Seems kinda like using a 12” ruler to try to measure something 8 feet long by guessing after the first foot.



Unless everything you measure is a foot or less

I bet that made perfect sense last night.

You, uhhhhh, ever hunted east of the Mississippi?

The OP is the guy who watches a dozen rutting bucks mosey into a privet hedge thicket while he is fiddling with his scope.

Context is pretty important when making a statement like that.

I honestly can’t remember the last buck i shot that wasn’t moving at at least a fast walk.

Longest shot on an elk I’ve ever made I had 10-15 seconds to make the shot from the time I saw him.

Lol……

Based on the last 30 plus years of hunting I am pretty sure I'd do fine with a set and forget scope. I don't own any as I do like dialing in most western situations. So whatever I guess. Sure has been a long winter.

Wait til he learns you can hit something with open sights, the OG set and forget. Those little fuggers are a bitch to dial when deer are pouring through inside 40 yards...

I've made one-shot kills from 400 yards in to less than 20 yards with the same rifle with a "set and forget" scope. I guess some of us can manage with that 12" ruler.

That’s about 12 seconds more than the whitetail buck I shot at about 80 yards this past November as it snuck through a slough full of button willows.

I've set my Leupold VarX-III 2.5x8 on my 30/06 at 3" high 40 years ago. It's killed everything I shot at. Never had to reset or adjust. Use the same 180 grain load for everything. Simple

A 12" ruler is all that is needed to kill stacks a critters in Missouri

30 big game animals so far and numerous coyotes with this particular rifle
Closest was 19 yards, furthest 372.
Haven't touched the scope since dialing it at 200 meters years ago, and it has been on and off the rifle several times, because I like to use the irons as well.
Cat

I set my rifles up for 3-31/2” high (depending on cartridge/load). It’s worked for 40years. Most of the shots have been 3-400yds. I’ve never had an issue at closer ranges even though bullets can be 4-5” high at their zenith. As I think about my hunting, particularly out west, time to range, read the wind and dial would have prevented a majority of my shots. I know my trajectories and wind drifts, but at the ranges I find myself most comfortable with, I find Kentucky windage has worked just fine. While I’ve killed deer, antelope and elk at 600yds plus, i choose not to shoot unwounded animals at those ranges because of difficulty gauging different wind currents, and more importantly, that an animal might move as I squeeze off a shot. Just my experience.

I do own a number of scopes that have the mechanics to dial reliably but have only used them on the range or on prairie dogs.

The wife's 300 win has a Leupold VX3 6x42, with a LRD reticle, on it. The only load shot through this gun is factory Nosler Custom 200 grain accubonds. She has run it for the last 20+ years on elk, bear, and many deer. Our daughter has used it on occasion, as have myself. The gun has not missed a season.

In those 20+ years, during preseason sight verification of a 200 yard zero, the windage cap has been off the scope once....for an adjustment of 2 clicks. The elevation cap has not been removed. This gun cuts holes at 100 yards, everytime.

Her favorite hayfield is 497 yards to the far fence line. The other side of the fence is the bedding area, and owned by someone who allows no hunting OR deer recovery. Any deer along that fence, must be anchored in it's tracks, requiring high shoulder shots. She is 100% on about a dozen deer, along that fence.

Simple scope, simple reticle, and no fussing with knobs or power settings....just a killing machine out to 500 yards.

Andy3

Always a lot of painting with a broad brush on the fire. Where I hunt while not impossible to have a chance to dial but there is generally no time or need.

Translation: “I have a hard time getting within 400 yards of a game animal”

The bigger question is how many holes will it cut...everytime?

2 at a time/year.....times 20+ years.

Andy3

The only rutting buck I shot this year was viewable for maybe 6 seconds total at a bit over 200yds. I shot him when he was one step from being out of sight. This is not uncommon where I hunt. Many of my spots max out at 200-250yds of visibility, so there is no scope fiddling necessary. I also hunt a few spots where I can see 400-500yds and there is more than one way to skin a cat there, be it a flat MPBR (257wby), a BDC reticle, or even dials. I use them all. The nice thing about a BDC or dials is that you aren't forced to employ them until you need them. A couple of my rifles/carbines that never see use past 300yds wear a scope with no drop compensation method other than hold-over and that's fine for the medium-range situations for which they are favored.

