Good Morning all,

My name is Reece. I am a new member to this forum. I have been doing searches on swarovski and kahles scopes. I have just purchased a new rifle. It is a Steyr Mannlicher Luxus in 7mm-08. The rifle comes with a Picatinny rail. Hopefully I should receive it in a few months. I am in Australia and currently there are none in the country. Cannot wait to get my hands on it. I will be using the rifle as a walking/stalking rifle, so the less weight scope the better.

Anyway, back to the discussion. I swear by Leupold scopes and I currently have Leupold VX-L's on both of my current rifles and love them. But, I have forked out a bit of cash for this European rifle, and I would like to keep the theme of Euro with optics (I have a Weatherby Mk5 SVM with a VX-L, so I have kept American with American there).

I have decided on either:

Kahles Helia CT 3-9 x 50L ...OR...Kahles Helia CT 3-9 x 40L with either 4, 4A or Plex reticle. This scope has a 30mm tube.

and

Swarovski Z6 - 1.7 - 10 x 42 with the German 4 reticle. I like the posts to be as close to eachother as possible. This scope has a 1 inch tube.

Now - the question I pose to everyone, I need advice on which scope to buy. I have not had a look through a Kahles yet as my gunshop did not have any. I had a look through the abovementioned Swarovski, and I absolutely loved it. I want a scope with a reticle on the 2nd plane, which both these scopes have. Is there going to be a huge difference between the 30mm and 1 inch tube? This rifle will be used basically at all hours of the day - dawn, day, dusk and also spotlight. But I think the quality of the glass will take care of any light gathering abilities.

Have any of you guys had experience with either scope? I love Leupold due to the durability and warranty. I would like to know if either of my selected Euro scopes will be as tolerable as a Leupold in the VX3/VXL category, and also quality of lenses.

Where I am, I can buy the mentioned Kahles for about $1500, where the Swarovski will cost me about $2300. Prices in Australian $$.

I am tempted to buy a Kahles simply because at that price they are a great deal. They usually sell for more here but they are at the above price as I think they are bringing a new model in. So I am saving quite a bit if I purchase the Kahles.

My other dilemma is what rings will be best for this outfit? I have never used a Picatinny before. I would like to obviously get the scope as low as I can. Is it possible with the above scopes - the new rifle has a bolt lift similar to a Weatherby Mk5. I want strong, sturdy rings. I have been considering Leupold, Warne and Talley. Can anyone offer advice on this too please.

Both scopes cost a lot of money and the only reason I bought the rifle is that I saved quite a bit on it due to a special. The rifle here cost me $3400 (usually $3800). I just want to make sure that I put the best optics I can afford. My shooting ranges are from close up scrub/brush shooting, to about 300 metres. Thank you all for your time and input.

Z6'from Swarovski are 30 MM tube also. You can't go wrong with Either scope. I use both regularly and always feel Like I'm a little less whole on the swaros due to the big premium. There are Swaro scopes that I'd trade nothing for like the 1.7-10x42 Z6i with TDS reticke on my 375 Ackley. Great scope!. All my steyrs wear Kahles.

I have the Kahles Helia CT 3-9x42 one inch scopes with 4A reticle on both of my Cooper rifles,and I could not be more pleased.You do not require a 30mm scope tube,and having a 30mm tube does not mean that it will transmit more light.

Sorry I was mistaken, Swarovski is 30 mm, the Kahles is the one with the 1 inch tube. Apologies

Thanks for your replies so far. Hairbol - nice to know there is another Steyr fan. Do you happen to have a Luxus? If so how do you find it?

Do you think I am getting basically the same performance of the Swaro if I was to buy the kahles CT?

Stubblejumper - Do you find the 4A reticle suits most applications. I am used to using a Duplex reticle in my Leupolds. I want the scope to be able to track close, moving targets and still have good definition at longer ranges.

ProHunter85,

As you said this is to be a walking/stalking rifle. My suggestion would be to forget about the 50 mm objectives and 30mm tubed scopes. These are really not necessary and are heavy. A big/heavy/bulky scope will just destroy the balance qualities of the rifle you are putting it on. Go with a 1" tube and no larger than 42mm objective.

I have owned and do own both Swarovski and Kahles scopes and personally, I'd stick with your suggestion of the Kahles 3-9x42mm CL w/ plex reticle. Trim, light and stellar optics at a more affordable price than Swarovski. Honestly your not giving up much optically with the Kahles; they are excellent!

Personally, I'm more confident in my Kahles holding zero than I am in my Swarovski, just my opinion/ experience.

Good luck, Leftybolt

I, too, agree that you can not go wrong with either of your choices. I have both Swarovski and Kahles scopes and would be hard pressed to pick a favorite. If money is no object, I'd probably go with the Swarovski, but neither would I hesitate to purchase another Kahles. I personally don't feel the need for a 30mm tube, as I would consider the weight factor.

Do you think the 1 inch tube with a 42mm objective is going to limit me when shooting at dawn/dusk??

Not familiar with Kahles, but the 1.7-10 Swarovski I do own. I have Luepold, Schmitt & bender, Trijicons, Burris,ect. The 1.7-10x42 your asking about is the best scope I own and prefer the most.

