Just wondering about these. Are they any good? I was looking at the 10X43 ED2's and wondered if anyone here had tried them.

Terry

Do a search. On any optics forum. These are the single most intensely discussed/cussed binoculars out there over the last year. Those who use them by and large praise them. Those that have not cuss them.

IN short:
Astonishing resolution, brightness, contrast and clarity. Yes they really do challenge binoculars that cost $1,500 or more. Simple statement. Same thing with the Promaster Infinity Elite ELX ED from Doug here at CNY. They are one of the very best bang for the buck binoculars there is.

Quite frankly the #1 deal here seems to be the fact they are Chinese mfg. There it is, it becomes your call whether you buy one of these for $400, or spend $1,500 plus for an alpha. Other options nearly as good in image (or just as good) are thee Meopta Meostar, Leupold Gold Ring, Vortex Razor and maybe the Minox HG.

The next thing is the newness of the design. That binocular is just a new design. It is not a knock off of something else. Zen Ray is doing a so far stand up warranty service job, but they have not been around too long, so time has not told it tale there.

The build quality is on par with any other glass in its price class. They are not as refined as the alpha. So what, they are a $400 glass. What you get in the image should do it for you.

About the only thing to do is order one and try it and see if you like it.

Yes they are that good. A poor binocular would have fallen flat out of the gate. I have the 7x36, 8x43, 10x43 ZEN ED and the 8x42 Promaster.

RED CHINA

SUPPORT MAO!!!

Steve,

I'm sure you've covered this before but what was your final take on the 7x36? These are also ED2's correct? I looked up the specs and they seem to be a nice bino, are they physically not much smaller than the 42's? Hard to tell from pictures.

Any more insights would be appreciated.

I had a pair of 10x43 ED2's briefly and the easiest way for me to sum them up is:

$1,000.00 view
$300.00 build quality
$5.00 accessories

400 bucks is 400 bucks. I'm not gonna drop that on a new, unproven Chinese company that may be gone tommorrow. mtmuley

For arguements sake I could ask you the following:

You could buy 4 or 5 pairs of Zen Rays for one Leica or Swaro and get 98% of the view, you don't need to worry about warranty and I would assume multiple pairs would outlast one Alpha. Seriously why would you care about the warranty . . .

That's comming from a guy that uses Leica, Swaro and other high end optics. Just food for thought

I'll look for your Leica and Swaro's in the classifieds...

I suppose all companies started out as unproven at some point, did they not?

I have been told the Zen Rays compare to my ProMaster Elite ED's and can tell you for a fact my 8X42 will stand up all day against my uncles Swaro 7X42......$399 for my ProMasters.......call it what you want, but they are worth every dime. Kind of hypocritical to say I will not buy from China, but I will from Germany.....

I have the promasters (8x42's) also, very nice indeed.

Sold a pair of 8x32 Ultravid's about 4 or 5 months ago in the classifieds, they were nice. Will get another set of Ultravids sometime in the future.

The ZEN ED 2 7x36 is the best of the bunch I think. The 7x36 only came in the dielectric coated ED 2 format. The first run showed some people were pretty bothered by what is called veiling glare. Looking toward a light source (such as scanning underneath the mid day sun) there was an annoying glare visible as crescent shaped blotches. This is where I gave Zen Ray credit for warranty and service because they managed to correct the flaw and get a fix applied to the subsequent production. They did it in an amazingly short time, far faster than I ever figured they could do. It was a pretty simple thing, just a different blackening application one an internal surface and adding another internal baffle.

Anyway the fix evidently worked and anything you buy from them now in 7x36 configuration will be OK. This never was an issue with the larger x43 mm binoculars.

I wound up keeping the 7x36 and the 10x43. My 7x is the original run and I was not one of the people who saw the glare, so I am plenty happy with it. I sent my 8x43 ED 1 and ED 2 back today and will get another 7x36 with the fix.

The thing about the 7x36 is that the 7x vs 8x, while not much different in magnification sure shows a DEFINITE and marked improvement in depth of field. That coupled with the very wide fov gives a very nice feeling of superior depth perception. Very little focusing is needed. That extra depth perception (in my eyes anyway) makes detail stand out better at distance with the 7x over the 8x. It took me quite awhile to get this across to myself. While at distance, the 8x image looked a little bigger, I could get more detail off the rack of either of a couple of large (150-160") Muley bucks wintering with a bunch of does about a mile or two from the house. The typical convenient viewing range was 1,200 yds to about a mile. They were living in sage and juniper adjacent to an alfalfa pivot.

