I'm trying to sell a couple pair of binos at the moment and I am going to go back to 12x50's.....yes I tripod mount all my binos for glassing. I also have a 65mm spotter I bring when needed. I've searched the forum and my search fu came up with little....

It seems like the 12's are getting a little more scarce from manufacturers. I would love to get swaro's but not going to happen. Looking to stay around $800 or less. The contenders I have been looking at are:

Leupold BX 4 pro guide HD 12x50 : Selling the 10x42 version of this and the glass is excellent. Also recommended by the guys at Outdoorsmans.

Tract Toric 12.5x50 - seems well built, no complaints online except maybe IPD, supposed to compete at a higher price range.

Maven C.3 - on the lower end of their line, don't know much about this level. People seem to like Maven in general a bunch.

Athlon Midas G2 UHD 12x50 - again a lower budget bino that people say competes at a much higher level.

Burris signature HD 12x50 - can't seem to find much on these at all. Generally not much inventory available, but can be found.

Vortex Viper HD 12x50 - mixed reviews on these. So 50/50 good bad.

Any that I am missing? I have also been keeping an eye on the classifieds of a couple forums for used. Any I should look for?

Thoughts on which one to pick? Or experiences with any?

I would add used Meopta to your list.

I like my tract toric 12.5x50. Very nice optics.

Another vote for Tract. IMHO they are outstanding.

Good to hear some endorsements on Tract. Looks like I missed the labor day sale. That happens....lol.....

This.

They definitely are outstanding

Meoptas if you can’t afford Swarovskis.

I have the Tract 12.5, ran them against my Leica 10x50 ultravid on my antelope hunt, Leica won out decidingly. There was no reason to pack both and a tripod, which I did one day. Antelope and elk are easy to see, lightning bolts, no need for my 15s.

Real test would be the tract against the 15s on a coues hunt, coues are anything but lightning bolts.

The Tracts are fine in the mid priced binos, ok but not outstanding. Fine for the grandkids to learn on and loaners but wouldn't be my primary bigeyes over a used set of Docter or Steiner 15s.

Just because the Swaro 12x50 ELs are great doesn't mean other lesser 12s are better than a good set of 10s or 15s, most aren't

Kent

Take a look at the GPO Passion HD 12.5x50. If you'd like one we will honor the Labor Day Sale price of $1,147.49
It is an amazing optic

Swaro 12 EL. You’ll end up there eventually anyway. 😁

Yep, buy once cry once. 😬

I've had some ultravids in the past, both the 8-12 x 42 and an 8x32. I personally didn't like them. I think it was the yellow tint they seemed to give to everything. I really didn't find them to be "all that" in picture quality either. Partly why I know optics are personal choices.

I don't want to lug 10's and 15's....I have used 8x, 10x, 12x, and some 16's in the past. All tripod mounted as well. I can handhold the 12's well enough, and they give me just that little bit I am always looking for. I still have an old pair of nikon 12x42's which have seen better days. I just want a solid 12x50 to go along with my spotter. I really don't consider 12's as big eyes either...they start at 15 and 18x imho.

Thank you Doug. A bit out of my reach at the moment I think. Unless maybe I ask for Christmas in September!

If my binos would sell in the classifieds I'd be closer to the buy too.....lol...

SC

This is my judgement….and I own both the Tracts and the 12xEL. For the record, I am a huge Tract fan owning multiple scopes and binos.

If you didn't like the ultravids you'll like the tract even less image quality wise, add 12.5x vs 10 and the image is just bigger and fuzzy, comparative. I glassed an antelope buck at 4 miles with the Leica, I knew exactly where he was at by a trick tank and ON X hunt line measured, watched a red truck on the other side another half mile drive slowly through and they never saw him.

Anyway, 12s are a tweener and until Swaro came out with the EL and Pure, not a consideration with serious glassers. Now manufacturers all market a 12x based on the Swaros innovation and success but these don't really do anything more than the 12s ever did in the lower end market. Look at the vortex 12x razors, everyone had to have them at half the price of the Swaros... then everyone I know that bought them sold them.

Big eyes started right here with us old coues hunters and is still ground zero on technique and equipment testing, it's a lot more and even can be less than 15x binos, or binos themselves.

