lately the last 2 elite scopes I have seen say made in china on the bottom. I wonder why they didn't just keep going with the 3200 and 4200 models instead of "upgrading" them to chinese manufacture.

The Elite binos are still made in Japan.

I don't believe they are all made there just certain models

I think zeiss terra's are too.

They are very nice glass and even nicer construction quality. I think where they are engineered and designed, and the German QC overseeing them when complete before shipping out is the key to their success.

By comparison, the Japanese made bushnell fusion 1 mile QC is so bad I've seen three pairs and all were three were bad! They must have skipped the Toyota quality assurance seminars

I'm not convinced origin of MFG alone is the decision maker. The manufacturer keeping a close eye on detail so that spec's are met and quality is assured trumps country of MFG.

I've seen a pile of crap come out of USA mfg too! More often then not lately.

JJ- does that include your replacement pair?

Yes, they are all gone. I no longer own any of them. three failures in 5 weeks sent me straight to Leica to the geovids. Thankfully the vendor and Bushnell recognized the problems and refunded every penny.

The customer service of the vendor was flawless. Bushnell tried hard to create a solution. However in the end they could not support this products problems. I actually felt kinda sorry for the folks in their tech support having to struggle with the quality.. It must be awful In their situation to know the facts, and have to bite their tongue with a customer on the phone that knows. It was obvious I was not the first or only person with grave disappointment using these.

Leica Geovids are much more expensive. However they work and are crafted with typical Leica construction and quality. If I remember, they are made in Portugal not Germany. I'll have to check that, but something tells me they are not made in Germany.

Respectfully disagree, email Bushnell and ask them the country of manufacture for the Elite line of scopes; it's China. Production was shifted to China when the 3200 and 4200 models were discontinued. That's why the Japanese made scopes sell so well on ebay, most people realize that there was an increase in price coupled with a slight loss of quality.

this really sucks the elite 4200 series were my favorite standard scope. I have noticed that on ebay the prices there have jumped 50 bucks in the last few months. I still have a brand new one sitting in the box from when they were blowing the last of the 3x9's out, I was going to sell it but maybe I should just keep it because there isn't anymore coming out. I have also noticed that in stores around me, cabelas, scheels, sportsmans warehouse etc bushnell only has the cheaper line available in those stores. why spend more money on chinese made scopes.

Elite riflescopes are still stamped Japan. The two side focus models that were stamped Elite are no longer Elite models. They are Legend models.

no they are not legend models!!!! next time I see them I will take pictures. I don't think the elite 6500 is made in china, but the 3x9 I saw in cabelas was made in china and another elite I saw marked special edition with side focus was also made in china. the made in china marking is on the underside the scope tube is matte finish the made in china lettering is gloss, its very subtle and kinda hard to read.

I have heard the same thing about the "Special Edition" 3-9 model and someone here or on some other forum posted pictures of it and it was marked China. Not sure if this was something that was rebranded by Bushnell or not as those Special Edition models were also listed under the Elite line by SWFA too. If you look at the SWFA website, you will now see those two side focus 3-9's (2-3-9x40's and 2-3-9x50's) listed under the Legend line-up. Someone had pulled 4 different Elite models from the warehouse and all were marked Japan.

thinking the terra's are made in japan, not china...love jap glass but didnt care for the terra i handled

the Elite tactical I bought last summer is marked........JAPAN

Every elite scope I have looked at has "Made in Japan" marked on the box.

I think if you search the forum, you'll see this has pretty much been hashed out and unless Bushnell has shifted production recently, the new Elites should be from Japan.

There are likely still some "Elite" scopes floating around that were made in China and still being sold NIB. As stated earlier, this line has become the Bushnell Trophy XLT line.

I believe the "current" Elite line is all Japan produced though. At least all 4 of mine are made in Japan. FWIW...

Last week I sold a 3-9x40mm Japanese made Elite scope on ebay for $250; it was NIB and it sold via the BuyNow feature within 12 hours of listing.

my wife`s last doa 600 bushnell elite 3-9x40 is made in japan and looks exactly like the older 4200 maybe a little brighter.

What still unclear to me is which of the newer elite models are the old 3200's and which are the old 4200 models ?

For the most part it's pretty easy to just form the zoom magnification range. 3200's are 3x zoom (3-9, 4-12, 5-15..) and the 4200's are 4x zoom (2.5-10, 4-16, 6-24...).

That's not true. There's a ton of Elite 4200 3-9x40s floating around. All of mine are Japan made. I have a few of them.