They are physically smaller than the x43. That is another equal plus for them over the x43 for me. While they are smaller than the x42, they are as large as the small end of the x42mm glass, bring pretty similar in overall size and heft to the Nikon Monarch 8x42 I have. The 7x is an inch shorter, the barrels are visibly smaller than the x43, which makes the grip nicer IMO. The 7x is about 6 oz lighter than the 8x. They feel much nicer at the end of the day .

EDIT: Probably should add that I have the Promaster 8x42, so having an 8x43 ZEN was a little redundant (let alone two), one reason why both ZEN ED 8x43 are going back.

I would agree with Waputi, he would summarize my feelings as I also tried a pair but was not happy.

If you are used to an alpha, the view, the handling, build are not there.

If you are looking for a $400.00 pair of binoculars they may be worth a look.

When I buy anything, warranty, reputation are very important in this throw away world!

Skywalker,

I don't know why it is hypocrisy to buy a product made in a country that currently (and for the past 50+ years) has a pretty decent human rights record and is an ally of U.S. and Canada (didn't notice where you were from) vs. buying a product from a country that oppresses their own people, has the U.S. over a barrel financially, and is not exactly a friend of the U.S. and Canada militarily or otherwise. From an environmental standpoint, Communist China is horrible (getting better but still horrible). From a human rights perspective, Communist China is horrible, particularly considering how they treat Christians who won't practice the adulterated Communist-modified version. Communist China is the biggest threat long-term to U.S. (and Canadian) security.

From an economic perspective (and anyone buying Zen-Ray due to the economic aspect should appreciate these issues), the Communist government of mainland China is using the money they are getting from the U.S. and Canada (and elsewhere) to
1. buy up oil reserves around the world, including off the coast of Florida
2. buy up the world's reserves of rare earth metals (check out what the implications of that are) and other minerals/metals critical to production of various products
3. buy up U.S. debt with the ability to exert tremendous pressure on the U.S. government in ways we probably aren't going to like
4. infringe on intellectual property rights of individuals and corporations from the U.S. and other countries, which may seem abstract to some, but it is a big deal to people who understand the long-term implications.
All of these things that China is doing economically will ultimately lead to higher prices in the long-term for you and your children, IF you can even buy the products you want to buy because China holds rights to the raw materials needed for the products.

You do know that businesses in Communist China are tools of the Communist government, correct? Basically, the Communist government owns the businesses, and anyone who buys Communist Chinese goods is funding the activities of the Communist government, including active efforts to steal advanced missile and other technology from the U.S, building up their military that has their missiles and doctrine pointed toward fighting the U.S., and oppressing, in many cases brutally, over a billion people. You want to be funding that? Would you have been voluntarily funding the Soviet government of the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War?

Do you want to face your Maker and explain to Him that you knew about the way that the Communist Chinese government used the money you sent them (through purchasing their products) to oppress over a billion people, including torturing Christians and oppressing the families of the ones being tortured, and you went ahead and sent them your money anyway?

So Ramblin, you are telling me that you have never purchased any, no one, item that was made China?

Ramblin,

If everything you say about China is true, it will happen regardless of whether I buy a Zen Ray binocular. I'm just looking out for #1 because no one else is, especially not my government. I have a Swaro 7x42 and a Zen ED 8x43. I like the Zen better. It is brighter, just as sharp and the color is better. I don't know about their warranty because I haven't needed it. If the company were to go out of business and a repair became necessary, I would just take my lumps. I've had defective American made products and wasn't able to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Where it's made is no guarantee.

I have the 8x43's and think they are excellent when compared to glass in the same price range. Got my money's worth for sure.

Well said Razorback, so there you have the Ugly.

My Dad who fought in Europe during WWll, and my uncle who fought in the Pacific, might have made similar comments about Germany, Austria, and Japan. Just food for thought. BTW, I have a pair of Zen ED 8x43, and they are great.

