It’s almost that time just curious to what y’all are slingin at em!

Winchester AA Heavy Target Loads 7.5 shot size

I always shoot the 7.5 but kinda thinkin of tryin sum 6s ?

Winny AA's

Something throwing 3/4-1 oz of 7.5 or 8 shot. This is usually my reloads but I am not picky and will shoot factory without hesitation. Then it is more likely to be 1 1/8 oz of 7/8 oz as those loads are cheaper and most common.

I usually shoot 1 1/8 of 7 1/2's.. Our dove shooting isn't great but that was the load I used in Az. one winter when the shooting was fantastic..

As a side note, some where I have an article by Maj. Charles Askins, the Col.'s father.. He was a real shotgunner, he mentioned one fall he had a spare case of 6's and used them on doves.... The worked just fine...

Estate 1 oz 8s

In 12ga Remington Nitro 27 Handicap Trap load of 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2 shot.

In 20ga Remington Sure Shot 1oz 8 shot.

In 28ga Winchester AA 3/4oz. 8 shot.

6's

Same. Do get a (brief) chuckle out of the booming duck loads that invariably show up.

Not flying back this year; ya’ll have a blast, though.

Thanks for the feed back guys countin down the days just got a new 11-87 to try this year instead of the ol a5

Going forward I hope the Kent Steel Dove 20 gauge 2 3/4" 7/8 oz #6 work out as we have to use non toxic from now on. Bought some 12 gauge also 2 3/4" 1 oz #6

I shoot a 16 Gauge for dove and quail; normally shoot a 1 oz. or 1-1/8 oz. lead load - Estate, Fiochie, and Federal is what I have in stock - use them all interchangeably.

If you find doves to be insufficiently challenging, by all means shoot 6's. You are going to have to tighten up on choke to get the same pattern density at the same range as, say, 8's. I find that more pellets= more doves. When I was reloading, I used 9's. Doesn't take much to bring a dove down if you are on target. Same thought process as shooting 6 (lead) vs. 4 (again, in terms of lead shot) at a wood duck vs. a mallard. I don't need more of a challenge than an ounce of 7-1/2's or 8's gives me; an ounce of 6's is about 225 pellets per ounce vs. 410 pellets for 8's. If forced to use steel, then 6's might be necessary, otherwise no thanks.

I’ve found if the range is 30 yards plus less fly off that you know you hit with 6’s than the smaller sizes. As the distance increases 6’s will give you more dead in the air birds than the smaller. Inside 30, the extra no of shot with the smaller sizes makes no difference. They both work if you point well.

Shot enough of them to know without a doubt, 6’s give more clean kills than the smaller, if they have some distance. However, if one sits under a tree and shoots them coming in for a landing, the smaller are fine.

Cheap Federal 12ga 2 3/4” 1 1/8oz of 7.5s. It’s what I shoot at clays all summer.

20 gauge: Win AA Super Sporting. 7/8oz of 7.5s at 1300 FPS. This is a badass dove and quail load.

12 gauge: 3 dram 1oz or 1 1/8oz of 7.5s.

I prefer target loads over game loads because target loads have harder shot, and usually a good quality 1 piece wad. I'm not brand picky with my 12 gauge loads, Rem Nitro27s, Win AAs, Federal target loads, Fiocchi, whatever. I like loads that go 1200+ FPS.

I like 7.5s for doves, I've never bit into a piece of shot since I switched from 8s to 7.5s, and have no problem killing birds at 40+ yards. I also get less feather poof fly offs with 7.5s. I've never had a need for 6s for doves.

Hard to beat the good target loads you mentioned. Expensive, and most are not willing to pay that much. Aguila is making a target load that seems to be their equal, along with being more reasonably priced, if you know where to purchase them. Aquila shot has tested to be as hard as the target loads you mentioned.

In fact Aguila, out of Mexico is probably the primary source of the majority of lead shot being used today.

WW Superhandicap or Sporting Clays 7.5s in 12 ga (cycle my 1100 magnum fine).
When I ran a 20 OU or pump, liked the WW Expert 1 oz 7.5

F&W area mandates non toxic. Been running Rem steel 6 and 7's in a 12.

I've used those loads and similar ones with both #6 and 7 shot on dove plus more on birds running from snipe and woodcock to ruffed grouse with good success. The 7 acted like #8 lead shot and was a little light on grouse in my opinion but I have killed a lot of grouse with 8s over the years. I prefer the 6s as I would be more likely to use this type of load on quail or ruffed grouse but I would not be too concerned with 7s on dove.

