Agree or disgree I thought it might interest some.

Best Long range scope under $1500

"10x is great if all you're doing is ringing steel at long range... but when you want to take that same rifle after some coyotes, you might see that fixed 10x isn't that great of an option."

Interesting quote from the author...

He wasn't shy about pimping things that literally have not been out for a full year yet (Athlon)... how could they possibly be vetted?

I guess he did give himself an out by kiboshing the notion that mechanical precision isn't a big factor... "use the reticle!"... but that in itself makes me suspicious of his cred. Is he known as a highly skilled LR shooter?

Ridiculous to write off SFP scopes, too.

Thinly-disguised mashup of google-fu is my opinion.

He shoulda got a reference from Formy before talking up Vortex..................

MM

Vetted?

What does that matter if the mfr provides Lifetime Transferable warranty and does warranty repair in KS?

About HALF of what you pay for Leupold, Burris, other Big Names is to cover warranty claims... Scopes break. How many have glass etched reticles? Leupold mk4 for sure, All Athlon from Talos BTR up, and some Vortex, for sure the Razor, and NightForce, maybe Sightron?? Who can remember?


If the author had been an Athlon fanboy rigging the deal, he would have bumped the bar to $1800 and included the Cronus BTR which has ALL The Features of Top Build and Component Quality since Light Optical Works of Japan makes them 100%.

I am an Athlon dealer. Bought the Cronus BTR for longterm evaluation and demonstration purposes. Pay $3500 or more and you won't get anything "better" unless a super nice paint job or battery compartment on the side of the rear tube matters to you? Maybe you prefer the NF ocular bell that incorporates the magnification dial? Never did like that myself. Had one of those 8-32x NF NXS and a 2.5-10 24. Both were highly praised for their optics, but the 8-32x was NOTHING Special. Boat Anchor heavy and dull optically. None any better than my Leupold mk4s. Sold the 8-32x NXS after 5mos and felt lucky to lose only $600 on the deal...

I have tested Argos BTR 8-34x which sells for $390 for FFP illum side-focus etc and the scope was super clear and crisp, plus delivered 20mils/72 moa of elevation range and was accurate per my boresighter with grid. Maybe precise is the better description? The Argos 8-34x was crisp and excellent out to 1100yds. Started to decline a bit after that or maybe it was just the Cronus BTR never showed any degradation... For $390 it is a a must see.


I sold 2 Vortex Viper PST and replaced with Argos BTR mil-rad. Better optics and features, plus great value. Also sold several better grade Leupolds.

The Cronus BTR is a Superb Value. Crisp and color accurate at excess of 2 miles. The Argos 8-34x was superb out to 1100yds when tested at my local airport. The Cronus BTR was crisp even on 1" diameter power line which was 1600yds or further distant. Scoping a distant mountain meadow, snow covered in early April, the Cronus BTR was like a spotting scope in terms of clarity and identification. I have watched sheep move with the sun on mountain meadows at over 5mi distance. The 4.5-29x Cronus BTR is very exceptional.

Back to this "vetting" thing... Every scopesight, these days, is an entity to itself. They're all complex, they all break and you might get one with factory defects. It took Burris 3 - 4 weeks to even inspect the recent Tac-30 1-4x I returned to them because the illum reticle was lighting-up on its own, and the reticle was seen to move on diagonal. About 5wks later I heard the scope had an O-ring fail and water damaged the internals. The scope was never around any water much less out in the rain, it was like new... Point is, you're on your own when it comes to "vetting". You best have your own testing gear like the Bushnell 74-3333 boresighter-collimator. You best regularly evaluate your scopes and test a new one thoroughly.

You best also have guarantee that whoever you're buying from isn't selling you a scope returned from a previous buyer. Brownells sent me a Vortex that they got back in return. Not what you expect from the people you've trusted for years.

It's a new world out there. Athlon IS worthy of your consideration and comparison.

"Vetted? What does that matter if the mfr provides Lifetime Transferable warranty and does warranty repair in KS?"

This attitude drives me nuts. I've had scopes die on a couple different hunts and the warranty meant nothing at the moment (I've been packing backup rifles, bows and optics on my trips for decades now). Most of the low end optics we've been inundated with carry lifetime warranties.... The scopes I've had go bad were immediately sold after repairs because nothing would restore my confidence in them. Sorry for venting but I buy things banking on their functioning.