I certainly agree with most of your comments. Number 3 is really our governments fault, both Democratic & Republican. I'm an EE & have been in the manufacturing industry for over 40 years with a number of global manufacturers. I have many friends that are chief design engineers & managers that deal directly with the Chinese. One design engineer is with one of the largest manufacturers of military radios in the world. When they laid off all assemblers in Maryland & began assembly in China two things happened. Of course price declined, but quality/failure rate improved significantly. I am told repeatedly by some of the best engineers in the US that the Chinese are second to none in developing software & lets say analytical engineering. I am told their universities do not have many of the routine electrical/electronics products we have available here so focus on more of a theoretical & analytical aspect of engineering. I am semi-retired but own a design/sales electrical business. I represent a Belgium transformer manufacturer(most others are US based) with one plant in the US. Quality is outstanding & equal to the best the US offers. I recently reviewed some Chinese high voltage products & they were not that much inferior, actually almost as good as the best in the US. I am certainly not promoting Chinese products, but the fact is that many of their products are quite good & steadily improving. I know nothing about Zen-Ray, but China is advancing fast in engineering capabilities. I am told by those that know that within 20 years the Chinese will be as good as the best in the world. I am involved with many military/government projects(many classified) since I live in the Wash.,D.C. area & have friends with CIA, NASA, & other intelligence groups. I was involved with many of the classified military satellite installations in the Wash.,D.C. area. Most of you would be horrified at the intelligence gathering in the US by the Chinese & the concern many in our military command have about possible future conflicts with the Chinese.

Can't say that you aren't right about China, but our entire country is full of stuff made by them. Does that make a purchase of Zens right or wrong, I guess that's up to the buyer.

Long story short we're getting off base here and quite frankly it's pretty interesting that you can buy a $400 bino that'll compete with a $2000 one. Each to his own I guess.

Well it just ticks me off to hear people down the chinese people because of their gov't. Do you want to be judged by our current President and what is happening in Washington? I sure don't. I have been to China on many occasions while working in manufacturing and actually helped move our production overseas and setup their data systems and networks. I have made many friends overseas and most are common everyday people trying to make a living. Its crazy when someone states that we will have to answer to our 'maker' for buying a product made there.

FWIW, while the Zen's are made in China, the ZenRay company itself is U.S. based, meaning a good chunk of mark-up proceeds are likely going into American pockets and keeping an American run company afloat.
Steve- through your relations with Zen, can you give us any idea of how many people are involved in the U.S. operations end of the business?

I have the ZRS (Summit HD) 10x42s, or is it x40... don't recall. Anyway, for $180 they're pretty damn good. Better, I thought, than Nikon Monarch ATBs and for less money.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the same factory that makes Zen Rays also makes binoculars for a bunch of other companies. In fact I know of at least 4 other companies marketing binoculars that are so physically close to the Zens that the connection is obvious--and the optics are all pretty close too. The only minor differences are what the individual company's contract for, whether in cosmetics or optics.

There's also the fact that a lot of optics all over the world use Chinese lenses or other parts, and it's almost impossible to differentiate them. They might even say "Made In Japan," or are designed and engineered by a German company.

If we boycott all totally "Made In China" products it won't mean a heck of a lot to China, because they produce so many parts for so many companies world-wide.

As a side-note, one of the reasons German products cost so much is that they are in many ways a socialist country. The standard German work-week is 30 hours long, and normal vacation time is about two months a year. Wages are very high, partly because if they weren't the tax rate wouldn't leave anything to live on, but also to pay for all the social programs. Yes, they are much better about human rights than China, and we generally count them as an ally these days, but much of what we pay for German binoculars goes to support Germany's socialist programs. It doesn't all go into making everything just so.

10x43 ed2s in hand since last August and I love them. Chicom or not, they've proven themselves to be an extraordinary value. One of my hunting partners looked through mine, and has since bought and become a zenray devotee as well. FWIW...

By golly, I sure wish somebody like this would run for President in the good old USA. I'd sure vote for him!

I respectfully disagree on the view. My direct comparison with my trinovids, and my neighbor's SLC and EL tell a different story.......one that says my 10x43 Zen ED2 is a touch brighter than, and has slightly better resolution than the Trinovid and SLC. I'd give a slight edge to the EL over the Zen, but there's not a nickle's worth of difference between the two. Mine have been trouble free for 6 months of hard use.

As far as I know there are five (maybe four) partners in Zen Ray. I do not know how many of them are involved in day to day operations. Nor do I know how many employees they might have at this point. Also know I won't ask further and post the answer, that isn't my business.

