I'm still on my quest to reduce recoil due to blood thinners necessary for medical conditions and attendant bruising from recoil from heavy target loads. Refresher, my shotgun battery is :
20 ga Browning Superposed PIgeon Grade IC/M
20 ga Binelli Montefeltro chokes
12 ga Beretta SP IV chokes
12 ga Browning A-5, jap barrel w/chokes
12 ga Remington 870 chokes
12 ga Winchester M12 Cutts w IC tube only
.410 bore Winchester M42 Mod

The last couple of years I have used the 410 on opening day, close to limit, great fun, but short range, unfortunately the 20s and the 12s bruise me unmercifully and second or third day, the 410 is too limited in range. I have considered getting a 28 ga, but at eighty, I'm not comfortable spending 1-2K for another shotgun to use five to ten days per year. Choosing my loads more carefully seems to be the practical answer. Loads and questions:
20 ga 7/8 @ 1200--will it reset the inertia triggers on the Superposed and will it work the action on the Binelli?
12 ga AA 24gm@1300+ --will these reset the trigger on the SP ?
12 ga 1oz @ 1200--- same ?

I would be happy to buy a box or two, but no one Here seems to stock them and I would need to order a flat of each.

Thanks,

Jack

They should work OK.. In fact, the SP should reset even at a bit under 1200..

Used to shoot the pink wads in my Beretta 686 12 gauge for skeet. Thinking it was 7/8 ounce actually but for sure no more than an ounce. Worked great.

If they have pads, I'd be shooting either the 870 or the M-12. I'd load up either 7/8 oz or 1 oz and I would push them ~1150 FPS. With the lower velocity the paterrns should tighten appreciably and you can push the recoil way, way down with the right powder.

The 20 ga load in question is a standa d target load so there should be no problem using it in any of the 20 ga guns mentioned. There are some factory 7/8 oz loads running in the 1150 fps range that should work just as well. Remington and one of the foreign manufacturers used to make a 3/4 oz load but I am not sure they are still around. I load a 3/4 oz load in the 20 ga for sporting clays and it sets the triggers on my Citori with tubes so the Broadway should work just as well.

The 12 ga loads should function fine in all your guns too, except maybe for the 24 gram load in the A-5. There are even more options with the 12 ga as there are 1 oz loads in the 1150-1180 fps range by all the major manufacturers. Winchester and a couple others make an even lighter subsonic load that will have no problem working in a pump and most O/U guns. They even work in some gas operated semiautos such as the Beretta 390 and 391 with at least a 28" barrel or the proper Cole spring.

Thanks. The 870 is padded. 7/8 would work. I don't think the 2" shells will function in repeaters. I do have an old 600
Mec that I have not used in almost forever. I suppose charge bars are still available.

Also thanks for the info on the SP. a flat for it would never be wasted. Someone in the family can use them. ,

Jack

I'd be dusting off that MEC and buying a pound of 800x to start with. I don't know if they have bars or adapters to run low velocity 800x loads of 7/8 oz, but I do know of a press that can do anything, those included.

I prefer factory at the low use volume, but reloading is an option. Who knows, if the problem is managed, I might enjoy clays again.

Thanks,

Jack

Unless you're really careful, that 800X is like trying to put 2" drainfield rock down a very small funnel.. Use another powder; a small-grained item that'll meter reliably.. For light loads in a 12 ga I use WST and a #28 bushing..

I would suggest one of the newer Citoris 725's in 28 gauge. They are built on a 20 gauge frame and have the weight of the 20 with the light recoil of a 28. A 28 gauge load is usually 3/4 of an ounce. Select something in the 1150-1200 fps range. the 725 has mechanical triggers so reset is not an issue, even with very light loads.

The 28 is a death ray on quail. The biggest disadvantage of a 28 is that the shells are pricey.

As an alternative, consider an ISIS or similar recoil reducer added to your existing stock.

In the 12 gauge, I routinely load just under 18 gr/Clays with 7/8 oz of shot. Gray Claybuster was, STS hulls, Win 209 primers. Velocity is about 1240 fps, wonderfully soft recoil.

In your Superposed, I like to load 3/4 oz of shot, 15.5 gr/Unique, Claybuster 34 wad, AA hull, Win 209 primer. About 1200 fps. Very light recoil. If this load will not switch the to the second barrel on firing the first, a number of good gunsmiths can adjust it.

Thanks, lots of ways to skin the cat. I finally found a vendor that says he has a soft 20 load, 7/8 oz @ about 1000fps in whatever quantity I want. Will try them in both 20s for function.

One kicker, my Superposed PG, a '63 issue w/unique wood, is not padded and in good conscience, it will not be, as a pad would knock a large amount from the value. May be time to consider the Past system.