Even though many of my scopes have elevation dials for range adjustment, I'm mostly a set and forget hunter as most of my shots are under 300 yards and do not require adjustment. Even though they are "custom" by Leupold based on the cartridge/ballistics, they really need to be tested at range to see how close they actually are to the distance scribed on the turret. I just don't really shoot at longer distances at targets/steel as much as I'd like to, local range limited to 100 yards.

Pretty much my story. I use the same load but swap back and forth between NPT's and I/L's. It's only been 30 years for me though and I finally changed to a new 2.5-8x36 last fall.

I put the first scope scope on my .375 H&H rifle in place of the 1.75x6..

So… pretty much 40 shots have made a ragged hole.

2 shots per year, touching each other.....I call that cutting holes...not a ragged hole. A box car full of dead deer, bear, and elk, out to 500 yards, for proof.

This is not a high volume shooting rig. The ammo is too hard to find, to waste on paper. It has proved itself for a long time, as has the scope.

If your on the prod, and looking to start $hit....go somewhere else.

Andy3

Don’t want to start anything, however sometimes I like to question what I read.

Rick,

Any guesses on come-ups to the downed trees in the background?

Damn Scott how would any of us know, unless you turn around and take a pic. All you are showing us is the foreground.

Or maybe you are facing the other way. These optics forums are hard to keep straight...

Minus 2 clicks.

Yep

Know your rifle and how to shoot it.

WTH did we do before technology took over "hunting"? I guess all the deer and antelope I got dropped dead, laughing at my '06 with a K 2.5 and later a K 4 on top.

The last thing I want to be doing is holding my bourbon, trying to make a shoot on a B&C whitetail AND dialing a dial.

If you use QD rings you can flip your Hubble around backwards for when the deer come in too close. Just don't forget to invert your dope chart with a pocket mirror.

I've killed a lot of deer with iron sights. Quite a few with round nosed bullets, rifled slugs, round balls and even arrows. Haven't had a shot opportunity over 300 yards since 1994. Don't have any need to dial a scope. Only take a range finder with me when I'm gonna be slingin arrows.

I like it!

LMAO!!

I bet ya werent wearin' a stitch of Sitka, Kuiu or First Lite, ....or Kenetreks or Crispis, either.

I've been using variable power scopes for many years. Originally I set them on four and thats where they stayed. Now days the last ten or so years, I have found setting on five works. I don't swap scopes from rifle to rifle. And very seldom have to change the original sight in!

This thread is awesome

Over 20 years

High volume and a master of his domain

You should post pics of your ribbons/trophy’s and that list of accolades you’ve received. Everyone’s impressed.

Pumpkin pie pics at the restaurant sans family for an encore?

I’m trying to get an idea what some mean by set and forget. And even though I like Leopold I don’t find that a great endorsement.

If using the same load, then set and forget should mean they all should land relatively close. When I read two touching every year for 20 years, does that mean one ragged hole. Or does one’s adjust every year until two are touching, and call it good.

Naw. Those entailed dialing drop data and so did the majority of my Long Range Kills.

It’s the way it works for precision

And the list is quite impressive 👍🏼

I’ve taken lots of game from a few feet to over 300 yards with the same set and forget scope, it’s not that hard actually.

Have you ever shot at a target from 500 to 1500 yards?

What does it matter.

That Leupold lost zero on the climb up.

Out to 500 yes prairie dogs and coyotes, hit some miss some but didn’t really matter. I’ve never hunted a game animal I couldn’t get within 300 yards of, and I’ve taken a lot.

There is no place to shoot that far around here. The majority of gun club ranges in the area are 100 yards. The longest in the County is 200 yards. There is a 300 yard range in the next County. Some people actually like to hunt before they shoot. Others simply don't have anyplace in their AO where they can even see game from 500 yards. There are these things called trees/forests that prevent it.

It doesn't mean I don't play around with mediun range, 600 yds, and dial for fun. No thousand yard ranges near. My hunting areas don't require long range tactics. I never got the bug, for long range hunting. Now it's more awesome!😎

Other than he shoots Leupold scopes why the slam on Rick? The Campfire is a "pics or it didn't happen" website. Talk your game without proof, and sooner or later someone is going to jump on your case. He talks LR shooting and backs it up with proof. Looks like if he slammed Leopold, and raved on about the other top end scopes it would all be ok? Ya, that's what it looks like.

Show off your most recent kill, new truck, pics of where you went fishing or hunting. "Yay ,great job!!!!"......Brag on Leupold too much, along with showing proof and giving some [bleep] back in the process, and you go to the colony.