Now the China thing. I can't say I have too much problem with the anti-China sentiment. However, it seems like bitching about Chinese made is sort of like treating the headache with aspirin when the headache is caused by a brain tumor. China is the symptom, not the problem. The problem with today's China influence is the cancer caused by the collective knuckleheads in the three branches of government, that the people collectively have voted for. I know one of the reasons China is not popular here around the fire is the fact that none (well I guess there is at least one exception) of us make a regular habit of voting for the Clinton's, Pelosi's, Reid's, and Obama's of the world who are the problem. Maybe we can start the chemotherapy this November. Maybe Massachusets has already fed it the first dose of radiation.

As far as Europe goes there is a whole continent seeming hell bent on flushing their various national identities in favor the "European Union". European governments seem to me to have been increasingly anti-US in philosophy and stance. The continent is being sucked up the pipe of the UN. Now try and tell me that the UN is any less harmful to US interests than China. At least it is not China trying to cram the Global Warming "Koyoto-crap" down our throats. Neither is China responsible for various cites "Treaties". Need I go on? I just don't particularly see the European Union and the UN as a heck of a lot less harmful than China.

So it really gets down to how each individual wants to spend their money. I'd rather buy a Zen Ray from Charles or a Promaster from Doug and support a US company. Yeah $400 bucks is $400 bucks. Heck yea, $2,000 is $2,000 bucks. That happens to be what you need to spend to get a better glass than a ZEN ED or a Promaster. We will always have the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" components, whatever we buy these days,

It's not that complicated. I don't like China's human rights, wage or trade policies, or the way they manipulate markets. Therefor, I don't buy Chinese products if I can afford a quality alternative. Wherever possible I try to buy US made products in order to support US employment and US manufacturing expertise. That's it in a nutshell for me.

A company like "Zen-Ray", which as far as I can tell amounts to a few guys in the import-export business, doesn't really qualify with me. They sell some impressive binoculars for the money, but they don't appear to actually "make" anything but money. It's good that they keep the alphas honest, but I think it's perfectly legitimate to question whether it's right to support products from a system which is not really free market over free market goods from the US and elsewhere.

I think you would be shocked to walk around your home and look at the products that are made in China. That doesn't even count the parts China makes and sends them elsewhere for assembly.
China owns about 25% of the US debt at last count. They could drop us to our knees if they call in the US Treauries they hold - course they would loose out as well as they rely on us for their exports. A delicate balance - a walk with the devil.

The country of origin is a tough issue to skirt these days as such a large majority of items are imported, espcially from China.

I do admit I was drawn toward purchasing my Leupold Mojaves knowing I was supporting a long-term U.S. company even thought the optics themselves were produced in Japan. But I liked that option better than the alternatives.

I would definitely not be surprised. But we're talking about the difference between doing what you and not doing what you can. Or maybe not giving a damn.

I've heard it referred to as getting within leash length of the devil.

How about "the borrower is slave to the lender"...taken from the Good Book?

I have the first version of ZEN ED for almost a year. They are very good. I used them hard. But I did take good care of it, just like all my other gears. The optics is great. I cannot find anything close in its price point.

Good points on both sides, however it seems as though you are stretching to defend the origin of the ZEN Optics which you strongly support.
In any case, before we burn all the European optics at the stake in this thread alongside the Chinese, I believe Meopta is a U.S. owned company so perhaps they should be spared to a degree?

My two cents would be to wait and see how well they hold up.
Good binoculars that have views close or very close to that of the alphas are pretty common. But truly rugged binoculars are not from what I can learn. The Leicas, the Leupold Gold Rings and the older Nikon LX stuff, having survivied the famous Alaskan Guide Test, are some of the few with proven ruggedness.
I use a cheap bino or two myself. But for serious hunting trips, I'd pay the extra bucks for something that won't let me down in the middle of an important hunt. It may not, for instance, be practicaal to return to camp for a replacement when the moment is upon you or it's many miles back for it. E

For once, I agree with you E. I have used my ProMasters hard for over a year now and they have held up. However, if I were to have a chance at a hunt of a life time, I would def be making another purchase of some bino's and have my ProMaster's for backup. But in reality for the 'everyday Joe' who hunts when he can, $350-$400 for a set comparable to alphas, it is really a no brainer.

