Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a 1955 M70 in .30-06, which is currently running a Lyman 48 receiver sight.

I'm thinking about upgrading to a modern scope for hunting and target practice and have been looking at the Leupold vx-3 3.5-10x40 mm scope. What do you guys think? Any advice from Pre 64 owners is particularly appreciated! I'm also wondering what rings/mounts are best for a low profile that will still clear this rifle. I'd like to keep the Lyman 48 on while the scope is employed (I was told the elevation adjustment on the left side can be removed to allow for a scope), but am not 100% sure whether this is do-able.

Cheers,
Eric

You can remove the elevation slide from the Lyman, but with regular scope mounts you will not be able to reinstall the elevation slide because the rear scope mount will interfere with it. The only mounts that would allow for you to remove the scope and replace the elevation slide are side mounts, which require drilling and tapping the action. That is a beautiful rifle, don't put anymore holes in it.

I've had a pre-64 Model 70 set up like yours, and what I did was just remove the scope mounts when I wanted to shoot iron sights, then put them back on when I wanted to scope the rifle. Not a field expedient setup, but my backup system in case of scope failure is a second scope, pre-zeroed in rings.

As for scopes, the Leupold you mentioned will work just fine, though I prefer Leupold M8 3x's or 4x33's. As for bases and rings, I use steel Weaver bases and steel Burris Zee weaver rings. These allow for the bolt to clear the smallish rear objectives on those scopes.

Other side of the Lyman 48:

Beautiful rifle!

Thanks, man! It's an old Super Grade.

Eric,

I inherited a pre-64 Model 70 in 30-06 from my Dad this year. I wanted to put a period-correct scope on it, so I purchased a vintage Weaver 2.5-8x40 externally adjusted variable. I think it looks great.

Might work with a one-piece base that uses only the forward rear hole.

Bruce

I run a Zeiss Victory on my Pre-64 .300 H&H.

EricM: At the end of your first full year Hunting with that Rifle you would have diminished its considerable value by at least 10%.
After 5 years of Hunting kiss away 50% of its current considerable value!
My suggestion is to look around and find a standard grade pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 90% condition and scope it up and Hunt away.
The pre-64 Winchester Model 70's are exceptionally strong, safe and in my extended experience are rather accurate!
My pre-64 Winchester Model 70 (standard Rifle circa 5/3/54) in caliber 30/06 in fact is scoped with a Leupold 3.5x10 variable scope.
I have killed Blacktailed Deer, Mule Deer, Mt. Goat, Elk, Black Bear, Antelope and Whitetailed Deer with this Rifle/scope set up!
In fact it is just one of two Rifles that I have ever "retired"
- it simply has killed so much game and served me so well for so long that I have hung it up and just admire it from time to time.
Again I highly recommend you do not use the handsome Super Grade Rifle for field use!
IF you do - then I recommend that you simply detach the Lyman sight completely and save it for future use.
Lyman used to offer a "dummy" slide for the sight base and it simply occupied and kept safe from damage/rust the main body/groove of the Lyman 48's & 57's.
I think I have one of these somewhere as it came with a Model 70 I collected years ago (the slide part of the sight had been "missplaced"!).
Best of luck to ya which ever way you go.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: I just looked at your additional posting/photo and that Lyman sight is a "Target" sight and it also has significant value - sell the sight and use the proceeds as a down payment on a "shooter" pre-64 Winchester Model 70 standard Rifle!

I may be incorrect, but it looks like a FWT. I would put a Leupold 2-7x33 on it. That was my choice for my pre64 FWT. Compliments it nicely and still keeps it light. A fixed 4X would be good too.

If this was directed to me, I've already mounted it, and will sight it in someday.

Sorry, meant for OP. Forum software always presumes a response is to the preceding post, not the original post, and I don't always catch it.

Bruce

I leave as-is. Looks to be a very fine set-up. If someone twisted my arm, I believe I'd find a very clean Leupold 3X or 4X. M70's in general seem to have a better "feel" to them with lighter scopes.

As someone else mentioned, if I wanted an everyday hunting rifle that I could scope, I would pickup a new production and leave that one as-is.

First off, welcome and congrats on a great looking rig, on a wood stocked rifle like yours I think the leupold dual dovetail looks/works great. Find a long tube 4X and you're set to make some great memories with "the" classic american rifle.

