As above. Swarovsky, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, etc. I might not enjoy the price I'm a tightwad. But I bought a used high quality 4X Euro scope made in Germany and it performs better than most scopes I have ever owned. Crepuscular performance is just what I wanted.
TIA. RZ.

If you want maximum light transmission in dark conditions, why limit to 4x? Your pupil maxes out at ~7mm, so a front objective of 28 mm is all you can "take advantage of" (pardon the dangling participle).

you are better off with a 6 x 42mm, 7x50mm, or of course 8x56mm.

Unless you really NEED a 4x, consider a 6 x 42MM of good quality. Don't forget Docter Optic/Noblex, or IOR. I have a Sightron Big Sky II 6x42, and it is very good in low light. Not made anymore (made in USA to boot), but they are out there. If it has to be 4x, the Weaver Classic (Japan) 4x38mm is a bright scope, without breaking the bank, but eye relief is only ~3.3".

You can go variable with various 2-7x or 3-9/10x scope with 40-42mm objectives and set them for 4x-6x.

Higher magnification with matching max exit pupil of 7mm combined with the "Inverse-Square law" explains why higher magnification yields higher brightness (brightness is proportional to the Inverse of square of the distance... a very powerful relationship).

Bob Bell wrote an excellent piece on this topic years ago in Guns Digest. 6x42 and 8x56 scopes were the pragmatic best for low-light conditions (8x56 much better than 6x... because of the inverse square of the distance. It brought the image closer 8x/6x ... as similar why 6x is brighter than 4x.. 6x/4x. Then compare 8x/4x... HUGE increase in brightness).

This 4x36 does what I want. 6x seems a bit much and I don't want the weight of a variable. I really like my old Redfields in 2 to three power. A 6x42 might work if I were shooting my NULA in 308. I'm using a 300 BO bolt gun quietly. Thanks for the science. Always helps to get the details right. RZ.

Karl Kaps.

Swift makes a solid 4x40. made in korea.

Might be a quality scope, but you’re not likely to get one:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...7884327/a-kaps-order-update#Post17884327

They're 30mm not 1" , in case you wanted 1"

If you’re considering a 6x the Kahles is the cats ass but really hard to find. The S&B is great too but heavy. The Meopta is really good and much easier to find. The Kaps is a great scope too but heavy.

Look for a meopro. It shouldn’t break the bank and is the best bang for the buck in the higher end 6x scopes.

Meopta comes from which distributors? ... Dismiss brand new. It is discontinued. Maybe I can switch to 6x42 and find an NOS. RZ.

The difference between the Artemis, which I think they still make, is a steel tube vs aluminum in the meopro. Same glass.

A few comments:

I have a Karl Kaps 6x42--which as noted is a 30mm scope. It weighs 18 ounces, so I doubt a 4x would be much lighter.

The Weaver 4x38 is discontinued, though they can be found used now and then.

What are your thoughts on the kaps compared to s&b and leupold 6x42?

I've always wanted a good 8x fixed. It sounds like 56 mil is the right objective size but I also like my scopes mounted low. Would an 8x44 work out OK or would a bigger objective add a lot? In 2004 at shotshow I asked LOW for a prototype of a fixed 8x44 with mil reticle and mil adjustments. I was running a lot of 6x42 leupolds back then but wanted a bit more power with repeatable turrets.

As a broke MBA student I didn't have the cash for the prototype and 500 piece minimum order per sku. However their rep did like my idea of matching the reticle to the adjustments. At that time most mil dot reticle ones had moa adjustments. It amazed me how long it took most optics companies to figure out why that sucked.

I then looked at chinese options having just returned from a summer over there but of course Steven the rep for vector/sun optics in China promptly took notes of all my ideas and then gave my first prototype to a guy named Garth in Utah and burned my deal down. He owns the much loathed davidson defense in provo now.

Now vector/sun builds some of the fires favorite chinese scopes. I told them repeatability was key in 2004 and suggested chryrogenically treatment stainless precision machined for all adjustment internals. I also aaked them to soutce schotts new glass factory in China. They told me they produced better glass thee than in Europe because of the European crack down on lead. I had some good ideas back then but didn't have the cash to get them rolling. I was big on mil/mil and ffp and those are still tough for some so maybe the time wasn't right.

Bb

Are the later multi-coated Leuoplds not high quality enough? They seem very nice to me.
Rex

EDIT: Not the question you're asking I guess, since they aren't making them now. But they are available if they'll meet your needs.

I still like fixed power rifle scopes and love the simplicity and durability of them. Of course, that view is a thing of past because now everything newly made today is a variable. Thank god you can find plenty of the fixed power rifle scopes used. Even when I use a variable scope , it is often left on 4x or 6x and is hardly ever dialed up to max power.

It's excellent, with very bright, sharp optics and very repeatable and precise adjustments.

Actually yes...I am.

