I know it has been talked to death, BUT is the Huskemaw scope worth the money with its bullet drop compensation built in to the turret? what about quality? An is there another scope that does all this?

Overpriced turd in a overblown wrapper.

FAR better, available for FAR less.

Mostly a marketing gimmick. Lots of better scopes out there.

what are the good ones out there?

S&B
Zeiss
Swarovski
Leupold
Nikon
Sightron

Most of those are equal to or less in price than the Huskemaw garbage.

I don't believe that the Huskemaw is either a turd or garbage.
I have had one for about a year now and it is now on a 338L Imp. shooting 300 SMK's and now is doing just fine

xp, have you compared it side by side to comparably priced quality optics? I am curious as to your results.

The Huskemaw scopes run easily well over $1k, from the two dealers that are closely associated with the Huskemaw company; all of whom are rather closely located in Wyoming.

That puts you well over Sightron SIII range, over Nikon Monarch SF LR range, over Leupold VX-3 range, into Leupold Mark IV territory, into IOR, Meopta, Swarovski, Ziess, and nearly to Leica and S&B range. Heck, it's about more than 75% to NightForce and about 50+% to USO range. Any of those listed less expensive EASILY equal, and the rest EASILY best the Huskemaw stuff.

I've seen enough of them at ranges where the comparable, and often lesser priced glass is run side-by-side, and the Huskemaw stuff loses in nearly every category I can think of. The "turrets" they hype on so much are tuned to one load; good luck if you change loads, every. MOA turrets trump that handily. The glass falls far behind in clarity, brightness, resolution, and edge-to-edge crispness, the adjustments aren't nearly as positive as I'd prefer or can get through better scopes.

Check a few other dedicated shooting and long-range sites as well as some of the optical and specialized shooting sites for verification. I'd suggest "sniper's hide", for one, and possibly some of the benchrest shooting sites and opticstalk. I'd also check the list of winners at recognized LR competitions for what they use; hint: Huskemaw won't be there. Oh, and the site "longrangehunter.com" is run by the same guys hawking the Huskemaw scopes; the only things you'll get there are their sales pitches.

Ask them, specifically, where the scope is manufactured and by what company; ergo, what the warranty is and how and by whom it'll be repaired if/when it breaks. Compare that to the other scopes in the $1k+ range, and see if that fits.

BTW - the xphunter above is Ernie Bishop; the only person that Huskemaw would allow to "officially" review their scopes, and it's interesting that his "official review" differs so starkly from so many "unofficial reviews".

I stand by my earlier statements, and the ones in this post.

I can't warm to ANYTHING associated with that stupid show on TV.

"xphunter" is my old user name since I do most of my shooting and hunting with single-shot XP-100's.
There are several sites that I have not changed my user name to "Ernie" yet. The reason for the change is a dealership for shooting product that has no glass in it and is no way connected to Huskemaw or the LRH site.

The NF is made by the same company that makes Huskemaw, that is why there is such a similarity.
Both are made by the premium OEM manufacture in Japan.
NF assembles there optic in the US and to my knowledge Huskemaw does not.
At first some people thought NF was making the Huskemaw since their box shape is identical on the outside.
If anyone really has a question about the Huskemaw optic I would encourage you to call 307.587.2787 and ask your questions directly.

I have compared it to other scopes. I do not claim to be a optics guru by any stretch, but I did some comparisons with other scopes (Mark 4, VX-3, NF NXS, and a S-3 Sightron) on a ranch on game at medium and ranges beyond 1,000 yards.
The big surprise/disappointment for me in the comparison was not the Huskemaw.

VAnimrod, it seems that this topic is personal to you, as if someone has hurt you.
There is some distance between Gillette and Cody.
In fact, I have never been to Cody, and I am not a dealer for Huskemaw.
I didn't get paid for the article either.

Not personal, I just find it amazing that the only positive reviews on the Huskemaw scopes are from folks associated or affiliated with the "best of the west" group, whereas the rest of the unofficial reviews (and my own experience) put them as over-priced, under-performing marketing gimmicks. What I don't like is seeing folks get ripped off by marketing blitzes and over-priced goods of marginal quality. All of which I find embodied in the Huskemaw scopes, actually, scope, since it seems that they still only have one version.

