Does any one know if this is legal????Thanks ahead Huntz

Depends on the country. I don't think you can ship one to canada. they are considered terroist equipement.

I don't believe it's legal, and I wouldn't do it no matter who says it is.

The US has restrictions on this so I would investigate. Doug at Cameraland would know the specifics I am sure.

Thanks,I will email him.

I am affraid Doug does not know. He will not ship outside the US. That is a shame as he has good prices on many scopes and is a good guy to deal with. I bought some binoculars from him, but he will not send a riflescope. His excuse was last time I asked "Cabellas once send something somewhere and got fined, so we won't as we could not afford being fined".
I believe there are restricted high spec military riflescopes and some restricted countries. Why would you not ship European sporting scope back to Europe where it was designed and manufactured? I bought many riflescopes from the US no problems. Some dealers are happy to send it, others as Doug prefer not to.
I would not ship S&B PM2 scopes to Iran though...

It depends on the country and the scope, but to many countries including Australia, there are no restrictions on sporting scopes.

Ignore Swampy on this one - he has no clue on this yet continues to peddle his misinformation.

I think the concern is ITAR regulations. (International Trafficing in Arms)Scopes might be subject to this.

I turned the gentleman down on selling the scope.Why take a chance over a small amount of money.I am very unlucky when taking chances.Huntz

It depends on the Scope type and the country. Night Vision above Gen 1 illegal period .

Lots of rules on this one. Leaving the US (our laws) it can't have any type of ranging (Mil-Dot, ballistic etc.) reticle. Night vision is a no-no and I think lighted reticles are forbiden too but I'm not 100% positive about that. Try to ship one of the above and you may get in some trouble and loss your optic to the US GOV.

Many receiving countries have laws too and it will depend on where you want to ship it. I've shipped scopes to Austria on two occasions without any trouble. The buyer said he would take the loss if there was a problem. Both went without any trouble.

Terry

I mailed an Ill ret meopta mounted on a sauer 202 to the states several months ago. There was some run around for the paperwork for the rifle but no one in the postal service cared about the scope.

It was interesting to put $3500 insurance on a package though, never done that before.

Yeah, ineffective ones!!!! What's the point of restricting the export of an item from the US when there are no such restrictions in the countries that item is legally exported to????



That's what I've been told by a couple of US retailers......but.....here comes the silly part, I can buy the same scopes, same brands etc, in this country, ranging reticles and all simply by going into a gunshop and parting with the appropriate amount of cash. The reason I choose to buy my optics out of the US is that they're cheaper than in this country.

Some US retailers have their heads around the regulations and the restricted items, the others just seem to put it into the 'too hard' basket.

Many years ago, I had an individual send me an item that I already owned. I had to pay a hellacious import fee that was 1/4 the cost of the item.
Country was Germany.

I try to buy scope base from here in Japan, to send to my father in the US from Midway, which is of course is in the US. I could post the emails, but they needed passport copies for me and my father. Needless to say, I gave up on buying a present for my father.

That your signature line, or just a comment?

If it's not your sig. line, can I borrow it?

I've purchased lots of scopes with various reticles from the USA and there has never been a problem.

I've never had a package inspected by US or Australian customs either, despite the Customs declaration/dispatch note stating there is a scope inside.

Seriously,every savvy Aussie hunter buys thier scopes from the USA.

Just a comment. If you like it feel free to use it, but don't bother to attribute it to me. I don't come here to pick fights generally, but have crossed swords with Swampy on export controls previously and he is just plain wrong.

There are no problems with bringing optics and stocks into Australia. It is entirely legal, and customs are really helpful if you give them a ring, and they have a really good information page on their website. Everybody who shoots premium glass is bringing it in from OS. The problems are with the exporting nation, and i find it very difficult to work out what entirely is legit from the US, and there are several different regulatory hurdles you have to leap. It is much more difficult than dealing with Australian customs. My guess is that some of the stuff i have bought could have been interpreted as restricted for export, but the reality is folks in the US have more important things to do than stop and search packages to Australia. A rifle scope exported to Australia is much less likely to be used on a terrorist's weapon against an american than the same scope sold inside the US, and i am sure authorities prioritise their efforts accordingly. I have never had a problem. I have received ranging reticle scopes, scope mounts, bedding equipment, stocks and even a Limbsaver and never had a problem. There are guys who are clearly then reselling gear in Australia for a profit. In fact, i am aware on many items if you buy retail in the US you are actually buying below the prices Australian retailers are paying. We really should be putting the heat on many distributors, who are just price gouging.

I love it when the Fed does a little quantitative easing - the whole of the US is on sale!

It's illegal and so is most of the other shipping advise these trolls give out. They don't have a clue. Do whatever you wish but be prepared to tell the arresting officers that the guys on the 24 Hour Campfire said it was ok.

I'll bet Bricktop knows the straight scoop.........more so than you!

Sorry mate,your wrong. I buy scopes from the US all the time - its not illegal.

don't mind Swampy. he doesn't know schitt, and he has to make that fact painfully obvious to everybody.

Not legally....

Yes, it can be done legally. Certain countries are on the list of "Do not export firearms or related items", and back when the restrictions were put in place a few years ago, then PM Jean Chretien opted to not be excluded from the list when given the choice. Canada is on the list for that reason. In order to send a scope from the US to Canada, an export permit must be applied for and obtained from the US dept of Commerce, then an import permit must be obtained from the CDN government. Then the scope can legally be sent from the US to Canada. I'm sure the process is similar for other countries that are also on that list.

Nonsense.

Although not all US businesses will bother with exporting a scope, it takes them just a few weeks to get an export permit.

John

Ah, I see Jordan Smith and I were writing the same thing -- at the same time.