As an aside, I found the smaller steel shot to pattern more like similar sized lead shot. In other words, a choke giving IC patterns with lead shot gave similar patterns with steel. #6 steel was slightly tighter and would typically pattern closer to Light Modified than IC out of the IC choke.

I shoot 100% my reloads except 410. Mostly I shoot a 28 ga with 3/4 ounce magnum #8. My 20 and 16 ga dove load is 1 ounce 7.5 shot.
In the 410, I use factory load 8 or 8.5 shot.

You seem to be saying that beyond 30 yards, 6's are needed for clean kills and that pattern density is unaffected by distance. I would simply say my observation has been that 8's will reliably give clean kills well beyond 30 yards and that ounce for ounce and choke for choke, you will run out of pattern with 6's before you run out of lethality with 8's. To put it in your terms, if one sits under a power line and shoots them coming in for a landing 50 yards away, then a turkey choke with 6's is fine.

Shoot whatever you like, of course, and for late season birds 6's may make a bit more sense, but only if you tighten the choke to compensate for the thinner pattern. Otherwise, the birds you hit might be dead in the air but you'll likely have some clean misses that flew right through the pattern.

16 ga, 1 oz, 7.5 shot, works like a charm as long as I do my job as the shooter

What you think I seem to be saying isn’t what I said.

I disagree with your thinking that 8’s will give more clean kills well beyond 30 yards. What is “well” beyond? 35-40-45?

Of course I will shoot what I like.

If you think I meant shooting them coming in for a landing was at 50 yards out, then you were not paying attention. Or making something up to fit your opinion. In fact, I find little enthusiasm for shooting them coming in for a landing at any time or distance.

Every time, I will take a clean miss with 6’s at distance over a feathered cripple with your supposedly tighter pattern of 8”s. Every time. At "well" beyond-again depending on what "well" entails-the heavier shot is also holding its pattern better, than the lighter shot that is slowing down faster and bleeding off to the sides.

And finally, I am quite comfortable shooting a Mod choke for all Dove shooting, close or “well” beyond, and early or late season. I also could live with full. Since you are guessing, what do you think I “seem” to be saying or implying? It is not a hard question, but there are a couple correct answers.

Addition: Pattern density interests me little at most ranges doves are shot. Pointing well does. So you don't have to seemingly guess what I mean: More fail in wing shooting by not pointing well, than having the right choke or pattern density. Chokes are mostly highly overrated, other than at the extreme ends.

At least we are in "full" agreement on this (pun intended).

I have killed doves cleanly at 40 yards with 8's: "well beyond 30 yards". If it has been done even once, and it has, then there is no reason it cannot be done every time since I know the pellets are there. Therefore, when it doesn't happen, it is shooter failure. Beyond 40, I can't say much because I don't knowingly shoot beyond this. Certainly 6's retain more energy downrange so if you happen to hit a dove in an increasingly sketchy pattern, it might fall right out.

Of course one has to point the gun right and of course that is the biggest problem anyone has in wing shooting. But that's not what the thread is about.

No, I don't think you are shooting them coming in for a landing at 50 yards out. Do you think I'm shooting them from under the tree they are landing in? I was returning what I took to be hyperbole with more hyperbole. Sheesh.

Neither of us wants to shoot doves coming in for a landing at any range and neither of us wants to cripple birds. I choose to discipline myself to pass up shots where 7-1/2's or 8's aren't sufficient, using a light modified choke.

I generally prefer 1 1/8 of 7 1/2's although early season I am not opposed to 1 oz of 8's.

When we go to our Eurasian spot, its either 6's or straight 7's. Those buggers can soak up some shot.

With an equally good point, there is a reason more Doves will be crippled at 40 with 7.5’s and 8’s than 6’s. And the fact it has been done once, doesn’t give a valid reason it can be done every time, or as consistently. And if most of us would walk off our 40 yard+ shots we would find out more often than not, we overestimated.

Personally, I’ve gotten more consistent kills at all ranges when I use 6’s and plan to continue doing so.

I’ll correct the last sentence. At anything over 30, I’ll take 6’s. Since I don’t know what the next chance will bring, it’s 6’s.

There aren't enough sixes in a dove load to reach the distance where sixes beat 7-1/2s. 7-1/2s will do about all a dove load will do. Pick your shots and put it on the head. Any kind of going away at range is just stupidity; not pellet size.

Who said anything about shooting going away Birds at extended range? Cherry picking your shots so you can almost guarantee head shots is either great shooting or close range work, but more like cherry picking, in which case 9's may be the shot of choice.

It just keeps gets better,

Steel shot 7’s...

