I own a pair of older Wingmasters (50's and 70's models) and have been contemplating getting a newer one in 20 gauge to tone things down a bit. What is the quality like on the newer models? Same as the oldies or have they cheapened them up?

Also thought about an auto but have zero experience with them. Some models like the Franchi AL are super lightweight. My 50's wingmaster uses 1oz 4 shot loads and the gun comes in around 7lbs or just under. How much am I loosing (or gaining depending on how you look at it) by going to a 20?

Tom, I don't have any brand new 870's I suppose the last ones I bought would have been more than 10 years ago.. I bought a 28 ga. Love it, but haven't used it much the last few years.. Just prior to that I bought two 870 20ga. For my wife and I... My wife used hers a bit, and I used some.. The quality on that issue was very good.. The 20's were on a smaller frame and very nice to handle.. You might look at one made before 2006, that is when I bought mine.. I am not a real 20 ga. fan... I much prefer a 12, but those little 20's carry very nicely..

My newest wingmaster left the factory around November 2012. While not as smooth cycling as my older 66 and 83 wing masters it may be because the newest one has only been fired about 100 times and the older two are likely in the thousands. The bluing is very good and the wood finish on the 2012 is even better. I'd not hesitate to add a 20 gauge to the cabinet if I wanted one.

The worst Wingmaster out there is better than most of the other brands. The smoothest pump made today is the Browning BPS

My step father had a BPS that I used occassionally, loved that gun but is a bit heavier than a wingmaster.

Sounds like the wingmaster quality has held, still not sure I am better off with a 20 gauge vs light 12 loads. Shots at grouse are fewer and fewer it seems, with my skills I need as much shot in the air as possible 😀

If looking at auto's, I have a Beretta 390 12 gauge. It is lighter, and kicks a lot less than my 12 gauge 870's.
390 is now obsolete, but there is a comparable model available, or buy used.

New Wingmasters are nice. Every bit the quality of the old ones. I have never seen a bad one

Not sure which Grouse you are hunting, but for Ruffed you are losing nothing with a Rem870 20. The 20 is going to weigh approximately 3/4 pounds less, carry easier. point quicker.

If you can, carry both around for 30minutes or so at the ready. The answer will quickly appear.

I have several BPSs and agree they are very well-made. They are more than a bit heavier than an 870!

I have a newish (last 10 years or so) 12 and 20. They are both nice and the 12 has been flawless, spent all last duck season with me. The bolt can be a pain to remove from the 20 though you can YouTube some helpful videos. It has to be just right on my 20 for the assembly to come out.

I don't see the quality of any Remington matching that of those made a good many years ago. That being said, the 870 Wingmaster was/is so far ahead of the competition, that I would certainly go that route. The new lightweight twenties are made on the small frame. Older 20s were made on the 16 ga chassis. Nice for dove or duck, but the LW is nicer for carry hunting. If a new one needs smoothing, put a bit of valve grinding compound in the action and work it a few hundred times. Then give it a good clean out. Problem solved.

Best,

Jack

I think the old 20s were made on a 12 gauge frame....along with the 16s. I have one of the newer 20s (about 10 years old) and a 12 made in the days of chrome lifters and impressed checkering. They are both quality shotguns, the 12 is a bit smoother...but it's been fired a lot more. The newer Wingmaster is no slouch. I replaced the shell follower with an aftermarket aluminum follower, just cause I didn't like the plastic. With it had a shiny, reflective chrome lifter . But it's well built and pretty darn smooth.

Assuming you find no fault with your older guns why not add an old 20?
All my Wingmasters are plain barrel guns from the 50s with corn-cob forends and fixed choke barrels. They are very light, swing easily, and are a pleasure to carry. The modern WMs I've handled seem clumsy in comparison. Personally, I've no reason to buy a newly manufactured WM when there are old ones available at a similar price. Regarding choke tubes, I own several barrels for each gun and simply use the barrel I believe best will suit my days hunting. Might not be ideal for everyone, but it certainly works for me.

I do the same currently with fixed choke barrels, the downside to an older 20 is as others have mentioned, they are built on a full size frame. If going to a 20, lighter weight is a prime reason.

I might add that sometimes you find the older large frame 20s at a steal. SIL wanted a twenty for dove. I found him a large frame 20 choked Modified in a pawn shop. Lightly used and well cared for. Price was $150 out the door, last year.

Jack

I have an older 1979, 20 gauge lightweight and it is definitely not on a 12 gauge frame. Smaller and lighter than my 12 gauge Wingmaster.
Unless your looking for nicer wood and shiny blue steel, there's nothing wrong with the Express series. I have both and they shoot the same.

Thankfully, this is incorrect. 12s and 20s had their own respective frame sizes. The 16 gauge 870 guns were built on 12 gauge frames. Likely this is where many get confused on the issue.

Until 1977 the 20 (and 16) gauge 870 and 1100 gunswere built on the 12 ga frame. One can readily see the step down to the smaller bore when looking where the barrel exits the receiver. My first 870 was such a model in 20 ga which can now be a bear to find barrels for as it is 40 years since they were last made and not many were produced. The larger frame 20s were very popular on the skeet field at one time and still make for a light recoiling un for beginners or high volume shooting.

After 1977 Reminton began using the smaller frame for the 20 ga but there were two primary versions, the LT and the LW, which had different barrel hangers making them not interchangeable. I'm not sure on the order but I think the LT came first with the LW replacing it a few years later. The second version is what is currently available though the letter designation was dropped.

I think the current 870s are still well made though they may not be quite as well fitted as decades back. Then again, little else is as the cost would be prohibitive. For what is available new today I think one will not surpass a new Wingmaster in quality.

For consideration: Ithaca still makes the 37 like they used to and maybe better.

True, but the retail for about $900 bucks. I've looked at them and they are nice. The new current production models weigh about a pound to a pound and a half more than the old model Ithaca pump guns. I've got a original 1959 model 37 that's as light as a feather.

You can buy a new model 870 Wingmaster for considerably less money. And Remington has a $50 cash rebate on all if their 870 model shotguns right now.

Correct, but there are used ones out there reasonably priced. A 16ga Ithaca FWT?
For LW, their 28ga can't be beat if one were willing to go 28. They got it right for LW and balance.

Just noticed. You already have one.

I think Remington had lightweight in mind when they introduced this one... Super fast dove and quail gun!



...plus they're so much fun to tinker with!










DMc ; )

I'm am pretty sure all Wingmasters 20 gauge and up were on the same frame size (12 gauge) till the late 1970s. I'd be willing to bet a beer on it . Not sure what year the 28s and .410s came out on their own smaller frame.

Looks like I owe you a beer, 300_savage. You are indeed correct.

If you ever get to Glendive, MT, PM me and we will go have one. We can talk about Wingmasters and other good shotguns .

I certainly will!

True this^^^. I have a 1975 870 WM in 20ga. It is indeed built on the 12 ga frame. I have two barrel's for it, both have that "step down" you refer to. Both barrels are fixed chokes. Mod and I/C. Friggin' great gun.

As Sherman Potter said in an episode of MASH, old Wingmasters put the "ooooo" in smooth