OR hone your skills, know your weapon and your cartridge and you are good to go as far as I care to HUNT an animal..

I've killed animals from point blank to 1200 yards. I've killed the majority of whitetail with a bow under 40 yards. I have long range hunting rifles, long range target rifles, varmint rifles, and short-range timber hunting rifles. I select the right tool for the job.

If you think there is only one tool; you're probably the tool.

Lots of wisdom in this short statement. Well put.

Again....Just what is or are the various individual definitions of set and forget? Myself, if I'm using the same load then it should be very close for each range session or hunt. Consistently off by a couple inches isn't set and forget.

In this case there can be one tool...If you can use it proficiently close and far. Isn't that why they make 3x18, 4x16, 5x25, etc, etc.

Might want to stay on track with the OP.

This thread is not about killing game

It’s about using a scope on a rifle to precisely steer bullets as you would use your calipers or tape to precisely measure, to make impacts on whatever you’re shooting at, any distance

Writing as a refugee from Planet 4MOA, I can tell you that once I learned about Maximum Point Blank Range, its calculation, and its ramifications, I pretty much stopped twiddling scope knobs. Once I get the crosshairs 2 inches above Zero at 100 yards, I'm good to go out beyond 200 yards with most of my deer rifles. Last fall, I made the longest shot at a buck of my life, a whopping 200 yards.

One of the reasons Planet 4MOA evolved the way it did, is because there is no real reason for it not to. If you can go to Walmart and get your new deer rifle zeroed by the counter monkey and go out the next day and shoot a nice buck, who is going to give a rat's patoot about any of this scope falderal. Granted, it was only a 50 yard shot out of a treestand, and with a couple of beers the distance balloons to 150 yards, but a dead deer is a dead deer. Still, 50 yards was as far as a fellow could see in these cedar thickets.

Then if it's just about punching paper or ringing steel, then we are in agreement...

I wouldn't use a 10-50x target scope on a long range hunting rifle that I intended to make a 50 yard shot with. I wouldn't use a high-recoiling long-range hunting rifle for F-Class.

One can most always go to the extreme ends to make a point.

I tried to stay within the boundaries of practicality.

Here in MI I bet 80% of the deer are show within 100 yds

My main place I hunt I sit on the edge of a 40 acre field so I typically stretch my shots quite a bit more
but as Skane posted most Midwest hunters cant see past the trees more than 75 yards?
and there typically is limited time better be ready

I think especially first week of deer season here in MI
the deer get chased and aint stupid if they are the are fawns
not really what we are looking for

Hank

None of those examples are extreme. While a tool can be versatile and have some overlap, it doesn't mean one tool is suited for all things and all people.

You win….

Nothing above implies that one tool cannot cover your needs. Just says that there's more than one way to get the job done. Dialing the scope is certainly fine and sometimes seems best. A set mutidot reticle can also do fine for many things. So, there IS more than one tool available. "My way is the only way" is the mantra of the mental midget. I think the OP was just trolling for a response. Guess it worked.

Your interpretation of the campfire, doesn't equate to mine. Some of us are secure enough in ourselves, we don't feel the need, to brag with pictures, and such. But too each his own.

That's what it is too. Bragging and searching for internet relevance/acceptance to folks you don't know, never will and wouldn't care to. Pitiful idiots.

Like you've never bragged on this site.

LMAO.

There are no skilled carpenters that use a ruler to measure their cuts.

There are plenty of skilled deer hunters that kill piles of deer without dialing.

One simply doesn't have to dial, when hunting from a manure spreader.

What about "I think it's set & I hope it doesn't forget" scopes?

Leaving aside for the moment, picture posting abilities, and back to 'set and forget'...if a shooter really wanted to forget it, I wonder why the Burris posi-lock didn't sell better? Seemed like a good theory...I was just too cheap to pay another 120 bucks for a set screw.

I believe some people found tightening the set screw moved the zero a bit.

^^^Us old Leupold owners were used to burning a lot of ammo before we could "forget".

That's rich coming from you.

🤡🤡🤡

I don't seek internet relevance, acceptance or fame. It isn't important.

This was my experience with the posi-locks…. Twice as much ammo unnecessarily burned as the normal leupold adjust and pray. And in my experience, the glass never compared so there was no upside.

You say one thing, but your behavior screams something else.

Found this thing while organizing some stuff. I forgot I finished in the Top 3 that year!

Good shooting to earn that. I still stand by my comment. Battue interperted his vision of the fire. I didn't agree, thats how it goes!