Super fast, and with the right chokes it does wonderful.

Shooting steel shot at doves is like dating your sister, who are you going to brag to about getting some ?

I love fast 8s, but just got up from the bench loading fast bismuth #7s in 16 ga due to Moonbeam's new ammo restrictions.

We'll see.

Posted this before, but if 5’s have enough pattern to kill Pigeons at 70, then 6’s have more than enough for Doves. He has a website, perhaps some can tell him he is wrong.

To the OP, I recently did a fair amount of patterning with my new to me 16 gauge using 8, 7.5 ,and 6 shot. I patterned multiple chokes at ranges from 20-50 yards.

When it was all said and done, the 6 shot patterned more evenly at all ranges through all of the chokes. Yes I was putting more pellet holes in the target with the 7.5 and 8 shot simply because of the higher pellet count per ounce. However, the 6 shot produced less dove size holes overall in the targets. I will note the 7.5's produced good patterns as well, but not quite as good as the 6's.

I have never thrown 6 shot at a dove, but may try some this season particularly if it is windy. During my 30 seasons of dove hunting I have come to prefer 7.5's over 8's.

As with all shotgunning, the only way not to guess is to pattern your gun.

I'll wager he's not using a modified or even a normal full choke. As I said before, a turkey choke....he is certainly getting a pattern that a turkey hunter would be pleased with. Also can't tell how many ounces of shot he's shooting (perhaps I missed that) but I bet it's more than one ounce and I bet it's hardened shot as well; a premium shell and load. All I've said from the beginning is that you're going to have to tighten up the choke to kill them reliably beyond 40 yards with 6's and you've done nothing but confirm that. I'll add that you can also shoot heavier loads, but I for one don't want to shoot pheasant loads at doves.

Not many of us, certainly not I, can shoot well enough to even attempt the shots that Digweed does. If you can, and if you've got the load and the choke for it, have at it. But most of us mortals are better off with IC or Mod and staying within 40 yards with 7-1/2's or 8's. Sixes aren't immune from producing cripples and the vital area of a dove is fairly small.



This is simply you re-asserting your opinion, with which I have dared to differ. Doesn't make it so. My opinion is more birds are crippled due to shooting them too far than due to using a too-small shot size, and that doesn't make it so either. Neither of us can factually refute one another; we have our opinions and they differ. That's all.



If true, then the 40 yard shot becomes 35, making 7-1/2's or 8's all the more effective.

On state land here you have to use Steel... I just shoot them out of the Briley waterfoul chokes and they pile up doves like no one’s business.


That reminds me - I do have a couple of the sweet 16 chokes I need to sell (new ones that don’t come with the gun).

I'm sure your dentist appreciates the business.

No it doesn’t make them “more”effective. Something you continue to miss. 6’s will always cause more damage, by penetrating more. Which is why with the equally good point, more cripples will result at distance with smaller shot. Even more so with a bad point up close. See how that works.

I mentioned that at anything over 30, I prefer 6’s. I could get by with the smaller at 30 and under, but as mentioned that is always not the case.

Your “observation was, you will run out of pattern with 6’s before you run out of lethality with 8s” Which is BS, because it ignores the extra penetration and energy of heavier shot.
“Ounce for ounce, choke for choke”, again your words,

Of course Digeeed is using the best combination. Which is one of the reasons he is using 5’s and not 7.5 or 8’s 🙄


Additionally: Belatedly, to boost your opinion, you insert more birds are crippled at long range. Which while it may be true, has nothing to do with the best shot size, and everything to do with the shooters skill level, as proven by the video. What’s next?

When it comes to which size shot will cause the most damage, the bigger always wins. In this case facts rule and opinion is little more than opinion.

The smaller works just fine up close. Past 30, I prefer to hit them harder and harder means less Birds flying off crippled.

40 yards, 30" circle, one ounce, IC= 50% gives you 205 pellets of 8's. F=70%, giving you 158 pellets of 6's. I have more shot at 40 with IC 8's than you do with F 6's. And that's not even choke for choke. I understand the difference in penetration, and at some point it comes into play, but not at 40 and in. The vitals of a dove are small and they don't get bigger with distance. But the spread between shot pellets certainly does.



And your assertion is baseless because it ignores that you have run out of pattern density "at distance" (whatever that is). But since by your own admission you are fine with having birds fly through your pattern when you have pointed the gun correctly, I guess it doesn't matter. But a 6 that doesn't hit a vital area can cripple too and a thin pattern makes a hit in a vital spot less, not more, likely. Inside 40, I agree, doesn't matter, either shot size, same choke, same result. Beyond 40, better have a tighter choke and a closer-to-perfect point.

