Emailed a nightforce dealer about a old stock scope, to see if he had stock. He didn’t. Tried to steer me to march scopes. He “claims” they are better than nightforce both optically and mechanically.
March scopes are excellent scope with the widest zoom range in the industry. Other may have caught up with the zoom range but March was the first with a 10 times zoom. They were first built for the competition market. I don't think that you would be disappointed at all.
Emailed a nightforce dealer about a old stock scope, to see if he had stock. He didn’t. Tried to steer me to march scopes. He “claims” they are better than nightforce both optically and mechanically.
I never heard of them.....
I looked through one of their benchrest scopes that was set at 50X and it was an amazing revelation - I had no idea that a scope could be that crisp and clear at that power. I don't know about how well they are mechanically but quite a few benchrest shooters are using them so they must be pretty good. But they are expensive.
Only complaint I’ve heard is tight eyebox, which come with the territory on high zoomX. I’d expect them to be near perfect in all regards with that price tag, are they? Perfect tracking, RTZ, zero retention after impact, etc? Where’s Form when ya need him?
Also, how long have they been around? Relatively new right? Will they be around if you need them 10 yrs from now after dropping a mortgage payment to buy one?
They're unbelievably nice in all regards. They also make long range scopes that don't weigh as much as a lightweight rifle. For a long range hunting rifle in the sub 10# range, they're as good a scope as money can buy.
March scopes are excellent scope with the widest zoom range in the industry. Other may have caught up with the zoom range but March was the first with a 10 times zoom. They were first built for the competition market. I don't think that you would be disappointed at all.
Just to follow up on this the first March scopes were for the competition market, the short range benchrest shooters. they were a fixed 45X
As promised, here is a longer answer. March riflescopes are a brand of scopes designed and manufactured by the Japanese company called Deon Optical Design corporation. It is celebrating its 15th year right now and they have built and moved into a new factory building. Their official website is www.marchscopes.com. You can read their story as the site is replete with information.
They have designed and built various models over this time, and you can see the evolution of the various designs over that time frame. Their current line-up is very impressive. From best in class LPVOs, as exemplified by the March 1-10X24 with dual reticle to the March-X 8-80X56 (Second Focal Plane) and the March Genesis 6-60X56 (First Focal Plane with 118mil adjustmenr range), they have the most innovative designs, with the top-notch manufacturing to deliver these products.
I have learned a great deal about their products, the company, and its people over the last 6 years. They have invited me to attend SHOT show in their booth in 2018-2020. There was no SHOT show in 2021 and this year, they only have a static display because of travel restrictions from Japan. They have already asked me to be in their booth in 2023. I do not work for Deon/March. I do not sell scopes. I am just a HUGE fan of their products, I am a competitive shooter, and I know a little bit about optics.
March scopes were the first ones anywhere to feature ED-glass in riflescopes. They started that almost from the beginning of their history. In fact, all March scopes have ED glass elements except for a few models. The LPVOs with 24mm objectives have non-ED glass. The others that do not have ED glass, instead have Super-ED glass, and again, March is the first anywhere to have Super-ED glass and currently still the only ones. Before you pooh-pooh ED and Super-ED glass as "marketing fluff," don't. Just don't, it's a real thing. I'm happy to discuss it, but in another post.
The March 1.5-15X42 that you asked about is an innovative design with a huge objective lens in a 1.5X base magnification. I have one mounted on a competition-grade AR-15. I love the range of magnification, as an all-around optic. When I got mine about 18 months ago, I noticed that the objective lens group appeared to be a new design. It certainly has a little heft to it. I have since discovered that my suspicions were correct and learned a bit about the reasons for the new design. At the low end of magnifications, this is one impressive riflescope.
March scopes are all hand-made in Japan by Deon, now at that new factory. The bodies are made from a solid ingot of aluminum (not the 6061 or 7075 junk, better stuff,) and machined down to the proper shape. No extrusion, no multi-piece. Everything in the scope is top quality all-Japanese parts. (There is not China crap in there anywhere.) The scope bodies are filled with argon, not nitrogen, for longer life. Everything about these scopes is designed and built for long life.
The warranty is 10 years, because of Japanese law, but they will support you beyond that time. I have several March scopes and have had March for almost 10 years now. I have never had a problem with any of them.
March scopes are usually built to order because they have so many options and features, but some dealers have some of the most popular models in stock. It usually takes two months to get the exact model you want with the specific features (reticle, knobs) that you want.
If you have specific questions about a certain model, post it here. I'm sure someone can answer.
Anyone have to send one back? Some dealers end the relationship at sale. If your scope is defective it’s on you to send it to Japan.
These are three on my short list US Optics FDN 10x 1.8-10x42 Nightforce NSX 2.5-10x42 March compact 1.5-10x42
I think you mean a March 1.5-15X42. If you do not now have a dealer, I would contact Don Carter at longrangesupply.com for excellent service.
Yes I transposed 10 for 15. I should had just copy/pasted... Don was the man I was talking to. If Nightforce has the same reticle choices I would pick NF just because I would be dealing with an American company.
Anyone have to send one back? Some dealers end the relationship at sale. If your scope is defective it’s on you to send it to Japan.
These are three on my short list US Optics FDN 10x 1.8-10x42 Nightforce NSX 2.5-10x42 March compact 1.5-10x42
I think you mean a March 1.5-15X42. If you do not now have a dealer, I would contact Don Carter at longrangesupply.com for excellent service.
Yes I transposed 10 for 15. I should had just copy/pasted... Don was the man I was talking to. If Nightforce has the same reticle choices I would pick NF just because I would be dealing with an American company.
Understood. You do know that the NXS is made in Japan by LOW.
Now if you want to stretch a point, there are probably Chinese parts in the NXS or anything else that may come from LOW, whereas there are none in the March scopes.
But the NXS is cheaper than the March and it has no ED glass and only a 4X zoom and stops at 10X.
But the NXS is cheaper than the March and it has no ED glass and only a 4X zoom and stops at 10X.
The NXS is just an example. The Atacr is a nicer model, but its prices are in line with March. I have a buddy that thinks the NXS is junk, because he's an Atacr snob. LOL
As promised, here is a longer answer. March riflescopes are a brand of scopes designed and manufactured by the Japanese company called Deon Optical Design corporation. It is celebrating its 15th year right now and they have built and moved into a new factory building. Their official website is www.marchscopes.com. You can read their story as the site is replete with information.
They have designed and built various models over this time, and you can see the evolution of the various designs over that time frame. Their current line-up is very impressive. From best in class LPVOs, as exemplified by the March 1-10X24 with dual reticle to the March-X 8-80X56 (Second Focal Plane) and the March Genesis 6-60X56 (First Focal Plane with 118mil adjustmenr range), they have the most innovative designs, with the top-notch manufacturing to deliver these products.
