While at the Dallas Safari Club Convention today, I got to handle the new Leupold VX-6 3-18. I must say, it is AWESOME. I also looked through the new Zeiss Conquests HD's. They too are AWESOME as were the Swarovskis. Really, the Lupey was right there, I would buy the Lup but already got the Z-5. Got tired of waiting. The Leupold rep said they were shipping now.

I looked through a Vortex HD LR 4-16 at the same booth with the scopes above, really???!!! It looked like the Vortex had vaseline all over the lenses, it was horrible, at least compared to these above. NOW WAIT...the Leupold VX-R was right up there too and was 10000 times brighter/clearer than the Vortex. I was about to buy a Vortex HDLR, but not now. If It can't be a VX-6, it will be the VX-R,

By the way, this show was friggin awesome. It was a who's who of the hunting world. All the personalities from all the TV shows were there. It was cool seeing them as "real" people, like us.

Gosh, if I can just win the Lotto tonight, I will be back there tomorrow!

Good info. I'm ready to hear some in the field reviews on those scopes.

Were the scopes mounted on anything?

no, they were on display tables

Good scoop. Thanks for sharing. It sounds like a fun show!

Eric

Price?

They say they have stock...starting at $1100

Optics Planet: V6 3-18x44

There are 15 at the distribultor here in Canada. All illumintated reticles. Price? $1500

Sounds awesome!

Sorry, but I'm not paying 1100 for a Leupy. Not when a Swaro or Zeiss high end is just a few 100 more.

A few hundred? try twice as much and you'd be close. I was at DSC also and that VX6 is very impressive, and I wa surprised how nice that VXR was....very nice for sure. The glass in that Conquest HD was very nice too. I tried my best with every optic I handled, to look up in the nooks and crannies of the ceiling shadows since we were obviously inside. They had one of the HD's with the new ballistic turret on it. I asked the Zeiss rep a few questions and was very surprised when he told me "if I were you I'd just get the Kenton turret". He also told me he thought the only way to get the ballistic elevation turret was to get the ballistic windage turret also. I'm not sure if he was right but that is strange to me. The eyepiece on the HD is also pretty bulky. Not HT binos to look at, thought that was a bummer. I really like everything about the Swaro El Range, except the ergos sucked IMO. I hate the big bumps on the bottom of the barrels. Probably the most impressive bino I looked through was a Kowa Genesis Prominar 10x44 I think it was. It has been tweaked since I had a pair about 3 years ago, with a new coating and zero "rolling ball". It is as sharp and bright as anything I saw in the whole building, including EL SV's, SLC HD,s, Ultravid HD's, etc. Very, very well built too. I did take a minute to tell the Leica guys they ought to be ashamed of themselves for "offering" a 10 yr pre owned and demo warranty. It's too bad because they have some fantastic glass. GreatWapiti if your reading this....those HD Geovids' blew me away buddy....fantastic stuff. Lastly, from a Leupold rep (take it FWIW), Leupold will have a McKinley HD bino out in a couple of months supposedly. They say it promises to "blow your mind" for $600. We'll see I guess. Great show IMO. It took me two days to see everything.

For $600 I'll guess that the McKinley HD is from Asia ?

It's gotta be RD. I berated the guys over discontinuing a hellaciously good Gold Ring HD with no replacement in sight (none for 2013 either I was told). They told me it(GR HD)was 100% produced in house, and there was just no way to do that and be competitive at the pricepoint they wanted. If you remember it was well over $1000 until the closeout prices came along.

I got to find a dealer near me that has those new Conquest HD 5's in stock to take a look. Wish someone else would be the guinea pig though for field testing and durability.

Glass was sweet, and the duplex reticle was more like the VX3's which I think is a good thing. That is the one thing I'm not crazy about on my Conquest.

Which is a better low light reticle between the Zeiss (HD 5) and Leupold ?

They look so similar to me I'd just be guessing really. I only saw them indoors too. On the regular conquest it would wash out for me a couple or 3 minutes earlier than the Leupold duplex. I bet that's changed now that the thinner wires on the HD are a little thicker.

You talking about Leupold's standard duplex or the heavy duplex ?

