Going on a .338wm so need tough and reliable. Will be used in harsh conditions. Will dial on occasion but not regularly. Still want reliable tracking and RTZ. Capped turrets are ok. Regular plex reticle is a must.

Not a 3-12 but it’s close at 2-12...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...2x42-ahmr2-ffp-ir-mil-214105-is-in-stock

With those stipulations I would go nightforce SHV 3-10 with forceplex and not worry about the loss on the top end.

I’ll be watching this thread for the opinions. I’ve been using a 338wm for almost all of my hunting for the last 14 years. I started with an Leupold VXII1.75-6 and then went to a Leupold VXIII 2.5-8 about a year later. It’s been on and off ever since with out issue. I don’t dial for hunting distance. I’ll rarely even shoot out to 250 yds. The only time I even use the higher magnification is at the range.

Cool build you are going into! Keep us posted.

I have a Schmidt & Bender 3-12x42 Precision Hunter that has been on a custom Smokeless muzzleloader for the last 7 years or so and has several hundred rounds through it. The recoil is pretty substantial and I was nervous about the scope holding up. I do dial with it and it continues to track perfectly. I bought it when Europtic had a too good to pass up sale on them and the scope has thoroughly impressed me. My other pick would be the Nightforce SHV that was recommended above.

https://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-precision-hunter-3-12x42-p3-mildot-rifle-scope.aspx

The regular Plex reticle is somewhat limiting. But, with it being a factor, I'd give another vote for the 3-10 shv NF. I have 1 on a .338 that has killed 3 scopes, and it's still tracking and rtz after about 200 rounds, which is, admittedly, a small sample size. I also have dialed on it and other SHV's quite a bit without a hiccup. 10x is plenty for anything you'd point a .338 at, and if you want to use any of the subtensions on a SFP Duplex for additional aiming points and wind holds, I personally don't care to be constrained to be over 10x anyway. Too much X with a SFP can be a liability on game.

If you'd like to expand your reticle choice, You could try to find a used Bushnell LRHS 3-12. More purpose built for long range, it has an FFP that is usable throughout the X range.

Why would anyone want to saddle themselves with a plex reticle if they plan on dialling, if only 'occasionally'?

I have a 3-12x44 Zeiss Conquest. Never had it on a .338 but it’s been perfect for 3 years. Dialed it to 1k on a .308 and then verified at 100. Came right back. I would not hesitate to put it on any .338 I have owned or shot.

Find yourself a used Bushnell LRTS 3-12. They pop up from time to time. I have three. Love them all.

This ain’t my first rodeo. I’ve tried many times and just can’t get on board with a busy reticle. I don’t mind some basic wind holds like a Swaro 4w, but that’s it. I want nothing on the vertical. 35+ years of hunting with a plex crosshair and it’s what I like. End of story.

The SHV 3-10 is what I’ve also come up with as the best compromise, but my eyes at the range like a little more than 10x. In the field it’s enough. And yes I am aware of the limitations with fov and SFP at max range.

Has anyone torture tested a Zeiss V4? I have one on a .270, not much of a test tho but it’s been flawless. I also have a V6 on a 7mag that I love, but no V6 in the size I want.

the old dog/new tricks thing is true......

IME, 2x one way or the other isn't going to make or break your ability to precisely place shots. I've shot some ofy best groups at 500 with SWFA 6X and 3-9. What I've found most important is the size of the target used. I try different sized dots and diamonds for each reticle until I find sizes that make any movement or change of position highly visible.

Good point on the target.

Another knock on the SHV is that the tube is so darn short. Going on a long action I am sure to need a rail, which being a stubborn traditionalist, is a bit hard to swallow.

Mine wears a vx3i and has had zero issues. Before that is was a zeiss conquest and before that was a bushnell elite. None lost zero and ive owned this gun for a long time and put many rounds down range

I put over 1000 miles on mules/horses with a browning A bolt 7 Mag with a Leupold 4x12 AO, Vari X-II Rifle was carried in a scabbard, and the scabbard looked like it had been though the Indian Wars.

The older Burris Signature(made in USA) 3x12's are battle tanks, and they made a Posi-Loc that was bomb proof.