I have learned a great deal about their products, the company, and its people over the last 6 years. They have invited me to attend SHOT show in their booth in 2018-2020. There was no SHOT show in 2021 and this year, they only have a static display because of travel restrictions from Japan. They have already asked me to be in their booth in 2023. I do not work for Deon/March. I do not sell scopes. I am just a HUGE fan of their products, I am a competitive shooter, and I know a little bit about optics.
March scopes were the first ones anywhere to feature ED-glass in riflescopes. They started that almost from the beginning of their history. In fact, all March scopes have ED glass elements except for a few models. The LPVOs with 24mm objectives have non-ED glass. The others that do not have ED glass, instead have Super-ED glass, and again, March is the first anywhere to have Super-ED glass and currently still the only ones. Before you pooh-pooh ED and Super-ED glass as "marketing fluff," don't. Just don't, it's a real thing. I'm happy to discuss it, but in another post.
The March 1.5-15X42 that you asked about is an innovative design with a huge objective lens in a 1.5X base magnification. I have one mounted on a competition-grade AR-15. I love the range of magnification, as an all-around optic. When I got mine about 18 months ago, I noticed that the objective lens group appeared to be a new design. It certainly has a little heft to it. I have since discovered that my suspicions were correct and learned a bit about the reasons for the new design. At the low end of magnifications, this is one impressive riflescope.
March scopes are all hand-made in Japan by Deon, now at that new factory. The bodies are made from a solid ingot of aluminum (not the 6061 or 7075 junk, better stuff,) and machined down to the proper shape. No extrusion, no multi-piece. Everything in the scope is top quality all-Japanese parts. (There is not China crap in there anywhere.) The scope bodies are filled with argon, not nitrogen, for longer life. Everything about these scopes is designed and built for long life.
The warranty is 10 years, because of Japanese law, but they will support you beyond that time. I have several March scopes and have had March for almost 10 years now. I have never had a problem with any of them.
March scopes are usually built to order because they have so many options and features, but some dealers have some of the most popular models in stock. It usually takes two months to get the exact model you want with the specific features (reticle, knobs) that you want.
If you have specific questions about a certain model, post it here. I'm sure someone can answer.
Helpful info. How are they with impact/drop tests and zero retention? Looking at the compact models, 2.5-25x52 for example. How are they able to keep the weight down so much, yet still retain absolute durability? Anything else comparable is 6+ ounces more.
Also, as a hunter, a lot of what they offer is of zero interest to me. They need to expand their hunting offerings. Hunters really don't need 10X as the loss of FOV/exit pupil and eye box just isn't worth it. A compact version in the 6X range, like 3-18x52, would be ideal, provide all the magnification ever needed for hunting, and would do away with a lot of the complaints. Keep it at 23 oz and they'd sell a ton of em.
Helpful info. How are they with impact/drop tests and zero retention? Looking at the compact models, 2.5-25x52 for example. How are they able to keep the weight down so much, yet still retain absolute durability? Anything else comparable is 6+ ounces more.
Also, as a hunter, a lot of what they offer is of zero interest to me. They need to expand their hunting offerings. Hunters really don't need 10X as the loss of FOV/exit pupil and eye box just isn't worth it. A compact version in the 6X range, like 3-18x52, would be ideal, provide all the magnification ever needed for hunting, and would do away with a lot of the complaints. Keep it at 23 oz and they'd sell a ton of em.
That is a very astute question about the weight. I actually asked that same question of the head designer at Deon and he explained that they engineer the innards to make them as light, yet as strong as possible. Of course, they do all the various tests and you can read about that at their website. They build their scopes from durability and long life. Their zero retention and tracking are legendary over at accurateshooter.com.
My first March was a March-X 5-50X56, which I bought 10 years ago. It replaced a Nightforce NXS 12-42X56 on my F-TR match rifle. Over the next 8 years, that rifle/scope combo participated in well over 100 local monthly matches, 16 multi-day state matches, a pair or multi-day regionals, 8 week-long Nationals and 2 World competitions. It traveled all over the continent and went into a countless hotel rooms and trunks or cargo spaces. It rode on carts and so on. It saw over 20,000 full power F-TR loads. It never wavered and always had great tracking. I dialed it a lot. After all this, it looks pristine. The finish March uses seems to be impervious to the elements. The knobs show a little bit of wear on the knurling. I wonder why? :-)
My NXS showed some wear after just two years of similar regimen. The Nightforces are simply not as solid and well-built as the Marches.
Copy all of that But if NF fails I send to America to fix If March fails I have to send to Japan on my own
That's something I'd worry about if I had, say, a Vortex. The nice thing about a March is it will need repair at *maybe* 1/10th or less the rate of a cheap scope. Frankly, I don't buy scopes based on warranty - if I have to use the warranty, the scope is [bleep] junk.
FWIW, I know of people who sent their scopes back for various reasons. Turn around time seems like it was about a month, maybe 6 weeks. Can Leupold even compete with that?
I get a kick out of the naysayers that have never touched one...
I own and have owned numerous models from nearly every major brand there is. March scopes are absolutely top shelf. They're my first choice in every case unless I'm dealing with a sleek classic rifle that calls for a small 1" scope.
But the NXS is cheaper than the March and it has no ED glass and only a 4X zoom and stops at 10X.
The NXS is just an example. The Atacr is a nicer model, but its prices are in line with March. I have a buddy that thinks the NXS is junk, because he's an Atacr snob. LOL
I've seen people like this. It's like the NXS is dust under their feet.
If Nightforce has the same reticle choices I would pick NF just because I would be dealing with an American company.
Back in the early 90's, I remember seeing ads for Lightforce scopes in Precision Shooting. Then it became Nightforce Scopes. I remember thinking what kid came up with those names? Back then the gossip was that the company was Australian, but was having scopes made under contract in Japan. (a business model that seems to be pretty popular these days with China manufacturing - Vortex, et al).
Despite my skepticism, Nightforce has flourished put out great offerings and at the very least are now "naturalized" American.
One day I will own a March scope. I've not spoken to a single owner that regretted their purchase (except for hiding the purchase price from the wife).
Back in the early 90's, I remember seeing ads for Lightforce scopes in Precision Shooting. Then it became Nightforce Scopes. I remember thinking what kid came up with those names? Back then the gossip was that the company was Australian, but was having scopes made under contract in Japan. (a business model that seems to be pretty popular these days with China manufacturing - Vortex, et al).
Despite my skepticism, Nightforce has flourished put out great offerings and at the very least are now "naturalized" American.