Most manufacturers can't get a 12x with a 50 or 42 objective to work like Swaro can. 10x they can do better... same with a 32 objective, 10x isn't really good but 8x is.

Since you asked for advise here is the best you will receive... at 800 bucks forget the 12x and go with the best 10x with an objective 50 or bigger, not 42, and you will glass more animals.

Kent

I would listen to this man...

There are a few 15's IMHO nipping very close to Swaro 15's....

12's also IMHO do hold at least a niche for glassing on a tripod. I use mine a bit....

But a quality set of 10's stable will trump budget 12's everytime...

I'm a listenin'....

Well krp you hit on one of the things I have wondered. Would just upping the objective to 50mm on a set of 10's be enough?

And since you said it....what 10x50's or better would make your list please? Seriously I'm interested....also any around that $800 mark?

Thanks gents!

Everyone I know except 1 that has tried the 2 optic 12X, spotting scope combo (including myself) has gone back to 8/10X as chest glass and 12/15X. The one that has stuck with it is using NL’s.

Personally, after using a quality 15x for a few years neither I nor my main hunting partner can go back to anything less for hunting deer/elk or other bigger critters. I keep a few pairs of 10x and a Swaro 8.5x42 around for trapping, bird hunting, chasing hounds and sometimes calling coyotes, but that is about it. They’re (15x) the only glass I usually take and only find them limiting when out of breath or glassing off the back of a horse that won’t stop eating. Using them I have found also packing a spotter is unnecessary in most (though not all) situations I find myself in. Specific legal criteria such as being full curl, 3 brow tines, etc. are an exception to that. If Swaro made a 15x in the NL Pure I’d be all over trying them. I have considered their 12x but haven’t done it yet.

$800 doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzy though I haven’t tried everything that the OP asked about. Amount of use and the conditions would have a bearing on my decision, I guess. I have never hunted coues so maybe that also has a bearing on what I use and prefer.

I like these.



temporary image hosting

https://worldbirds.com/best-12x50-binoculars/

https://top10best.how/binoculars-12...lkpSI-gIVixXUAR1_kw37EAAYAiAAEgIUBPD_BwE

I can’t hand hold 12’s very well, much less 15’s, especially when winded.

The sheep guy in the pic we were discussing is like you and carries nothing but 15’s. The guy I mentioned above tried 15’s before going with the NL 12’s but couldn’t make the 15’s work handheld. For me, 8’s and 15’s are the best balance I’ve found.

Like mentioned above, if I was getting down to only 2 optics, it would be 10’s and a spotter. ( will never happen)

Of the ones I’ve looked at, they are the best bang for the buck.

A lot of ground to cover, I'll just say a quick note on this... yes for swaro and a big no for celestron and diamondbacks... a no for vipers also though not listed.

12s... just to be clear the swaros have changed the bigeye world, first ELs and then Pures. If I was younger and not 65, with just a few years left I can really get out and utilize bigeyes, I'd buy the NL Pures and never look back. But my 15s tripoded with a good 10 or 8 is still fine and how I'll end likely.

The lowest end 12s I'd consider for my primary glass would be the Razors, I've seen them used for 750/800 bucks and the only way I'd buy them. GPO, Meopta, Zeiss conquests are at the low end of acceptability. All more than 800, though they may be around 1000 when Doug has demos or if he has demos. I don't buy binos often and not at retail, I've bought 3 demos from Doug at real bargains, mid 2000s a minox 10x52HD, good glass, I broke my leg on an elk hunt in 2009 and in the fall broke the binos also. Also Pentax 8x32 DCF SP, another sleeper that works, will be using them on an archery elk hunt in a couple days. Both of those are long discontinued. The Leica 10x50s I got from Doug as demos a few years ago for 1399 or 1499, HDs not HD plus, as much to finally replace my broken minox as it was a very good value.

So I am a user of midrange binos, you have to be selective and smart on power/objective to make money stretch vs performance.

I also bought the Tract as a demo from Tract, good price, and with two grandkids coming up I needed one more bino to put on a tripod for the range and scouting/hunting, so I had a reason for that specific one, fits kids, don't care what happens to it.

