Smooth is fast, Fast is smooth!

He has done that more than a time or two. Is that a BPS he is shooting?

My Ex-wife shot a pump(870) for Trap Doubles and Skeet, unless you watched close you couldn't see the her pump it. Her dad taught her, he shot a Model 31 Skeet and I've seen him take three Drake Mallards out of a flock jump shooting. He had a dedicated skeet and trap 31's, she just changed barrels for the different games(no tubes then)

I think so. I would say he has had it smoothed up a bit. Another guy I know from Ohio shoots an 870 and well. Won the Ohio State SC Championship 4-5 times. His has been slicked up more than a little.

Haha....... Another guy I know from Ohio shoots an 870 and well. Ummm I would say a little better then Well!

Yes and he has a "Fear This" sticker on it. He rarely went to a big shoot. But did awhile back, and many of the top guns where there and some of them thought it was funny. When they got the chance to see him shoot, one of them said..."Well, I fear it now." He came in second that day....

He sure does know how to work a pump.

Damn! That is a thing of beauty when your that good 👍......Hb

What’s that guy from OH’s name? I remember that guy.

Bill Mayer

That’s the guy

I'm not really understanding here. Doesn't everyone work a pump about like that? That just looks normal to me. And no, I'm not kidding nor trying to be pompous. It just seems like anyone who has shot a lot of doves or ducks with a pump runs it that quick.

I don’t know, a BPS is pretty slick right out of the box, noticeably smoother than most other pumps.

Find an old Herb Parsons video for some real pump action.

The Gould Brothers....

Precisely !!!

Dude is butter smooth...………..zero wasted motion. Fun to watch.

He also is in Master Class.

That comes as a bit of no surprise to me.

I believe I could walk the course for no other reason but to watch him shoot and take notes.

He just moved up recently. Obviously a good shot, but there are more than a few in MC that can't compete against the big guns at the top of the list.

Pretty much agree. The shooter demonstrates good technique but it is nothing thousands of pump gun users do not show on ranges and fields all over every year. I suspect the overwhelming majority on this site can operate a pump gun at least as well as shown in the video.

With some practice both of you are correct. However, I've seen some decent shotgun shooters pick up a pump and look much like the monkey and the football.

As far as thousands on the fields, I frequent more than a few fields with more than a few participants. Coming across a pump gun shooter, outside of the few dedicated side pump gun events, which few participate in, is rare. Very rare. That would also include those that only go there for fun and not competition.

To the overwhelming majority on this site a pump gun is a foreign object. They can learn to use one well, but most never will obtain his level of use.



In addition: He can't shoot a pump gun in Fitasc events. Not allowed. Stupid rule, made by other countries who make the Fitasc rules, but it is the existing rule.

They only see the pump Battue, you and I and maybe a few others see the whole mechanics. The hold point, the swing, the break point, and pump, Then the dismount and acquiring the target on report and following through the shot. I think a lot of people THINK or want to BELIEVE they are that smooth, when in reality they are not. If they were there would be a lot more Mayers around. If I am not mistaken he has won more state championships than any other and Ohio isn't lacking in the talent department.

I was just about to add the skill factor. Most here with dedicated practice, commitment and a considerable out pouring of dollars could be as good. However, 99.999% would be doing it with an O/U or SA. His accomplishment and doing it with a pump adds another level of commitment.

Look hard and find the clays in the air. Those targets were not easy. Some had speed, transition, high to low and some were not in your face. As you said, I doubt if most picked up on the fine points. The good shooters always make it look easy.😀

Dan dethroned Bill.

Joe Zeitler here in Pa has won 7.

I thought Bill had 8?

I saw Herb Parsons perform twice in my youth and I haven't seen anything to compare yet.
Herb throws seven clays by hand and shoots each individually with a M12.

He did the shooting for Jimmy Stewart in Winchester 73 by shooting targets in the air with a
M71 348.

Shooting his ejected cartridge from a pump gun was common with him.

He would throw washers up and shoot through the hole with a 22.

Some are available on youtube

MCH: Not sure how many for Bill, but a bunch.

Vern: I’ve watched the Parsons videos and posted one on here a couple times. His 7 clays in the air record had been broken, but I think with a Winchester SA.

Correct on the washers also.

I have friends, one his Son, who watched Rudy Etchen shoot 5 Ducks with an 870 plugged for 3. However, he had extras between the fingers of his left hand that he fed into the port smoothly without missing a beat.
Said it sounded like he had 5 in the tube.

You really need to get out more to "social" or "league" sporting clays, skeet, and even trap events where the more typical non-registered shooters are. The presence of pump guns are indeed rare in registered competition but at the local league level they make up a large percentage of shooters. At least they do throughout the central part of the nation and many other parts I've been to.

And when one adds in the number of shooters who learned to shoot on game in the field, the number of people who can properly use a pump gun goes up higher. Pumps are very common for hunting and even the poor shots can get off rounds rather quickly.