Yes, they were originally sold in Australia under the name Lightforce. The Aussies used them for night time kangaroo hunting. When they came to the U.S. market, they originally retained the Lightforce name, then it was Lightforce USA and finally Nightforce. A local shop was one of the original U.S. dealers so I got to see a lot of them. The Lightforce fixed power 15-56 with the NP2RR reticle was very popular in my area with fox and coyote hunters.
Hakko had a scope that was externally identical to the original Lightforce scopes but were no where near the optical or tracking quality. A lot of those were sold through Autagua Arms in Alabama.
Benchrest competitor Turk Takano was primarily responsible for bringing the March scopes to life and into the U.S. through his connections in Japan, where he was a leading writer for Japan's biggest gun publication. He had relocated to Texas and worked with the principles that founded Deon Optics.
Benchrest competitor Turk Takano was primarily responsible for bringing the March scopes to life and into the U.S. through his connections in Japan, where he was a leading writer for Japan's biggest gun publication. He had relocated to Texas and worked with the principles that founded Deon Optics.
I thought it was quite well known in the benchrest community that it was Lou Murdica that was responsible for bringing March to America ????? I know he at least had something to do with the initial design.
The D24V42FIML with the FML reticle really caught my attention a while back. Not overly heavy and the reticle looks pretty good for hunting. I'd really like to give one a try.....I need to sell a few things and order one.
I thought it was quite well known in the benchrest community that it was Lou Murdica that was responsible for bringing March to America ????? I know he at least had something to do with the initial design.
Mr. Murdica provided the significant funding needed for the project. At that level, there's no doubt he was involved with the project from a features stand point, as well. Butch Lambert has written here on the full history of the March scopes. A search will get you the results.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
3 minute video, a bunch of smart looking Japanese gentlemen, a bunch of target shooting aficionados, and not one second dedicated to hunter use. Man, I really wanted to like these things but I guess they just aren't intended for guys like me.
I have one of the 2.5X25X42's. (I think 42?) Had it for around 8-10 years. Probably my favorite scope. Been to Africa a couple of times in the last 3 yrs. Something like 25 animals taken with it. Good clarity. Holds zero very well. Eyebox is a little tight at higher magnification. Sits on a 7 SAUM. Love the lighter weight. If you can afford it then go for it. Great all around scopes. Never had a problem with mine. Bruce
I have one of the 2.5X25X42's. (I think 42?) Had it for around 8-10 years. Probably my favorite scope. Been to Africa a couple of times in the last 3 yrs. Something like 25 animals taken with it. Good clarity. Holds zero very well. Eyebox is a little tight at higher magnification. Sits on a 7 SAUM. Love the lighter weight. If you can afford it then go for it. Great all around scopes. Never had a problem with mine. Bruce
Now we're talking! Thanks. That's what I was looking for.
The March 2.5-25X42 or 52 (there are two models) are awesome scopes; solid as all get out, light, and totally reliable. The FFP version is the 3-24X42 and 52. Same design, length, and weight, and longevity.
In that range, my current favorite is the March 1.5-15X42. It's 10 inches and 22 ounces, 2 inches shorter than the 2.5-25X42 and 3-8X42, but about an ounce or 2 heavier. That's because of the new design objective lens group. (There's some magic going on in there.) They all have ED glass, of course. They are March scopes.
Lou and Turk are definitely part of the March saga and are absolute characters. I always enjoy talking with them.
Now is it better, more reliable, durable, tracks better, etc than a Zeiss V6 or Swaro Z6 in 3-18X50, which weigh 23 and 20 oz, respectively? I'd rarely use mag above 18 anyways, so by comparison, that capability of the March is not relevant to me.
3 minute video, a bunch of smart looking Japanese gentlemen, a bunch of target shooting aficionados, and not one second dedicated to hunter use. Man, I really wanted to like these things but I guess they just aren't intended for guys like me.
What is your budget for a hunt?
If you are just out whacking a couple hogs or whitetails, I'd say these scopes are more than you need. But if you are doing a once-in-a-lifetime hunt, I'd seriously look at these. Or maybe just hope the guide has a gun you could borrow if your scope takes a dump.
There's no shame in having a realistic budget based on mitigating real risks. I don't put Marches on my whitetail rifles. But it usually costs me less than $100 for a day of hunting. (Food, travel, lodging, missed wages, tags, etc)
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
Buddy has a 2.5-25x42. He initially mounted it on his NULA 300WinMag, a bit under 8# all-up IIRC. I shot the rifle w/that scope atop shooting 210 ABLR projectiles @ 2950fps. Recoil was "stout". I shot it from 10x up to 25x, from 200yds out to 600yds. I had no trouble finding the image, nor "staying in the image" shooting prone out to 600yds. Nothing came close to touching my brow during recoil. I didn't actually measure eye-relief, but, whatever it is, it's "enough" on a lightweight w/significant and snappy recoil.
The scope now resides atop his 1:7 240Wby NULA and it's a hoot to shoot.
The only feature that might give me pause would be the limited mounting space, especially on a long action, it works on his 2 rifles, but, there's almost 0 room fore/aft to adjust eye relief. On a short action it would bother me less, and if you don't mind a rail, then it's a non-issue altogether.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
Buddy has a 2.5-25x42. He initially mounted it on his NULA 300WinMag, a bit under 8# all-up IIRC. I shot the rifle w/that scope atop shooting 210 ABLR projectiles @ 2950fps. Recoil was "stout". I shot it from 10x up to 25x, from 200yds out to 600yds. I had no trouble finding the image, nor "staying in the image" shooting prone out to 600yds. Nothing came close to touching my brow during recoil. I didn't actually measure eye-relief, but, whatever it is, it's "enough" on a lightweight w/significant and snappy recoil.
The scope now resides atop his 1:7 240Wby NULA and it's a hoot to shoot.
The only feature that might give me pause would be the limited mounting space, especially on a long action, it works on his 2 rifles, but, there's almost 0 room fore/aft to adjust eye relief. On a short action it would bother me less, and if you don't mind a rail, then it's a non-issue altogether.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
Buddy has a 2.5-25x42. He initially mounted it on his NULA 300WinMag, a bit under 8# all-up IIRC. I shot the rifle w/that scope atop shooting 210 ABLR projectiles @ 2950fps. Recoil was "stout". I shot it from 10x up to 25x, from 200yds out to 600yds. I had no trouble finding the image, nor "staying in the image" shooting prone out to 600yds. Nothing came close to touching my brow during recoil. I didn't actually measure eye-relief, but, whatever it is, it's "enough" on a lightweight w/significant and snappy recoil.
The scope now resides atop his 1:7 240Wby NULA and it's a hoot to shoot.
