How does these compare to a Zeiss victory or a Swaro EL non HD. I'm wanting to pull the trigger on a set but don't want to make a thousand dollar mistake.

I'll give you my 2 cents worth FWIW.

I've had the Razor HD for a year. At the gun show we had here before Christmas one of the booths is a Vortex dealer and he had one of the new Razor HD's. You will get some opinion from some quarters that Vortex is too crappy a company to expect anybody to pay that kind of money for anything Vortex. I had a couple of issues with the Razor HD I have. First I had some trouble with the focus/diopter ring, one day it just came apart in my hand. Vortex fixed it. I eventually reached the conclusion that the binocular was a bit off spec in a couple of collimation parameters and sent a detailed note with the binocular back to Vortex. Vortex does indeed stand up to their warranty, and they fixed the collimation issues and I have a better binocular. The OPTICS are first rate and do indeed stand up without any embarrassment to much more expensive optics stuff.

Looking at the two Razor HD's side by side I was struck by a couple of points. The first is that the original HD Razor I have is not as well built, nor does it have the more refined sense of "panache" (for lack of a better term) possessed by the new RAZOR HD. The new Razor HD is a hell of a lot more compact in nature, it feels smaller than the old on more than the degree that it should simply based on the physical size differences. The new one looks like the product of a lesson learned on the part of Vortex...if you are going to sell $1.000+ binoculars, they should look the part.

The optics on each are exceptionally nice. The older one has a wider fov, the newer one has sharper edges, so the sweet spot is about a wash. The newer on is the one I'd pick it just looks better built than the original one. As far as "stand up to the alphas" goes, I'll say this. If you cant see what you need with the Razor HD, the optics are NOT the issue.

Now, however I'll throw another monkey wrench into the deal here. I got a good look at a Zeiss Conquest HD the other day. The new Razor HD is $1,279.00. The new Conquest is $969.00. I like the Conquest HD better than either of the Razor HD's. I like the Conquest HD as well as the Victory FL. The Zeiss does not have any better view than the Razor, but I can say it is more of a "whole package presentation" to me. That new Conquest HD was the first $1,000 strata binocular that maybe says to me it might be worth it to me. The rest of the higher end stuff, including the Victory FL have always said to me they cost way too much for the gain. I had purposely avoided reading anything about the new Conquest until I had the chance to look at one, and I was sort of surprised to see $969 on the tag. I would have figured closer to $1,400 from what I felt and saw.

Just noticed Doug has the Conquest HD 10X42 demo for $800.

(No offense intended, and not being argumentative) SteveC....that is exactly Vortex's problem with a $1250 Razor, a problem we have discussed before. When faced with a choice of spending $1250 on a Razor, SLCNeu demo, Zeiss FL demo, evidently the Conquest HD, and probably a couple I'm missing, close to nobody will ever choose a Razor. I know it wouldn't even enter the equation if it were my choice.

JG, I agree with you, which is one reason I posted about the Zeiss. If the Razor was the same price, we'd have a whole different game, but as nice as the Razor is, not many are going to buy one when several hundred less buys just as much.

Wait for the SHOT show and we'll see some more stiff competition on the $1,000 range.

Rodger that SteveC. Do you have any scoop on a new Gold Ring HD by any chance?

I have to agree on the perceived value of any Vortex as compared to high end optics names we've known for decades. The same problem exists for the Kowa Genesis, Brunton Epoch, and Alpen Ranier binoculars. I particularly liked the Alpen Raniers on closeout when a sporting goods store changed hands but couldn't justify that purchase while starting my own business. I've looked through the Kowa Genesis at a well stocked optics shop and they're second to none but the sales guy said he doesn't sell too many compared to Zeiss or Swarovski's at nearly the same price point.

vortex is a great company with good optics, however they do change and refine models frequently, so that means blow out prices of the old models at some point. when you are spending that much money does it makes sense to buy something that might be blow out priced a couple years from now, this can and does effect resale value. if you stick with the big 3 you will always get your money back when its time to upgrade. I personally would stay at or below the viper lineup with vortex, the razor line is just too close in price to the big 3. plus when you pull out your binoculars its nice feeling a bit snobbish with them saying zeiss, leica, or swaro on them. if I had $1200 to spend on binoculars, you can bet they would be a big 3 name brand.

I bought a pair of Conquest HD 10x42 from Scott's Outdoors for $779. He had 12 left at the time so he may be out of stock now but worth a call. Also you get $100 rebate from Zeiss.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/909076057/ZEISS_CONQUEST_10X42_HD_BINOCULAR_NEW_IN_BOX.htm