He did say for the most part. Ok 3x or 4x erector ok simple enough , Like has been pointed out there were run of 3x9's of 4200's that were much cheaper than the 3.5x10's . Are the 4x erector that much higher $$ ? On the newer elites is the glass quilty also higher on the models with a 4x erector? Seemed to me the 4200's had better glass then the 3200's did

I knew someone was going to highlight the one oddball 3-9 that was a 4200 model. In short, Bushnell decided after some time had passed, that they wanted a 3-9 in their 4200 line so compete with other makers who offered "premium" 3-9's, such as Zeiss Conquest, for example. It offered the same one piece tube construction and top of the line 4200 glass/coatings as the standard 4200 line, but in a 3x zoom package. Now, to tell the two 3-9's apart ( which were 3200's and the sole 4200 model 3-9) you have to look at the saddle on the tube. 3200's used a glue on saddle/turret assembly and the 4200's were always milled from a solid one piece tube, meaning the saddle/turret assembly was actually part of the tube itself.

Look closely at this picture and you can see that the saddle/turret assembly is glued onto the tube itself and not actually part of the main tube.






























































Now, here is a picture of a 4200 3-9 and you can see that the saddle/turret assembly is actually milled (hammer forged) into/from the scope tube itself. In other words, one continuous solid piece of aluminum.

RDFinn - Not trying to argue with you. But I'll tell you what, my 5 Japan made Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 scopes do NOT appear as in the picture you just posted. They look like this one: Link to Pic of Elite 4200 3-9x40

Am I not understanding what it is you are trying to say/describe?

Oh and also I believe the picture you posted isn't even a variable scope. No power adjustment ring there.

I just discoverd something very interesting , your pics showing the tube tube difference. something didn't look right to me so I wnet and dug out my horent it has 3x9x40 3200 on it and it is a one peice tube . So I than dug out a .22mag with a 3x9x40 3200 on it and is not a one peice tube !! Both scopes are close to same age like 10-12 years old. One I know was bought at wally world and the other a gun shop. I will dig out boxes and see if I can figure out which was from where and age
Ok found both boxes one from wal mart 2001 on the box advertises fast focus eyepeice and is accurate. The other is from 2002 from gunshop does not advertise fast focus eyepeice, but both scopes are. but still un sure which scope cam in which box !! cant find a serial # on box or paper work to match scope to box

I'm not sure how I can better illustrate what I'm talking about as it's hard to find close up pics of the 3200. Here is one that is a little closer...You can see that the saddle is glued on the tube itself..

Actually, I can see what you're talking about with the 3200 vs 4200 from your picture. I misread your previous post. Sorry about that.

You are right, that pic is a 3200 10x Tactical scope. I was just trying to find close up pics so that you could see the saddle of the scope tube.

I did a quick search using my google-foo and do see some pics of Elite 3200s that have the same design (one piece tube) as the 4200s I own.

ELITE with 1-piece tube

Maybe a some made differently than others? In fact there is a pic (of all places) on Wal Mart's site showing the 2-piece version. Don't remember where I saw the 1-piece though...it was the Wal-Mart that stuck in my head.

Add- another quick search found the 3200 on Optics planet.

It is entirely possible that Bushnell changed and swapped/improved or whatever you want to say. I know that when I first started buying 4200's, I did a lot (to much) reading up on them and had conversations with Bushnell as well. That was just one of the things I remember them telling me......about the tube differences.

Yeah, and it appears yet again my google-foo needs work. The link I posted is to a NEW Elite - NOT a 3200.

Oh well, beating a dead horse I suppose. I don't even own a 3200 only 4200s.

I'm really not trying to BS anyone here, only trying to help. The biggest difference between them (3200 vs 4200) was the glass itself. IIRC, Bushnell used to claim something like 91% light transmission for 3200's and 95% transmission for 4200's.

Understood. Didn't mean to get too far off topic either and not implying your were BS'n anyone.

I was thinking you bad either (FINN) I was just learning about the newer elites and the tube thing came up and was a bit baffled and have own both them 3200's for well over 10 years and had never noticed they were a little different , now which one is older ? I'm thinking the one with the 4200 style tube is the oldest but not sure , maybe it was an "over run" tube and they just used it for a 3200 or maybe it should have been a 3700 have way in between LOL

All you have to know is that when it comes to Bushnell Elites, I'm like Eremicus is to Leupold. Diamond Coat is the toughest coating known to mankind and the Elite is " The Worlds Brightest Riflescope "

As I understand it, the 3200's had some, but not all of their glass multicoated. The 3200's were also not built to the same standards of duability. E

I believe you are correct about the coatings Eremicus. Durability as well.