The only feature that might give me pause would be the limited mounting space, especially on a long action, it works on his 2 rifles, but, there's almost 0 room fore/aft to adjust eye relief. On a short action it would bother me less, and if you don't mind a rail, then it's a non-issue altogether.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
Buddy has a 2.5-25x42. He initially mounted it on his NULA 300WinMag, a bit under 8# all-up IIRC. I shot the rifle w/that scope atop shooting 210 ABLR projectiles @ 2950fps. Recoil was "stout". I shot it from 10x up to 25x, from 200yds out to 600yds. I had no trouble finding the image, nor "staying in the image" shooting prone out to 600yds. Nothing came close to touching my brow during recoil. I didn't actually measure eye-relief, but, whatever it is, it's "enough" on a lightweight w/significant and snappy recoil.
The scope now resides atop his 1:7 240Wby NULA and it's a hoot to shoot.
The only feature that might give me pause would be the limited mounting space, especially on a long action, it works on his 2 rifles, but, there's almost 0 room fore/aft to adjust eye relief. On a short action it would bother me less, and if you don't mind a rail, then it's a non-issue altogether.
A picitinny rail solves all mounting issues.
Eyebox has nothing to do with mounting issues.
Never said that. How did you get that out of my post?
Guess it was a misinterpreted inference then. One of the recurring complaints about this particular March scope is the tight eye box. I thought you were inferring that a rail solved this issue.
Most modern rifle cartridges will take you to 400 yards without the need for a knob. With a little bit of practice 500 shouldn't be a problem as well. All without clicking and dicken. I personally don't care for knobs on a hunting rifle scope. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate my March scopes for Target work they do what I need and they do very well out to a thousand yards. But when you're talking about hunting I'll stick with what I recommended up top. The Schmidts are built like tanks. Have second to none optics.Are first focal plane which gives you an edge in the dark. And if an unusual situation did occur where you needed to have service you send it to Virginia.
That's part of what makes them a great hunting scope. The FFP P3 is about perfect for general hunting and longer range shots on game. Spent some time with one this fall and really liked it. I wish they had more adjustment range on them, but, depending on your cartridge and desired distance, they'd be fine for anything but further than what most guys shoot at game.
The glass is superb. Excellent late and early scopes.
That's part of what makes them a great hunting scope. The FFP P3 is about perfect for general hunting and longer range shots on game. Spent some time with one this fall and really liked it. I wish they had more adjustment range on them, but, depending on your cartridge and desired distance, they'd be fine for anything but further than what most guys shoot at game.
The glass is superb. Excellent late and early scopes.
You can go at great distance with the dial and reticle combo
I agree here. March scopes are nice but not, in my opinion, optimal for hunting. Schmidt and Bender followed by Swarovski for hunting scopes.
What exactly prevents March scopes from being "optimal for hunting"? Are there specific items or just a general fact-free statement?
Well, I was not trying for a general fact-free statement but it appears I was amiss in saying what was said!
I have had limited opportunity to get my hands on March scopes. I like the quality of them however, they ones I had seen were more of a target style/type scope. What I do see now is that the low power scopes have a small front objective which is not good for early and late time hunting and the higher power scopes are, well pretty darn high. So, 3-24x42, 4.5-28x52, 5-40x56, 4-40x52, and 6-60x56. All the reticles seem pretty busy as well. I have not seen much use for anything near a 24 power scope and certainly nothing higher, in my hunting situations. Not saying they will not work but, it seems like a 4-12x42 is a better choice or a 4-16x50 for my hunting which is shooting at distances than 400 yards. Even my varmint shooting is at distances less than 400. So generally, for me - get a Schmidt and Bender or a Swarovski with a simple reticle. Unless you're shooting a long ways off....but even then I would probably look at Schmidt & Bender PMII.
I do believe that March scopes are of excellent quality, just nothing fitting my needs at this time and that is the only reason I do not own one.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Forms also claimed that he'd rather trust his life to a Bushnell than a S&B. I posted that on Snipers hide and they laughed. Especially Lowlight owner and former Marine Corp Sniper.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Good info. Thanks. But please tell me how you use 50x? Do you use the reticle? At 50x? Wow, isn’t that fov measured in inches, not feet?
Also, what’s the best dealer to buy one of these through with a flexible return policy? I’d like to try one out with the ability to return one if I dislike it.
And last question… does anyone make yardage turrets for these? No comments wise guys, it’s how I like to twist. I don’t change loads and I usually have multiple turrets for atmospherics.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Good info. Thanks. But please tell me how you use 50x? Do you use the reticle? At 50x? Wow, isn’t that fov measured in inches, not feet?
Use the power that you want, it's not mandatory to use 50X
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Good info. Thanks. But please tell me how you use 50x? Do you use the reticle? At 50x? Wow, isn’t that fov measured in inches, not feet?
Use the power that you want, it's not mandatory to use 50X
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Good info. Thanks. But please tell me how you use 50x? Do you use the reticle? At 50x? Wow, isn’t that fov measured in inches, not feet?
Use the power that you want, it's not mandatory to use 50X
Isn’t the reticle subtended at max? He said SFP.
I doubt that it's correct at 50 power that wouldn't make any sense.
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
The name dropping is interesting, but do any of these guys hunt? I need a review from a hunter's perspective. I don't even know (nor care) what PRS is. I want to know if these things are durable and usable in the field. Things like eye relief and eye box, reticle nuances, drop test and shock durability, water/fog proof, resistance to temp extremes, dust and grit resistance, etc. All I can really find on these things are reviews from guys who seldom seem to leave the target range.
I have killed a dozen or so elk, bears, coues... using March scoped rifles. I have been the spotter on 50+ more. Most were with a 5-50 x56 model. Ranges from 200 to 1100 yards. Most on a 7 RUM but quite a few on 708, 270 WSM, 6.5 Cm, and a few others. All 2nd focal plane. Never have seen an issue. None returned for warranty. Formy is the only one I've heard talk smack about them. They apparently don't work on military rifles, only civilian...
Forms also claimed that he'd rather trust his life to a Bushnell than a S&B. I posted that on Snipers hide and they laughed. Especially Lowlight owner and former Marine Corp Sniper.
From what I’ve seen, Form’s tests of scope durability and mechanical function are more demanding than Frank’s, and more likely to separate the wheat from the chaff. The boys on SH laughing doesn’t mean much. There are Bushnells and then there are Bushnells. The Elite Tactical line has some models that have been pretty bulletproof IME and observation. The DMRII Pro is not your grandpa’s Banner, for example. That’s not to say anything about S&B, but comparing the mechanical durability between the PMII and the DMRII Pro or LRTS deserves more than a laugh.
My Elite tactical I n 4.5-30 is my favorite scope. No argument here.