I am trying to avoid purchasing another gun, but if worse comes, I have a lot of rifles collecting dust that could go for trade on a 28 of whatever configuration.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack, looking at your gun list I'm not sure if your Browning Auto-5 is a Magnum Twelve or a Light Twelve. If it's a Light Twelve you may want to try this load; factory Rio 12 GA 2-3/4" Target Load, 7/8 oz. of #9 lead, catalog #TLSK249. They function perfectly in my Japanese Light Twelve using the light load ring setting; I can shoot 100 rounds of clays without causing my neck to hurt (damaged vertebra - trying to put off fusion surgery). I wouldn't want to carry the gun bird hunting all afternoon, but it is great for stationary hunting (duck blind or dove blind) or riding around the clays range in a golf cart. I buy these loads mail order for $44.99/case from Outdoor Limited in High Point NC. I also put a Pachmayr Clays Pad on my Light Twelve - helps tremendously. Good luck in finding the right combination.

Odessa, thanks for the suggestion. My Light 12 is Belgium but I'm using a Jap barrel W/choke tubes. I have had this gun since '63 and understand the recoil system very well. One can change feeding/ejection easily by changing the amount of friction by going dry, thin lube, or heavier oil. Past the opening day or two, I'm not too fond of 9s, but they may also package it in 8 or 7.5. After some 55 years, I'm comfortable with the A-5. As noted, it got a little heavier over the years, but in dove and duck blinds, we get along fine.

A few minutes ago, I purchased a box of 20 ga AA 7/8 oz of #8 @ 980 fps. These loads are advertised as "low recoil, low noise." If they set the triggers on the Superposed and/or function in the Binelli, we may be home free. The old Superposed fits me like a custom and I have the same cast, drop, and length adjusted into the Benelli and the 870 so that I can switch from one to another and never miss a beat.

I can live without the 12s, provided one of the twenties functions with the above or similar loads. Will let you know in a few days.

Thanks,

Jack

To my earlier suggestion of 7/8 oz 12 gauge loads, I use this load in my Light Twelve A-5. I got this tip, and spring, from Art’s Gunshop (a/the top Browning outfit in the U.S.): use a worn recoil spring for these loads. Never a hitch, light recoil, surprising effectiveness. When going to heavier loads, be sure to put a full strength spring back in.

GF1,I know Art by telephone from his days at the Browning repair facility at Arnold. He does know Brownings and he knows how to give customer service. He once before went out on his own. During this time I sent another Superposed in for a re work. It was screwed up beyond pitiful. I wrote the president of Browning. Meanwhile, they hired Art Back. He called me saying that he had my letter in hand. One aboration was that they had cut down a 12 ga stock to fit a 20. He doubted that could be done. Art asked me to ship the gun back to his attention. A few days later, my phone rang. Art told me that he was holding my gun. All I said was "and?" He replied that the SOB was exactly as I had described it. We talked another time or two. When I got the gun back, it looked like new.

BTW, my springs are all 55 y.o. I always tried to tune mine to where the load being used just does work. Also have a fairly recent Decelerator on it. S-I-L says, "The Boss is serious when he breaks out the old Browning." I have chased Bob White and Blue Quail many miles with the A-5. Looking back, I wish that I had taken a Sweet Sixteen. Anyway, some way we are going to get this problem solved, even if I do have to break out the MEC.

Best,

Jack

You could also load the 20 with 3/4 oz. of shot and simulate a 28 gauge. It will trip your Brownings trigger. I am working up a load myself for skeet to be used in my SKB over and under skeet gun.

Fiocchi is supposed to make a 1-ounce 1150fps load that is very manageable recoil wise. If it were me and I had a loader I would......7/8 oz (24gram) shot at about 1,200 fps driven by Clays powder. They publish data for these loads. I've found both the pink Winchester wad and the Federal 12SO wad to work well with either AA or Remington STS hulls. 7 1/2 or 8 shot should work well and if the recoil @ 1,200 is too much drop the powder charge by 1/2 grain or so.
Good Luck,
Rick

I had a model 12 with a cutts too.]

Almost no recoil.

You can still find tubes for them on line.

Thats my choice

Hh Mike S, Academy, of all places, has the load I mentioned above, 20 ga 7/8 AA @ 980. Bought a box to try. Lots of things interfering with my usual goof off retirement, but I'm going to the farms/ranches Friday to pick up grandchildren. I'm packing the Superposed and the Montefeltro to give them a shakedown even if just on European Collared Dove (no closed season) to see if they function in either of the guns. Those loads are a bit more shot and a little less velocity than the 28 High brass. Cross your fingers.