Glad I don't own any of these multicultural products.

for some reason I think it was a huge blunder for bushnell to drop the 3200 and 4200 nomenclature. for one I don't see any elites for sale like I used to in stores, cabelas, sportsman's and scheels don't sell them anymore. it was easy and simple to understand 3200 and 4200 one had basically better glass than the other. now to complicate we have some models being made in china. RD I have been and continue to be a huge 4200 fan, but as much of a fan as I am, they are not a zeiss conquest which is indeed a brighter scope, they are close but the zeiss gets the edge.

for what its worth I have a silver 3200 3x9 that I bought at a local store used a while back for $75 it has clear glue that holds the turret housings on. the brand new never mounted 4200 and the older 4200 I have both 3x9's have the 1 piece tube. all elites I own are japan made.

The thing that hurt those scopes the most was losing the Bausch & Lomb name. That separated them from Bushnell as far as most consumers probably were concerned anyway. Funny thing is, and I think Mule Deer even said this as well, was the Bushnell versions actually got better from a glass standpoint.

That may be the case, but my 4X Bausch & Lomb ain't going no where.

I was recently sent a new Elite from Bushnell a couple of weeks ago as a replacement for an older scope that was covered by warranty. The Elite sent to me is a 2-7x, one-piece tube, made in Japan. It has fully multi-coated optics and 95% light transmission which is the same as the old 4200's. Before they sent it to me, the Bushnell repair supervisor told me the new Elites were same as the old 4200's. New Elites are argon purged which I think he might of said was even an upgrade from the old 4200's. I'm wanting to sell this scope (unused) if anyone is interested.

Sounds like they need 100 hours of Kaizen meetings. Oh the agony!

I think the Elite series is made in Japan. Here is a side to side comparison with the Chinese Limited Edition 3-9x40 and the Japanese 4200 Elite 3-9x40. I wrote this up some time ago, but couldn't find the link on Search. I still have the photos and will post.

IIRC, the Chinese scope was a bit longer and heavier. It had Parallax adjustment. The glass seemed the same to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the glass was the same and the Chinese version just assembled there. The turrets were different, I liked the Chinese version better.














[img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/rush2830/BushnellElites007.jpg[/img]

He asked about the "newer" model Elite's, perhaps it is true I don't have any experience with the newer models.

You are correct when it comes to the older Elites, alot of 3-9x40mm out there.

Just as an update to my earlier post pertaining to country of manufacture. I emailed Bushnell for the second time and the reply was; it depends on which model scope. Judging by this, it is my opinion that both China and Japan are manufacturing the newer Elites.

A lot of stuff is now manufactured across borders with parts and assembly at various places. The Chinese can make some really good stuff if that's what's ordered. They're also masters of making cheap stuff.

When Jap cars first hit the market after the war, they were cheap tin cans. Now, Toyota makes some of the finest crafted automobiles on the planet. South Korean cars were pretty much the same early on. Now their brands are pushing the premiere builders.

So, my point is, it may become less important where a product is made. The quality will ultimately speak for itself. And each brand will have to be very aware of the perception of the quality of its products. Competition for price point and quality is good for the consumer.

IMHO.

DF

Tried to get a couple of pics at different angles to show the saddle area of the scope tube being one piece...

My experience with the Elites started with the Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000 2.5-10x40 back in the mid-90s and the first version with Rainguard, a B&L 4200 that started and ended around he late 90's. I have probably owned close to a dozen of them that included the Bushnell Elite 4200, all in 2.5-10x40. Their only drawback, is the 3.3 inch ER, which for me only became an issue on my 300 WM when I was shooting it this past summer without a hunting weight jacket. I solved that by putting a Leica ER 2.5-10x42 which has 4" of ER throughout the power range.

Last one of the vintage Elite..

What stock is that on the rifle? Looks like a nice open grip.

FWIW, I have seen pics of 3200 3-9x40's with all three style of tube/turret housings- one piece, two piece glued, and saddle. But I have only ever seen 4200's come with the one piece tube.

Also, someone mentioned durability. Bushnell claimed that their 3200 scolded were tested to 1,000 rounds of .375 recoil, while they claimed 10,000 rounds for the 4200.

And I believe the 91% and 95% figures are indeed what bushnell advertised.

Who cares. Bushnell is an importer. They make NOTHING, never have.

Their scopes have poor eye relief and little internal adjustment compared to most. And no way the 3200 has 91% LT. 88-89% IMO.

And FWIW, the 4200 glass that all the "Bushies" brag about is the SAME glass(without Rainguard) you can buy in a Weaver Classic (made in same plant, or was at least)for less than half the price. I use Butler Creeks. Rainguard would not be a selling point even if I would consider a Bushnell........

the elite 4200 isn't the same glass as the classic weaver, I would say its not even close, if you want to compare it I would say the 3200 would make a better comparison with the classic. just because they are made in the same factory doesn't mean ANYTHING. further the shorter eye relief of the elite scopes makes them better and easier to get behind. maybe not the choice for a 375H&H or some heavy African dangerous game rifle. but still very user friendly.

