You wish to select a hunting rifle scope's magnification for your needs.

"A" = max distance in yards we will take a shot at the intended quarry, with the SCOPE

"B" = max distance in yards we will take a shot at the intended quarry, with IRON SIGHTS (or peep sight)

"A" divided by "B" = "X" scope magnification

Examples:
A = 400 yards
B = 100 yards
X = 4x

example 2:
A = 600 yards
B = 100 yards
X = 6x
(c'mon, how many hunters actually shoot that far?)

Then ask yourself , "What is the TYPICAL yardage the intended quarry is taken? (" T " ). I'm guessing "T" is about 50% of "A" ( max distance in yards), which means scope magnification can be 5O% of "X" (magnification) .

Point to ponder: Are we "over-scoping" our hunting rifles (more magnification than needed)?
Scopes in the 2.5x to 4x power range (upper end 6x), don't really give up much and appear to be able to meet 90%(?), 95%(?), 99+%(?) of our hunting needs?

I believe Wayne van Zwoll wrote an article (Guns Digest? Shooters Bible?) which included this concept. I seem to remember him stating that he (sic) did not feel handicapped hunting big game with a 2.5, 3x, or 4x scope. I agree with him.

What's my point? Nothing more than responding to the many threads I've read about variable hunting scopes with 6x zooms to magnification of 14 to 18++ . Not saying it's "wrong," just trying to justify the fixed 4x scope on my 30-06. I think I'll stick with it.

Are we over-scoping ourselves? What is your "A", "B" , "X" and "T". values?

Found this article by Wayne van Zwoll: "The Forgotten 4"
https://gunsmagazine.com/gear/the-forgotten-four/


WvZ's artic!e on this websjte:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/scopes-that-do-it-all/

I guess Wayne van Zwoll writings I read years ago sunk deep and stuck into my sub-conscious brain as the basis for my post ( should more accurately called "his post." ). I enjoy his writing and thoughts.

Good fuggin’ grief….

You omitted target size. I use much higher power when shooting small varmints at distance than big game. 16x for varmints, 6x for big game.

No I didn't. I covered that with: "...at the intended quarry..."

No kidding.

Amen.

How many times have you taken your 30.06 with 4x scope west of the Mississippi?

Amen

My 338WM sported a K2.5 - I have a 22LR with an 18x - And a Mod 336, 35 Rem that wore a Millett Red Dot!?!?!?

My 'formula'???

'A' = W
'B' = G
'X' = A
'T' = F

Sorry, just don't see it as an issue..........

You mention 'need' in the first line.........

A word that has little meaning in the 'Campfire' world of guns..............

IMHO

I've never thought about it - at all. Ever.

Find a scope I like - put it on the rifle. Go shoot. It either works or doesn't. If not - change. Done.

😜

My kind of formula, no math required.

what cant be killed when big game hunting with a 3-9x40 scope....pick your power

Exactly!

I choose a scope for the most magnification I can get with a bottom field of view around 21 feet at 100 yards. A 6X scope at best is around 17 feet. That means I would loose 2 feet all the way around my field of view going with a 6X. That ain't happening. I have two scopes. For years I used the Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X52.
that's what I have on the 8mm Coyle. My newest is a March 2 1/2-25X52 and will go on the 7mmRUMLN. I discovered 16 on the top end does not satisfy my desire to really scope out an animal I found.

I don't do things for other folks; well except to be a nice guy.

Interesting concept and more than likely true. I live in the west and some years hunt 5 different states and have found FOV trumps X's every time. Even at home I have nearly 10,000 sq. miles of public land within an hours drive of the house. I spend a lot of time hunting. On open country scopes I like a minimum of 40 feet on the bottom end and hunting sage, mesquite thickets, mesquite dunes and river bottoms 60 feet on the bottom end. I'm not a big game hunter but a coyote pelt hunter. I spend from the end of October to the end of Feb hunting coyotes and other preds. My goto magnifications, tight cover calling, combo guns with 1-3 or 1-4 x20 scopes(still good to 300 with the rifle barrel), most common stands with fair visibility I'm VERY fond of 1.5-6x40ish scopes, and open country 2.5-10 and 2-12 scopes. All stay on the bottom end until more X's are needed, funny how even in open grass lands a coyote can find a crease and pop up near the caller.

There is never time to turn a scope down but usually more than enough time to turn the power up.

I put 4x16x40 scopes on everything i own. If im shooting big animals i may not need it, small game i need it. Paper, i always like seeing bullet holes.

Was gonna mention my choices. Thats just adding to the argument.

OP isn't a newbie so the thread is mental masturbation.

For a newbie, I'd recommend a bottom of 2-4x.
Top then depends on availability, price, dimensions.
Then decide where to go.


Bigger concerns than power for me is eye relief and eye box.

Glass, power....is nothing when you go prone or are twisted around a tree
trying to take a shot and your eye relief Is. fugged.
So now you contort a different way to get fov.

Nice.

I do agree that many are overscoped for big game. I've done some good work through the years at 5-600 yds with several iterations of 6X scopes.

If the world was limited to one scope itineration, this would be the one used.

I don’t have any fixed power scopes. I shoot most game animals on 3-6 power, but I definitely like the higher X’s to shoot paper, extend the range on big game, or if I’m shooting a 223 or 22 hornet precisely place a shorter range shot on deer.

Over the years my closest shot was 8 foot from the tree I had my climber attached to. The longest shot was approx. 225 yards.