I've looked into some of the higher end new brand scopes and view them like new model American made vehicles: I'll let others help the company work the bugs out for a year or two before sending my money their way.

Yes, all things mechanical can break--I've had it happen even with some top shelf optics.

The idea you pay a lot for a name brand company's scope means nothing about longevity. I would trust a Tasco before I would trust a Swarovski. I never had a Tasco fail and had a Swarovski need to be repaired twice in two years. I don't want something with a good warranty. I want something good.

Sig. line material here.

I have learned to let others be swayed by the siren calls of New Cheap Optics. Athlon is just another unproved quantity at this point.

I do want a scope to be vetted before I drop serious money on it. I've seen guys buy a particular Vortex only to have it fail,be replaced quickly,and fail again just as quickly. What difference does it make if a manufacturer replaces a POS with another POS? A lifetime replacement warranty doesn't mean a thing if they are all crap.

I don't know a thing about the Athlon scopes. I hope they are good scopes. I might be willing to be the first on a $500 or under scope but I won't spend north of $1000 on anything unless it has a history with folks I can trust. That's just the way it is and the reason it's so hard for any new manufacturer to break into the business with a premium line.

Well, i read the article and i still use a flip phone and i still use a standard Mil/Mil Front focal plain Mildot. I cannot get excited over a Chinese or Philippine made tactical scope with all the bells and whistles regardless of the cost!

Best LRScope.....One that above all is reliable. Been said before that a great warranty is almost worthless when your hundreds of miles from home on top of a mountain in bump ass no where.

In 2010 a had a coveted mule deer tag that took years to get. I put a new scope on my .260 in early spring and shot the hell out of it all summer..all good!
When the season opened I backpacked into a area I had scouted all summer. About a 4 1/2 hr pack in & rained the whole way in. Next morning out before first light to a basin where I had been seeing 2 really good bucks most of the summer. Sure enough they were there. got within 350 yards set up waiting for a little more light and WTF could not see through my scope. Totally fogged. I thought about trying to center the deer in the scope and trying a shot but thought better of it. Decided to back out and see if I could get the scope cleared up. At camp tried to unscrew the eyepiece..no go. Warmed it up a little and just made the fog turn to droplets. Screwed! Put my pack on, left my camp and hauled down the mountain. Got in the car drove 75 miles to my house got my other rifle. By then it was late so stayed over nite got up and hiked back up there. Surprisingly I bumped into another hunter who also had a high country tag. He just "missed" a huge buck in the same basin 1/4 mile from my camp.. Hunted the rest of the week, passed some smaller bucks and ate tag soup.

Sent the scope back and it was repaired and back in 2 weeks..great but....

My .260 now wears a Nightforce and I have not draw a high country mule deer tag since 2010.

So much for warranty's

LC

+1 This.

When we were kids, we'd go out with Grandpa to his cabin on the lake. The boat would sit tied to the dock during the day, getting used here and there, and if a storm came up in the early evening, we'd hurry and take the boat out to the buoy, where it could ride the waves instead of bashing into the dock all night long. On many occasions the evening rolled around, and there'd be clear skies and the prospect of a nice, calm night. Grandpa would ask us to take the boat out to the buoy before we went to bed. In my young mind, this made no sense. Putting the boat on the bouy was what we did when we expected a storm, what's the point of putting it out there on a calm night? So I asked Grandpa why we always put the boat on the bouy, even in clear skies. His answer stuck with me and often comes to mind, even all these years later. "So we can sleep when the wind blows," he'd say. He passed on recently, but I'll never forget that lesson he taught me as a boy.

I've gone away from LW scopes, even on my LW rifles, which, while a bit heavier, now wear scopes renowned for rugged durability/reliability, so that after I've backpacked in 10 miles to get to my sheep mountain, I can sleep when the wind blows.

Good post Jordan. More people should heed the advice of some of those older folks.

Gents:

You definitely need to include these Zeiss V6 in this discussion:



I had a chance to wring them out at the FTW Ranch, and there was a whole lot to like about 'em. The teachers there are retired snipers, know their [bleep] cold, and EVERYONE was impressed with these things.