We rode ridges, deer were bedded down on the sunny side of the opposing ridge. Mules always spotted the deer in their beds as they flicked an ear. Shots were 300-450 as a rule, and my 7 mag was sighted in at 1" high at 200, and I knew the holder over out to 500. No deer ever took a step. Elk were shorter range shots.

I have them mounted on long actions without and special considerations. Warne makes some nice extended bases that will get the job done while preserving a more traditional look.

As well as Leupold dual dovetail rings on this long action Remington 700. You could also use a reverse front base if you wanted to move the scope back some.

I’ve had 2 scopes on my .338wm in the 30 years that I’ve owned it. For the first half of it’s life it wore a Simmons Aetec since that’s what I could afford back then. I put around 500 rounds through that combo over 15+ years and it NEVER missed a beat. It always shot sub MOA and never needed adjustment. One night (early morning) after a big party and band in the barn I was walking to the truck to head to the bunkhouse and I slipped on the ice and landed hard on the scope. I put a big dent in the objective and figured it was toast. The next morning I took it to the “range” on my buds ranch to confirm that I ruined it. First shot dead center bullseye and the next 3 rounds printed a large ragged hole. I was completely amazed that NOTHING was knocked out of whack by that abuse. I hunted that afternoon and shot my elk, killing it with one shot. I didn’t like the dent in the scope so I replaced it with a Leupold VX-II which is still sitting on that rifle. It too has never missed a beat, never needed to be re-zeroed or faltered in anyway but it’s only had maybe 250 rounds and thousands of miles on it by truck, airplanes, hiking, horseback, ATV and snowmachine. While I have many more scopes that are much more expensive I ain’t fixing something that ain’t broke so it’ll keep getting used. That rifle doesn’t get dialed so that isn’t a concern, holding zero under all conditions is however and that combo has done it in spades for the last decade+.

A guy that knew me well bought the Aetec off me and put it on his .338wm. He died unexpectedly a few years ago and I don’t know what happened to the scope but as of his passing I know that he had total faith in a dented Aetec and his .338.

Thanks for those pics of the SHV mounted. Very helpful!

SDHNTR, I think those are medium height rings, I did have to grind a little off the top of the back of the rear base for the power ring to clear. Of course I could have used high rings, but I wanted the scope mounted as low as possible.

a 3-12 has become my favorite all around scope power range for general use. enough on the low high end for load development and low enough on the low end for quick shots on moving animals. the scopes are also generally sized in a manner than isn't too big as well. I have a zeiss v4 in 3-12, its a great scope so far. honestly I can't say how durable it is. I suspect its going to hold up very well. I asked one of the big whig guys about the v4 line and told them they should offer it with the zero stop turret like what is offered on the 4-16 model. he said they don't have any plans of doing that and that its unlikely. I have static tested the 3-12 and found about 1% tracking error, if my memory serves. the 3-12 has covered turrets and isn't meant to be a dialing scope. 1% tracking error is not going to be noticed by anyone and is within spec and very much within passing range IMO. I use the reticle to hold off on this scope and rifle combo as I don't intend to shoot it past 450 ish for example I tested an elite 4200 2 weeks ago 4-16, again capped turrets. error was about 6%. I don't intend to dial that scope either, its repeatable and is fine for the use I will use it for.

if you really like the 3-12 power range, I would suggest huskemaw. I have one that has been bounced around for 3 seasons. the scope tracks perfectly. still will dial up and hit where its supposed to hit. its on the rifle I hunt with the most. The downside is huskemaw might one day not be in business, if you need scope repair you are f'd. The other downside is based on that downside they are expensive if you pay retail. I suggest NOT paying retail, LOL. there are ways of doing that. The other downside is the show its associated with and the name of the scope is hokey and your friends might make fun of you. aside from all that, its one hell of a scope, I would buy another all day long for the rifle I use it on.

the other scope you might be overlooking is the v4 4-16 model. I own 2 of them now. both track absolutely perfectly, (and YES I check!!) zero stop turret, covered windage. If I knew they were totally durable I would sell my two NXS nightforce scopes and replace them with v4's they are optically the best scopes I have.

the LRHS is probably one of the most durable, but I personally dislike FFP in a 3-12 power range. the 4-18 model handles the reticle much better.