10X, most today are 42s, so that limits the choices in the mid range for 50s. 800 bucks used to buy some bottom of the highend scale, now it's 1000 to 1200 depending on sales, plus many are out of stock. Truthfully it is a bad time to buy shooting supplies and accessories. Like 12s are tweeners, 800 bucks is also, it puts you above most low end binos and can't quite reach the ones that you should, only a few in that range.

I have no idea about the Leupold BX4 10x50, just it's in your price range retail. The Tract would probably be my choice, logically it'd be sharper image in 10s over the 12.5, without giving up enough magnification to matter. I would make that choice now if I had it to do over and could get either one at demo price. I know the price is almost the same for the 10s, but the performance will be better and if just carrying one bino more practical... outdoorsman stud and adapter for easy on and off a tripod. I just don't see what animals you will miss with the 10s you would find with the 12s... again we aren't talking the alpha 12s... 800 dollar 12s.

I literally have glassed up a black eyeball of a coues buck laid in high yellow grass at 250yds with 15s... deer... no deer... deer... not a deer... is that antlers sticking out or my imagination of a bush's branches... no deer... oops he stood up and licked his hind leg... BOOM... wasn't a monster but last day of pack in trip and I was shooting any buck with three points and eyeguards.

Hunting in Colorado in the eighties I found that regular binos worked fine finding elk, but needed a spotter sometimes to judge if there were any legal bulls, 4pt or 6" front tine, before going on a 3hr stalk up a mountain.

Kent

I like em a lot slim. Kinda funny reading the online reviews, like anything in life, ever one has their own opinions on what they like, or think is “good”, weather it be optics, rifles, bullets, trucks or women.

PS I can’t hold hold my 15’s very steady either without a tripod, the 12’s are alot handier. 👊🏻

I have read this thread a couple times over the last day or so hesitating to jump in.......
I have to agree with most of what krp is saying with the exception of him liking the Steiner 15's, the next Steiner bino I like will be the first.
I have tried to like 12's but like krp says they are tweeners, for me I have a Swaro 10x and a Swaro 15x with a Leica spotter.
The only thing I could suggest in the OP's $800 price range is the Tract Toric 10x50, my son bought a set and I think they are great for the money

Can't argue with that especially in today's world of binos. Back when I started there were Zeiss 15x60s, Docter 15s, Steiner 15x56, Steiner 15x80 senator or 20x80 senator... all porros.

When Swarovski came out with the 15x56 roofs or maybe it was out but finally became popular, it had a problem, 30% of adult males could not use them, they didn't close down enough. I was one, so my choices were still a porro.

Docters to me weren't as clear as my Steiners, I never got to use the Zeiss though I always wanted to compare. I could outglass the guides I knew that had Swaros, just a fact I probably spent more time glassing than they did and experience trumps equipment.

By the time Swarovski came out with the HD15s that closed down enough, I was using 15s a lot less, my hunting had evolved again, away from coues hunting.

That's another thing about the Alpha 12x50s, they work for about anyone's eyes, big marketing factor.

Glassing and glass is complicated and each individual has limits and needs that one size does not fit all.

Kent

Interesting discussion. Thanks for all the input here. I appreciate it.

Looks like I'll have to do some figuring....

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...w/1/fs-gpo-12-5x-50-hd-binos-anib#UNREAD

GPO 12.5x50 for 850.00 right here in the classifieds... good deal.

Kent

Steiner is a mixed opinion brand I have noticed. I absolutely love my Steiner Peregrine 10x42 (I think they’re renamed the wildlife now). It blows my Swaro EL out of the water in reliability in wet and freezing weather, and is every bit as clear.
No comment on their 15x though. I have never played with them.

Here you have pretty much talked me OUT of a 12x50....and now you are saying here is one!! LOL......

I would have to sell my others before I would purchase. There has been no interest here, so I took them down. I may just have to "run what I brung" this year.

SC

Well it was a really good deal and I wasn't sure which way you had decided for certain... just in case.

The GPOs would be a 12 worth considering as a primary bino, I think your conclusion would be the same as about everyone else, but you could keep/add another 8 or 10x as a companion and have a good combo, or sell the GPOs for close to the same money.