At what point do you quit beating a scope up and consider it good enough. In real life, nobody will drive nails with a scope. That's just stupid. If they can handle the normal falls Dina and dunking they are good. I would rather it excells in useful categories than double as a leather working maul. I have broken a lot of scopes. I've dragged the March scopes through some nasty stuff. They're all still working great,
Never shot an animal with 50 power. Played with it a little at the range. Pretty dang awesome
At what point do you quit beating a scope up and consider it good enough. In real life, nobody will drive nails with a scope….
I have broken a lot of scopes.
That is why it’s useful for scopes to be stress-tested beyond what they are expected to experience in the field; to find out at what point they fail, and hopefully that point is well past your expected use. You may not be driving any nails with your scope, but in the odd event that you slip in an icy creek bed and tomahawk your rifle into the rocks, your scope may just take it without a bobble.
Similarly, I like to know that my bolt actions have a failure point north of 100k psi, so that when I’m loading to 60k psi I can do so with peace of mind.
How much internal travel does a S&B 3-12x42 Klassic have?
Not exactly sure (40 MOA total I think) but they are limited....20 MOA rail would put some strain on the erector spring for a 100 yd zero. Jerry from S&B suggested a 0 or 10 MOA rail for use with the 3-12-42 Klassik.
I can’t find March 1.5-15x42 mm normal turret MOA adjustment. Can it be ordered that way? Seems all the normal turrets are mil adjustments
That is correct. The MOA version of that riflescope only comes with "tactical" knobs, in other words, non-capped. My March 1.5-15X42 is an MOA version with the MTR-5 reticle, the same one as on my 5-50X56 and 10-60X56HM. The knobs are excellent. They do not move inadvertently; you have to want to turn them. This doesn't mean they are hard to turn. It's difficult to explain, but when you try them to understand. I have that scope on my beater AR-15 and the knobs don't move. As insurance, I have set up the zero stop to be at the setting for 100 yards. So, if ever I think the elevation knob moved, it could only move one way and I can crank it back down to be sure. I also have the big 0 set on the witness line. For the windage, I make sure the big 0 is set properly, (easy to do) and a visual check will reveal if it moved, and I can put it back.
The reticles in the 5-50X56 (my first March scope and I still have it 8 years on), the 8-80X56 and the 10-60X56HM are set for 10X. This then works for 20X, and 40X. The March website has a full description of the reticles.
Thank you for posting that S&B chart, I can never find it when I'm searching for it!
I really like Klassic for 'set & forget', but I can't use these on several older rifles that require more windage adjustment to zero. That's not the fault of the scope, but it is limiting for me....
Well, I was not trying for a general fact-free statement but it appears I was amiss in saying what was said!
I have had limited opportunity to get my hands on March scopes. I like the quality of them however, they ones I had seen were more of a target style/type scope. What I do see now is that the low power scopes have a small front objective which is not good for early and late time hunting and the higher power scopes are, well pretty darn high. So, 3-24x42, 4.5-28x52, 5-40x56, 4-40x52, and 6-60x56. All the reticles seem pretty busy as well. I have not seen much use for anything near a 24 power scope and certainly nothing higher, in my hunting situations. Not saying they will not work but, it seems like a 4-12x42 is a better choice or a 4-16x50 for my hunting which is shooting at distances than 400 yards. Even my varmint shooting is at distances less than 400. So generally, for me - get a Schmidt and Bender or a Swarovski with a simple reticle. Unless you're shooting a long ways off....but even then I would probably look at Schmidt & Bender PMII.
I do believe that March scopes are of excellent quality, just nothing fitting my needs at this time and that is the only reason I do not own one.
Thank you for a great answer with lots of details about your impressions.
You are correct in that March scopes started in the competition arena and later on got into the hunting world. In competition, you rely on the fact your riflescope will retain its zero through hundreds and thousands of rounds. You depend on proper tracking and return to zero. This has to be utterly reliable. It is my belief that I go through far more rounds on target with my competition rifle than any hunter I have ever heard of. Let's just take my F-TR match rifle. I have had it for 10 years now. It started with an NF NXS- 10-42X56 and then I upgraded to a March-X 5-50X56 a year or so later. The NXS was simply too dark for me in the early morning competitions in wintertime. I am now on my 5th barrel, something I change every 5000 rounds without fail. That's almost 25,000 rounds through that rifle in 10 years. The first 20k or so rounds were with the 5-50X56. Never a failure. To me, the internals and the tracking of a March are utterly dependable. They have to be as I dial a lot according to conditions and have to be able to come back to my "no wind zero" setting at the next match. That's what a tradition of competition brings.
Next, you mention the size of the objective on the LPVOs. Here you are showing some ignorance of optics, but please don't take that as an insult. A lot of people are unaware that a 1X scope cannot have a larger objective; it's the nature of the beast. You have to tailor all the components together to produce the desired result. In this case, the LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic) is designed to give a true 1X at the bottom end. If you look at the specifications for the March 1-4.5X24, for example, you will see that the exit pupil is 16mm at 1X. Why not 24mm you say, because optics. I would think a fixed 1X24 scope could have an exit pupil of 24mm, but when you have a zoom, that changes. However, the 16mm is more than twice as much as the human eye can use, so that makes it very easy to get behind that scope. Yes, at 4.5X, the exit pupil is indeed 5.33mm (24/4.5). That will be the same for the other LPVOs; the 1X exit pupil will never be 24mm, but it will be far larger than human eye can use and the top end will be (obj-diameter/magnification).
But you don't want to hunt with an LPVO, and I get that. That's why there is a 2.5-25X42 or 52 and now the 1.5-15X42. That latest one has a new design for the objective lens which allows it to have a 42mm objective with a 1.5X scope. I am not aware of any other scope that is a 1.5X with a 42mm objective. This is a feat of optical engineering. and it allows the higher magnification to have a larger exit pupil compared to the LPVOs. It's certainly larger than the 3-9X32 at equivalent magnifications.
The scopes that you listed, 3-24X42, 4.5-28X52 and so on, are all FFP and they do come with Christmas tree-style reticles. But there are other reticles available for them. As an example, the 4.5-28X52 is also available with the FML-LDK and FML-3 reticles. Very clean and non-busy reticles. The 5-40X56 only just got the FML-PDKI reticle. The other reticles available for it are non-Christmas tree design. The 3-24X42/52 has 6 reticles available for it, only 2 are Christmas-tree designs.
It is entirely possible that the few March scopes you have seen in real life would have the busy reticle as they are popular with the FFP models you listed. The 6-60X56 you mentioned is the Genesis model and it only comes with 2 reticles, one MIL and on MOA of the same Christmas tree design. This scope is not a hunting scope, it is the ultimate ELR scope, you know, the scopes for King Of @ miles and so on. Very expensive, BTW.