Standard. Just to clarify what I'm comparing to.....my Conquest has the ZPlex, which is configured like the Leupold wide duplex. The thick part of the reticle is great, and the thin part is too thin for my tastes. I use it and shoot it but I wish it were like the std duplex VX3. The Zplex I saw on the Conquest HD was configured like the Leupold std duplex...thicker wires closer together and thinner wires thicker than my Conquest.

Couple point/questions


Is a SWaro slc HD Bino twice as good as a meopta meostar?
It does cost twice as much


Also the 3-9x40 conquest has always had a real duplex, the 3.5-10x44 and the others all had a wider duplex but not te 3-9x40, I've owned both.

No, it's not twice as nice. It's not twice as nice as a Gold Ring HD either.
I own and was talking about the Conquest 3.5-10x44. Sorry for the confusion.

Ayone have a handle on the weight of the 44mm? Internet search didn't turn up much

19.5 oz. on the 44 and almost 21 oz. on the 50 mm. That was a from a leupy tech as of last week.


Roy

Thanks Roy

Anyone know why leupold doesn't or won't put windage hash marks in their scopes. Sure would be nice to hold for wind instead of dialing. A VX-6 3-18 with windage marks would be the ultimate longrange scope without stepping up to the nightforce class of scope.


JMHO. Thanks Roy

Can u get the VX6 with a windage dail or just an elevation turret?


Roy

A Swaro Z5- $1450 all day long.......

Hate to break it to you skywalker, but you said "high end". Swaro's is the Z6 which are $2k+, same with Zeiss HT, their "high end". A 2-12 VX6 is $799 "all day long".

Where is the 2-12 VX-6 for $799? All I have seen have been $899. Thanks.

I got mine used on Ebay for $600, delivered.

DF

JGRaider- u need to get on opticstalk, you'd fit right in.


A swaro Z5 is a 'high end' optic, btw.

dirt- $600, yep, that is doable. Not $1100.

Negative on OpticsTalk. I definitely don't fit it with that bunch. It's not worth arguing over anyway. If you say the Z5 is high end, then the Z6 is higher end, how's that? I'm not a Swaro scope lover like most here. If you think the Z5 is worth almost twice the money as a VX6 then get a big helpin' of it. I know better.

Gottem both, it ain't...!

DF

When you're looking for the most glass with the least amount of weight the z5 IS worth the extra cash.

How is this almost 'twice' the $?

skywalker

Yes, the Swarovski is 3.6oz lighter, that is true. But, the VX6 is at least equal to, and to my eyes, better optically than those Swarovski models. For dialing turrets I also find the CDS system nicer that the Ballistic Turret - although I understand Swarovski now has a CDS style retrofit for $99. The one thing that is FAR superior on the Leupold is the eyebox.

I am a big Swarovski fan, but these VX6's are the real deal. The only caveat is that they are new. Will I be happy two years from now? I certainly hope so!

I think I'd get another VX-6 than another Z5. I agree that the CDS is the better deal for turrets. The Swaro BT, IMHO, is a joke. I got an Outdoorsmans turret to retrofit the BT set up. It's nice, but a bunch more money than the CDS.

The Z3 duplex is OK, the Z5 duplex, a bit too thin for hunting, my kinda hunting anyway. Not sure about the Z6. To me, the VX-6 duplex is about ideal.

Higher end Swaro glass may edge the VX-6, but not by enough to justify the difference in cost. Not sure the Z3 beats out the VX-6.

Those are my observations and opinion, YMMV.

DF

skywallker......one more time, read slowly.

JGRaider- the OP is talking about 3-18X42, so apples to apples......man, you would fit in over on opticstalk AND could run for Senator as a Democrat........why would the price of a 2-12X42 even be an issue here?

Take your own advice.......READ posts SLOWLY.

Man, that's a low blow, throwing JG in with the politicians. You could have said some really bad stuff about him, kinder than that...

DF

He's on the warpath isn't he Dirt? I've already told him it's not worth arguing about. Yeah, calling me a politician is a cheapshot for sure! Sky, I'm just trying to show you why I've said the things I've said, that's all. If you're in love with the Z5 that just tickles me to no end. BTW, next time call me an azzwhole or something besides a politician, please.