Kent

The big porros are old testament. They are bigger and heavier than roofs. The thing you can say about porros is they have more clarity, bigger field of view and a better kind of 3D effect, I guess you could call it. Cost less to produce, dollar to dollar a better value.

They still work, just not as much of a cool factor.

Kent

Not to confuse the issue but you need to realize that for all of the excellent advice Kent has given you, hunting coues is a whole different level beyond 99% of most other hunting. Picking out little brown deer in the cactus and creosote 700 or 800 yards away requires the best optics as well as incredible skill (which I for one have very little of). That said, most of the rest of us in most situations can get by with less. Definitely buy the best you can afford but how much you are handicapping yourself using less than the very best depends on YOUR hunting.

"Best Of" optics lists basically show you what not to buy...

I use my 12's on backpacking hunts where I double them as scanners and tripod glass to save weight.

I also use them as tripod glass when I know I'm glassing specific basins that are within a mile and I want field of view or rut hunts.

That said, I've been scouting as of this evening 38 times since July and I've not taken the 12's one time....

That’s why I said it was funny. I’m still quite impressed with my little 8-32 meoptas. They’re my camping/vacation/some hunting Binos, watched some goats down in Kauai a long ways away with em, dandy little glasses👍

Well to me glassing is about finding animals period. I usually hunt my home state of Colorado. Glassing where I hunt can be from close in to a couple miles out. I am committed to using a tripod. I just find it makes everything easier.

So if I am understanding you Kent. You are saying I would be better off with a 10x50 of as good of quality as I can get. Partially because of my budget I assume. I believe you are saying it is easier to get better glass in a lower power from most manufacturers usually at that lower price as well.

I did a quick glassing session tonight with my old 12x42 nikons and a cheap pair of 10x42 bushnells - they were both handy. Both cheap binos. Tonight was overcast, dim light, fog, and drizzle. The cheap 10x42's were brighter, easier to focus, and much easier to "see" with. I will probably do another session with the leupold 10x42s and my nikon 8x42s.

I would think a 10x50 would be "brighter" and give better low light performance than the 10x42s. However I don't think an 8x42, which may be brighter still, would make me happy magnification wise.

As I have said, I enjoy the discussion. Have been doing some figuring...lol

Yes, better performance ie clarity, field of view, light, with the same platform/glass in lower magnification. So the balance is magnification vs performance. If you are going to own just one bino for close/long, thick/open, tripod/handheld, 10s would be a better choice than 12s.

If you bump up to the alpha 12s you do get clarity and light with magnification, give up a little in field of view and handheld, might be even or an edge to the 12s... but with a big price.

Having companion binos you can mix things up a bit. I was trying to stay in the 800 dollar/one bino philosophy. Absolutely not one thing wrong with that.

Kent

Perfect!

Thank you sir!

So SLM are you saying here that pretty much everyone you know has gone strictly to a 2 bino set up? 8's / 10's paired with 12's / 15's ? Not using a spotting scope?

I know a few guys recommend that as 2 eye'd viewing is preferred by them.

Thanks,

SC

Yes, most that use multiple optics are using 8/10, 12/15 and a spotter. The majority are 10’s and 15’s.

Obviously terrain, vegetation and species dictates the combo used on each hunt.

I think most would agree with your last sentence. You glass with 2 eyes and verify if needed with a spotter.

Amazing buy and it's a fantastic binocular

*UPDATE*

I decided to get some 10x50's.....but I didn't find any I was willing to pay for. I also decided to step up a little in price. I called Doug at Cameraland and he gave me a good deal on some Kowa Genesis 10.5x44''s. I have been using them already for "practice" and they surely are a step up from the leupold BX-4's I had. The low light performance has been improved as well. All good things in my mind......I also picked up a Really Right Stuff polymer bino cinch to put them on the tripod. Works great.

They do seem to be working..........if I had a tag for this unit, right now he would be #1 on my hit list. A true 5x5 with at least 1 kicker....the front tines on both his back forks is split and almost equal lengths......

Good stuff all the way around 😉

Nice!

Kent

The GPO's get very good reviews for the price. Might also check out the Leica 12 x 50 HD +. Very nice glass with some flourite elements, but pricey ($2700ish).

The Kowa Genesis are also awesome.

Leica Ultravid HD +. Just bought one. Like it alot.