What scope did you use, and how did you dial it from shot to shot?

Also, nobody who takes long shots brag about their screw ups or walks over the 500-700 yards where the animal was standing to check for blood.

Dang, I knew he was pretty good at shooting clays, but I didn’t know he used a friggin rifle!

It wasn't me who posted pics of animals or lake houses that weren't mine and claimed they were.

That makes two of us. But, unlike you, I have posted pics.

🤡🤡🤡

And you're a perpetual braggart. Your job, promotion, rich wife, lake house, the big money you make. The list is nearly endless. I don't need to impress you. Apparently you have a need.

Oh, but iI was never a famous gunsmith like you. I only know because you felt the need to tell us.

No pics of your work though.

🤡🤡😜

Never claimed to be a famous gunsmith. Said my name was mentioned as co builder of a rifle in a magazine article and it was. Not only are you a proven liar but you exaggerate and make shyt up to suit your story of the day. Just two of many reasons I don't care to impress you.

Have to admit that is a good one!!!!

Participate as you wish...However, there was little interpertation in how I see the the Fire...It was reality. Daily pics and come hunting season they will increase. New gun pics, target pics, camping pics, truck pics, fishing pics, Dog pics, vacation pics. Long written stories of an adventure. And any who tell about their repeated success will eventually be asked for some proof. Pics are not any different than some saying "I killed this many, I've killed this many with this, killed them with a bow, rifle, handgun.”, whatever. If you want to be truthful, writing up about success is little different than actually showing it..Blackheart for example has bragged on about how many Deer he has killed. Iron sight, scopes, etc, etc. He is no different than the rest of us with a bit of A+ personality. Makes no difference if he writes about it or shows pics. Both are a form of bragging. However, one of them is significantly more convincing.

Yeah, I like how posting pics of trophy animals isn’t “bragging”, but posting pics of trophies is

LMFAO

Here I thought this was the “Hunting Optics” forum. I love being able to dial the scope on my 6.5 creedmoor & reach out over 1,000 yards on targets but that isn’t hunting for me.

My range at home is 225 yards but I have an elk vitals sized rock at 500. I don’t own a center fire rifle that can’t consistently hit near the center of the rock with holdover. Will I win a target competition that way? - not hardly. Will I get to eat lots of delicious dead stuff- all day long.

I use a calibrated reticle that is good to 800 but simple holdover is all 90+% of hunters will ever need and is so much faster than dialing its more practical for hunting.

There's more than one way to hunt. Just because I'd have to cut down trees to shoot over 125 yards anywhere on the land I hunt doesn't mean dialing isn't a good options for others hunting elsewhere.

I think this whole thing is being presented backwards. The scopes *I* have that are truly “set and forget” are my Nightforce’s, Zeiss V4’s, etc. IE, the extremely mechanically precise, robust, and stable scopes that I dial to hell and back. A Leupold (say) where a guy needs to check sight-in every year before hunting season and make adjustments to get it back on zero is not set and forget! Where’s the “forget”?! It’s set and reset and reset and reset......

Like daylight saving time. You will always have to readjust your Leupold.

The new long range craze made possible by rangefinders is very technologically interesting & will allow practiced operators the ability to reach way out. That doesn’t change the effects of wind, the stability of rests in the field, or the likelihood of animals moving unexpectedly. Even here on the lunatic fringe most guys won’t shoot many animals past 500 yards.

I know a sniper “instructor” who sets up to shoot bears at 600 yards in steep mountains where recovery is maybe 50% but he gets to brag when he gets one. It’s not my idea of ethical hunting but he wants to be the alpha marksman. Your selection of your tools is your own business- buy a Ferrari to go to the grocery store or a 25x Nightforce to shoot Minnesota Whitetail bucks at 90 yards. But telling me they are necessary is silly.

^^^now that is signature line material par excellence^^^^

My scope needs changed a lot when I moved to the south.

Whitetails in the pines are like elk in the timber but I'm no longer sniping prairie dogs, deer, elk or antelope at distance as I once did.

300 yards across a hay field is as far as I'll be shooting any more so a scope with holdover dots has me covered.

I like to dial the 22 LR rifle but simplifying is working fine for me.

A rangefinder is still nice with the 22s or when I'm hunting a buddies property and I don't know the distances to landmarks across his fields.

Most of my experience tells me that the time from seeing the target animal to acquiring a steady sight picture seldom allows time for fiddle-f***ing around dialing scope turrets.