Made in Germany, all the bells, whistles and coatings on the optics, this model (3-18x50) has 103 MOA elevation, and, last but not least, repeatability was impeccable.

I will personally own one of these as soon as they arrive in US markets, which is slated for early summer.

These are the real deal.

I can dig that zmoa reticle.

Good looking scope that I would definitely like to own. The only caveat would seem to be tube length is short enough that a rail would likely be a necessity. No different than most of the newest designs. Not a problem but something to consider.

RickBin,

Can you tell me how this scope's performance is in low light? I have this scop on order, but I'm very curious to know how it performs in low light. I have only read 2 reviews from 2 individuals that were at the FTW all were positive but they said the low light performance was ok. I would have thought it would be good, since this scope is using the same glass used in the Victory Scopes from Zeiss. Just would like another opinion before I purchase this scope. If not I may go with a Z5

The Zeiss above is their conquest v6 line correct? I wonder what the price point will be.

The HD5 did not do the conquest line justice in my opinion and I still don't know what Zeiss has against a 42mm version in the 2-12 range.

A 2-12x42,44 with low profile and truly repeatable turrets would be an end game for me. I could go FFP or sfp on that one too so long as the reticle was worth its salt in low light. Just stay under 20oz.

Yep. Why would it matter that the device you use to aim actually works.....?

Do you think about what you write before you type it out, or just throw it up there to see what happens?




As for the article- the world is full of people that have never done what they are talking about, but can't wait to tell you all about it.

I like it. Smart man.

TFF!!!!! Only on the wild Internet can so much entertainment be obtained for free!!!!! LMAO









Take care, Willie

Max:

Full-on Schott glass and Zeiss' premium multi-coatings in these. The last thing to worry about is low-light performance.

I got to use all 3 models. They were superb. The 3-18x50 is my huckleberry.

Rick

Thanks for the info.

Kind of missed the point, didn't ya?
NOTHING is made perfect by anybody...

Could relate a few experiences, (not stories), actual product defect situations I had to endure that "great (vetted?) companies chose not to make right; but so what?


If you look at life as some kind of daily shell-game experience, where everybody is out to cheat you out of a buck, then I can understand trying to limit your chances of being scammed.

If everyone had waited until NightForce or Vortex were "vetted" to buy their products, then they probably wouldn't have become the companies they are today. There are, afterall, consumer protections and reasons that a new firm KNOWS it has to deliver innovative and better products if it is going to ever be successful.

Not everyone is a prospective buyer for many reasons.
Whatever makes you happy.

For others who might venture to try a new thing, sometimes you score big! And sometimes you score big and get a lifetime guarantee that you won't be disappointed later if there's ever a problem.
That's even better!

Already being a Zeiss guy, I have a new item on my list of wants and desires.

I wouldn't own a Zeiss if it were free. Their scopes are junk. Good spotters and OK binoculars though. Best scope under $1500....Sightron. They actually track and repeat correctly.

Another odd claim is that you need ffp for long range. All my scopes are sfp and I shoot long range a lot. There are trade offs to both...

Dog,

What do you think of the Super Sniper variables in SFP?

Strong words on Zeiss but I guess you have earned the right and may be right. However, I own a victory that is flawless in its tracking. I was hesitant about their tracking ability when I picked up my 1st one. I actually posted a question here about their turret precision with no answer. I have not spun it a lot so it may fail but I will give it the chance. It's only flaw isn't really a flaw at all. It's FFP #8 reticle is a fantastic hunting reticle but for long range precision work it is too heavy at full power and the subtensions are too wide for any reference. Again it is perfect through the magnification range for hunting. The scope serves its intended purpose very well since I will only dial to 400 or so with it on game depending on wind.

FFP VS SFP is a matter of reticle design and personal preference. At low power the FFP referencing reticles are often hard to see until you get into mid power and up. Some are better than others but you get accurate feedback at all powers if you can read it. SFP Reiticles only provide accurate references at full power. Half power with an accurate zoom dial. For guys that don't like to shoot at max power this can pose a problem. Again a matter of personal preference. I tend to shoot at top power past 300 yards depending on the top value.