You know, based on specs, there is a lot to like on those Huskemaw scopes. But that dang show is just so bad. I’ve always been turned off of them because of that show!

I hear ya, I actually put tape over the logo on the parallax knob, LOL. otherwise its an awesome scope. built in the same factory that makes the very best japanese optics out there. bushnell elite tactical, v4, I also think LOW optical makes the parts for nightforce that they assemble in the US. I think I paid $700 for mine, at that price its very tuff to beat.

Good to know. Thanks.

As for the SHV, is there still a non illuminated version? I don’t see one on NF’s website but seems I remember one existing at one point.

You remember correctly.
They discontinued it a couple of years ago.

Lame!

If it has to be a regular plex then NF SHV 3-10 is the closest. They dial well if you don't mind removing the turret cap.

The LRHS 3-12 is a solid option on a FFP with dial but it isn't a plain plex. It's a very "huntable" FFP reticle from near to far. It is much more of a "dialing" scope.

I sighted in a S&B Klassic 3-12 yesterday evening. Adjustments were perfect on sight in. Very nice scope. I've had good results from several Klassic 6x42's and I expect the same from the 3-12. S&B doesn't have a plex but they have some plainer reticles like the A7. I really like their P3 (basic mil-dot) reticle...not to busy, 4 posts, wind/elevation holds. I believe the current production models of the Klassic 3-12 all come with FFP reticles....different people may prefer or not prefer that. I really like it with the P3 reticle.

https://schmidtundbender.de/en/products/hunting/3-12x42-klassik.html

https://schmidtundbender.de/en/products/hunting/3-12x50-klassik.html

Not 3X12 but the Tract 3X15 is an exceptional scope and at the price an extraordinary value.

Find a Sightron Big Sky 3-12 and you’ll have all you need

I think it was a good move to stop offering the parallax adjustment option. On a 10x scope for big game, it's kind of superfluous. The lit versions are very well done, and I'd choose it over the parallax adjustment.

However, if you just have to have a duplex reticle with parallax adjustment, I have a 3-10 SHV so configured that I'd think of parting with. Shoot me a PM if interested.

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 with IHR reticle would work well. If you want more magnification, the NXS 3-15 will do the job, but is adding more weight if that matters. On a .338, the extra weight might tame it a bit.

Unicorn Bushy LRTSi or newly release LRSH2 (with a slight bump in power range).

NF SHV

Zeiss V4 (although capped wind/ele in the 3-12x range)

I have an older 3-10 SHV, with the parallax adjustment. It’s a nice scope, but on a long action you’ll really be locked into one position unless you get fancy with the rings/mounts. It tracks well and the glass is nice; the feel of the turret is really not great; mushy feeling clicks, rough patches when turning it.... I almost wonder if mine should go back to the mothership, as I’ve not heard others complain about this... anyway I’ve moved it around on several rifles and it’s done great. It’s currently residing in an Aero Precision mount on my semi-heavy AR15 and I’m looking forward to dialing the rifle out there a ways just for grins. I wouldn’t personally put it on my .338 WM; the eye relief seems a bit short for my tastes for that. YMMV.

I came into the Zeiss V4’s via these 1-4x30’s they offered for a while. They went on closeout when they disco’d them, at a sick price for a Jap scope with the feature set and of that high quality, so I snagged a couple. They live on AR’s as well. But they were so nice I have now bought two more V4’s, a 4-16x44 and a 4-16x50. They can be had as “demo’s” for a fairly great price (for what you get). The 44mm version, I got with the duplex and it’s very easy to see in low light. For the 50mm I got the simplest of the fancy reticles, with illumination; I forget the number, basically a simple crosshair with some hashes (not a dang xmas tree with tiny wee numbers and words that I can’t read anyway, lol)...... I plan on buying one more of these before this buying fever subsides. They are a really nice rifle sight, from what I can tell so far. The lack of reloading supplies is preventing me from really wringing them out, but I can say, zeroing them at the range, playing around there, and doing a little long range shooting at steel they’ve behaved like my Nightforce scopes. They go where you dial them, then come back to zero. The dude at the place I buy them said they are made in the same factory as NF SHV’s with “the same stuff” internally. Can’t say yay or nay to that, but it does appear to be the case. The turret is far superior to the SHV turret setup, and I like it better than the turret on my big NF NXS, too. It’s a really slick design.