Even at the typical ranges where a guy would be dialing?

Seems like when I see game 600-800 yards away it usually either isn’t aware of me at all or doesn’t care.

Keep in mind even a guy inclined and equipped to dial can be walking around with their rifle set to MPBZ.... for example it’s as simple as dialing 6 clicks to be 1.5” high at 100 as just a standard, walkaround, “zero”. Does that make sense? So my scope is zero’d at 100 yards; if the dial is at zero, then bullet impacts are dead on at 100. But if I want to have the advantages of max point blank zero I can just click it up 6 clicks and be “zeroed” 1.5” high at 100. But my drop chart is still correct... because my scopes zero point is still the same (100 yards).

Sorry if I’m being annoying, I’ve tried to explain this in years past and failed so I’m trying to say it multiple ways here. In the context of this thread, when you trust your scope it ain’t no thang to dial it around like that. Whereas the set and forget guys get real spooky about it... “don’t touch that dial!”, haha.

I found a target out on my loading bench the other day from when I first got my NF SHV and built my 6.5 SAUM. I did a test with it where I zeroed at 100, fired a single shot, dialed it like crazy, then back to zero, fired a single shot, repeat 5 times. So, the group is at the bullseye at 100 yards, but each shot has a ton of dialing between it and the previous shot. The 5-shot group is around .7”. That’s the kind of mechanical precision/repeatability us “dialers” are talking about.

That’s wonderful. But I don’t need it and you can keep the extra weight, complexity, and bulkiness associated with those scopes. It just isn’t something that is useful for my hunting.

Exactly. If someone enjoys trying to knock some paint off a metal gong at 1000 yards then great. If that puts lead in your pencil and keeps you excited about life then more power to you. But I have never had any interest in it. It holds no appeal to me whatsoever. I primarily use my scoped rifles for hunting and the longest shot I have had to take on a game animal in the last 25 years is about 225 yards. So I don't need one of these Hubble sized monstrosities with dialing knobs the size of an Aztec burial mound for my hunting purposes either.

So it gets pretty old reading these posts by elitist douche bags who act like anyone not using the same type scope they are and for the same purposes is some kind of know nothing goober. No, I just have no use for a long range dialing scope. How hard is that to comprehend?

When it comes to purchasing a truck I could buy a dump truck if I needed one. But I don't so I just stick with a regular pickup truck.

Finally, I always recheck the zero on my hunting rigs prior to season because it's just the responsible thing to do. But I have never had any problem with any of them staying zeroed from season to season.

Well said !!!!!!

When I hit the range I am continually adjusting up and down, with both the front and rear sights- but then, I rarely shoot at targets wit a scope! :>)
Cat

I don't dial because I have.Leupolds on my Big Game rifles. They don't adjust as advertised so I wouldn't count on them to dial. I just aim high on the deer if they are too far to hold dead on. I have been successfup doing Kentucky windage. I did swap one Leupold out this year for a.Trijicon. anxious to see how it does.

I did the same thing. I'm real happy with my Trijicon Credo.

Humility is one of the finest qualities a man can possess.

Scorn for others is rarely seen by most as a positive quality.

A lot of these guys don't get that or don't want to get that Jeff. They even get pissy when you show them a good reasonably priced scope and hunting rifle that will work much better than most Leupolds, but cost far less. They just don't want to hear it.



Set your zero, so it's actually "zeroed":


Then test it at range, using the ballistic plex reticle:



That is the kind of "set and forget" I like in a hunting rifle. Kentucky windage was cool when I was a kid, but they have good reticles these days that take the guess work out of it. You just have to confirm them by using them and setting them up properly.

Good illustration of what a ballistic plex reticle is capable of! I’ve used a VX Leupold of one kind or another so equipped since they came out years ago, and in spite of having several very reliable “dialing” type scopes I find this type reticle much faster and easier to use while hunting. Easy enough to use a bit of hold over or under for the in between ranges.

Hunters who sight in at 200+ & have familiar, practiced ballistic reticles have the ability to make instantaneous longer range shots. Are they always required on animals at 400+ yards? Not really. The last elk I tried to find antlers on at 490 yards didn’t know I was there - she was huge & looked delicious but my cow tag wasn’t good on that side of the highway. The cows before that gave me much less time.

I use a flat shooting 300 Weatherby sighted in at 225 yards. This puts my hash marks on perfectly out to 800 yards on the Conquest 3-15x50 at 15 power. But for everything under 350 yards that is a simple point & shoot.