Name the company that produces both the NF and the Huskemaw. If it's HAKKO, just say it, but beating around the bush won't do much for the advertising. And, assembly of the Huskemaw is where, again? And, their customer service is what, again?

FWIW, if assembly is not done by the same company that build NF, then Huskemaw is not made by the same company that makes NF. They may source parts from the same company, but if that's the case, the same can be said of a LOT of mid and lower tier companies on the market, and that's really not much of a recommendation. It's what parts, whether they parts are the same, and whether they are put together as well and by the same company that counts. On each of those points, I HIGHLY doubt (and in fact on the last one am certain that it's not) that it's the same company that NF uses. Nice try, though.

I'd actually encourage folks to put their hands on, and eyes behind a Huskemaw scope and run it side-by-side with another scope of known quality.

The differences will be apparent, and quickly.

If folks do call, ask specific questions, such as the internal range of adjustment on both windage and elevation, such as the return/repair/warranty policy, such as location (as in nation) in which the scopes are assembled and where any repair work would be done, such as what happens if you change load or switch the scope to another rifle re: their BDC turrets, such as what precise optical standards their scopes are built to, and what tests are used and what are the results of those tests (this ought to come back with a LOT of technical optics speak, if it's actually done).

Check Huskemaw's website, and their reasons why they are better than the competition. Their ONLY claims are to the BDC turrets and their reticle. That's it. Nothing on optical quality of the glass, durability of the scope, warranty, nothing else but the gimmicks. Gimmicks which, if they want to be honest about it, can be found on or added to at very little cost to just about any scope out there. Kenton Industries can build, and does build, comparable turrets for most scopes, and the reticle is a take-off on many other range-finding reticles on the market, such as Leupold's VH or B&C, Sightron's VHR, and similar others as well. Not a great differentiation when the "stuff" doesn't make the difference in the field; the glass does, and esp. when the "stuff" can be equaled or bestest by numerous competitors with better scopes.

Never insinuated that you got paid for the article, but you're pretty quick on the defense of that.

You and I disagree on this one, Ernie. Good luck with that Huskemaw.

If that company is around in 10+ years, and has a track-record to match the price and the hype, and they've improved the quality of their scopes to match the same, then MAYBE they'll be worth it. Until then, I can't see rolling the dice on sup-par optics with no track record and a near-alpha glass price tag.

Of course, YMMV.

I did look through one recently at the SCI-Reno show. I can't speak for the range work, but the optics are average at best, and paled in comparison to the Swaro Z3,S&B summit, and Zeiss Victory glass I looked through.

did huskemmaw not steal this idea from Greybull?

A friend of mine has a Huskemaw. I've checked it out a few times and would have to say the glass was on par with a VX-III that I had just purchased, maybe a little better since the objective was a lot larger. I liked the reticle with the crosshairs for windage and have to say I wish Leupold would offer this. That said, my thoughts were they are an ok scope. I wouldn't spend the money on one, but I wouldn't buy a USO or NF or Swaro either.

Is it overpriced? Maybe, but my buddy sure is happy with everything about it. Is it a hunk of junk? Doesn't seem that way to me. It performs its function well. Now he could have saved some money going with something else, and could have been just as happy. I am positive that some guys don't like the show and just want to slam the scope because of it. Otherwise the response to questions about Huskemaw would read "They are just ok, for the money check out XYZ"

Too much drama surrounding a rifle scope. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I would have to agree...

FWIW, I've never seen the show. Haven't owned a TV in over 10 years.

VAnimrod. Not pointing fingers at anyone imparticular. Just an observation about Huskemaw haters. Have you used a Huskemaw? My friends' works as advertised and has got him shooting a whole lot more than he used to. It has made him a better more confident shooter.