That someone is a good shooter does not automatically make them proficient in all the tools used. I've also seen very experienced shooters be given an action type they weren't familiar with for the first time and make absolute fools of themselves. Give that person a few pointers on the proper operation of the tool and some time to familiarize themselves with it and they won't look the fool.

I noticed the overall shooting too but the video caption and further discussion appeared to reference the operation of the pump gun rather than the ability of the shooter to read and break the target hence I tried to not derail the thread.

Different locations, different worlds. However, I get out to most of the various different events, social and serious, sporting, trap, skeet, etc and know fairly well what goes on around here.

Disagree, in that I've watch highly experienced shooters pick up a different action and have yet to see one make a fool of themself. Watched Kruger once pick up a light Beretta 303, he shot a heavy Krieghoff, and immediately start breaking a stiff LtoR 50 yard crosser. However, have watched people like myself pick up the same type and fall on their azzzz, and quickly when it was different than what they are used to. Most assuredly different levels of experience.

We all have our experiences and none of them are necessarily right or wrong. Just different

Not bragging but I'm sure I shot faster than that a few times rabbit hunting today on some narrow shooting lanes. And hit the rabbit. When a rabbit crosses a 10 ft. wide lane he don't give no notice and he's moving pretty fast.

Just for clarification. A Rabbit crossed a 10foot wide window on a full run and you killed him with the second shot inside that window?

Sure did , been doing it for years. I did a lot of missing for years but with practice I've gotten pretty good, I kill most of the rabbits any given day. We had a young fellow that shot most of a box of shells today and collected a little bit of fur on one but no rabbit. Rabbit hunting with beagles is a tradition down here in Louisiana and starts right after deer season.

Great shooting.

We hunt them with Beagles up here also. Couple acquaintances hunt them until they each kill 100.

Places to hunt for us are getting shorter every few years though , deer leases are becoming dog unfriendly even after the deer season more and more.

Back in the sixties, I shot a lot of skeet, and used a set of Model 12 skeet guns and a model 42 410. Many of the shooters who shot pumps a lot were very, very fast. The man in the video is fast but, back then, would not have been considered exceptional. Many of the live pigeon shooters who shot 30 yards rise (2 shots) with pumps were lightning fast as well.

Happy BDay MCH. Good month to start out!!!!

Yes, things were much different on the shotgun fields 50+ years ago. 🤔

Federal and Winchester Papers were also the big thang....You don't see them much anymore either....

LOL Yes, gas operated shotguns were beginning to be seen.The old long recoil auto shotguns were seldom seen, because we had to wait for them to cycle.

That guy is pretty darn fast. I grew up shooting a Model 12 win, and later moved to an 870. I used to shoot skeet with the 870. I would get some looks from the guys shooting $10,000 Kreigoffs. I can tell you, if you shoot alot it is not that hard. I can still run one faster than most would believe. Not uncommon to shoot 3 to 4 times at grouse. If you hunt grouse you know that generally thats about all you get. The load your using makes a pretty big difference in your recovery speed.

Ruffed Grouse?

Thank you Buddy!

Guess I must be missing something... IMHO that was not even close to being 'fast'... We had a guy around here on our skeet range who was so fast on the second shot that I doubt there was more than 1/10 second between shot #1 and #2.. I'd never seen anyone that fast before with a pump..

He may not be the fastest, and the video may have overrated the concept. I’ve watched Mayer often and would say for pure quick, he beats this guy. He also is a better shot. Nick Berry just never saw him.

Then there is fast, and great and fast. I would bet on Mayer against any here who claimed to be faster, better, or know someone they think may be. 😉

Unfortunately, Herb Parsons and Tom Knapp are dead but the guy who took over for Tom is probably faster than Mayer with a pump gun. I'll grant these guys aren't as accomplished at reading targets as Mayer but for speed I'm pretty sure any of them as well as numerous others will do as well or better.

Even Mayer seemed to recognize this in himself as I recall he carried a Beretta O/U on his cart to use for certain presentations. I'm not downplaying Mayer's shooting skill overall but that he is not some rare maestro using a pump gun.

The video was mislabeled no doubt, and for myself anyway admitted i thought that was the case. But if fast is where it is at, then whomever others think is faster, then so be it. Subjective opinion and little more.

Info. Mayer most often used the 870 with a 34 inch Hastings barrel for most of his stations. (May have even been longer.) He used the Beretta O/U for quick presentations in the woods. Was the 870 barrel a tight fixed and the O/U gave him the option of more open chokes? I'll ask him the next time we cross paths.

In addition, the game has changed since Bill ruled Ohio and a few other places. The targets are more technical than when he was winning big. The presentations are more complex and target setters are more into illusions. Digweed won a World shoot a couple years ago in Fla and said they were the toughest targets he has ever shot. Coming from England, that says something. Shooters were getting zero's and 1's on more than a few stations. Some just walked off the course and quit. Combined with the fact age is creeping up on him, Bill no longer is the top gun he once was.