Good for you! All my research indicated they're a great scope. The 4x classic was not as light as a leupold, but not horribly heavy either. They lost my interest however when I had to wait so long without delivery and they get my CC fraud people involved just to get my promised refund.

Edit to add: What reticle did you go with? The invarient looked great for the woods hunting I do.

I cheated, I have had it for a while and haven't had the need for it yet.

German number 4.

I have used a Fixed for 45 years.....Leupold, Swarovski and S&B. As proof in the field, I see no difference between them......Darrel Wick

Hi Rustyzipper,

I am an ardent user of 4x riflescopes! Currently I have:

Hensoldt Diasta 4x32 from the sixties. Ret 4 original. Steel tube 26 mm, non centered reticle, elevation adjustment only. In my DWM Sporting 7x57 M1893 with a Redfield base and rings.
Zeiss Diatal DA 4x32 from the seventies. Ret 1 original. I bought it new. Light alloy one piece body 26 mm, non centered reticle double adjustments. In my M1935 Argentine Mauser-Werke with 7x57 barrel. With a custom made bases machined on the action and Warne Premier steel rings. The reticle is almost centered, with some minimum adjustments nedeed, no noticeable!
Redfield Bear Cub 1" tube. Duplex reticle. Now as a spare scope for anything...
Zeiss Diatal ZA 4x32 *T. From the eighties. 26 mm one piece alloy tube. R4 centered reticle. This ZA series from the late ´70s was the first Zeiss scopes with centered reticles.
Schmidt & Bender 4x36 from the nineties. Steel tube 26 mm. Centered R4 reticle double adjustment, multicoated glases.
Meopta Artemis 2000, 1" steel tube, centered R4 reticle.

All are great scopes. If I should chose one of all those, well, would be a tie between the Zeiss ZA and the S&Bender. Outstanding scopes!!!!

I have had in my hands a Nickel 4x36, one of the last ones, Ret 1 26 mm light alloy one piece tube. Incredible scope!!
Also a Kahles Helia C 4x36 Ret 4 1" light alloy one piece tube.

This Kahles Helia C from the 2005, is my absolute favorite of ALL 4x scope I have, have had or have seen. Period!

As far as I know, the only two 4x riflescopes offered right now are the semi custom Kaps 4x36 30 mm one piece alloy tube. Can be ordered with R1 or R4.
And the other, I don´t know if it is still in production, the IOR 4x36. Steel 1" tube. Veeery similar as the S&Bender 4x36.

In the used market, there are the NIKON 4X40, Weaver 4x38, Leupold 4x33 of course, and some others.

Good luck!

PH

There was a SIGHTRON SII 4x33 it was very compact with really good optics and I believe 4” eye relief. The only problem I had with it was that it had very finicky eye box. You had to be exactly proper eye position or the image would start to blink out.

I have a Hawke Vantage fixed 4x. Mine has an adjustable objective (AO). I have it on a CZ 527 223 Rem. Got it for well under $100. Very bright. Excellent resolution. Lifetime warranty. They make a non-AO version. I really like mine, and have been very pleasantly surprised, if not downright impressed with it. Click w/e adjustments. 11 layers of lens coatings. I think it does very well in low light conditions.

https://us.hawkeoptics.com/vantage-4x32-3030.html

I have a used S&B 4 X 36 #4 retical. It is 26 mm tube and I don't have it mounted yet. Will get it going soon and see what it is like. After all your input I am looking for a high quality 6x42 scope next. Thanks, RZ.

Check with Doug @ cameralandny! I bought 3 meopta Artemis 6x from him. Not sure of current availability though.

A couple of weeks ago, someone tried to sell a Leupold 4x33 in the classifieds with no takers if that's of any interest:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...s/18870174/leupold-fx-ii-4x33-price-drop

If I was in the market the wide duplex reticle it has would kill my interest.

I have two new spare Kaps 4 x 36 they weigh 14.7 oz. I ordered and waited for them.
My Kahles 4 x 36 weighs in at 12.2 oz.

Lots of good information here.

My limited experience and 2 cents worth. I have a long fondness for fixed 4x scopes. Best of the bunch is the S&B 4x36 and a very close second is the IOR 4x32. The best value in fixed 4x scopes without a doubt is the Weaver Grand Slam 4.75 with the Nikon Monarch close. Best budget 4x is the old Nikon Buckmaster model.

I have never owned a Kahles, but I handled a 2x7 at a gun show way back when and was impressed in the glass and how light and handy it was.

When CDNN Investments were selling the Kahles 2 -7 x 36, I bought 5 centerfire and 2 rimfire models. And 1 Kahles CL 3-9 x 42 w/AO.

The 2-7 weight 12.3 oz and the 3-9 x 36 Swaro weighs 12.0 oz. For a modern scope, I go to the Swaro 3-9 x 36 and set it at 3x.

And how many of us are regretting not jumping on those when they were bargain priced!