Ok, I am in the market for a new rangefinder and have been doing my fair amount of research before I buy. I have seen numerous places where guys rave about the leica rangefinders over the Vortex Ranger. The Cameraland Demo deal on the Lieca LRF 1000 brings the two companies into the same price range. My issue is , I just cant justify spending my money on a rangefinder that is only warrantied for 3 months VS one that has a lifetime warranty. I would love a Leica but we all know how elwctronics can be and the warranty issue alone is going to force me to purchase the Vortex.

Thoughts?

There's been a thread thumping of Vortex in progress for several days I have neither but for my money a good warranty is the trump card most times in comparable items.Just my 2 cents

...Until you try to look through the crappy optics on that Vortex at first or last light and can't see well enough to range something. I'm big on a great warranty, but not if the product is inferior to begin with.

The Lieca rangefinder has better glass than the Vortex, although the Vortex glass is pretty darn good. Vortex Customer Service is up there with Swaro,Leupold,Sightron,ect.....Leica CS reputation has not.

Get the Swaro 8x30 and have the best of both. Tough call IMO.

I can tell you from experience that the Leica RF warranty is a joke. I sent a RF to Leica because it was reading very slow after changed batteries etc...Sent it in for some calibration! My email from Leica deemed my rangefinder inoperable!! Offered repair for 250.00+ I just wanted it back because it worked but just not very fast, The only way they would ship it back was if I prepaid 51.00 in return shipping, I told them to shove it up there ________!!

Needles to say, I will never be a Leica customer again!!

Have Fun

I hear that all the time..Leica is hit and miss at best. What a shame. I've never seen that Vortex RF. Based on another thread which peaked my curiosity, I did call them specifically about their warranty. Lifetime on RF, electronics, everything, the whole shootin' match. Unbelievable warranty for an electronic piece of equipment.

I personally prefer the Zeiss rangefinder.

Points well taken guys.... I understand that the Leica glass may be better at low light or even all around for that matter. I have had my hands on both units and I really dont think the Vortex is that far behind in glass quality. The Leica does read a hair faster but not enough to sway my decision. I want a HUNTING RF and the vortex has the edge in ruggedness and usability with the belt clip. I have read some negative review's about the Vortex being off by 1-3 yards.

I have taken all of the above factors into consideration and again the warranty is the selling point for me. If I get a defective Vortex unit or at any time something goes wrong i simply send it in and it gets repaired or replaced. If I buy a Leica I get superior glass and reading time but the second anything happens past the VERY SHORT 3 months I am screwed out of 4-5 hundred $.

I would suspect that the warranty and lack of costomer service is the reason Cameraland still has the $399 demo units in stock this long after the SHOT show. $399 seems like a great price and I would have thought they would fly off the shelves at that price.

why are you not looking at an RF binocular?? I bet if you looked around you could find a deal on some used or demo geovids. after using these for 5 odd years I will NEVER EVER, EVER NEVER go back to a seperate RF unit unless one of these days I might make alot of money and buy a vectronix RF that ranges insanely far and even then that will be in addition to the RF bins I already use primarily. I know its a big investment but after using them you will know why, unless you are doing a one time hunt and don't spend much time in the field RF bins are the way to go.

as to leica vs vortex. a guy I trust as a poster claims that even vortex said they suck. leica is the leader in RF technology they were the first with it and have relationships with vectronix like I mentioned above which is what the military uses. they may even own the company.

my experience with leica customer service was this I needed them 18 mos ago to repair my geovids that fell off a fire place and landed on the focus knob. I sent them in they charged me $100 to fix them and I had them back in 3-4 weeks. last august I sent mine in because the RF was weak. I could not range very well past 600-700 yards. they fixed that under warranty and the RF is the best of the 3 total geovids I have owned over the years. again time frame was 3-4 weeks there and back. I would rate the customer service as adequate, its not vortex and it aint swaro, swaro probably would not have charged me for fixing the focus knob.

^^^ all the RF binos are WAY out of my price range. I spend a lot of time in the field and would be using the RF for daily shooting of my bow to every year hunting trips.

If Leica is the leader in RF Tech (and they may be) and has all these ties in the military field why only offer a three month Warranty? if this is in fact the case then It comes off to me that they could care less about the general public end user as long as thier govornment contracts are in place.

I guess I'm saying, if you make such a great product then why not stand behind it?? Vortex, Swaro, Leupold are standing behind their stuff. I dont want to spend $400 on a RF then have to drop another $100 in 4 months because something went haywire.

No idea where you're getting three months warranty from Leica, unless you're talking pre-owned/refurbished. Warranty for NIB electronics from an authorized Leica dealer is 5-years.

I would say leica's RF is built at least as rugged and reliable as the best there is on the market. even for demo stuff leica has at least a minimum of a 1 year warranty.

as to out of your price range. I bet if you really tried you could find a used pair of second generation geovids those are the non HD models for 12-1400. if you looking at a leica RF you are already nearly half way there. sell the bins you got or save some more money. my hunting buddy on an archery hunt killed a buck in excess of 30" and 180+ in score. he will tell you without geovids he would not have had the time to make the shot. look at this as in investment that you will get enjoyment from, its not like a women spending money on clothes or shoes.

Thanks for the info, I was under the Impression it was 3 months. I got that from the CL Demo price on the Leica 1000. I was comparing that one to the Vortex purely on $400 price range.