Now for me, I just ordered a Leupold CDS and will work up loads over the chrony, use the iPhone with Ballistic and do my own homework. It's what I enjoy doing. But some guys don't care to spend the time doing the homework and just want to spend time pulling the trigger. Thats cool with me. The Huskemaw guys found a niche in the market and have capitalized on it.

I remember years ago, my Uncle John was super pissed at Windows for home computers. Seems he spent years programing with DOS and then Windows comes out and everybody is an expert computer geek overnight. Can't help but wonder if this is the same thing going on here.

ho hum just get leupold to make a custom etched turret for whatever you accuracy load is, if you have a turret you don't need a fancy reticle. spend the extra $700 on other stuff.

Buy a 30 mm Tube Leupold with MI or M2 adjustments add the Mid Dot, BC or Varmint reticule and you have all the scope you will ever need for long range shooting. The Huskemaw i can't say one way or the other if they are good or bad but i will say, no way i would pay the money they sell them for based on a bias TV Show that only shows the kills and not the misses. Lots of good scopes out there and a few really great one so pick careful after you do lots of research.

Amen, brother.

can you get a leupold with milrad turrets? can you get a leupold with zero stop?

BRU

Understood, and I can see how that is possible, and good for your friend. I just find them (and yes, as stated, I've looked through them and compared them on ranges against other scopes) to be inferior optically and mechanically to anything else in the price range and a lot of stuff out there for a lot less.



Where we disagree is not so much that they've found a niche, is that they've found a marketing gimmick and are selling an inferior product at greatly inflated prices based upon marketing, only. Basically, I just think that they folks that buy those scopes because they watch some show without comparing the glass to the other, far better, stuff out there are getting ripped off.

You can get Leupolds with zero stops, easily. As for mil-rads; try MOA via the M1, M3, or CDS turrets, or you can go through their custom shop and have a turret built for your specs/load.

I'm not a turret twister or mil-dot, ballistic plex guy. If I were, I think VA makes an excellent point. If in fact the Huskemaw is dialed in to a specific load ( he says it is and I believe him), then it is of little use if you change, tweak, or try out new loads, correct? If so, that would be a deal killer for me in spite of the inferior glass.

You can also get a turret set-up with 1/3 MOA clicks if you want to have a dial that can do for load switching or from gun to gun.

It's calibrated to one load, at one velocity, with one projectile, at one elevation, one average humidity...etc.

Change anything that affects a change in vertical impact and that knob is useless. They'll happily make you another knob for a silly amount of money...

It's so much easier to twist turrets.

Do they build the Huskemaw for the Military to use on their sniper rifles?

I'm sure they do if you ask the right person. LOL

They're not near big enough of an operation for that.

No, I have never heard of that.

thanks, guys. I learned something here.

[quote=VAnimrod

Not personal, I just find it amazing that the only positive reviews on the Huskemaw scopes are from folks associated or affiliated with the "best of the west" group, whereas the rest of the unofficial reviews (and my own experience) put them as over-priced, under-performing marketing gimmicks.[/quote]

I am not associated or affiliated in any way with Huskemaw and/or The Best Of The West but I do own a Huskemaw as well as various Leupold's, Sightron and Swarovski's. Have had my Huskemaw for about a year and a half. The Huskewaw came originally with a 1/3 MOA turret and I used it for give or take 500 rounds with this original turret. You can use your iphone or pocket PC just like any other scope with this turret. You can then get a custom turret built if you like at no charge (Now it's 2 different turrets)for a specific load, elevation etc. You can change these turrets out in less than 1 minute with a coin. I was confident enough with this scope that I used it exclusively this past hunting season and took 3 antelope, 2 deer, 1 elk, as well as a Big Horn ram that took 29 years to draw a tag. The Huskemaw saw 18 days on a 4 whlr. and 10 days on a mule and never once lost it's original POI. It has a lot of plusses with the most important to me being a 5 and 10 mph wind hold on the reticle as well as having a built in range finder that I have found to work very well out to 600 yds. on all my testing and practicing. If there is a down side it is the Huskemaw is heavier than most other scopes - very comparable in weight to the NF I have used. Optics clarity in my opinion is in the eye of the beholder but it would be like comparing ford to chevy to dodge. I realize they are relatively a new product compared to other scopes and I was very leary for quite a while. I personally took the time to go to their office in Cody and to their shop in Burlington before I made the plunge. I found them to be very professional as well as informative and at this point I have not found ANY ITEM in which I had been misled. Quite the opposite in the fact that the guys in the Huskemaw shop even taught this old codger a trick or two. I don't normally do much posting on any of the sites but thought comments like "They are a turd" wasn't being fair to a product or a bunch of pretty decent guys. I see a very long association with this scope if the first year and a half are any indication but I'll still keep using my Leo's, Sightron's and Swaro's also.