Yeah, "politician" is the "nuclear option" of insults, the lowest of all possible low blows...

DF

He coulda said politician from New Yawk city

I'm only messin fellas........I thought that was kinda funny....u know you got a chuckle out of it.

New Yawk City.....I didnt go that far..............

Yeah, low is low. But that one...!

Scraping the bottom of the barrel...

DF

Skywalker: Yes check your prices again and then correct your posting.
And the other reason I disagree completely with your posting
- I would much rather own and use the American made scope that supports American jobs and the American economy!
Your posting:
"Sorry, but I'm not paying 1100 for a Leupy. Not when a Swaro or Zeiss high end is just a few 100 more".
Reconsider your misguided stance, please - American jobs depend on it. ESPECIALLY when the REAL unemployment rate in America is just above 14%!
Long live Leupold & Stevens Corporation - an American Company!
Hold inot the wind
VarmintGuy

JG. He likes the Z5 a much as you like the Slc-hd :-)

The Z6's plex is very thin. Much too thin for my taste.

And the Z3 glass does not beat out the VX6. I've compared them side by side in failing light. Interestingly we also had a VX-II at the range that evening and, after looking and shooting through the Z3 and VX6 the view through the VX-II was like looking through ginger-ale.

You know, my friend and I were just talking about this at lunch today. It seems that most people know the price of almost everything and the value of very few things. Sure, there are some high tech Chinese companies putting out good glass these days, and the price is very low. BUT, I'd rather save my pennies and try to keep the middle class manufacturing jobs as close to home as possible.

Got it. Truth be known though, I really, really like that Meopta HD, and the GR HD. I could be just as happy using those two instead.

I want a meopta 7x42hd!

Good one.

DF

So all Leupold products are made in the USA? Hmmm......might want to check your facts on that.

quote = Terry Cross

I apologize in advance but I have to rant for a second.

I have always been a huge, huge Leupold advocate. They were always my benchmark for quality, innovation and U.S. workmanship. I own an awful lot of their product and continue to use it regularly.

However. . . . In the last few years, I have seen a change in the way Leupold does business and delivers product to the market. As they have grown, they have embraced many less than admirable traits that seem to define too many parts of American businesses. While their pricing has been steadily increasing at a faster rate than inflation, their quality has dropped. They are still capable of producing a sharp, repeatable optic but not as dependably.

My biggest aggravation with Leupold is the fact that less than 5% of their product line that can be legally stamped "Made in U.S.A." and I'm not even sure that those few are !!! What started out with a few of their Wind River imports has blown into an all out effort to prostitute their name brand for a dollar.

I just received 18 RX-4 range finders, 18 Mk4 10x50 Patrol Binoculars and 18 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm TMR Illum. scopes for a package deal I have to ship. This is pretty much suppossed to be their better gear. Guess what? Range finders "Made In CHINA". Binoculars "Made In China". Scopes have no country of origin marked on the packaging, instructions or product. Call back from Leupold informs me that the scopes are assembled in Oregon but so many of the parts and sub-assemblies are made over-seas (mostly China except for some of their lenses)that they do not qualify for the Made in USA stamp!

I can assure you that sourcing their components and products from China has dropped their costs very, very dramatically while they have continued to raise market prices. You know, honestly, it isn't even the price/profit thing that burns me. It is the fact that they chose to move their sourcing and manufacturing (I do consider "manufacturing" and "assembly" two different beasts in this instance) out of the country and specifically China. Why couldn't they keep most of their production here and just up their pricing 10%? Jesus, I could drop my selling price and triple my profit on freakin Pod-Loc kits if I used components from outside the U.S., but I refuse to go there. Guess that is why I still drive a 10 year old truck.

While they may still have satisfactory product performance and at least attempt innovative ideas occaisionally, I believe that they are straying from their roots, pumping a ton of money into foreign factories and putting yet another hole in the bottom of the lifeboat that retains at least a small fraction of our ability to domestically support our police and military logistics in the event of any serious conflict. I remain firmly convinced that we shall sorely curse the day that we wake up and realize that we need to raise our military to a task only to find out we have cut off our own legs. I aim this statement not only at Leupold but other textile, steel, electronics and molding industries based in the U.S. You don't just start that [bleep] back up inside the U.S. borders overnight.