A scope with a reticle that doesn't match the dial is an absolute abomination to me. i.e. Mild dot with MOA turret. Stupid in my opinion...

Buy a MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Don't mix them. K.I.S.S.

The trend in tacticool has created a lot of new scopes and technologies. Shooters have a lot to choose from nowadays. I cannot deny that the new SWFA 12x42 has been impressive for its purpose. I paid less than $250 for it. Is it birder glass? No, but who really cares?

Sad that this is the kind of 'testing' recommendations are based on.

Friend of mine has a Zeiss Conquest V6 https://goo.gl/y8MpXA amazing quality. Okay just over $1,500 but the view is amazing!

So we can sleep when the wind blows
The best info I recieved today Thanks

Locally we have a really awesome gun smith
The only thing I think I have ever strongly disagreed with is thier scopes
I know why they sell them but its marketing for thier store

They always come back to the life time warrenty and I always think so what
All the Locals have this brand on thier gun and talk about how great they are most dont even have the eye piece adjusted (didnt know it was adjustable)
But honestly that are great guys and have great service just dont care for thier scope recommendations

This is probably why Cops dont carry Taurus they have a life time warrenty but do you trust your life to a warrenty?

Hank

I find it funny the number of people here that judge the quality of long range optics solely based on glass clarity.

You are not going to beat a Nightforfce NXS (used or on sale) in that price range.

the zeiss looks pretty cool, I like my NF nxs, not crazy about the reticle for hunting here in the woods.

+1

Adequate+ glass with superior function is where my money goes...

Great post. Leaving out the scope brand involved must have taken considerable effort!

Never packed in anywere, but I always took a spare rifle to camp when hunting far from home (more than an hour). Never had to use it, but it was there for just such situations. This is also why hunting rifles used to wear irons, which while limited, are better than completely wasting a trip. A spare, lightweight, pre-sighted scope, when weight considerations allow, or even a red dot weighing a couple of ounces would be cheap insurance in such a case. Wouldn't have saved your shot opportunity, but would have kept you in the game.

Wow, I could not have left out the brand name.

i would think the materials, manufacturing processes and chemistry that goes into quality optics, or anything else, determine the cost.
You may pay more for the high end but you also have a better chance of getting a better product.The less you pay the better chance you have of getting a lesser product. I shy away from products that talk too much of the great warranty. I would rather hear why their product won't need the warranty or what the return rate is. A product with free replacement means it did not cost much to produce. with me a free replacement will be sent down the road. A lifetime warranty just tells me the manufacturer does not have confidence in what they are selling.
As far as a 1500$ scope. An nxs nightforce would be near the top, it may not be the brightest, but the resolution and mechanics will be excellent. a used s&b, or a german zeiss(not the american market zeiss) would be a choice.. i am sure there are others, but i have experience with these.

I am not a fan of the NF IHR, and i don't like their moar, I have not looked at a mil dot type set up from them. My perception is that most manufacturers make either a sniper scope or a hunting scope... a perfect setup for me would be a zeiss Z plex in a NF 2.5-10 x 42.

Really ? The standard I use is which scope(s) do the job which includes stay zeroed when they get whacked good and hard. For that, you need experience or the experience of those you trust.
Half the cost of a Leupold, Burris, etc. is in the warranty costs ? Well, let's see here. I've got an old Leupold that I bought second hand many years ago. Made in the early 80's ? No letters in the serial number it's so old. I've got another that I bought new made in the late 80's. I've got an old B&L I bought new in 1972.
The B&L has been wacked really hard in one fall and less so in several others. No repair costs. The second hand scope has had a similar history. Two repairs, one for a reticle, and one for a frozen AO. The 80's scope I bought new, has had one broken reticle. The B&L has never needed repair.
Then there are the "old Leupolds" I bought 10-17 yrs. ago that have needed nothing. That includes three 6X42's, two FXII's, 4X's, one 3.5-10X40, and one 3-9X33 Compact. And you are trying to tell me their costs were 50% for repairs ?
BTW, I've seen more than one etched reticle break. At least the wire reticles I've broken still allowed me to use the still zeroed scope. When the etched ones break, the whole thing shatters. E

I'll also add that one to my list....