"Name the company that produces both the NF and the Huskemaw. If it's HAKKO, just say it, but beating around the bush won't do much for the advertising. And, assembly of the Huskemaw is where, again? And, their customer service is what, again?"

If the company that produces the Huskemaw scopes is the same as NightForce, wouldn't that be Light Optical? I'm pretty sure that is who makes the NF stuff. I could be wrong.

In the intrest of full disclosure, I sell all of the brands listed here, with the exceptions of Sightron and Huskemaw. I have friends who own Huskemaw scopes, I have used them, and they work as advertised.

If the features make you happy, and the price makes sense to you, you don't need anyone else to justify it for you. Buy what you want.

I agree that Huskemaw does a good job of marketing thier stuff. Does this make it better? Not really, but it makes people feel good about spending the money on one. Look at Swarovski-easily the best marketing (and best selling) of any of the 'big 3' optics houses. I much prefer both Zeiss and Leica to Swaro when it comes to binos, but I sell WAY more Swaros because that's what people want.

What is the Huskemaw's warranty coverage?

From Huskemaw's website:

"All Huskemaw products come with a lifetime guarantee. "

Pretty vague.

The only reason I will periodically watch "Best of the West" is to make sure I'm not buying ANYTHING associated with that show.

How far were these shots? Be honest now.......

I personally have no isue with what they do on that show. it is good entertainment value, and it shows what proper training can accomplish. here loooong shots are like 200 yds, so the distances they are hitting is pretty neat to see, and to thier credit, they do very much stress the proper training and equipment, and only taking shots that they are sure they can hit and yes, I have watched and seen them pass on shots, so I am correct in that statement.

As to the rest of the show it it is nothing more than a sales pitch. yes, I did go the website and poke around, but there is not way I would shell out what they want for the gun and scope combo setup for just one load. For that amount I could go on a guided hunt, and have moo-lah left over to spend on the wife.

As to the scope alone, I noticed all the above at the site without ever seeing one - thanks so much for the confirm from VA Nimrod and the rest of you. I also think it would be better to order a $600-$800 scope and quality mounts, and put the rest of the money into ammo and practice time (plus a dinner out with the wife to keep her happy - all about balance you know) and you would likely be the equal or better fo the guy who did spend all that money 'just' to get a Huskemaw.

My .02

My buddy has a Huskemaw scope and he is a very discriminating shooter. It sits on a several thousand dollar long range rifle. Huskemaw has a very easy and simple long range setup. Pick your poison, have the turrets made and be done with it. It is set up in YARDS so it doesn't require much more than reading the rangefinder and dialing the turret marked in yards. For the AVERAGE guy, this is a lot better and easier than using a computer or a chart etc. As far as clarity, it is easilly as good if not better than any of my VX3s including my long range version. Is it as good as a VX7- I have no idea, I don't have one nor know anyone who does. Leupold has a lot of overpriced stuff these days.

My buddy has his on a 300 RUM and has shot several 1000 yd groups under 10" with it The rifle weighs 8# or so ( has a carbon wrapped barrel- ABS) He says tracking is perfect. He settled on a load with 210 JLKs and never looked back. Took it to Mexico twice and all over southwest.

I don't think it is a "gimmick" but rather a niche item. Darrel Holland's scopes are more expensive and just have his weird reticle in them. Anything could be a gimmick.