For most of my 45+ years of hunting I have used 3-9 x 40 or 3.5-10 x 40. I have also used 2-7, 1.75-5, 2.5-8.

Several years ago I did my own little experiment. I set all of my variable power scopes to 6x. I did this for two years - and never moved the magnification ring.

I took several deer and hogs over the course of those two years. I made shots as close as 15 yards and as far out and 100+ yards. Shots were taken over open food plots, in the pines, and in hardwood bottoms.

I was never hindered by the 6x magnigication. I never thought about it. In fact, I found it convienient to just pick up the rifle, lay the cross hairs on target, and pull the trigger.

I purchased a fixed 6x with Post and Duplex recticle. It's an awesome scope. You might be suprised what you can do with a fixed power scope - if - that is all you have.

Other than at the range, I am not taking shots over 200 yards. Distances over that just do not present themselves.

For me it's simple. Fixed 6x or 3-9x40

I did the same a few years back. Set my scope on my primary deer rifle for Alabama on 7 and left it there all season. Really no issues. My shots ate 30 yards out to 225 with 90 % 100-150. Worked pretty good.

I have 4.5x14’s and 3.5x10’s. Point and shoot

A scope's a sight not a toy just shoot the fuggen thing.

Wrong! A scope is a status symbol. Then it is a toy. And a spotting scope and among other things, it is a sight.

This is some stupid amateur BS.

I recall reading one of O’Connor’s books where he was big on the 4x scope and I ran one for many years on my .270 Win. Now I prefer variables in the 2-10x range.

Overthinking it
2-10 is one and Done for 99% of your big game hunting needs. IMHO you don’t need more than 12x for big game, unless you’re a size queen or plan on 1000 + yards..

I wonder what hunters like O’Conner would use today given the options of today.

Back in the day, the rule of thumb was 1 power for every hundred yards of the intended target. 4x fit the bill for most hunters. Times have changed.

Not sure why anyone tries to dictate by personal preference or some ridiculous "formula" what scopes we should be using. But then, I can never figure out why people ask questions like "what scope should I put on _____ rifle" ? ....

I'm of the opinion you simply can't overscope a rifle. If you have more at the top end you seldom use, who cares? As long as the bottom end works for you the extra X's are just an added option like and option on your new truck you only use occasionally, but is sure is nice when you use it...

For varmint hunting I like as much magnification as I can reasonably get. Some of the critters are pretty small and a long ways out and others, like coyotes, tend to hide behind sage brush and other things while they plot their path to the attractant. In either case a bit more power can make a shot possible where less may leave you empty handed.

Another time I use the upper end of my scopes is when I spot a herd of elk or deer in a wood line. Often they mix it up as they move back and forth so it is important to detect which is the legal animal and which one isn't at any moment and when you have a clear shot- with no small bushes or trees in your line of travel. Sometimes you can do this with less power, but it is much easier if you can crank it up and watch for as long as you want until a shot presents itself.

All the OP's post indicates to me is the ever present situation we find on this site and others that tells us that different areas of the country dictate different hunting tactics- or guys on these forums often like to repeat what they read in some magazine to enlighten us all. Either way, I'll still use what I feel comfortable with and I doubt that will be a 6X scope any time soon....

Bob

Except that more magnification brings with it other trade-offs. A lot of this is personal preference, but there is such a thing as "overscoping" a rifle, depending on the application and preference of the user.

I guess I should modify my statement above- no such thing as overscoping a rifle as long as it suits your needs... but the point is that I don't think anyone needs a formula to choose the correct scope for their situation. Experience is and always will be the best teacher and 99% of the guys on this site have plenty of experience to decide for themselves what works... are we still just talking about power here or are other things coming into consideration by your statement? Weight? Size? Fit on your rifle? etc....

Bob

Everyone knows Jack would use a 4-16X.

Everyone knows Jack would use a 4-16X.
Or if your 12X doesn't show you if what you found with your binos, you can crank your 5-25X up to 25X and see a stub of a broken point making it legal.

Who cares? Everyone wants to know what would Elmer Kieth would be using

Of course he would use what John Lachuk told him to use.

This is pretty much the way I see it, but to each their own. People have different personal preferences and some like more magnification.

I agree.

I'm also talking about other optical design properties that are inseparable from magnification, like FOV, exit pupil, etc. There are trade-offs, and each user needs to choose a specific set of design features that suits their needs.

This or that may be one thing, but one must make yourself happy.

Have fun packing that big as* scope hunting the coast and minimum of 5x in that thick jungle.
I’ll take 2 or 2.5 with wide field of view and still be fine at 10x on clear cuts. It’s all good, You do you

Dre,

Thanks for granting permission. I hope your hunting season goes well.

4 to 6x is plenty for the top end on big game for all but the rare 400 yard plus shooter.

Then again, this isn’t about needs, it’s about wants. I have been buying higher end scopes with more magnification and larger objectives. I enjoy shooting paper and steel with them more than with smaller, lighter, quicker, cheaper hunting scopes.

I spend way more days shooting than hunting, assuming we count rock chucks as shooting, and I don’t like swapping scopes. So the scopes are bigger than they “have to be” when I hunt.

And the problem is?

I spend way more time hunting than shooting, also. But when I find game too far for a good look with binos, I take a leisurely look with high magnification rifle mounted scope.

You’re welcome brother. Lol.
Good luck this season to you as well.
I didn’t draw jack this year. Looks like OTC this year.
Next year is the year… 4 deer and 4 elk points should get me majority of choices.