Your quest for a 4-12X42 would be fulfilled with a 1.5-15X42 or a 2.5-25X42. For the 4-16X50, you could have the 2.5-25X52. You don't have to dial up to the maximum if you don't want to. It's there if you need it.
A lot of people are unaware that a 1X scope cannot have a larger objective; it's the nature of the beast. You have to tailor all the components together to produce the desired result. In this case, the LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic) is designed to give a true 1X at the bottom end. If you look at the specifications for the March 1-4.5X24, for example, you will see that the exit pupil is 16mm at 1X. Why not 24mm you say, because optics. I would think a fixed 1X24 scope could have an exit pupil of 24mm, but when you have a zoom, that changes. However, the 16mm is more than twice as much as the human eye can use, so that makes it very easy to get behind that scope. Yes, at 4.5X, the exit pupil is indeed 5.33mm (24/4.5). That will be the same for the other LPVOs; the 1X exit pupil will never be 24mm, but it will be far larger than human eye can use and the top end will be (obj-diameter/magnification).
Always learning at my advanced age! Thanks for posting that.
My problem with the very high magnification scopes, for my type of hunting, is that there will always be an "ol [bleep]" moment (or two) that arises when you bring the rifle up to shoot and, yes, the scope was left on high power and now you can't see what you want to shoot. Or you can see the ticks on that critter you want to shoot.
I see some March scopes in my future (probably the 1.5-15x42 - for Varmints!). Price does not bother me as, in Optics, you generally get what you pay for. And good [bleep] lasts a loooong time.
A lot of people are unaware that a 1X scope cannot have a larger objective; it's the nature of the beast. You have to tailor all the components together to produce the desired result. In this case, the LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic) is designed to give a true 1X at the bottom end. If you look at the specifications for the March 1-4.5X24, for example, you will see that the exit pupil is 16mm at 1X. Why not 24mm you say, because optics. I would think a fixed 1X24 scope could have an exit pupil of 24mm, but when you have a zoom, that changes. However, the 16mm is more than twice as much as the human eye can use, so that makes it very easy to get behind that scope. Yes, at 4.5X, the exit pupil is indeed 5.33mm (24/4.5). That will be the same for the other LPVOs; the 1X exit pupil will never be 24mm, but it will be far larger than human eye can use and the top end will be (obj-diameter/magnification).
Always learning at my advanced age! Thanks for posting that.
My problem with the very high magnification scopes, for my type of hunting, is that there will always be an "ol [bleep]" moment (or two) that arises when you bring the rifle up to shoot and, yes, the scope was left on high power and now you can't see what you want to shoot. Or you can see the ticks on that critter you want to shoot.
I see some March scopes in my future (probably the 1.5-15x42 - for Varmints!). Price does not bother me as, in Optics, you generally get what you pay for. And good [bleep] lasts a loooong time.
You had better watch yourself, buddy boy, you're quickly becoming someone whose opinion I respect.
I totally get the "booze-dance-dance" moment that would ensue from leaving you variable scope at a higher-than-expected magnification, in a sudden, unexpected encounter. During the rare time when I hunt, I'm always checking that my scope is set at a low magnification for just those moments. On the March scopes, you can mount a fast lever made of polymer to quickly and easily actuate the zoom. A side benefit of that lever is that you can tell which magnification is on the scope just by looking where that lever is located and you can lower the magnification by just pushing the lever to the left until it stops. Little tricks, big benefits.
FTRShooter, by chance could you answer my question about best US dealer with a good return policy? I'd like to try one but there is no dealer near me. I'd like to be able to return the thing if I don't like it. Also, do you know if a custom yardage turret is available?
FTRShooter, by chance could you answer my question about best US dealer with a good return policy? I'd like to try one but there is no dealer near me. I'd like to be able to return the thing if I don't like it. Also, do you know if a custom yardage turret is available?
The March scopes are usually made to order but some dealers carry some stock for the most popular scopes with the most popular options. You should visit the March website to consult the list of dealers. I have suggested Don @ longrangesupply.com. You might want to talk with him. Another place is Eurooptic.com. They sometimes have some stock. I have no clue on return policies.
I am not aware of any custom yardage turrets. The only times, I have ever seen that request was always from an airgunner. March makes a large side focus wheel just for that, and it comes with a strip on which you can write the yardage. Since the scopes these airgunners use are the high magnification SFPs and they all dial down to 10 yards, you can see where they can have 10 yards, 11 yards, etc., and why they need it.
Yes, I already looked at that. No dealers near me and travelling to the shot show is not going to happen. What I need is a dealer with a user friendly return policy. Will EuroOptic allow returns of boxes that have been opened? Or someone else? Out of several dozen, I've never once returned a scope before!
So I’m confused by the retailers who say March Scopes are backordered. Is that just their normal order process and a misnomer? So you put one in your cart and buy it and is that what starts the order process? So I have to front $2500? What’s the lead time? Or are you really waiting until one come back in stock before shipping like a traditional backorder? In which case, like some SWFA models on perpetual backorder, I could be waiting forever?
Just looked at the 1.5-15 it looks very cool. Problem is euro optic has them for about 2500. I can’t see myself spending that. Yeah it’s a bit lighter and more trim than a nxs but for the extra grand what else am I getting. Maybe better glass, But the latest nxs glass is plenty good enough for me. Trim ness and about 6 ounces is all I see I am getting, while paying a lot more,
For a hunting scope a Zeiss v4 demo at 800 is even more sense. I can buy 3 of them. The competition models I get it. Those have a huge power range and for a competition rifle might as well spare nothing. Not hating Would love to try a 1.5-15. But not for that kind of money.
So I’m confused by the retailers who say March Scopes are backordered. Is that just their normal order process and a misnomer? So you put one in your cart and buy it and is that what starts the order process? What’s the lead time? Or are you really waiting until one come back in stock before shipping like a traditional backorder? In which case, like some SWFA models on perpetual backorder, I could be waiting forever?
I'm really in the dark about what goes on at various retailers. I would suggest you call them directly and talk to someone at the retailer you select. I have had a number of people tell me they ordered through Don @ longrangesupply.com and they were totally satisfied with the process as Don explained everything and kept them up to date throughout. I have also had people tell me they bought through Eurooptics and they were also very happy.
I do know that March scopes are in high demand for such a small company. They build the riflescopes by hand, on order. The lead time is 2 months for delivery once they get the order. That's at their website.
Just looked at the 1.5-15 it looks very cool. Problem is euro optic has them for about 2500. I can’t see myself spending that. Yeah it’s a bit lighter and more trim than a nxs but for the extra grand what else am I getting. Maybe better glass, But the latest nxs glass is plenty good enough for me. Trim ness and about 6 ounces is all I see I am getting, while paying a lot more,
For a hunting scope a Zeiss v4 demo at 800 is even more sense. I can buy 3 of them. The competition models I get it. Those have a huge power range and for a competition rifle might as well spare nothing. Not hating Would love to try a 1.5-15. But not for that kind of money.