All this said, they are not for me- I am a guy that is always changing and trying new stuff. If I were very wealthy and could buy multiple long range rifles and just put dedicated scopes on them, I might consider the Huskemaw. Right now I am using Mark IVs, VX3 LR and Burris Signatures and they are working out just fine. I have resisted these others because they are also quite heavy.

Don't be afraid of the Huskemaw, they are good scopes, just maybe not for everyone.

Dennis,

Darrel Holland puts his "weird" reticle in Leupold, Nightforce and Schmidt & Bender scopes. It's in the first focal plane so the aiming points are valid on any magnification. It costs about $350 over the basic price of the scope itself, whether a Leupold VX-3 or a Schmidt & Bender. The scopes can also be cranked up and down. I have used the weird ART reticle a lot over the past few years and consider it (and the general system) to be among the best for long-range shooting.

You might also like to know that I am in the process of testing a Leupold VX-7 2.5-10x. Haven't gotten done with all the tests but have done my night-chart optics test, and it ranks right in there with the new Leica and only a smidgen behind an S&B Summit. In fact I have to give all three scopes the same 8 rating on my chart, which is as high as any scope has tested.

One doe antelope at 705 yd., sheep at 375 yds. across a draw, deer at 325 - everything else I never moved the turret off the 200 yd zero. By the way the elk was at max --maybe 50 yds. Only reason on the antelope was the conditions were perfect, I was prone on a bipod with rear rest - and quite frankly - with all the practicing I had done I just wanted to see if I could do it. I do not consider myself a long range hunter - but I am capable if I have to be. I'll crawl on my belly for an hour if I think I can get closer on anything.
I have used the hold over methods, various distance reticles such as the B&C on Leo and BR reticle on Swaro as well as turrets with a pocket PC. What interested me in the Huskemaw is their simplicity and because of the conditions I hunt in here in Montana (2 day pack trip into elk camp on horseback) and god only knows what temp and amount of snow which varies from year to year. We had 3 ft. of fresh snow 2 years ago in camp and the temp never broke above 0 F. After two days I might as well have used my pocket PC for whatever because it was dead (I did have my cheat sheets as backup). After many years of trying to get more electronic and fancy stuff I'm now trying to find ways to get rid of it. If it's electric/digital - it'll malfunction sometime. I really like things that are simple - maybe that's because my engineering degree says Murphy is always just around the corner.

That turret is still only accurate for one load, under similiar atmospheric conditions. You noted that the weather can vary widely where you hunt. You probably wouldn't notice it until you got out to longer ranges, but I bet you would notice it. A load is not going to shoot to the same POI if you go from 70 degrees to -10 degrees.

John, That is good to hear about the Leupold V7, it's nice to hear that the Americans are actually making something special. I looked at Darrells scopes and agree that for a reticle-based long range system, his seemed very good but after much testing and discussions with others, decided that the reticle systems are not as effective beyond 500 yds as actually moving the crosshairs. I have B&C reticles on several scopes with turrets. I can use the aiming lines for medium range shots and crank in the elevation for the real long stuff. This is working out for me.

What is the suggested retail price of the VX-7?

All you have to do is put the original 1/3 MOA turret back on and use your PC or range cards. Just because you have a turret built for one, two or however many elev., Pressures, temp. etc. doesn't mean you cannot fall back on the original turret that can be used with any load under any conditions and you determine what to dial in by using an outside source. I have tested my higher elevevation turret from 0 degrees to 30 degrees and 6500' to 8000' (Never gets any warmer up there) and I'm good to 800 yds. I would agree with you 100% on going any longer without using a PC and incorporate all atmospheric conditions. One season experience and only a hand full of kills does not fall into my class as being proven but so far it is very encouraging.

Depending on the model, they can be had from $1200-$1300 it looks like.

Precisely, ANY scope can fit the bill if we're talking about conventional turret use. Kenton industries will make you a laser-engraved knob for one load. Kenton Industries has been producing load-specific knobs long before Huskemaw came along. So, what makes the Huskemaw scope special? Is it comparable to other scopes in the $1000 ~ $1300 range? From what I've heard, the answer is no, the Huskemaw scope is over-priced.