IMO that's too much scope for a .30-06

I'm not a fan of Leupold rings and I think some vintage Weaver tip-offs with the large knobs would look correct. Leupold Gloss finished 2-7X32 would be nice. I'd scope it or sell it because I can't afford safe queens and without a scope you may as well hunt with a .30-30.

Thanks for the great feedback, everyone!

It is a Super Grade (not a FWT), and has a few other unique characteristics: Factory upgraded wood, ebony forend (not Bakelite), National Match Barrel. I bought it from a private collector in CT.

I would like to use it (not abuse) rather than keep it as a safe queen. Loss of value from field work matters less to me than creating memories with a rifle that has soul. I could very easily keep it as is, as the Lyman 48 is very adequate. But it would be nice to have more optics capability. I'm leaning towards removing the Lyman 48 (not selling it) and buying a smaller scope 2-7x33 or a fixed 4x.

Additional feedback on rings/mounts would be very appreciated! Is there a low profile seteup that would work well with the 2-7x33 or a fixed 4x? Thanks!

Sorry I don't have much advise for you other than it's your rifle and based on it you seem to have good taste, so do what you think is best. If it were my rifle, like you I would use it well and take very good care of it. As someone else suggested, I would remove the aperture sight to store or sell, then put a Leupold 2.5-8 in low mounts on it. Your hunting style might be different than mine though.

You've got a very nice rifle.

John

My 1961 safe queen wear's a time period 26mm 4X Redfield Bear Cub/hunting dot in Buehler rings & bases http://photobucket.com/sqweeler i5

That's a beautiful Parker, is that stock original?

John

Yes John.And I'm lucky to have documentation in both stock and order book's! $100 in Nov,1904 and finished Feb,1905.Special order Live pigeon gun.

Sweet rig, Sqweeler, and thanks for the compliments John. You have to love some of these older rifles!

Eric

Cool, here's a couple of my old timers...

Parker GH from late 1880s



A 1907 Lefever that I restored...

I've got a standard pre-64 with a lyman peep as well. I carry it as my bear spray while guiding. I've thought about the same question for my rifle. I have a leupold 3x I'd like to put on sometime. I'll probably go with Leupold's dual dove tail rings and mounts in low. It isn't something you can easily change while hunting. But also wouldn't be too hard with a screwdriver and torx-driver. You would have to take the scope out of the rings but you could leave the bottom of the rings still in the mounts. I've also consider talley's mount/rings system. I believe it lets you remove the scope and rings and then mount a peep sight to the rear mount. Would work well for in field.

For rings don't overlook the Talley LW aluminum's in low height, you obviously seem to want to hunt the rifle and not "safe queen" it. Find a used stock or drop it in a McMillan if you want to keep the stock new looking.

I have a once fired 1954 FWT that is about to get dropped into a used wood stock and I'm going to use it for what they made em for. For me life is getting too short to deny myself the enjoyment of using my nicest possesions because I'm too worried about making money on them.

If you are feeling a special bond to that Model 70, go enjoy it and make some memories......

Good for you, GWood. I completely agree. Life is too short, and these rifles were meant to hunt! You should post a pic of that 1954 FWT!

I'll check out the Talley's. Thanks for the recommendation!

Thanks as well for the rings/mounts recommendation, Ralphie!

I use leupold DD's on mine,with 3,4 or 6X Leupolds.Works swell.....

With a VX3 on my pre 64 FE 270, I use Leupold STD's. I hate the windage screw but it does work and my present rifle has stayed in zero for two hunts and two trips to Wyoming.

My Talley LW's must be drilled off-center somehow because the scope won't bottom on 3 rifles I have tried them on so far...

Burris Signature rings are also excellent, attractive, and stronger than most.

I've used a variety of rings and mounts on the pre 64's including Buehlers, Talleys etc. My favorite set up is just the standard Redfield Jr. base and low rings.

I don't have a Lyman sight handy but I'm sitting here looking at a FW rifle. I think you might be able to keep the Lyman with the Redfield Jr. mount?????

On that rifle I like the lighter scopes. 2X7 or 2.5X8 Leupold are my favorites.

Bob, I haven't used the DD Leupolds. Do you use the low or med. rings?

Sendero, I use DD Lows...not all scopes work because the bolt handle lift is higher on pre 64's unless you grind that bolt handle.So I mostly stick to fixed power Leupolds which mount well on about anything....

OK, thanks...

It's been awhile since I've used the low Redfields but I remember that the bolt comes real close to the scope and the scope sometimes is not centered..windage.

Terry

I have a couple pre-64 M-70's and I have a good buddy that has a few dozen. All of them have Talley rings on them.