If I was shooting at 70 yards plus as Digweed is, yes, I would use bigger shot because at those distances downrange energy is a factor. But I would have to be choked down to a fare-thee-well to make it work. And I will add that we don't know how many birds Digweed cripples at those ranges either. Those shots can be left on the cutting room floor.

Regardless of shot size and choke, you don't run out of pattern, at the ranges most of us kill Doves.You are hung up on choke, and as mentioned, with the exception of the extremes, choke means little when one points well, and Birds in motion are flying thru an elongated moving shot stream.

A two dimensional stationary pattern board picture, has limited application to two objects passing thru each other in a time lapse three dimensional world. Give some thought to what that means. A good point either kills them now, or slows them down. Which means there is more time for the following shot to chew on them. Flying thru a hole in a moving shot stream will usually only happen if you are working with the backend of the string.


However, the heavier always causes more damage-close and far-than the lighter. Wither it is in the vitals or the extra snaps a wing bone.

The range most of us kill doves is under 40 yards, so where is the problem here? If you are still saying that from 30-40 yards, 8's cripple more than sixes, we simply disagree. I'm only hung up on choke because at some point it does begin to matter. Once we start talking about ranges in excess of 40 yards I think pattern density (and therefore choke) becomes important, whether you are talking about 2 dimensions or 3. A two dimensional pattern board is incomplete of course, but it is not without instruction to those who will receive it.

It appears that you now have decided that snapping a wing bone is fine and doesn't constitute crippling. The goal posts are moving about as fast as the doves fly. Yes a 6 pellet will break a wing at a greater range than an 8 will. Are you happy now?


I'm out. I'm going to shoot 1 ounce of 4's with no choke at all (since it doesn't matter) this season, and I'm not limiting myself to 40 yards anymore. I'll show that Digweed fella a thing or two!

If you want to live in lala land and not accept snapping a wing bone is part of wing shooting, then i wonder just how much you have actually done. Along with your limited knowledge of shot strings, it only gives it credence.

Anyway, I have almost always had a decent Dog to most often end the nasty stuff rather quickly.

For now out is a good place, in that you have no cards left to play.

A condescending attitude does not become you. It's funny, before this little disagreement I had always enjoyed your posts and really love the dogs you have. But in this matter you have shown yourself to be an egotist who thinks his opinions are above challenge. Twisting my words to mean what you want them to mean appears to be your stock in trade.

Out obviously means something different in your world.

Now if you find the truth condescending, I’m at a loss for a reply, but thanks for the comments on the Dogs. They are far from great, but good enough for me.

So are the same loads for doves enough for pidgeon

Well, you saw him shoot pigeons out far, and this time they are close. Stop frame when they show the shell box and it will be the same load of number 5’s. However, I would think at these ranges, he would do just as well with 7.5 or 8’s. Perhaps he is hedging his bets if he has to stretch it out.

If it works on Pigeons, it will do so on Doves. So according to someone who has shot a lot of Pigeons the answer is yes.

I was the one who first pointed out that sixes aren't immune to crippling, which you finally acknowledge. Nice try, pal.



Yeah, I figured when I said "I'm out" you'd start strutting like a bantam rooster and you didn't disappoint.

Trotting out George Digweed, playing the "oh, you must not have much experience with doves" card (when you know nothing about me), and misrepresenting what I have said , do nothing to bolster your case. Once again, just because you proclaim something to be the truth doesn't make it so. You have an opinion and I have mine. For something to be characterized as truth, it has to be proven; and neither of us can prove anything. I can admit that, but you can't. So be it.

Feel free to carry on with your bromance with George.

OoooKAY.

Now who played the condescending card with this comment




Now, you want to go to the BA attitude, then have at it. At best it is funny....

As far as Digweed goes, he is someone who has proven himself with his shotgun abilities and knowledge. An expert if you will, and one known around the world. Perhaps you noticed he used 5's-which I didn't rub in your face-for both close and far. He probably knows more than all of us who post here re shotgunning, and I'll take my clues from the likes of him before you or most others.


Now you put me in my place, I hope you feel better for it. I'm out. Now watch how that is done also....

Kent steel #7’s out of a 20ga this year on opening day. Going to be a warm one again this year.
Good luck gentlemen

Pattern your gun. Doves are not difficult to kill, they are difficult to hit.

I shoot AA skeet loads #9 shot from a IC / Mod over under. Late in the season when the birds are flying high and fast I switch to the higher velocity AA trap loads with #8 shot.