Dennis,

Most of Darrel's scopes are set up to use both the ART reticle and turrets. You use the reticle out to whereve you feel comfortable and then start twirling. It's not an either/or system. That's why he puts them in (among others) Leupold Mark 4's and Nightforces. And at any range you want to use a reticle, it's much more flexible than any factory reticle I've seen, plus there's the factor of being in the FFP.

Well that would make them about perfect then. Didn't realize he had turrets too! I think that is the best of both worlds myself.

How is any of these "designer" reticles any better than a MOA or Mil reticle?

jwp,

The Holland ART reticle is a mil-based reticle, but combined with MOA. It's also very user-friendly, unlike many reticles that are just marks in the field of view. Take a look at the website www.hollandguns.com and you'll have a better idea.

Plus it's in the FFP.

The Holland reticle really is pretty neat. It's like having turrets on your scope that you dont need to move. The hash marks and dotz below the cross hairs represent MOA. The computer program supplied is a combination of Hollands and Sierra infinity.
Basically determine your bullet and velocity as well as other parameters and plug into the computer and get the hold over for each range you want to shoot. For example my .300WSM with a 180 @ 3000 requires 10 MOA hold over to be on at 500. Just look through the scope, find the 10MOA dot and fire. Make a chart for each range and tape it on the stock and your GTG. Like anything else the proof is in the shooting. I found my .300 was shooting a little high at 500 with that setting so I used the 9.5 dot and it was right on. Fired at 300, 400, and made minor adjustments in hold over. recorded the changes and fired each yardage again. Dead on at each range. Total flexibility and the precision of a turret. so simple. No turrets to twirl. It takes less time to actually do it than it does to describe the process.

I have two Leupies modified so far and one thing I noticed for sure is when the scopes came back they seemed to be clearer and have better resolution. If you move the scope to another rifle just re run the program with the new parameters and use the corresping dots.

Darrel Holland is a nice guy and will talk you through any questions or percieved problems.

Lefty C

John,

Does Holland only install his ART reticle in Leupold, S&B and NF?

Does the ART reticle voild leupold's lifetime guarantee?

Magnumdood,

That I'm not sure about. I do know he sells Leupold, NF and S&B scopes with the reticles installed.

k3yston3,

That I'm not sure about either.

The person to ask about all these things is Darrell.

Not John,

But when I spoke with Darrel he was installing the reticles in Leupold and S & B only. Actually he does not install the reticles they go back to Leupold. He has a patent on the design/system and Leup does the install. Not sure about S & B. I was told the the full Leupold warrenty applies. He may install in NF, I thought he said not.

Lefty C

He doesn't install any of them, it is my understanding from talking to Leupold and others, that they do it themselves. Leupold told me that if I want to design a reticle, they will manufacture it and install it for me too (for about $10,000 initial fee).

A few years ago I wanted a reticle that let me shoot out to 1000 yds. After serious discussions with a couple of engineers at both Leupold and Swarovski, I felt that it was the consensus feeling in the industry that much over 500-600 yds required too much input to rely on the coarse adjustments available simply by a reticle. I have never seen a 1000 yd competition shooter (that is competitive) yet that didn't have turrets and use them!

Maybe I am just too old fashioned but I would have to "see" to believe.

Dotz and similar systems are great for hunting and getting on target quickly, but for competition turrets are the only way.

LC

When I said that Darrell installs the reticles, I meant that he has them installed.

He has listed Nightforce along with Leupold & S&B on his website for about the past year.

Once again, even Darrel does not suggest that ONLY the reticle be used for long-range shooting. Most of the scopes he offers are also designed for turret-twisting.

MD,

I stand corrected..I had spoke to him but hadn't been on the site for a while. I do like his system on a hunting rifle that has the potential to be used for fairly long ranges. I was going to sell my .300 ULTRA as it is kinda heavy and not really conducive for the type of hunting I have been doing latley..but on second thought it would come in handy for pick up truck type deals where the truck is doing most of the carrying. As I get older this option is looking better every day. The ART reticle would work well on this rifle.