True - it also depends on how you hunt. I don't go on 7 day backpack hunts (wish I did but I don't). If my Promasters let me down I'll return to camp and get another set but it wouldn't ruin my trip by any stretch.

This durability thing is a bit overplayed as well, what do people do with binos, heck they're around my neck and how am I going to damage them while hunting???

For the record the ProMaster (and I assume the Zen ED2) are better than most of the competition now. I just bought a pair of Nikon LX 8x32's, only did as they were $300 bucks. They aren't Alpha glass however like some claim, neither are Pentax SP's, although the LX's are nicer.

As you say for the average Joe a Zen or ProMaster is idiot proof for the dollars and quite frankly you may have a hard time justifing a Leica or Swaro . . .

Good points to ponder, but honestly how often do hunters actually have a major failure of any decent quality binoculars during a hunt and how likely is that to happen to the average user, especially one who takes care of their gear and especially binoculars in the mid-priced $300-$600 range?
There are an absolute ton of people in the hunting and birding circles that have used the new Chinese ED glasses the last 6 months or so and I've yet to hear of an actual breakage. I'd guess the odds are similar to being struck by lightning.


I've absolutely flogged a pair of 8x25 $100 entry level reverse-porro binocs over the course of ten years living in the glovebox, in the bottom of my ammo case, traveling in my pack, and bouncing off ladderstand steps during early season scouting and they still perform like new.

Understand, but if I am going away for 7-10 days or even longer I am taking two pair. Especially in rough terrain, one slip could mess up a set of bino's regardless of make. I guess my point is, and maybe I didnt make it clearly, I am not just taking one set of binos, two sets of ProMaster's for $750, yep, I think I would be covered!

I'm thinking Meopta is a Czech company, not American as you say. Great optics nevertheless.

I don't think of my Zed ED's as cheap binoculars. Plus I have my Swaro's and Leupold's as back up if needed.

Meopta is a Czech Republic company. Before it was Meopta it was Optotechnica (or similar). The new Meopta Meopro line is evidently going to be US assembled from Czech glass. The Meostar is totally Czech and good glass. Before I got the ZEN ED, I would have wound up with either a Gold Ring or a Meostar.

I realize there seems strong support from me for ZR. Having said that, when both the Promaster and then the ZR came out it became pretty clear pretty fast that these were the answer to the so often posed question "what can I get for a real good binocular without breaking my budget?"

I wondered about the China issue, but at first when it was only the Promaster and Doug's blind review, I figured that people were adults and would buy based on their circumstance, belief, and budget. So, when the inevitable (looking back on it) blast of BS (and it came from a bunch of sources from brand loyalists, alpha users, anti Chinese, nothing that cheap can be that good, it is a new company and they will be out of business post haste, and others as well)came out at this binocular and to some degree and on lots of forums, people like FrankD and I (we both see this binocular alike) were forced to blast back and take a stance that these were indeed a good binocular or the alternative was tuck tail and run, essentially admitting we were full of BS to begin with. A lot got sort of personal and at least one poster in a different place got kicked off that particular forum. So, my support for these is that they are an incredible value for the money, it is not the fact that they are Chinese. I also am not particularly prone to back off from Internet, or from a face to face, challenge for that matter.

I have no intention to burn Europe and their optics at the stake. That was to point out another way of looking at the issue, one that looks pretty obvious with a bit of recent Human History review. The post was titled the "Good, Bad, and the Ugly" from the get go. Looks like that is what the OP got.

EDIT: The ZR I sent to John Barsness did get knocked out of kilter somehow, but ZR replaced it. Doug tells me he has yet to a get a Promaster back.

Thinking, or knowing? ;}

I'd doubt they'd advertise on their website of being American owned if it weren't a fact: http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/about.php?ID=1&nav1=8&nav2=3

Open your link and read the text under the picture on the left.

Good explanation. I totally agree with your views on the Chinese glasses and agree they rival the alphas in every regard aside from possible finish-quality/longevity, but those assumptions may prove us all wrong as time goes on.
If anything, they have permantly raised the bar for expectations of what consumers should expect from optics of that price range which will ultimately benefit us all.

Uhh, ok? What are you refering to? Yes, it is in the Czech Republic. But the company itself is American owned. Have you not seen other American owned enterprises operated overseas?
Read the first sentence in the main paragraph.