And I would say you are WAY off base. You have to be kidding, right?

Wow, really? Very interesting. This is the EXACT reason why I stopped posting in the optics forum for so long and why I have had 3 of the "regulars" here on ignore for years. But I digress............

no I am not kidding, why do you think optics makers don't just make everything with 5" of eye relief, why do we not all use scout scopes. a scout scope must be a better setup because it has all that eyerelief. have you owned the weaver classic and the elite 4200?? I have owned several of each including 3200's as well. the weaver classis isn't the same glass wise as a 4200, 3200 is a better match. I would say the 4200 is more comparable to the slam series. I am supposed to be getting a brand new super slam tomorrow, I have a brand new 4200 to compare it to, I will post the results.

It's the African Plains Rifle from the Custom Shop.

Thanks. Do you know if the stock is the same shape as the CDL? It just looks like a nicer stock.

Bushnell is an importer, that's correct. Tasco and Weaver (ATK) are all importers. And, I care.

To me the 4200 series is much better than the 3200 series. ER is shorter than some, so my .375 H&H wears a Leupold, not a 4200. But for the cost, it's hard to beat the 4200 series. To me 4200 glass is as good as a VX-2, close to a VX-3. And, to me the VX-2 and VX-3 are pretty close.

I've not seen a Chinese Elite, just the Limited Edition, which is pretty close to the Japanese made Elite 4200.

DF

I like the added insurance the 4200 provides with regards to durability, over any VX scope's. Do they have shorter ER than some VX's ? Slightly. If I need a scope with 3.5 inches of ER for my 30/06, 280, 270, 25/06, 7-08, 243 etc......does putting a scope with 4+ inches of ER make it a better scope ?

Sometime ago I had a B&L 4200 and Weaver V-24 on two different match guns. To me the 4200 was much clearer, then the Weaver , but the Weaver did seem better than the 3200 line at the time.

The V24 is not one of the better Classic models IMO. The V16 is far superior to the V24 just as the V9 is much better than the V10.

Just like every brand, some models are better than others.

Weaver Classic glass is said to be 94% LT, 4200 95% and 3200 90%.

IMO the latter is not even 90% and the previous 2 are much more comparable and easily brighter.

The Weavers will out track the Bushnells though, and that ain't a guess.....

Um out track? never had a problem with either, and I shoot silhoutte that could very well be the most demanding disapline for scope tracking, that said I shoot all Leupolds any more , but weaver or sightrons are the next most popular in the sport. The lower the X's on a scope the better lower quilty glass will appear, Something I've more than a few times when someone claims their scope aint tracking right it goes right back to not mounted squarely and /or canting the gun.

I have a Weaver Classic K6 and the glass is impressive for it's price point. I do have two 4200's that I believe are superior to the Weaver Classic. I appreciate the better lens coatings on the 4200's as well as the scope tubes finish.

That's my main complaint with the Weaver is the that flat finish of the scope. I wouldn't even call it matte. But for the money I'm not disappointed at all with Weaver.

Dan

Yes at matches I see plenty of Leupolds and Weavers. Some Sightrons too. No Bushnells at all. Almost never. Their higher powered options suck and internal adjustment is minimal.

If forced, I'd much rather a lower powered Elite on a hunting rig, than a high powered one on a precision rifle.

I don't hate Elites altogether, it's just that Weaver offers you a better product at a cheaper price IMO......

Weaver finishes are nothing to write home about, admittedly. However, when they scratch, they scratch. Some of the initially better looking finishes on some other brands tend to chip or flake IME(not just scratch), if you beat them up much......

To me in "hunting" scope such as a 3-9 ,3.5/10 a weaver grand slam is very comparable or maybe better than a 4200

Honestly don' know how similar they are.

I would say the GS is better. The new ones are quite pricey and I have yet to try one. I have a T36 and a KT15 that track flawlessly and a Classic that has been beaten to death and still kicking. I use more Leupys than anything else though.

I had a couple older B&L that were very good, and great looking to boot. Only had one problem ever with an Elite, and the CS was terribly slow. I don't hate them or anything. The hunting scopes are fine. But the finicky higher powered scopes with little internal adjustment I have no time for. Eye boxes are touchy and eye relief is simply not good IME....

I had a V-16 on a 30 STW and thought it's glass was just average. 4200's, to my eyes, were noticeably better. I've never owned the higher magnification range 4200's, so I can't comment on their ER. I've only owned the 2.5-10x40.