However, I looked at the video in its whole, and found appreciation for an individual who uses a pump shotgun well, in a game dominated by easer to use semi-autos and O/U's. Those who can only appreciate how fast one may be missed the bigger picture.

However, I'll still take Mayer over any other mentioned when it comes to using a pump and marking up XXXXX's on the card.


Addition: Perhaps it wasn't mislabeled. "World's fastest sporting clay shooter with a pump." Mentioned nothing about the worlds fastest trick shot. I still think Mayer is faster than this guy. but again it is subjective and proves nothing. Nor is he a trick shot he seems being judged against.

As far as being rare, name me another who has won 7 or 8 State Sporting Clay Championships with a pump?

Rudy was fast....How fast....Trick shot fast, maybe, maybe not.... But, definitely XXXXX fast....

"Rudy’s pet Amateur Trap Association (ATA) event was Doubles. He will remembered in
history as forever being the first person to ever break 100 straight in Doubles at the Grand
American Tournament. He did this in 1950 with a brand new Remington model 870 pump action
shotgun. Uniquely 32 years later he did this again at the Louisiana State Shoot with the same pump
gun. Rudy used this shotgun for the remainder of his trap career. He was known as “Mr Pumpgun”. "

As far as being rare, name me another who has won 7 or 8 State Sporting Clay Championships with a pump? NOBODY!


I believe Mark Helmick (spelling maybe wrong) tried to make a run using a pump a while back. He was good in the Pump events but never could keep up in the main events!

Mark beat me once in a pump-gun shoot-off at a State shoot. But we had the crowds attention for more than a little period of time. 😀

Rudy Etchen was the best pump gunner this country has ever seen.....

No doubt Rudy was great at Trap, but hardly the best this country has ever seen. Trap is more a mental game than shooting. Seeing back then there were no sporting clays courses it would be really hard to even consider him for the best this country has ever seen. Skeet takes more shooting ability than Trap. I would guess to say he could shoot skeet, how well would be a wild guess. But his game was Trap.

Rudy shot a Purdey SxS for boxed Birds and a Parker SxS for thrown. (Colombraire sp?)
He won the World Championship, and a lot of money, in both.

His Father, Fred, made him stay on station one and run a flat straight before he could move to station 2. And then the same to 3-4-5. And then it started over on 1.

He was no stranger on a skeet field either:

https://www.joeletchenguns.com/remembering-mr-870


https://www.joeletchenguns.com/shotgunning-mastery-rudy-etchens-records

Last paragraph is interesting.

No doubt he was a great shot Battue but the best this country has ever seen is a little far reaching. You know well no F.I.T.A.S.C. and no Sporting clays back then. Yes Box Birds are very tough. The new breed has more time, more money, more resources than ever before. Not only the level of competition but the age at which they are starting is ridiculous. Another thing to take into account now is that everyone that is good is trying to find that niche that they can excel at and be the ONE.

It isn't just happening in shotgun sports it is happening across the boards in all sports.

I remember when the sporting world said we will never see another like of Micheal Jordan! Hmmm well we all know how that played out.

The best keep raising the standard...the best is yet to come....

Rudy had all the advantages at a young age as any kid today....A Father who was one of the best of his day and unlimited shells with first class instruction....

Joel said Rudy told him he would help him in every way, he could shoot as much as he wanted, but he wouldn't be as demanding as Fred was with him....

The best keep raising the standard...the best is yet to come....

No Doubt!

Rudy had all the advantages at a young age as any kid today....A Father who was one of the best of his day and unlimited shells with first class instruction....

True but the resources these kids have today and into the future are light years ahead of what Rudy had available.

Well,

Few will excel at all of the games like Rudy, and none yet have. Mataresse gave it a go at International Bunker. Rudy excelled at American trap, Olympic trap, skeet and international combined with live Birds. He was a known legend of his time. Not only in shooting circles, like most of the best of today, but he was known and respected by the business leaders of his day. And not only those of the shooting industry. Along with some of the most famous movie stars of his time. The best is always relative, however in the shooting sports, I know of none that have yet to rise to the heights of Rudy Etchen.

Little reason to believe he wouldn't have done the same in Sporting.

Hell, I bet he could have even hung with Flave....

Is Anthony done trying the Bunker? Man he spent so much on that!

No doubt that Rudy was a great shooter.

Don't know, but people pay to shoot his bunker and he makes money teaching off of it....As far as money, It will end up paying for itself....

For sure. I have paid to shoot it. My point isn't that he lost money, just that he put so much into it to just walk away. He is still plenty young enough to chase it.

Figured that. His third child is either here or due soon. Said he would like to hit the SC circuit hard this year.

Has two new videos out....

Let her eat!
He just may be left handed or at least ambidextrous and right eye dominant in shooting that pump! Smooth!