If I were you I'd go with the QD rings so that you can detach the scope to use with the apeture rear site if it fit OK.

Saying that a 3-9x40 scope is too much for a 30-06 is nonsense. It's not the most Popular magnification range for nuthin'.

Something like a Zeiss or Swaro 2.5-10x42 would be a superb scope for such a nice rifle.

I've hunting several times with a 2-7 range scope including last week. Every time I hunted with it I've ended up moving up to a 2.5-10 range scope. If you hunt in tighter bush the 2-7 makes sense but I prefer the higher magnification and the better optics of the 2.5-10 scopes I own. IMHO better glass is available in the 1.5-6 or 2.5-10 range than you can find in the 2-7 magnification range. Just my opinion but I have hunted with all of the above................................DJ

A shot from last month of my Model 70 30-06, also made in 1955, doing what it likes. It's wearing a 3x9 Leupold Compact in low rings on Leupold reversable bases. The rifle is a standard weight that now has a FW barrel on it. It weighs just under 8 lbs. and is much nicer to carry.

I think a 6x36 Leupold would be perfect

My '58 Model 70 in .30-06 has the steel detachable Talleys with a 4x Leupold. Works great!

I have a prewar .257 Roberts, it has a Leupold 2-7X in a Redfield Jr. mount with the old style rings. My other pre '64 is a .35 Whelen which is my deer rifle, it has a Lyman 48 and a Griffin & Howe Double Lever Mount. I have two top halves for the G&H Mount, one has a Lyman Alaskan and the other a vintage Leupold 2-7X.

I really like that rifle EricM! I can understand the featherweight confusion because your supergrade looks like it has a 22" long barrel in the photos. even though it is obvious it is a standard weight contour which should be 24" maybe its just the picture.
trying to pick mounts can be tough. I have Conetrols on my Pre 64 '06 and 270 featherweights and leupold made redfield style two piece bases w/low rings on my 270 standard rifle.
I would like to try Tally steel mounts.

Hate to hear that Bob, I've had nothing but good luck with Talley's. I'm slowly changing everything over to the aluminum LW's if possible. They aren't the slickest looking, but for utility I can't find much to not like about them.

Only complaint I have with them is the lows aren't really that low and that can be good or bad depending on the rifle and scope design.

Swarovski av 3-10

Swaro Z3 3-9X36 works well on a couple of my rifles!

Ive also had problems with the bolt handle clearing when using Leupold STD Bases and Lows. Burris bases are a smidge taller, and when used with low rings will probably give you the lowest possible set-up.

As far as Talleys, I like their steel rings very much, not so much with the LW aluminum's. First set I had, really goofed a nice scope. Latter sets were better, but still dont like them. If I wanted aluminum rings, I'd probably get Leupold Rifleman's.

I think I'd choose Burris/Leupold Dual Dovetails, or fixed steel tally. Warne are nice, but heavy.

I'm thinking a gloss FXII 6x36 would look perfecto on that pre 64!

GWOOD: I don't know what is up with that set because I have used the Tallet LW on other rifles with good results,but these extra lows don't wanna fit.......thought about trying to lap them but not sure I could do that.

Lots of great ideas here. Thanks y'all!!

Eric

Thanks 1911a1!

It is 24" but I think it's just the angle of the shot. Plus it's a National Match barrel which has a lower front sight than what you normally see.

What a beautiful rifle! Lots of good suggestions here, seems like everyone has their own personal preference and just about every one would look good on that rifle. I have a similar vintage rifle that has an early sixties 2.5 x 8 B&L Balvar on a Buhler mount. I love that scope, not so much the mount, but it works.

John

My 1953 30-06 wears a Leupy Vari-XIII 2.5-8x36. I think it is about a perfect match.....





My bud has a 1954. His sports same scope in 3.5-10x40 that I sold him......

2muchgun,

I'm curious why you swapped out the 3.5-10x40 for the 2.5-8x36? Was the 3.5-10 overkill?

It does look like a perfect match for that rifle!

Eric

So...

I bought a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36 scope for this pre'64 1955 Winchester M70 in .30-06. I also bought Leupold STD rings (low) with a 2-piece scope mount base (reversible rear).

My gunsmith told me:


It looks like the spacing on the rear mount holes is closer together than the front.

What mount will work?

Below is what I've ordered, including a recent order of extension rings which I now think I probably don't need as it's a mount issue, not a ring issue?...

Thanks for the help!!