Those shells are a bit expensive @ almost $8 per box, but we are not talking high volume shooting. I will be happy to use a flat of them per year. Even at twice that, it beats buying another gun for upwards of a grand and 28s are not cheap either, plus other than the attendant bruising, I am happy with both pieces. As said before, I could pad the Benelli with a softer product, but a saw will never touch the Browning as long as I am upright.

Jack

I started shooting skeet almost 20 years ago. This was my first experience shooting many rounds at once. Not liking all the recoil, I switched from 12ga to 20ga then 28ga. As the 20 & 28 guns are lighter, I did not find any relief. So I went back to 12ga and began reloading wimpy loads by using lower powder recipes, which helped some. These lower powder loads also would not cycle my A-5 (especially in winter) and do not recock the hammer on my Superposed. So I have to use factory shells for my first shot on the doubles. It wasn't until I began loading 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz recipes, along with a heavier 12ga gun (Ruger red label sporting clays) that I finally felt some relief. Using #9 shot still gives me plenty of pellets to break the skeet birds. -Jim

I'm in the same position as JT402. I had bypass surgery in 2012 after three heart attacks. I'm on blood thinners and bruise easily. I load 3/4 ounce target ammo for my 20 gauge Beretta over/under and 7/8 ounce ammo for my 12 gauge guns. I sold my 28 gauge over/under as I no longer have a dog and don't bird hunt anymore. I use a Beretta A400 XCel with kick-off stock for most of my target shooting. It reduces the recoil to the point where I can even shoot 3 dram equivalent 1-1/8 ounce loads. I still mainly shoot 1 ounce loads in that gun. If you reload, try loading 3/4 ounce 20 gauge loads.

OK, gentlemen. I tested the 20 ga low recoil, low noise load, AA 7/8 oz at 980 this morning. It functioned just fine by loading and ejecting from the Benelli Montefeltro and it functioned as well in the old Browning Superposed with no failures to set the second trigger pull. I shot several rounds in rapid succession and there are no bruise marks on my shoulder. One thing I did notice was that the shell cases were made with compression bases. I suspect they have been warehoused for a while. At least for now, my problem seems to be solved. The compression hull worries me that the supply is not endless......As long as this ammo is available, i see no reason to buy a 28 gauge.

Best Wishes to all,

Jack

My next quest is for the 24 gram load for the 12 Beretta O/U. I suspect they will also work out just fine. The velocity difference may screw up my "lead" as imprinted in my pea brain.

Jack

My next quest is for the 24 gram load for the 12 Beretta O/U. I suspect they will also work out just fine. The velocity difference may screw up my "lead" as imprinted in my pea brain.

Jack

At my club today while helping run the trap league shoot I noticed one guy was experiencing significantly less recoil than everyone else in his group. They were all shooting over/unders.
He told me to check out Soft Touch Custom Stocks and said it was the best thing for his shooting. Since I hate recoil too, I am going to check it out.
Has anyone here had any experience with this or similar products?

I have borrowed guns with similar devices and can say they do work. My main objections are the weight they add, the possibility of the screws loosening, and the cost. They can be used when shooting from a gun down position but seem to be at their best when shooting a pre-mounted gun.

Besides the recoil reduction, the best feature I thought to be the adjustability of the stock. I could adjust the stock as I gained or lost weight or if the thickness of outerwear changed significantly. The negative of this is the more often one changes settings, the easier the settings could change. For "set and forget" I feel a stock fitting is better and much cheaper way to go.

I considered something like this for my wife but having the stock fitted to her ended up to be the better option. Many have used these devices with good results so it really is up to the individual as only they know their needs and wants.

Sorry that others share my problem, but it is nice to know that there are solutions. We are thinking of downsizing and room to reload does not always exist in "compact housing." I live in a full size place now, and still I warehouse some guns with the daughters. One has a giant work bench, suitable for reloading. Problem is a 2 1/2 hour drive one way.......

Best to all,

Jack

On the factory 20 ga/ 3/4 oz issue, Fiocchi makes a good one. They are so light they will not cycle any gas gun I’ve seen, but are great in a double. Just over 1100 fps.

Report on the Saturday dove shoot. I carried only one gun for the opener, a 20 Benilli Montefeltro 20 ga. For ammo, I shot the Winchester AA Low Recoil Low Noise rated at 980 fps with 7/8 oz of #8 shot. A modified choke in the Benilli. I shot about twenty rounds wearing a shooting shirt with one extra layer of heavy twill for a shoulder patch. No failure to operate the inertia action.

The combo killed the birds well and best of all I have not even the slightest bruise on my shoulder. Because of commitments at church, I came home Saturday evening, skipping the three day scheduled event.

The ammo is a little expensive, about $8, but I will be fortunate to get in more than three more hunts this season.

Best,

Jack