CC, completely get what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense. March scopes are not for everybody. Yes, they are spendy and yes, you can get along just fine with a much cheaper riflescope that will do essentially the same things. You can see the same basic idea with cars, for example. You can get along just fine with a car that is MUCH cheaper than say a Ferrari, but some people want the Ferrari and can afford it.
And you are very right when you discuss competition, especially at the higher end. People will spend the money to get the very best. For hunting, and general target shooting, your point of view is dead on. But even then, some people want the best and can afford it. The OP wanted to know about March scopes and I hope he got the information he wanted. March scopes are not for everyone, but if you want utter dependability and longevity with awesome glass and features, they are the ticket.
So I’m confused by the retailers who say March Scopes are backordered. Is that just their normal order process and a misnomer? So you put one in your cart and buy it and is that what starts the order process? What’s the lead time? Or are you really waiting until one come back in stock before shipping like a traditional backorder? In which case, like some SWFA models on perpetual backorder, I could be waiting forever?
I'm really in the dark about what goes on at various retailers. I would suggest you call them directly and talk to someone at the retailer you select. I have had a number of people tell me they ordered through Don @ longrangesupply.com and they were totally satisfied with the process as Don explained everything and kept them up to date throughout. I have also had people tell me they bought through Eurooptics and they were also very happy.
I do know that March scopes are in high demand for such a small company. They build the riflescopes by hand, on order. The lead time is 2 months for delivery once they get the order. That's at their website.
OK. So the "backorder" is really not a "backorder"? It's really the first stages of the order process? Do I have to pay 100% up front, or put down a deposit like most other things that are "built to order"? Pardon all the questions, it's really just so different from what I'm used to and doesn't instill confidence. When I want a Swaro, or Zeiss or Nightforce, I don't have to kiss $2500 away for months. Does this mean the business is not well capitalized enough to last? Is it a red flag, or an intentional business strategy? I sent Don at long range supply an email last night with these questions. I'll respond back once I hear some answers.
So I’m confused by the retailers who say March Scopes are backordered. Is that just their normal order process and a misnomer? So you put one in your cart and buy it and is that what starts the order process? What’s the lead time? Or are you really waiting until one come back in stock before shipping like a traditional backorder? In which case, like some SWFA models on perpetual backorder, I could be waiting forever?
I'm really in the dark about what goes on at various retailers. I would suggest you call them directly and talk to someone at the retailer you select. I have had a number of people tell me they ordered through Don @ longrangesupply.com and they were totally satisfied with the process as Don explained everything and kept them up to date throughout. I have also had people tell me they bought through Eurooptics and they were also very happy.
I do know that March scopes are in high demand for such a small company. They build the riflescopes by hand, on order. The lead time is 2 months for delivery once they get the order. That's at their website.
OK. So the "backorder" is really not a "backorder"? It's really the first stages of the order process? Do I have to pay 100% up front, or put down a deposit like most other things that are "built to order"? Pardon all the questions, it's really just so different from what I'm used to and doesn't instill confidence. When I want a Swaro, or Zeiss or Nightforce, I don't have to kiss $2500 away for months. Does this mean the business is not well capitalized enough to last? Is it a red flag, or an intentional business strategy? I sent Don at long range supply an email last night with these questions. I'll respond back once I hear some answers.
Go to Euro Optic. They have some March Scopes in stock. Seems like you really want S&B if you hunt. They used to have a 4-16x50 Precision Hunter which allowed dialing. Even long range 16x should be more than enough.
So I’m confused by the retailers who say March Scopes are backordered. Is that just their normal order process and a misnomer? So you put one in your cart and buy it and is that what starts the order process? What’s the lead time? Or are you really waiting until one come back in stock before shipping like a traditional backorder? In which case, like some SWFA models on perpetual backorder, I could be waiting forever?
I'm really in the dark about what goes on at various retailers. I would suggest you call them directly and talk to someone at the retailer you select. I have had a number of people tell me they ordered through Don @ longrangesupply.com and they were totally satisfied with the process as Don explained everything and kept them up to date throughout. I have also had people tell me they bought through Eurooptics and they were also very happy.
I do know that March scopes are in high demand for such a small company. They build the riflescopes by hand, on order. The lead time is 2 months for delivery once they get the order. That's at their website.
OK. So the "backorder" is really not a "backorder"? It's really the first stages of the order process? Do I have to pay 100% up front, or put down a deposit like most other things that are "built to order"? Pardon all the questions, it's really just so different from what I'm used to and doesn't instill confidence. When I want a Swaro, or Zeiss or Nightforce, I don't have to kiss $2500 away for months. Does this mean the business is not well capitalized enough to last? Is it a red flag, or an intentional business strategy? I sent Don at long range supply an email last night with these questions. I'll respond back once I hear some answers.
Go to Euro Optic. They have some March Scopes in stock. Seems like you really want S&B if you hunt. They used to have a 4-16x50 Precision Hunter which allowed dialing. Even long range 16x should be more than enough.
If they made a 4-16x50 Precision Hunter in SFP/MOA, I'd buy one.
If they made a 4-16x50 Precision Hunter in SFP/MOA, I'd buy one.
I get the impression you do not like FFP. Is that right?
I used to wonder about them and, after using them, came to prefer them over SFP.
Correct. I’ve been at this for a few decades now. I’m having a hard enough time with twisty things on my scope and marks on my crosshairs. And math hurts. You know that thing about old dogs and new tricks? Yeah, that’s me.
And yes I tried. Bought a wonderful Meopta in FFP a couple years ago and tried to get on board. Gave it hell, just couldn’t get used to it. Sold it to a good buddy and he loves it.
Mil or moa. Always preferred moa in the past. Now days it’s pretty much potato pahtato. It’s just a unit of measure. Mil does break down better for a ffp reticle I will say that.
Mil or moa. Always preferred moa in the past. Now days it’s pretty much potato pahtato. It’s just a unit of measure. Mil does break down better for a ffp reticle I will say that.
Yeah, it's not exactly pohtato Vs.potahto. The actual usage is different. Let me give you a real-life example.
I'm a (very) long time high power competition shooter who sought refuge in F-class about 17 years ago because I could use a riflescope. In NRA (and similar) competitions at known distances, requiring a high degree of precision, the SFP riflescope with an MOA-based reticle rules the roost. The target is all MOA based and even with varying distances (like 600 and 1000 yards), you just use a zero setting for that distance as expressed in MOAs offset from the other distances. For example, my 1000-yard zero is the actual 0 on my scope and to get to the 600-yard zero, it's 20MOA down, or two turns. When I'm finished at 600, I dial back to the 1000-yard zero. Easy peasy. During a match, I will make corrections depending on what I see on the target, and it's all MOA.