Another inidcation of origin of company ownership would be the fact that the new MeoPros are being assembled in the U.S. from parts being brought from the American owned Czech factory. http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/promo2.php

I could personally careless of country of origin. I used to be pro- Japan when it came to optics. I care more about the view now and Zen provides an awesome view!!! Great bang for the buck!!!

ummm...ProMaster is an American owned company......

If Hitler were exporting the finest binoculars in the world, would you buy a pair?

If they were autographed.

Just trying to see whether there is a line here anywhere, and if so where it might be.

How do you draw the line? I'd bet that if you looked at the back of the remote for your TV it will say made in China. There are probably lots of things in your home that you think are US made but have parts that were made in China. Also, China buys some products that were made in the US and create American jobs. I think it's naive to think you can avoid buying anything made in China.

Slightly off point, but I'd sooner buy a product made in China than a car from a company owned by Obama.

It is naive to think you can avoid buying anything made in China. No one is arguing that that's possible.

It's stupid to think there's no reason to prefer goods made anywhere else.

Quote: "I'd sooner buy a product made in China than a car from a company owned by Obama." End Quote

Right on Brother! I wont support govt motors, no more GM cars for me until the govt gets out of that business.

Also, don't you think it odd that Obama's Transpertation Czar is making all of these negative comments regarding Toyota's? That's because the govt now has a vested and biased interest.

All I can say to that is that I prefer goods that give me the most bang for the buck. You are welcome to spend whatever it takes to make you feel superior.

If I had $2000 to spend, I would not spend more than $500 on glasses if there is only that small amount of difference between the most expensive ones and the second best ones. I'd rather save my money for something else. But, if it is your $2000, go spend as much as you can (or can't afford) and keep the economy floating.

What are you smoking today? Wow!!

Scotty,

Forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know, but most of the big optics companies have a US based distributorship, like Leica USA or Nikon USA, I don't know if those distributors are US ownd subsidyaries(sp?) of the parent company or not, but for sue the parent company is foriegn. When I read Meopta USA, I'm assuming that is their US based distributing company and assembly plant. I still think the parent company is Czech, could be wrong though.

John

These Zen-Rays and their sisters-under-the-skin aren't made by an American company or anything like it. It's ridiculous to think so. They are made by a large Chinese optics factory which is certainly government subsidized and run wholly according to its policies. Are the products of this factory used to surveil Taiwan or carve up Tibet? How could that be surprising? All a company like ZR or Promaster does is place an order for products with certain specifications from the factory's menu of choices and then distribute them here. It's a no-brainer that Zeiss, Swarovski, Nikon and Leica each employ far more Americans than Zen Ray.

This is getting sort of pointless, but. Steiner is owned by Burris, so does that make them American. Oh..wait Burris is owned by Beretta, so does that make Steiner Italian?

Meopta originated in Checkoslovakia. For years (as Optoteknia)they were the prime optics supplier for the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union. When the iron curtain came down they became Meopta and took off into the sports optics business. They still make the glass in the now Czech Republic. So Meopta has a presence in the USA. They will take Czech glass and assemble it here in the US. OK they are an American company. You win.

What happens if Leupold decides to buy a factory in China. Supervised by Leupold engineers who are US citizens building Leupold engineered designs. What is the deal then? Oh...wait Steiner already has a big manufacturing facility in China...Does that make Burris Chinese? Does that make Beretta Chinese? Does that make China Italian?

EDIT: I have no clue as to what lines from Steiner have any Chinese in them. However I'd bet their top stuff is German all the way. That is unless it is either US or maybe Italian.

So if they start building scopes you guys are gonna snatch them up and mount them on your rifles? My original point was I work HARD for my money. I want to spend it on a company and product I can count on. mtmuley

I will hold my judgment until I see their scopes first. If it is the same build quality and clarity as their binoculars with fraction of alpha price, I will grab one for sure.

John- There could be a US owned portion of the company and a portion that is still Czech owned, but from what it looks like the sport optic division is American owned.

As I already linked direct from Meopta's website: (Seems like pretty straighforward info)



It could be this is the US based Meopta company owned by TCI and that Meopta/optika is still Czech owned, but in any case, the US end of the deal seems to be more complex than most simple US distributors of other optics companies.