As far the RF binocs go, I would be lucky to find something in the 1400$ range and even then that would be $1000 over we're i want to be. Not going to happen with two young children at home... If you know what I mean. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Hi Gents, Warranties are not necessarily a reflection of how good a company thinks its product is, i.e. how much they stand behind it. Frankly, anything can break, and the right (or wrong) move will break anything. Some products have a production cost less than 10% of their retail price, others are more than 40% of the retail. This affects a company's ability to provide a generous warranty. (It also affects their ability to advertise.) What is more important to the user, buying a product that is less likely to break in the field, or one that will be fixed for free, no questions asked, if it does? Only he or she can decide that. I'm not flaming or pointing fingers at anyone here. Both lines of reasoning are valid. Yes, some companies offer some semblance of the best of both worlds, but there is no company that offers unconditional lifetime warranties on every product they make, if they're truly at the Alpha level. Warranties at the alpha level are at best lifetime (defects only) on mechanical/optical, 2-5 years on electronics (defects only). Note that the new product warranty on any alpha hand held rangefinder is 2 years (on electronics) at MOST. Also, note that the warranty on a $2000 Vectronix Terrapin is 1 year. Is it a lesser RF than the others? NO! It just costs Vectronix a metric butt load to build the sucker!

cumminscowboy: cameralandny says on their web page that the pre-owned CRF-1000s they have for $399 carry a 3-month warranty.

GreatWaputi: A phone call to cameralandny says that the full warranty on the brand new CRF-1000 is 2 years.

I've searched the us.leica-camera.com web site and can't find ANYTHING about a warranty, even when I looked at their downloads for technical data and operating instructions. They have addresses and phone numbers for service centers, but nothing about how long their warranty lasts.

I find that strange and not at all comforting for an item that costs so much.

So which companies rangefinder seems to be the best of both warranty and function?

Buy quality and don't worry about the warranty. A lifetime warranty doesn't mean squat when the company is out of business, just ask any Tasco, Readfield, Weaver, etc. scope owner that bragged about the lifetime warranty. Buy a new Leica with a 5 year warranty and I'm betting that wil last longer than a Vortex lifetime warranty!

I'll take that bet Reelman.

JUST got my Vortex RF today. Popped in the battery and read the instructions { that is that paper that falls out of the box when you open it} and pointed it out... no... thru my front room window to a tree line.... right into the sun and across the new snow....... 477 yards..... ???? HMMMM ???
NOW>> THINK ABOUT IT !! IF you are comparing the VORTEX RF against the best RF in the world and the VORTEX is right there with the BEST.... with a life time warranty..... ??? AND, YES, VORTEX WILL BE AROUND TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR PRODUCT.... KIND OF A NO BRAINER TO ME !!

Leica or Zeiss for me.

I've been around long enough to see a bunch of companies come and go and one that offer lifetime warranties on electronics go guicker than others. Also there is the fact that when you buy Vortex you are supporting a socialist country that we may very well end up in armed conflict with in the not so distant future.
If I'm going to buy an imported product it could a least come from an allied country .

Buying a product for the warranty is like making the decision to date a woman solely by looking at her Mom. Not a bad idea, but she has to be worth a schit in the first place. No way I'm making a decision on a woman or a rangefinder just by what the long term is going to look like.

I have a Leica LRF 1200 that has survived 10 years of abuse - in that time it's spent a year in Iraq and plenty of hunting seasons in the states being beat to schit.

Buy the Leica and be merry.

In the immortal words of Tommy Callahan "I can take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed. I've got spare time". Warrantys don't mean much when you start out with a piece of crap.

Do you Vortex fans have any idea how poor the optics are in this rangefinder in comparison to the CRF 1600B, or for that matter the CRF 1200?? If you actually plan to hunt with the thing, you need to be able to discern your target in low light, against dark backgrounds, etc. and get an accurate range. There is no comparison between the Leupold or Vortex and the Leica. They will work just fine at archery ranges from a treestand, but for a serious rifle hunter or western archery hunter they're not even close.

Leica is good equipment. I have a CRF1200. I also have a Vortex Ranger 1000, and it is most definitely not a piece of crap. I use and have confidence in both of them.

I have not looked through a Leica 1600B, so I can't pass judgment on the optical quality there, but I would suspect it is at least as good as the CRF 1200. I had both my CRF 1200 and my Vortex Ranger out side by side yesterday comparing the optics, and frankly cannot discern a difference in the optical quality. The Vortex Ranger 1000 has good optics, no better than my Leica CRF 1200, but don't knock the Vortex rangefinder optics until you look through one.

I have a CRF1600B and it hangs on my bino straps and it has its share of dings and scratches on it from bow hunting. It has fallen off my bench at least once and I belly crawled with it 300 yards in Wyoming last year while it was attached to my chest. It is still going strong and is fast and accurate.

A good friend of mine has had his 1200 to Africa a few times and hunts hard and his is holding up after many years.

The Leica is a good piece of equipment. can't comment on the CS as I haven't needed it as of yet.

In my original post I concluded that the Leica has better glass , but not enought for me see a HUGE difference. Im glad to hear the Leicas are holding up good. That being said one wrong drop and you might be out your favorite RF.

I truly do believe Vortex is in this for the ling haul and wont be goin g out of business anytime soon. I also believe that their warranty plays a huge factor in people buying their product, there for the argument the a company who offers a lifetime warranty on their RF does not hold water with me.

I'd bet most of the Vortex RF bashers haven't ever laid eyes on one, except for Drum, who I know has.

FWIW, I had two Leica 1200 CRF's and they were both a piece of crap. None of 'em are 100% bulletproof.

Huh - Don't know why anyone would lie about having tried one. I didn't need more than one trip around the archery range one evening late last summer to see that the Vortex has poor optics. The Leupold and the Vortex aren't as good as the Leica, I really can't believe that there is so much arguement about this. They are low end rangefinders that are at best functional under a lot of conditions, just not so much in low light against a dark background. If that is what you want to buy/can afford, then by all means do so. Spend a little more money and you'll have an excellent piece of gear instead of a compromise. I'm speaking from experience here, you get what you pay for in rangefinders.