It’s a shame they don’t put the fancy turret on the 3-12. I can say a couple things there. First, it’s the same design as the capped turret on the older Conquests, just upsized for a 30mm tube. I have used the capped turret on multiple older Conquests with great results; it’s actually a good setup, for what it is. Workable. And second, any turret is basically a glorified coin turning a slot, like the old days with scopes. What I mean by that is, most of the precision, or lack of, is in the internals- primarily the erectors. If the 3-12 has the same high quality internals as the other V4’s, and why wouldn’t it, but just with a simpler “coin”’turning them, it could be a real sleeper.

The older Meopta-built Conquests were optically brilliant. These new V4’s are a notch above that. Really nice.

A Zeiss Conquest failed on one of my light .308’s in less than 100 rounds. They are a long way from “bomb proof.”

Anything man made can fail. I can fully vouch for Zeiss as their scopes have been bullet proof for me. I had one on a 375 ruger and a 416 ruger and shot it a bunch. Also had one on light weight 375 rum and it lived and never gave me an issue.

For those of you who are running the latest iteration of 3-12 or so Zeiss Conquests: Are you regularly dialing with them?

They don't really offer a reticle configuration that interests me at this time, but maybe they will at some point?

As to eye relief on the SHV being enough for a 338 - I have one on a 7 lbs 338 that I've shot prone, and I've never had even the faintest worry about scope brow. Also have one mounted on a light Tikka in 300 win mag, and no concerns there either. They have a forgiving eye box, so mounting them, even without a lot of room to position them, is really not an issue.

Of course, you can eliminate a lot of issues with a rail, but they often result in scopes with objectives under 50mm being higher than need be. On actions where the scope mount screw holes are aligned with each other and with the barrel, I've had nothing but great experiences with using 2 piece Warne and Burris 2 piece XTR bases. The Burris are multi slot to accommodate whatever scope positioning you need, and they are pic compatible so you have more options in rings, including the use of Burris Signature XTR rings to add inclination to the set up without adding too much hight via a pitched rail.

I have the Nightforce “unitized” ultralight mount on my heavy 7 WSM (which has a NF NSX 5-25 on it) and I like it. It’s like Talleys connected by a rail, sorta, but much cleaner and simpler. I really am not into rails on “hunting“ rifles; way too tacticool for me.

May not be relevant to anyone reading but I’ll mention it in case- if your M700 has a one-piece PTG bolt, you’ll need medium Talleys to clear the ocular of a V4. That’s how I ended up with the 4-16x50mm V4; if I was going mediums anyway, might as well max out the scope objective. That rifle, a GAP Extreme Hunter clone, has a Manners SL stock that works great with mediums anyway so no biggie.... Also FWIW, the 4-16x50 V4 is optically superior to the 44mm version beyond just being quite a bit brighter in dank grey light. It’s better at full mag, better eye box.

As to durability, only time will tell, but they are showing me enough that I’m bullish on them for now. I can’t remember a scope I’ve owned that was rock solid in terms of tracking and RTZ and repeating, that later conked out.... I mean, I own or have owned a half-dozen of the Meopta Conquests and run/ran them for many rounds on hard kickers, including my .338 which has had two different models on it. No issues, and I’d be really surprised if the Jap V4’s were LESS bombproof. But, I’ve been surprised before.

Side note, the Meopta Conquest 3-9x40 is the best general purpose hunting scope I’ve ever used on long action hard-kickers. Miles of eye relief, solid mechanics, great optically in all ways.

Anyway, back to the V4’s, if someone can point me at some H1000 and 7828, I’d be thrilled to give them a major workout. I have bullets, brass, steel plates, and primers galore but I’m down to my last couple pounds of those powders and I’m not gonna burn it up just to stress-test a scope.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ all day, every day. I have 3 of them & they just work as advertised; about as bulletproof as you're going to find, IMO.

But, I have to admit, I've used several of the older Leupold VX III & Vari-X III's 2.5-8's on 338's with a lot of horseback miles & backs of trucks with never an issue.