A 30mm scope does not transmit more light than a 1" tube,and a 42mm lens is more than adequate for dawn,dusk shooting.The brightness of the scopes,is one reason that I chose the 3-9x42 Helia CT.

Either Swarovski or Kahles are going to provide good light transmission at dawn or dusk. I feel the glass is the important factor, not the size of the tube.

I've never owned a Swarovski but I can definitely give you two thumbs up on the Kahles. Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Landrum

All my Steyr's are Pro Hunters with the exception of a Forrester in 260. They all wear Kahles 3.5-10x50 AH scopes with the TDS reticle. I've found them to be wonderful scopes and rifles. Several have made trips to Africa and have performed flawlessly. In terms of the better scope, on a purely technical basis I'd be suprised if the Swaro weren't the superior scope. As I've said several that I own are outstanding, do I feel I'm giving anything away with teh newest Kahles scope - no. In fact as I said before I like the fact that they don't pinch the wallet fro another $1000 or so.

There are timnes I can see the difference, If I'm doing a/b comparisons yous I can see a difference, however there's no A/B comparison when hunting and either of these scope provides very high end performance.

...you may want to look at the "optics" section in the accurate reloading website...

...there is a post concerning swaro's (the corporate parent of kahles) decision to close the kahles division (warranty issue that may perhaps be ameliorated by a parent company continuing guarantee of kahles products)...

The kahles scopes are great, at their old price points they used to be one of the best scopes going, which may be the reason that Swarovski stopped importing them. Swarovski of course is also top in optics. I think you will find they both are superior to leupold in both durability and certainly in optical quality.

On the warranty note does anyone know the current status of the kahles situation? I see Gamo is listed as the current contact for any warranty/support issues on www.kahlesusa.com site and is also selling them (though the prices have skyrocketed!).

The prices have appeared to skyrocket only because they are only listing their two top of the line models. Their more affordable lines are obsolete in terms of new model production. I called the fellow in Rhode Island a couple months ago at their listed phone number, he said Kahles is going strong, just switched distributors. Their European clients haven't gone anywhere. Just their marketing and distribution here in the US is being handed over to GAMO. The info below is from the last email correspondence with GAMO, she has been exceptional to communcate with.
Penny Crisp
Customer Service
Gamo Outdoor USA
1475 S. Sam Houston Blvd.
Houston MO 65483
Phone: 954-581-5822
Fax: 417-967-1069
[email protected]

So does it seem that warranty could be an issue with Kahles then?

Put your location in your profile -- everybody is assuming that you are in the US (where the distributor and service may be a problem).

Few people read every word of a thread, so they didn't see that you were in Australia when they tried to be helpful regarding warranty issues.

I think you will be very pleased with either scope, in any case!

John

My apologies,

I was in a bit of a rush the other day when I signed up and just wanted to get my post submitted.

I will update my profile

No need to apologize! I was trying to be helpful, and was not criticizing you. Sorry if my rushed comment came off a bit gruff!

I think the only reason I mentioned the lack of a place in your profile it was because I too am not in the US. Most members are though, and tend to assume that everybody who does not say otherwise is there too. Of course, it is only regarding a few aspects that are country-specific that a location matters at all -- but the warranty on Kahles is on of those aspects!

Welcome to the 'Fire!

Although I have not (yet!) bought one, I have closely examined the Swarovski Z6 you mention. I was really impressed, and I think the zoom range is just about perfect for anything except a hard-core varmint rifle! I want one!

I do not know how long I will be able to resist buying one!

Swarovksi sure does not give those scopes away, but I trade rifles much more than scopes, so I worry less and less about scope prices in recent years because I keep them many years. I have had mounted some of my Leupold and Bausch & Lomb scopes on 5 or 6 rifles now!

John (in northern Sweden with 14C temperatures -- a fine summer day close to the Arctic Circle!)

I have owned 6 of the Kahles AH series- I love 'em.
Lightweight, great clarity, spot on adjustments and very rugged.
I don't know anything about the other series' of Kahles scopes-but if they are anything at all like the AH, a guy would be happy, IMO.

Just thought I would let you all know that I put down a deposit on a Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x42 with the #4 reticle yesterday. Thank you all for your advice. I know the Kahles is a great scope also and it was a really tough choice to decide between the two. My rifle should hopefully be ready for me in about 2 months, as it has to come through customs yet, but once I get the rifle and scope set up I will post some pictures. I have booked a Chital Deer hunt next year and plan to use this rig.

Cheers

[quote=Landrum]I've never owned a Swarovski but I can definitely give you two thumbs up on the Kahles. Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either.
I second that. I am very impressed with the non-illuminated 30mm tubed 1.1 x 6 x 42's and 1.1 x 4 x 24's, and also am becoming fond of a 1" tubed 2 x 7 x 36. I have come to prefer the 30mm tubes and 1st focal plane reticles. When I first started using these, I thought I had purchased something I was not going to like. But, that changed quicly with a little time spent with them! I rate my Kahles 1.5 x 6 x 42 (7A reticle) right with my Zeiss Diavari 1.5 x 6 x 42(#4 reticle). I "think", I like the Zeiss #4 reticle the best though. The Swarovski, I do not/have not owned, yet. Though, when the circumstances allow, I am intersted in picking up a Swarovski.