particular 20Ga, 28in barrels are where it is at. I've been tempted on a couple. the last one not that long ago. Chokes? Whatever. In fact a Mod and Full would be my first preference.

I think it meets the criteria of LNIB- "Like" New In Box.

I agree with 28" barrels, 12 ga. included.

The Major's 12 ga. Super posted above has 28" barrels and he knew some stuff about shotguns and how they handle.

I have 26" and 28" Supers, like the 28"s better, even for fast handling.

Df

Dang , I hunted the heck out of the Black River WMA back in the early 80's with my great Brittany Brutus .

Dang , I hunted the heck out of the Black River WMA back in the early 80's with my great Brittany Brutus .
[/quote]

We hunted that ground a lot on the 70's too. Killed more than a few grouse in there too, believe it or not. But in later years, some of that ground became almost unhuntable bc/ of that #@*&%# MFR!! OUCH!

We hunted that ground a lot on the 70's too. Killed more than a few grouse in there too, believe it or not. But in later years, some of that ground became almost unhuntable bc/ of that #@*&%# MFR!! OUCH!
[/quote]


Hunted it 3 times a week on weekdays, few hunters and a lot of stocked Pheasant and quail. I miss those days and that dog.

Small world, because my best ever Springer came out of Pottersville, NJ which I think is close to Chester. One of Larry McQueen's Dogs

Yes, a very Small World indeed, battue.

One of my gunning partners raised several litters of ESS. He always bred his females to one of Larry McQueen's stud dogs. I went with him to the McQueen kennels several times. He was a top shelf breeder/trainers/ handler of both ESS and ECS,. Pottersville is a just stones throw South of Chester, down in Bedminister Co (home of the new Summer White House)

I picked up the pup at his kennel, then the suggestion was passed that we should have a nip in celebration. A couple hours, and a few nips later, his wife went and got the shotgun he used to shoot driven Grouse in Scotland. I finally got on my way. That is when Duffy decided to take a dump on the front seat. It was a memorable beginning.

LOL!!!

Yea, well he did it while I was inside a gas station asking directions. And he did it on the drivers side, which I didn't look for when I got back in the car.

I wasn't laughing at the time, nor when I was in the BR with my pants off washing them the best I could. LOL!!!!

Looks great Grouser, sounds like you got a fantastic deal. I've got two 20ga lightening models still new in the boxes, one being from the year I was born. Haven't brought myself to shoot them yet. Saving them to give to my two boys as high school grad gifts. I've also got a 12ga Superposed from '58 that I do use from time to time. Beautiful guns IMHO.

The older Brownings are fine guns, but the steel in the barrels is soft by steel shot standards. My favorite scattergun is a 1962 edition of a Superposed Pigeon Grade twenty, IC/M. It will never discharge steel while I am alive.

If I ate a steady diet of birds taken with shotguns, I might view lead differently, but game birds are an occasional treat for me, therefore I use hard lead shot for dove and quail and copper or nickel plated shot for pheasant.

Best,

Jack