From the stuff I have bought:
1) Leupold VX6HD [I have the 12x and the 18x and I am still in the honeymoon phase]
2) Sightron SIII [turret too easy to turn]
3) Nightforce NXS [too heavy]
4) Weaver Grand Slam [no turret, should have got super slams]
5) Vortex RZR-1558 Razor HD LH [reticle too fine]
6) USO [too heavy and FFP makes reticle disappear on low power]
7) IOR [too heavy and FFP makes reticle disappear on low power]

NF compact to heavy?

A C458 Nightforce is 20.5 ounces for a 2.5x10x42 scope.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D0806TY/
Leupold could do that in 16.4 oz.
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-scopes/vx-5hd-2-10x42mm-cds-zl2

Leupold doesn't make a scope that could do what the NF 2.5-10x42 does...

Interesting that you turn your nose up at the weight of the NF compact than go buy a couple 19 oz vx6's ......

Have to agree not that it wouldn't be nice to have Leupold actually track like NF, the compact is fast becoming my favorite scope for my LR uses!

I left out Kahles

From the stuff I have bought:
1) Leupold VX6HD [I have the 12x and the 18x and I am still in the honeymoon phase]
2) Sightron SIII [turret too easy to turn]
3) Nightforce NXS [too heavy]
4) Weaver Grand Slam [no turret, should have got super slams]
5) Vortex RZR-1558 Razor HD LH [reticle too fine]
6) USO [too heavy and FFP makes reticle disappear on low power]
7) IOR [too heavy and FFP makes reticle disappear on low power]
8) Kahles Helia CL [ busy mil turret]

I tried to make a tracking video with this old 2004 Mark IV Leupold, but it seems the exit pupil moves. Although the human head may track it, my camera mounted on microscope rack and pinion did not. So I can only make small changes on a video.

*grins*
Yep.

I like the VX-6 HDs

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11860872/Leupold_VX-6_HD

Odds are better with the NF, I like the VX6 reticle, the optics are fine, but mine went back for their amazing warranty service in the first 4 months I had it.

I used to sing a different tune on reticles - preferring the tried/true Leupold stuff. But after using the IHR, MilDot and Velocity reticles in NXS scopes, I've come to prefer aiming "fine" over thicker stuff.
The illumination makes losing a reticle a non-factor.

While still a staunch Leupold supporter, with the NF scopes, I've come to truly appreciate 12 clicks actually (and always) moving 12 clicks - not 10 one time and 13 another.

Scott I too have learned to like the thinner reticles wasn't sure at first but am really liking everything the compact has to offer, including the tracking, and am still using a VX 6 on a 270 win but it doesn't get twisted at all , I'm not a leupold hater and actually like the VX6 line but will choose something dependable on a rifle I like to twist turrets on!

An apt description of 80% of 'outdoor' writing, professional and otherwise.

The older I get the less I appreciate Leupy scopes but the more I appreciate their thin reticle.

Do you try a lot of Leupold scopes or something?

Right there with ya!

I'm reminded of Belarus Tractors.

I was reading Varmint Al's website in ~2002 and he liked is $200 Tasco World Class Plus 10x40x50 scope with turrets. So I ordered one.
I used it for a few months as a test scope for Mausers I was sporterizing before the image shattered.
I sent it back under warranty, and .......18 months later [a year and a half] the replacement arrived.

Back then Gale McMillan, scope supplier to the US Marines, was explaining scopes to me. He said there never has been a Tasco company. It is one of 50 names put on scopes imported from a 3 different Asian factories.
I did notice my SWFA SS scope had the same turret knobs as the Tasco.
Back in the 1990s there was a gun list called the shooter's list or shooter's forum, where Chris Farris of SWFA explained optics. Before world wide web merchandising, I got a lot of scopes from SWFA through SHOTGUN NEWS.
Chris was knowledgeable, intelligent, and helpful.

But what ever parts are being picked from the Asian catalogs today for Sightron SIII and Weaver grand slam... those are good parts.

The OP's link is dead tonite.

I get the opportunity to try a bunch of them, and have owned and used several, as well. Leupold makes scopes that do some things well (lightweight, hold zero once adjusted, etc), but I stand by what I said about the NF 2.5-10...

I wish I could warm to the NF's but just cannot for some strange reason.

Start using them hard, you'll warm up quick.