Eric

LU-MT-RING-STD-49898 Leupold STD Rings $22.99
LU-MT-BASE-2PC-50021 Leupold Standard 2PC 2-Piece Rifle Scope Mount Base (Leupold riflescope mounting system) $16.99
LU-RS-VX-3-25-8x36-66340 Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36mm Riflescope $389.99
LU-MT-RING-STD-49910 $27.99 Leupold STD 1-inch Extension Ring, Low Matte Black Variant = LU-MT-RING-STD-49910 (+$5.00)

that is unusual for a post war 30-06 to have different front/rear hole spacings.

the only ones I was aware of were the Target rifles that had stripper-clip slotted recievers, in which case the rear spacing is 0.435" and will use the same rear base as the 300 H&H and 375 H&H rifles


edit to add:

I just saw your other post



If it was a National Match barreled actionl it most likely does have the stripper clip slot and the 0.435" rear hole spacing

I bet you that's it - the National match barreled action.

Will I need to reorder bases, or just the rear?

Any help on Leupold model #, would be very much appreciated!

no idea if Leupold sells individual parts. The front is definitely the same.

If you are happy with the turn-in and windage adjustable bases, I'm pretty sure I have some around, I will look tonight and if I locate them I will send them to you.

Free Miner,

Thanks so much for the offer. That is very kind of you!

Would those bases accept STD rings?

I sent an email to my gunsmith to confirm the measurements when he gets back from the Shot Show.

If you're right on the .435" rear measurement, it looks like Leupold does offer bases in QR style (#50062 or 49836).

Update to follow.

Eric

I just measured the mounting points on my '55 300 H&H the rear holes are indeed .435 the fronts are .865. The bases are Leupold QRW and are availalbe. Not sure if they are sold seperate front and rear, check the spacing on the front and see if the pre64 300H&H set will fit. I use a Zeiss Conquest 3X9X40 on mine as it allows me to keep the stock iron sights installed with a scope.

Thanks for the input, Smithrjd.

What's better, the QR or QRW (Weaver style) bases?

Since the scope is a 2.5x8 I'd probably have to get extension rings (?)

If I remember correctley, the only bases available at the time when I scoped the Winchester (willed to me never had a scope!) were the QRW type. To clear the bolt I had to use mediums. These are the style that have the levers to release the scope. I do have an extra Weaver one piece base and medium rings that I am not using that I got from John Barsness. It is setup for the magnum spacing. .435rear/865front

Smithrjd-

Very cool! It looks like it's probably the magnum spacing .435 rear/ .865 front. I'll have to confirm once my 'smith gets back from the Shot Show. I also need to see whether ring extensions are needed to accomodate the 2.5-8x36.

Oh the joys of owning an old rifle. LoL!

Exactly what I have on mine with a early Weaver variable (3-9x40) that has a burnished SS finish and external windage/elevation turrets.

EricM, I was half right, I have two Redfield Jr's marked 70-AM

Both are tapped for the Redfield flip-up peeps, and the spacing from the two furhtermost holes is 5.090". That is a 2.5-8 in the picture, so the ring spacing will work.

Anyways, they are dust collectors, so if you can use them you are welcome to one. Numrich has the peeps for $8.95 if you wanted to put one back on as well.




and how's this for period correct? Unidentified by maker, but they are 1' and the rear ring screws to the receiver sight base holes on the left side. Made for the pre-war and M54 rifles with undrilled rear bridges

Free Miner & Smithrjd,

Thanks for the kind offers. You guys seriously rock!! I love this place! After a call to my gunsmith (his assistant measured the hole spacing at .435rear/865front today) and to Leupold, I decided to opt for Leupold QRW 2 piece bases (#49836) with matching rings in Low (#49853). If for some reason that doesn't work, I'll circle back and consider the one-piece bases - which will probably work just as well. If you need any Leupold standard bases or rings, or extension rings, let me know as I have some on hand. LoL.

Cheers,
Eric

Not to resurrect a dead thread...

But after much trial and error I finally found a combination that would let me mount a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36 onto a pre-64 M70 National Match rifle. I used Talley steel bases for the Winchester Model 70 (.435) Pre 64 Long Action Magnum (Double Extended Front) - 25XX704 - and 1" Screw Lock Detachable Rings in Low / Matte - M200003. The Leupolds would not work with the hole spacing and short scope tube of the 2.5-8.

I think it's a perfect combo and am happy with it.

Here she is:

Eric,

Here ya go.