John

If it's illegal you f*%ckwit, perhaps you should advise Leupold they broke the law by returning the 3x I sent in for a service six weeks ago.
It's now back in my hands no paperwork except the note saying what was done to the scope.

FYO, you've just joined ISS in my ignore list...enjoy!!

You dont even need a export permit - not to Australia anyway. Just put it in a box,fill out the customs declaration/dispatch note and send it. Its that easy... and perfectly legal.

Don't bother guys, Swampy is a moron and is determined to share the fact over and over again. Remember - never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

For anyone interested in the facts, US export controls on scopes are well documented, and it is perfectly legal to export to a large number of countries. Here is an earlier post with a summary of the situation regarding shipping to Australia:

If a scope is built to military specification for use by the military it is governed by the U.S. State Department (http://pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/consolidated_itar/2009/Part_121.pdf).

Riflescopes and sighting devices that are not manufactured to military specifications qualify as "commercial items" and are governed by the U.S. Department of Commerce under the Export Administration Regulations (EAR). The Commerce Country Chart located in the Export Administration Regulations, Supplement 1 to Part 738 is a comprehensive list of the countries for which an export license for riflescopes is required. The table shows Australia has no Crime Control (CC1) or Firearms Convention (FC1) controls is here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/738spir.pdf

The controls document referred to in the EAR(ECCN 0A987) is here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl0.pdf
The Optical Sights section is on page 7.

In summary, riflescope exports are controlled to certain countries, but Australia has no restrictions so neither an export permit from the US nor an import permit from the Australian side is required.

I've tried to buy from CL a couple of times but Doug won't send a riflescope overseas...

Yep, I found that out too. Different business models for different businesses.. Camerland has chosen to deal within the USA only and that is clearly working for them, but other companies DO want export business.

www.Europtic.com EUROPTIC LINK will send scopes out of the US. They just need a bit of time to get the export permit (if needed for your country).

Great prices without crippling shipping charges, and fantastic service from a real gentleman (Alex Roy).

On Europtic's webpage, just click on Customer Service, then Export Policy -- a lot of text, but do NOT let it bother you. Alex will do all the work for you!

John

thanks, jpb!

myself and several of my friends have had flawless service from Alex@eurooptc. usually the item arrives within the week.

You are very welcome.

They are a good company and I hope they make lots of money meeting the needs of shooters outside the USA!

John

This thread is a perfect example of the sad mess America and the world is in. Government has no business regulating in this area, or doing anything to slow down commerce. This world isn't here for Governments to enjoy it is here for you and I to live in.

siskiyous6,

Agreed! These are just riflescopes and not shoulder-launched missiles or something that terrorists would really want.

John

I'm in absolute and total agreement.

A couple of years ago it was possible for individuals in Australia to import barrels from US manufacturers. No problems this end, just one piece of paper authorizing customs to release the barrel to the person importing and that was that.
But then came US export licences etc etc and fees to go with all of that and so that option died a natural death.

They are restrictions for the sake of restrictions, no terrorist has been inconvenienced by them or is likely to be.
The only people they affect are ordinary people trying to enjoy their hobby and sport.

It's called keeping hardware out of terrorist's hands. Since my son is in Iraq, I fully support not exporting anything that can be used by snipers.

It's illegal and should be.

Well I agree with Ron Paul that we don't belong out there policing the world either. Armed citizens on any of those planes could have stopped them from flying into those buildings. I am sick of Big Brother and the Nanny State, and of Empire.

Ever hear of the Bureau of Industry & Security? They enforce some pretty interesting statutes, as Cabela's, Bass Pro and quite a few others have found out a bit late in the game. export control enforcement

Ignorance can be costly, not only in penalties but in human lives. There's too much at stake to rely on internet wisdom.

Yes, the BIS is part of the Dept of Commerce which manages the processes I outlined in my earlier post.

Swampy, I have Aussie mates in Iraq and Afganistan fighting alongside US troops. I have no problem with restriction of trade where it will supply terrorists.

You are still completely incorrect when you make blanket statements about the export of scopes from the US being illegal. The information I have posted is not internet hearsay, it is your own government's official position as posted on their credible websites. If you can post a link to a US government site which supports your claim go ahead otherwise please stop misinforming the readers of this forum.

Absolutely correct.International Traffic in Arms Regulations has strict regulations as to what can and can't be exported to foreign countries. Most military type scopes or those with mil type reticles can't be exported without an posessing an export license or having an approved exemption from ITAR by the US state department.

ITAR violations can result in severe fines and imprisonment.

I don't think there are any foreign bad guys gnashing their teeth because they can't get their hands on a Leupold or Nightforce.

As we all know the Chinese are producing very good optics and they don't give a bugger who they sell to.
You can stick your finger in one hole in a leaky boat but if there's twenty other holes, what's the point??

So was the for mentioned invasion of Iraq (arguably), the subsequent use of white phosphorus, as well as the collective punishment that has been imposed on various cities throughout the country since the invasion.
If you are worried about getting sniped by some dude that bought a rifle scope online, in a private sale, that he had shipped to another country (then presumably reimported, along with some sort of gun), I have a tin foil hat I'd like to sell ya.
The reason they ban export of certain optics is because they were imported from somewhere else, to the US, and other countries would like to enforce import tariffs on stuff that is imported (go figure). If someone in the US buys a swarovski scope then shipps it to his buddy (who is actually paying for it) somewhere else, the other country will miss out of the tax of the imported good.

I know, I know all taxes are bad (after all fruit from the money tree builds bridges, roads, and police forces right?), and government is gonna come git cher gunz, but could just one thread not devolve in to a John Burch Society errr I mean Ron Paul pipedream err celebration

I would avoid sending a scope to New York City, it is the biggest foreign country I have ever been in.