Lefty C

Yeah, that would be a good match!

I just out an ART Leupold on a Weatherby Mark V Sporter in .270 Weatherby. The rifle weighs 9-1/2 with the scope, but then again I don't plan on carrying it up and down too many mountains!

Does anyone else besides Huskemaw offer a reticle with only hash marks for windage adjustments?

You might check out John Burn's reticle that he has on a Leupold. www.greybullprecision.com

Back to the huskemaw!!! I am not a guru, expert hunter, sniper, or anything like that. I do own a huskemaw and I like it. Did I pay too much? Maybe, I don't care I like it.

For those of you who are interested in getting one, notice that most people who own them, like them. I have not found many negative reviews from people who have bought them and used the scope themselves.

My $.02

jb

I do not own one. I looked at them, but did not buy one. So it would be ludicrous for me to try and give a review on something I do not, nor have owned. Alot of people have opinions on the Huskemaw, with no personal use. So their opinion should be worth what you paid for it, nothing.

Here is my opinion of all the "trade name" scopes. And that includes Huskemaw, NightForce, Vortex, and many more.

They are trade name only scopes. Mostly manufactured if not completely manufactured over seas. Maybe a little assembly here, but not much, mostly an overseas product.

I have been in sales all my life. And my favorite products to sell are trade name products. And the reason for that is profit. Trade name products have the highest profit margin. It really is that simple.

They all say they will sell only for retail price. But Vortex is already discounting a bunch of their product. Midway has discounted NF, and it is just a matter of time for Huskemaw to have sale prices also.

They are all trade name products and a life time warranty on a trade name product is WORTHLESS. I can name several trade name companies that offered lifetime warranties on optics that just changed the name, or closed the front door. And the three listed above will do that in the future. Just wait and you will see.

So my opinion about all three of the lines mentioned above is that they could sell the same product for at least 30% less and still make a profit. That is why I will not buy any of the three. And I really do believe all three of their warranties will be worthless in ten years or less. So who's lifetime are we talking about??

I am not saying not to buy these products. I am only saying that down the road their value will go down, because their price will go down. And I really do believe a lifetime warranty from them is worthless. I have seen it too many times in sales. Tom.

You're kidding, right? Nightforce is going to change their name, or close the door? Somehow, I don't think so...

NO NO NO... you are wrong... what you are missing is a turret that has 20 moa in one rev and 1/3 moa clicks.... THEN you would be a good shooter... grins... Never seen that turrets and clicking has failed me so far in this life such that I'd need some other system. Much the same having turrets marked in yards instead of another measurement. But alas I'm not the best shot..

What makes you think NF is so special?? They are a specialized high end market scope. Heck if Leupold got their act back together NF would go out of business overnight. NF is a very small company, that does a limited amount of business. I would bet that 95% or more of the scope buyers have never even ever heard of them.

So ya they could go out of business. Or easily be forced to discount their scope 30% or 40% very easily. Tom.

I would not say there small HogHead, seems 8 out of 10 rifles I see on Sniperhide & Long range hunting is carrying a NightForce. They must be doing something right IMO.

Sorry but first of all I am not believing that. I doubt if 1 or 2---out of every 10 members on either of those two forums has a NF. And even if every single person on those two forums had one. How many do you think that would be?? Not very many. The internet forums are a very minute amount of the hunters and shooters out there. I still stand by my statement that probbaly 95% of all the shooters have never even heard of the company.

No way to prove it but I would be willing to bet that for every one NF owned by members of those two forums that there are 20 or 30 or more Leupold's owned. Tom.

Get real. How many people does the average guy know who spends $1500 or more on one scope. Very Very Very few. Tom.

I just checked some numbers. Heck SH has 43,000 total members. Lordy PA alone has 1,000,000 rifle hunters for deer alone, not counting other firearms for other hunting and shooting sports. The amount of members on the two forums you mentioned is so minuscule that it is almost not worth even mentioning in the "real world". Tom.