Any opinions of the Z3? I'm considering the 3-9x36 for my M70 EW.

I'm told the AV and Z3 are basically the same thing (the Z3 replaced the AV). I have a 3-10x42 AV that I like a lot. It's been mechanically reliable and is optically excellent. I do spin the stock turret and shoot mine to 600 yards or so.

I've got 4 3-9's and 2 3-10's that I've mounted and sighted in with absolutely no problems and 1 of the 3-9's has been used extensively.

I've been a Leupold guy and have typically used 2.5-8's through all the model years and switched those out for the Swaro's I'm using now. I do like the Swaro 3-9x36 better than Leupold glass-wise. Dependability and repeatability I guess time will tell...but good so far. They're about the same size and weight as the 2.5-8 as well.

I have two and like them a lot. They are the perfect size for a lightweight mountain rifle.

Same scope. I love all of mine as well...

I didn't like mine.

Curious why... Care to elaborate?

I'm scoping my new 280AI KS and looking for a compact.

Got More Than a Few, Nary A Problem with Any..

Because it didn't match all of his gay-ass swirly stocks. Mine looks great on my Kimber.

You're always cranky when you finish up with your late night glory hole job.


I didn't like the eye-relief and sure didn't see that if offered me anything a 3.5-10x Leupold offered, except for less cash in my pocket.

Thankfully I traded it for a 3.5-10x and cash.

I looked at the Leupold 3.5-10 and Z3 3.5-10 side by side today. To my eye the Z3 had noticeably better glass, and I like the constant eye relief, the reticle a bit more, along w/the smoother power ring. The big question is, is the Z3 worth just about double the Leupold?

If you like dependability, yes.

I think you made a few typos, might want to correct.

I got all 4 of mine when LL Bean had them for 30% off the $749 price. If not for the sale, I wouldn't have bought them. I've just had too much good luck with Leupold. But at that price, I just couldn't resist.

That'd be hard to pass up!

I can see how Scott could prefer the 3.5-10 eye relief. The Leup and Swaro (and Conquest) do eye relief completely differently. There's things to like about both approaches IMHO.

I'm gonna send mine off for the 4a reticle this winter. That should be pretty bitchin'.

How so Jeff?

What do you base this on?

I'd like to know also. I know more Swaro's that have [bleep] the bed than Leupold's. I know for a fact I've been up the mountain and back with Leupold. So for twice+ the money for lesser eye-relief and a [bleep] up, long ass eye piece is your gig, go Swaro.

Just one guy's experience, but I was told by a dealer that the ones with the coil spring erector assemblies (Z5 and Z6) were pretty durable and trouble free scopes.

That most of the problems he has seen were with Swaro's models that have the leaf style erector spring (Z3's and AV's)

Makes sense, but just talk.

I've not had any problems with the 4 swaros I own, 3 Z 3's and 1 Av. I'm quite happy with them.

Not with me it isn't.....and since no one asked me, I'll answer anyway

That's the issue I ran into,and figure I just must have had bum luck,because others seem to be doing well with them.But my AV, a 3-9, had a sneaky creeping erector and changed POI between power settings....cost me a very large mule deer,and about drove me nuts figuring this out.

A Z6 on a 300 Weatherby that behaved well for a pal (and me, since I shot the outfit to 500 yards a few times)for a couple of years,suddenly went sour.The rifle went back to the maker, who swapped the Z6 out for a Leupold and things were back to normal.Optically wonderful, that Z6 bought the farm after a couple hundred rounds on the 300.

That's it for me....I'm done.Seen enough.

I'm with Scott on the 3.5-10X Leupold..or a fixed 6X.....if I am gonna spend more than that, I'll spend way more and get a Schmidt Bender;and in that power category make it a Summit for me.I'll put up with a few more ounces.No AV hangs with a Schmidt optically..In the price range approaching $1500k-$2k, it ain't gonna be a Swaro at any price.

The bins are great, but they can keep the scopes..JMHO.

This is exactly the info I wanted. I appreciate the input on the scope's guts and experiences. No Swaro scopes for me now.

I'm all about some Swaro binoculars though, love the things, but no scopes.

I'm also with Bob, if I feel the need to drop coin on a Euro it would certainly be a Spit and Bendher.

I would be a pissed off hombre if I spent that kind of coin and had 2 go tits up.

Can't blame you Bob.

Not calling anybody out because reading about others' personal experiences with products is helpful. But if I based my optics choices on what anybody says on the internet, my only option would be open sights. Plenty of pages here with gripes about Leupold. Same with Swaro. I love Leupold and I've never had a major problem with them and I'll keep using them primarily. And I'll also continue to use the Swaros that I currently own.

But if I were going on a once-in-a-lifetime hunt and I knew I might only have one shot.....I'm going with a Leupold 6x42 with a M1 elevation turret. And my backup scope in the duffle will be.......a Leupold 6x42.

Damn! I just realized that I resent resemble that remark!

Seems plausible as there has been several threads on this Forum (and a few others) expressing dissatisfaction with the AV's not holding POI or otherwise puking. I seem to recall djpaintless had an internal lens pop loose.