Another google search hit:

[quote=Mule Deer]

As a side-note, one of the reasons German products cost so much is that they are in many ways a socialist country. The standard German work-week is 30 hours long, and normal vacation time is about two months a year.

Wow! Your sure about that?
Bretton

Check out this link on average working hours in countries around the world if it is of interest to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

If I were to buy a pair of Zen-Ray binox, I'd want to know a little more about the business relationship between the Chinese company making them, and Zen-Ray USA. Someone mentioned that there were 3, or 4 guys that comprise Zen-Ray USA. How do the USA guys buy a particular pair of binox from the Chinese company making them?
What documentation is involved in the purchase?

I guess you guys that are refusing to buy from China because of its gov't activities are also going to stop buying gas made by oil pumped in the middle east Muslim nations and Brazil........post some pics of your horses and buggies......hypocrisy at its finest on this post for sure......

DMB,

No documentation required. Contact ZR, give them your credit card number and wait for big brown to stop at your door.

...or Nigeria, Mexico (might as well support the drug lords who own things down there), Venezuela..........It's much to logical of an argument skywalker.

I've got no dog in this fight as I'm not completely opposed to Chinese exports, but how can you possibly compare communist China with Middle East oil producing countries, many of which are our allies like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? hypocrisy? Seriously?
You seem to have a bit of a problem comprehending the logic being presented to you.
Let's cut to the chase: With refined petroleum, we have no choice at the pump. It is what it is and the station down the street sells product from the same sources. No other option besides ethanol fuel if it is available in your area and if you have a compatible vehicle.
With a consumer good such as optics, we are still quite fortunate to have many choices before us manufactured in many different countries of origin very unlike other some other consumer goods which are nearly all produced in China. It's about having choices.
Where there is a choice available, some folks prefer to do their best to first support our country or at the very least that of our allies as opposed to a communist threat. Is that so hard to understand or appreciate?

That's not the issue. The issue is with what documentation do the 4 guys in the USA buy binox from an unknown outfit in China? It's not like they are buying binox from an established binox mfgr in Urp.

You wanna start DMB Optics? Just get enough money together, contract with an OEM someplace (they are in Japan too) and talk it over and they will make you a run of what you want. The Visa card is the documentation. What will make it sucessful is whether or not you know what you are doing and if what ever factory it is figures you are worth their effort in the long run. There are a lot of established optics companies that do that very thing for their low price optics.

If you have enough optics design ability to design tou own, you can also get an OEM to make it for you.

Oh, so now it is about choices....you do have a choice.....you do as you please and justify however you want.......but please don't play the communist gov't card when you will gladly go to the pump and finance terrorism......what a joke!

I am more concerned about another 19 of our Saudi allies flying planes with explosives into population centers than I am about the communist threat. And as I mentioned before, I would rather buy a product from the Chinese than the Muslim sypathizer who took over Chrysler and GM.

[/quote] I am more concerned about another 19 of our Saudi allies flying planes with explosives into population centers than I am about the communist threat. And as I mentioned before, I would rather buy a product from the Chinese than the Muslim sypathizer who took over Chrysler and GM. [/quote]

Doubletap: Last time I checked, the US Government owns GM (which has no commeon stock outstanding) and Chrysler (most of their equity is in the form of US tax dollars). Are you calling the US Government a Muslim sympathizer?

Oldtrader 3,

No, not the whole government, just the teleprompter-in-chief.

Finance terrorism?? Wow. You just confirmed what I already suspected- That you have no real grasp on global economy or world affairs and how they interact with one another. How about we let this one slide and get the subject back to optics.

To the rest of the forum- Sorry to all if I got this thread sidetracked with my original remark on country of origin. I'll try to keep comments based on quality of optics.

That would be nice!

I'm game...for what its worth scottryan....I would def be willing to compare knowledge of global economics, especially having traveled throughout central America, Japan and Asia for a manufacturing employer....feel free to PM me if you feel the need to.

Optically the Zen's are great!

Wow, I didn't realize this site was so popular with the activist crowd! To the original poster: Yes, the Zens are good, the politics you can probably decide on for yourself.

As much as I can, I like my purchases, especially my hunting gear to be from a USA company. I can't control every aspect of where every component of an item is manufactured. Seems 100% USA is damn tough to find these days. I don't buy Toyota either. mtmuley

even though most of their models are produced by Americans working in American plants on American soil for American dollars selling to Americans???