I will continue to use my original Leupold products but I shall migrate away from giving their company blanket support. I will, instead continue to give more and more support to companies that take risks, accept slightly lower margins and consciously make the effort to strengthen our own economy and workforce. As you purchase your gear or spec out the equipment for your agency bids, please consider more than F.O.V. and click value.

I would seriously love to debate the execs at Leupold in front of their Board about some of this.

DISCLAIMER: I know that some out there will have personal budgets at home that restrict your choices to imports and I totally respect that. A non-US product is better than no product at all in some cases.

DISCLAIMER #2: Yeah, that was more than a second. Sorry.





dave

Old news, about the 10th time you posted it, but you're the cut and past king dave, taking top honors from E. Congrats!

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but who said all Leupold products are made in the USA?

You can make it 11 now....


dave

Get back to us when you have something relevant to say E, I mean dave.

Wish someone would ask one of the deep thinkers at Leupold why they can't make hydro type coatings for their scopes.

Sorry their resources these days are limited to melting diamonds for diamond coating who needs hydor coatings

I already gave you that job RD. WTH you been doing?

No one said ALL products, but someone posted they buy Leupold because its made in the USA.........do you only buy certain scopes from Leupy and you have called to confirm that ALL parts are manufactured in the USA and that nothing comes from outside our borders? Nope so why even get on that soapbox?

I said:


Obviously not an absolute. But, imo, it is better than doing nothing. I do my best to check labels on everything. I am not naive enough to think there won't be out-surced components. However, I would rather buy: Made in Canada/USA before Assembled in Canada/USA, and Assembled in Canada/USA before Made in China.

Bushnell has Rainguard lenses on their Japanese and Chinese made scopes. Maybe Leupold needs to check out those vendors...

I would think there's a big market place out there...

And, they could still assemble them at home...

DF

Maybe I could order a objective lense and ocular lense from Bushnell and have Leupold's Custom Shop install them on a VX-6.

If I have to send another scope back to Leupold in 2013, I'm gonna be done with them.

And I really like Leupold.


Travis

Would that be a Leushnell or a Bupold?

The 4-12 I bought last year is going back for the second time cause it won't hold zero and it's only on a 270.

It could only be a BetterPold

I bought a brand new MK4 LR/T Super-duper-whatever-the-[bleep] in 6.5-20X50mm. Went titts up in less than 50 rounds on a 12lb .308. I was so disgusted I am just now sending it off. Been sitting on my book shelf for about three weeks.


Travis

I remember the days when they actually made a durable and reliable scope.

And before that, I had M1's put on by the Custom Shop on my 6X42, and that thing required about 12 clicks to move 1 MOA @ 100yds. Box, it up. Back to Leupold. Wait two weeks, put it back on...

Made my vagina swell with anger.


Travis

Scope troubles really pizz me off. I don't shoot high round counts annually like lots of guys around here, so if I start having trouble I'm gonna find something that I won't have tourble with. I'm not a brand loyalist guy to begin with. I like dependable "stuff" period.

Same here.


Travis

Gents,
I have 2 of them. The standard duplex and the B&C reticle. Both illuminated. To me, they are the perfect scope for what I do and dont cost 2K. I really prefer the B&C width as it seems to subtend about .250 at 100. The duplex subtends slightly over .500 at 100, both at 16-18x. Both are extremely clear and definetly compete in sharpness with both my Swaro Z5 3-18 and the 6-18PH.Both seems to be a step up in clarity from the VX3 clan.
Hopefully I will buy another soon, for me they are the perfect blend of power, clarity and size.
Bill

The 2-12X42 for around $650 range does interest me, but I want some field reports. I want to put one on a .280, seems likes a sweet combo if the new Leupy checks out in the field.

I've had mine for 1 season, maybe +100 rounds on a 7mm RM. I have no problems with it and it compares very favorably to the Z3. I used it on several deer hunts and in poor lighting/weather conditions on a moose hunt in October and so far I am very happy.