I've had an AV 3.5-10x42mm that wouldn't hold zero (much like BobinNH describes). Swaro fixed it, and it now resides on my daughters .17HMR

I have found that the ER on the AV/Z3 can be a little critical and obviously their eye box is not as generous as Leupold.

The Swaro PH/PV series were better built. Issue I take with them is their weight/bulk and short ER.

Leup's are longest at low magnification, and it shortens as the power is turned up.

My Swaro AV and Conquests have their longest ER in roughly the middle of the power setting; it's shortest at both extremes. However, it's more constant than the Leup method.

As a practical matter, I really like the very long ER and fat eyebox that say a Leup 2.5-8 has at low powers. However, I really don't like how much it shortens, and how short it gets, at full power.

To take a shot at the Swaro and Conquest method, they don't have their best ER/EB at their lowest powers- which is arguably where it matters most for quick shots and whatnot.

You'll never hear me truly knock the better Leup's; they've worked well for me, mostly. That said, I do really like my AV and it's also worked very well for me. And it kicks sand in the face of the 2.5-8's I've compared it to in low light.

Hmmm, Swaro breaking...not heard any Conquests at half the cost failing.

Bobin, what you need there is a 6x42 S&B Heck, perhaps I do too!

65: Maybe!

Thanks for that info Bob . As I too have a 3-10x42 AV.
I will check this out when I get my 9.3 barrel..........Which should be early next year.

340: Likely yours is fine.I could have been one of the unlucky one's.....others have had good results.

I don't want to be snake bit twice.

Tough to beat the overall design of the AV/Z3 scopes. They are Leupold Compact and have superb optics. That said the single leaf spring design in their erector system vs the new VX-3 double leaf is outdated. Why they use a more positive system with their Z5 series and don't incorporate it into their Z3 is confusing as well. It's like they are saying if you want a more bullet proof scope buy the Z5. WTF I thought Swaro was supposed to stand for superior optics AND reliability.

I've never returned a Swaro back for repair & used AV scopes for many yrs. Like so many on the 'Fire, Leupolds & Burris I have returned.

Swarovski is top shelf, although some can always find a reason to not spend the xtra $$. I've heard Swaro has one repair tech in RI with very few returns.

I'll stick with the best Zeiss,Swaro,S&B, on my CF rifles.

I decided to use the scope brand with NO reported problems on the Internet.

So I sold all my Leupold's, Conquests, and Swaro's and instead now use:

I recentlty puchased a new demo model Z3 3-10-42 from my local shop. I really was not looking for one and this one had the ML recticle which is a little busy for my use, but the shop gave me what I think was a pretty nice deal. Buyers remorse has come and gone several times since the purchase. It usually leaves when I sit on my back poarch and compare side by side with a VX2. The crispness and clarity differences are noticiable, especially at 250 or so yards. Will it help me kill more deer...probably not. Here comes the remorse again.

Do the same test at last legal light; might help with the remorse!

Btw, OP - I'd not have a problem whatsoever running a Z3 fwiw.

Bobin - you DO have a 4x32 S&B correct? Did not have one IIRC at SHOT awhile back but did peer thru the 6x42 as the 1.5-6 flashdot. Both impressed.

Stoney, money aside, no doubt I agree, if you want the best, the 'alpha 3' are the pinnacle.

Jeff, speaking of the best, that is it - a PINNACLE A-BxC mm

My AV had the same symptoms as BobinNH......Swaro fixed it and I sold it.

They do seem to have some duds, no doubt about it.

I owned four AV 3-10x42s, and never had a problem with any of them. The easily survived several horseback hunts, as well as the recoil of my RUMs, and they tracked well, and held their zeros just fine.

65: No, I have the 4X Conquest.I have only seen the 4X S&B in a store.

Impossible!

Bobin, my bad, no doubt, hard to beat a Conquest for value as optics superb. STILL waiting on a 6x....one day I may just take a 3-9 and use blue tape or loc-tite and make my own

Me too.

Amazing how a Z3 sold very quickly on the classifieds today when they're supposedly crap. I'm just sorry I didn't get to it first!

I have an older 3x9x36 A NOVA (predecessor to AV) that I got for a song in the mid-90s. I have used it extensively, have some likes and dislikes.

LIKES: It is better in dim light that it should be, and has gotten game that other scopes wouldn't have been able to discern (in legal shooting light early a.m.). Until that past fall, it has been repeatable and durable.

DISLIKES: Power ring assembly is way too big, bulky. Eye relief poor; not even close to Leupold 2.5x8 (though a pretty forgiving eye box). I found it wandering a few inches in the vertical plane this fall (luckily at the range, not on game); could have been enough to miss a big game animal. It's at Swarovski USA, has been there for almost two months, nothing heard (that's certainly not the way Leupold treats its customers, but in fairness, when I spoke to them on the phone before sending, they said it would take a month to six weeks).

I expect I'll keep it when it gets back, again, because of it's light gathering capability in relation to its bulk.

Well Im going to try the Z3 3-9x38 (plex) They list for $750.00. If I dont like it I will probably just sell it right off. Usually I can tell right away wether or not I like something or not. If I dont like it and decide to just sell it is anyone interested in it? Just let me know and I could save you a few bucks if I decide to sell.

What the heck. Shoot me a PM if/when you sell. I might be interested.

Thanks.