Using SWFA's for the rough stuff and am more than happy.

I'm going to have to get one of these NSX Compacts. I'm thinking a Model C483 (NXS - 2.5-10x42mm - ZeroStop™ - .250 MOA - IHR - DigIllum™ - PTL).

Let me know if y'all see a deal on one!

Have you tried the mark 6 3-18? I have buddies who use the nxs 2.5-10 and while a fine scope indeed my mark 6 hasn't given anything up. Yes it is a few hundred dollars more unless you get mil/Leo price as I do. But I also shoot in mils and ffp which limits what compact NF scopes/reticle I can use.

Dozens. Incorrect adjustments values, off centered reticles, failure to return to zero, backlash, etc, etc.

As Jordan said, there isn't a Leupold made that competes with Nightforce when it comes to actually working.

As much as I like Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50, when I got the 6.5 Creedmoor and wanted to twist I bought a Nightforce 5.5-22X56. It is a joy to twist and have the group go where I want it. An interesting observation yesterday is the VX-5 3-15X56 beat my Nightforce by five minutes in the low light test on deer antlers 131 yards away.

Rick, any info if the build quality of these Zeiss are an improvement over previous models? Never owned one, but a very well respected and well know rifle builder told me he has had a ton of Zeiss fail on him and tries to stay away from them.

I sure hope they are better than the Zeiss Conquest HD 5-26X50. I purchased one a couple weeks ago and returned it. The Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50 beat it by 12 minutes in the low light comparison. I was hoping it would beat the 6500 because it is lighter. That means the VX-5 3-15X56 would beat it by 18 minutes!

I built this rifle in August 2016 and shot this deer with it in Oct 2016 and I never warmed up to the NXS.

1953 Win 70 30-06 bought for action 6-17-2016 $700 + $67 tax
NightForce 2.5-10x42mm NXS scope 5-29-2016 $1,896.99 Amazon
Pre-64 High Tech Specialties (Bansner) Stock finished, painted, textured, bedded, and decelerator pad 7-13-13 From [TomM1 on 24HCF] I bought a for $350
Shilen select match stainless 257 #3 taper 9" twist $255 2-3-2014 Barrelman
Seekins rings [not in pic]

Yes, ,leupold does not make a scope that will do what NF will do. I guess I will buy another with the damn IHR

For all the Leupold bashers, they supposedly have fixed the turret issue with the new HD's,,,has anyone put them thru a test yet ?

Maybe Lupold should shoot some video with them beating up and remounting and shooting. They supposedly fixed it!

No they haven't.


I keep hearing this, where does/did it come from?

I read a review by a "famous" writer(can try to find it), that said they changed/redesigned the turrets to fix the past problems..."so no more worries about turret twisting" ....he claimed, something to that effect.

Thank you. Nobody wishes Leupold would fix their stuff more than I, but no, the erector system is the same and they exhibit all the issues of every previous version.

Bwana1, all scopes fail. Some fail more than others, I am not going into harms way with my hunting rifle, but you do treat them roughly at times, then further some just break when your shooting them or dialing them. The ones that don't break are well known and the ones that break are well known. While there are armchair quarterbacks that love this one or that one, statistically speaking your chances of getting a poor device is much higher with Leupold than with SWFA or NightForce. However I have been recently encouraged by John's (Muledeer) test of the toric 3-15 scope. I think a Leupold would last for a while on a 10-22 or a 223 if you did not twist it a lot. Past that I have no faith.

It's a real shame Leupold hasn't figured it out yet. Weaver sorted out erectors years ago with their Micro-Trac. I was eyeballing the VX-5 1x5 for my 30-06, but if they have the same old erector problems i will need to pass.

What issues with Leupold?

I would like to test mine.

I have spent enough time in light labs on the drilled and tapped metal bench, both at General Dynamics and Corry. I was designing missile course correction and night vision, but I know how to test things.

I am going to guess that the scope turrets have spring opposed right hand threads, and one could get backlash from going counter clockwise if the spring did not follow all the way.

My father put split gear adjustment in the M55 artillery design back in the 1950s so there was no backlash. I still don't see that on even the fanciest guitar tuning keys.

Hey Rick,
Can we include her in the deal too???? grin