I can't say how the new ones are but I just decided to give a Mark 3 HD 3-9 a whirl to see how it works, but not on a 338.

MM

Thanks some good info here...

Agreed.

Primo thread!

Thanks to all who have contributed.

Here's a LRTSi-3-12x44mm on Arfcom for $750. All 'round pretty good scopes.


https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipme...e-w-Box-Accessories-750-OBO/163-2190276/

Two more data points... the “demo” V4 4-16x50 can be had for $799 with illumination, a truly wonderful elevation turret with a killer zero stop, and capped windage. And 2nd, it will clear in Talley Low’s on Sporter profile M700’s (unless you have the one-piece PTG bolt as I mentioned) as well as a Kimber 8400 (the WSM version).

These truly are the good old days of optics; the bang for buck can be phenomenal, and I don’t doubt the other scopes mentioned here are killer. Straight shootin’!

Any chance anyone here has a pic of a 3-10 SHV mounted on a long action M70?

MontanaMan or Dirtfarmer may have. I have 4 rifles with SHV's, but they are higher magnification. Excellent scopes for the money. They compare very well with my higher priced NSX's..

I have a 3-15 LHT on my 8# 340 Weatherby. Holding up great.

This rifle has " killed" a dozen scopes including 2 Vari-X III 3.5-10s

I had a SHV 3-10 mounted on a Dakota 76 in 338 WM with Talley mounts. I had to get a long front base to get it to fit.

I'm seeing a trend in this thread towards LOW Japan built 3-12s. My 3-12x44 bushy lrhs claimed another bull last week. I wish they'd make another run of them with an even smaller windage turret.

Bb

IMHO, and IME, the words “Made in Japan” are a great, great thing to see on any mechanical and/or optical device.

I just ordered another 4-16x50 V4. “I think I’m done now”.... lol. 2021 was the year of the rifle scope upgrade, apparently. I invested in (5) of them.

This thread made me rethink how I was shuffling scopes around, however. I pulled the 3-10 SHV off the AR, and as serendipity would have it I had a set of M700 30mm Talley Low’s around (from when I discovered the PTG bolt clearance issue) so I pulled the old Leup 2.5-8 off my ultralight 7-08 Mountain Rifle and put the SHV on there. Great match for the rifle. I put the 4-16x44 V4 on the heavy AR. My intent is to eventually rebuild that upper (I built it) as a 6.5 Grendel, when there’s components around, and that scope will be great for that. In the meantime I’ll keep flinging 69-gn Sierra MK’s into the void.

Invested? That sounds like some Schmitt ol’ Pudding Head would say. 3.5 trillion=0

You can do a lot worse than sticking to LOW sourced scopes.

It is too bad they discontinued the 3-12 Bushie. Was a lot of quality for the money, and I like the FFP G2H reticle for all around big game hunting. If anything, I think it was maybe just a bit ahead of it's time. It is a reliable dialing scope of sensible magnification range with a highly usable FFP, hunting oriented reticle. Seems as more and more people are getting equiped for longer range shooting, they are figuring out the virtues of those attributes.

I agree. I have three of them and can’t see getting rid of them anytime soon.

Tract 3X15 is the best deal out there

Yes, invested. They are an investment in my shooting future, from which I aspire to achieve a significant ROI, especially relative to “lesser” scopes.

What mechanically-accurate scopes do is reduce a major and confounding variable in the whole “precision shooting equation“ to close to nil. In other words, removing (or tremendously minimizing) mechanical error at the point of adjustment allows the other errors, both hardware and software, to be seen, so you can work on them.

I see this all the time with what I do for a living. I recently bought a high-precision small lathe (Hardinge HLV-H) that eliminates runout at the spindle to an amazing degree. With that removed, it’s much easier to see and chase down other forms of error that exist in the “lathe equation”.

So yes, I see it as an investment and will stick with that terminology.

[u][/u][b][/b]

Over 200 threads on Trump and Russian collusion. You were proven to be a moronic lying sack of schit. You fled when caught in all of your lies. lmao

Are you still on your fake disability scamming tax payers to support your lazy arse?



"For the record, collusion WAS shown to have occurred by the midterms. But I'm feeling really generous today and as I said, I want to give y'all something to hang your pinhats on"