Leupold VX3 1.75-6 in Leupold low QR rings/bases in 9.3x62 custom built by ours truly Redneck and finished by Charley Santoni of CS Sports. If you use the Leupold Alumina scope covers the lows fit just right. If you're going to use Butler Creek scope covers you'll need medium QR rings.






The scope now has the CDS elev dial on it.





The next is a VERY custom 257 Roberts by Glen Morovitz with a VX3 2.5-8 set in medium S&K Custom rings.


Not Charley's fault I left my drop sheet taped to the scope when I asked him to take a few pics.

[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/Pre%2064%20M70%20257%20Roberts/257RobertsL1.jpg[/img]

I've since gone to S&K low rings and the fit is superb! Sorry, my photography abilities are not the same as Charley's.
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/Pre%2064%20M70%20257%20Roberts/IMG_20110328_084735.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/Pre%2064%20M70%20257%20Roberts/IMG_20110328_084857.jpg[/img]

Again, the Leupold Lumina series scope caps are superb! I took this a month or so back.
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/Pre%2064%20M70%20257%20Roberts/IMG_20110226_133140.jpg[/img]

Hope you find what you're looking for! You have a VERY fine looking Pre64 there!

I like the 3.5-10 you're looking at but I feel it ruins the asthetics of this fine action as the scope looks a bit too long as you can see here. See how the scope hangs back too far.

[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/Pre%2064%20M70%20257%20Roberts/fc8a3b81.jpg[/img]

Alan

Hey Alan,

That's a great collection you have there! The 9.3x62 custom looks amazing (what kind of stock is that?), and I like the figure on the 257 Roberts. I'll have to talk to Redneck if I build an M70 based custom.

I have Alumina caps on my 2.5-8x36 and I agree, they rock! I like the low profile.

I don't plan to do too much more to the .30-06 now that I figured out the scope and bases/rings. I was close to giving up and going for a scope with a longer tube but I finally found a setup that would work. The pre 64 magnum hole spacing combined with the short scope length made it really challenging.

For anyone looking at the 2.5-8x36, it's a great scope with good clarity, FOV and practical range! I have zero regrets. I think it balances well with the M70.

Eric,

Thanks for the nice compliments.

The 9.3 stock is a D'Arcy Echols built by Mcmillan, for him, to his specs. A little more money but it fits me VERY nicely

http://www.echolsrifles.com/#/products.html

My bolt on the 9.3 has rub marks on it where it meets up agains the ocular housing of the scope. Their is NO way a pair of Butler Creeks would work thus the Alumina caps. I also like the Alumina caps magnetic and click closure.

Alan

Beautiful rifle, simply beautiful. I'm jealous.

Alan - Thanks for the link. Looks like a slick stock!

Magnumdood - Thanks for the compliments! Love your sig line, BTW.

This is an old thread, but I'm looking for a scope mount on my pre-64 that I don't have to do any tapping. The picture above seems like what I need. The rear mount screws into the left side of receiver using the existing screw holes where there is a peep sight option, and the front is a top mount using the 2 existing screws ontop just above the serial number on the receiver. Is this mount still available? or any idea where I can find a pair?
-David

Is your M70 D&T'd for a mount base on top of it's rear bridge?

Nothing on top of receiver in rear bridge.

It has the 2 screws on the left side rear of the receiver that were used for mounting a peep sight option I think, which my rifle doesn't have either. The photo in the above post looks like it will mount to the rear side of receiver.

It's a 1937 Winchester Model 70 labeled as (.30GOV'T'.06)

Below pic, the 2 screws on top above the serial # which look like they could be used for a mount.


This was my wife's grandfather's deer rifle. I realize the collector's value it holds, but I think he'd want it back in the field scoping some deer and not be a safe beauty. So that's my mission, get it back in the field but keep the originality of the piece. It hasn't seen light in 35 years. I suppose I could try to hunt with the iron sights, but if I can find the screw on mount pictured above without much fuss, that's the way I want to go.

My Pre-64 .300 H&H has a 2.5-8x36 Leupy that is about 30 years old. Every time I think I'll update it I talk myself out of it. It just works and handles perfectly. And I still hunt with it regardless of value. As my gunsmith who has several Pre 64's told me. "If you can't use it what good is it? And if you screw it up that bad I'll fix it."

He was right because this rifle is not for sale. When I kick it somebody will inherit her. As Col. Cooper said in "The Art of the Rifle." "The rifle is the queen of all weapons, and the queen is not for sale!"