I also shoot (infrequently) some PRS competitions. There are various distances encountered in the course of fire. They will range from say 300 yards to 1000 yards. Before the match, I make a quick chart of the various distances and set up the FFP/Mil scope on my PRS rifle, such as it is, with the 0 set to below the minimum distance for the course. Then I calculate the distances to be fired and plot them from the zero I just set. For instance, I have a course with targets at 341, 479, 595, 702, 797 and 950 yards. My zero on the rifle is 200yards. So, I plot out the various come up from 200 for the distances I just listed. The come-ups will all be in Mill to 1 decimal. For example, 341 could be 1.4 MIL; 479, would be 2.7MIL and so on until I get to 950 which would be say, 9.4MIL. The elevation dial on my FFP scope is 10MIL/rotation. This means that I simply dial the exact number on that dial, that corresponds to the come-up for that distance. I can quickly dial from 1.4 to 9.4 (341 yards to 950yards) just turning the dial and looking at the numbers.
Try doing that with an MOA-based dial really quickly. For one thing you will get tripped with the 1/4 or 1/8 MOA markings and also, instead of a dial that has 36MOA per revolution (10MIL), you have a 10MOA/rev or some such. That gets even trickier and I guarantee you that at my age, I will be badly fumbling and be totally lost halfway through the first stage as the targets are not necessary in order of increasing distances. The fiends.
Anyway, that has been my experience; use the proper tool for the job. MOA and MIL are both suitable for hunting, but I find it's easier to dial offsets in MILs. That's if you dial at all, of course.
Hash spacing on the reticle should be 2 MOA @10X/ 1 MOA@20X.
Needs covered/locked windage turrret.
Sure are a lot of interesting scopes on the market these days.
Have you looked at the D25V42M with an MTR-4 reticle? It has capped knobs and the hash spacing that you want.
The 42mm objective is a deal killer on any optic over 10X for me much less 25X, 2mm exit pupil (@20X) just ain't going to work under recoil on game no matter the glass.
That said the MTR-4 reticle is pretty good when combined with good illum and is available on the 52mm.
Now Deon just needs to cap or lock the windage and keep a proper elevation turret.
Hash spacing on the reticle should be 2 MOA @10X/ 1 MOA@20X.
Needs covered/locked windage turrret.
Sure are a lot of interesting scopes on the market these days.
Have you looked at the D25V42M with an MTR-4 reticle? It has capped knobs and the hash spacing that you want.
The 42mm objective is a deal killer on any optic over 10X for me much less 25X, 2mm exit pupil (@20X) just ain't going to work under recoil on game no matter the glass.
That said the MTR-4 reticle is pretty good when combined with good illum and is available on the 52mm.
Now Deon just needs to cap or lock the windage and keep a proper elevation turret.
Thanks for pointing out the MTR-4.
Well, you can always contact Deon and ask them if they can have a capped windage knob and an exposed "tactical" elevation knob?
That said, the regular capped knobs are very nice.
Hash spacing on the reticle should be 2 MOA @10X/ 1 MOA@20X.
Needs covered/locked windage turrret.
Sure are a lot of interesting scopes on the market these days.
Have you looked at the D25V42M with an MTR-4 reticle? It has capped knobs and the hash spacing that you want.
The 42mm objective is a deal killer on any optic over 10X for me much less 25X, 2mm exit pupil (@20X) just ain't going to work under recoil on game no matter the glass.
That said the MTR-4 reticle is pretty good when combined with good illum and is available on the 52mm.
Now Deon just needs to cap or lock the windage and keep a proper elevation turret.
Thanks for pointing out the MTR-4.
Well, you can always contact Deon and ask them if they can have a capped windage knob and an exposed "tactical" elevation knob?
That said, the regular capped knobs are very nice.
It looks like anything with a capped turret is 10 MOA per rotation or the small objective and thats a deal killer for me on a hunting scope.
I can make custom turrets in yardage for about anything but really need 20 MOA per rotation to be practical.
The compact line (D25V52TI) with the illum MTR-4 reticle is really interesting if the windage turret would lock or could be capped. I would not care what the per rotation was or even what the click value was within reason.
That scope is 5ozs heavier than my current favorite Leupold VX6 3-18X50mm and in the long run I am sceptical it brings any real world advantage but........
I would love to check out the elevation turret setup for a custom slightly taller Drop Compensating Turret engraved in yardage and to see how Deon set up the zero stop.
I just checked retail price and was sort of suprised @ $2500, figured it would be more.
I was looking at High End Scopes and I investigated NightForce , I already had a Swaro. I was looking at Hensolt , S&B and several others 1 of the things that sold me on the March was and this may have already been mentioned in another post. Is that the reputation and Claim to Fame of the March Scopes was that the Point of Impact did not change between the low setting and high setting on their Variable Scopes. I wanted the Highest Power that I cold get and that was the March 8--80 56mm I mounted it on my Spring Field M21 Custom Build. When I go to the Range to shoot I was usually the last guy to leave in the evening after everyone would pack up and go home due to the dark I was still shooting for some times up to an hour after they would leave. Some shooters would hang around and I would let them shoot. Everyone that shot agreed that that March Scope had the best glass and light retention that they had ever seen. The glass is better than my Swaro. and about 6 or 7 of us did a side by side comparison with every Scope they had in my favorite Gun Shop back when I received my March only one guy said that the NightForce had better glass and everyone else kinda beat him up about it. He was a boneafied to the Core NightForce guy. Everyone else said that the March had better glass. I almost did not get the Scope back from one salesman He said that he was looking down the blouse of a real good looking girl diagonally across the street threw 2 glass windows probably 300+ yards away. If I am ever in the market for another Scope March will be the first company I will be looking at. Ya the field of view (eye box) is tight but what would anyone expect for an 80 power scope. My Hart Beat and Breathing will not let me turn it all the way up when shooting 60 is about the max for me But it makes a GREAT Spotting Scope and I can turn it down when shooting. The first time I took it out to set the Scope I was getting upset because I was loosing the Target at a 100 yards even when the Rifle was set in a sand bag. I got frustrated because it took hours for me to realize that at 80 power I was looking at the grain structure of the paper target in between the target lines after I figured that out it was getting dark people were packing up and I placed 3 shots dead center you could cover them up with a Nickle & I am not that great of a shooter. I have since sighted it out to 200 & 300 Yards and I did OK again it is not me it is the equipment.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/2zDLRUZ.png)