This year's Elk hunt was especially difficult due to heavy snow and 14 degrees F temperature. The usual process of digging in the pack for the rangefinder, getting the binoculars dialed in and taking off my gloves to operate the two devices was far more taxing then in less extreme situations. I currently own Nikon Monarch X bino's in 8.5x45 and a Nikon Rifle Hunter Rangefinder and have been happy with both. I though it might be time to solve the too many devices problem with either the Leica or Nikon.

As the Leica is now being discounted to 2k because a newer model has been released these two are seldom compared. I would appreciate any observations from those that have experience with both. Sig Sauer also has a new rangefinder binocular but they must not be shipping yet as there is no info on line.

From reading reviews the Leica add's a ballistic calculator and temp and pressure sensors to give the best shooting solution, and I imagine the glass is better - but is it 1000 $ better I am not sure - The Nikon comes with a lifetime warranty I believe (their website is confusing on this) and measures incline, like the Leica, but no calculator. I think the leica warranty is 5 years.

If I bought the Nikon I would get custom turrets for my scope and that would simplify dialing the shot. Or I could get a Kestrel and solve the real problem of accurate wind calculation - but this leads back to device sprawl. One downside of the Leica is that the custom ballistics memory card can only take one rifle cartridge - so you need two memory cards for two hunters and more hassle - if I am going to have a toy like this I would like to be able to calculate my son's shot as well as mine when we hunt together.

I would appreciate any feedback.

Sorry I can't comment on a comparison to the Nikon but I've been a geovid user for years and have been happy with mine which is the older model HD-R.

guyotrd,

With BRF’s it’s best to think when, not if the electronics die. It’s common for all the BRF models and brands to go out. When it does you are stuck with a $2k-3k heavy bino. With that, a full warrenty is probably important to most people unless you will sell them within a year or two, or just buy a new pair. With that, the Nikons would be my pick unless I absolutely needed the last teeny bit of optical performance and were willing to take the hit when the day comes.


As for having two ballistic solutions at a time- none of them do it and if you think about how that would work, you’ll see why it’s a bad idea. Your answer is to get a Kestrel and a BRF.

Remember, though, a Kestrel measures wind where you are, not the wind between you and the target. Only occasionally are they the same.

I have had a Nikon Monarch 800 rangefinder for over 10 years and it has served me well. I also have a Leica CRF-1000 rangefinder that works great and gives a better range than the older Nikon. Both work as advertised. I have looked at the various binocular rangefinders and find them to be too heavy for me. A couple of my hunting buddies have Leica and Bushnell BRFs and they seem to be satisfied with both. I'll stick with my Leica Trinovid binoculars and a separate LRF to avoid an electronic bed wetting with a $2k unit if it fails. Happy Trails

Thanks for the great feedback - I agree on the warranty and that is usually a deciding factor for me on glass and electronics. The Vortex had a lifetime, the Bushnell 2 yrs (which is hard to find the info) and the Leica has 5 years - I agree it appears the Nikon is the best choice - and they company is not going anywhere although I thought that on several of my high end audio products and was wrong. Vortex seems to be making quite a name for themselves - and I would hope they are good for the long haul.

As with any of these purchases I like to do a little extra research on the warranty to when I give to my kids they have a solid product as well.

I had the same question on this forum earlier in the year. Everyone here was extremely helpful. I had the same issues as you switching back and forth. I normally carry the Leupold 12X50 guide binos and a 1200 TBR range finder. I wanted to simplify things. I had a ton of Cabela's bucks so I decided to make the foray into range finding binos.

I was originally interested in the Vortex. Doug from Camera Land suggested the Nikon. A few others mentioned the Leica, which were about $250.00 more. I made my way to Cabela's to compare. I walked away with the Nikon. The Vortex was just okay. Frankly, I really couldn't really differentiate between the Nikon and the lower end Leica image/clarity wise. A few mentioned at dusk the Leica performed better. Since it was the middle of the day I couldn't compare. I walked away with the Nikon. A few mentioned the weight of them. I didn't find an issue with that. I carry them in an Alps chest harness. I figured if I didn't like them I would return them and maybe upgrade.

Drove home with them. I was ranging off the back deck at cows, horses and other landmarks. They were responsive and clear. I had a group javalina come into my stock tank just at dusk, which was 110 yards away from the house. They worked and picked them up just fine. I'll keep them.

I used them this year for mule deer and elk hunting. They performed to my expectations. The weight was not an issue. I'd buy them again.

Respectfully,
Dave

I keep hearing people say to keep things separate because eventually your LRF is going to die. I'd like to hear from one person who has had the LRF portion of their Leica Geovids, Swarovski EL range, Zeiss BRF, Bushnell Fusions, etc. go completely tits up and not be repairable (in or out of warranty). I don't want to hear about what your buddy told you his uncle's cousin's best friend read on the Internet. Let's hear first-hand accounts. Anyone, anyone?....

I've had a pair of HD-B's since they came out, and have never had a problem with them....they've been used a lot.

I also have a Vector 21, that I've used almost daily for the past eight years without fail.

I’ve been plenty happy with the Leica HD-B 3000. My reviews can be found elsewhere, but I haven’t compared them to the Nikon.

I've had the laser die on Geovid BRF 10x42 and Zeiss Victory RF 8x45. Both were covered under warrantee with little hassle.

I've been using a set of Geovid HD-B 2000's for the last 3 seasons and so far, so good.

I'd not buy Nikon when you can get Leica or Zeiss demo/lightly used for just a little more $$.

Shameless plug, I have a just back from repair pristine set of Zeiss Victory RF 8x45's I'll sell you.

This is of the ones that I have personally used extensively or that I have direct experience with because of teammates.

4-6x of the 15 or so Leica versions have failed. Some were Geovids and others were some of the newer versions. I have one of a mates that just died in the last month- Geovids, and it will not range past 250m.

1x of the four Swarovskis developed issues.

2x Bushnell Fusion 1600. One no longer ranges past 300m, the other the battery compartment broke (a known issue).

2x European model that is not sold in the US.


I do not have enough samples or time with the Zeiss to say definitively.





Some have failed nearly immediately, and some have lasted 10-13 years. Unfortunately some have failed within a couple months of the warrenty expiring. They are electronic devices. All electronic will fail eventually. All of them. Simple ones may last decades (Aimpoint red dots). Complicated ones (smart phones) may start having major issues at 18 months. Bino LRF’s are somewhere in the middle.


That isn’t to say “keep them separate”. Far from it. I would rather have a Vortex Fury or Bushnell Fusion than a Swaro/Leica/Zeiss bino and separate rangefinder. And I have done that. I worked for a time where I could use free Swaro and Leica binos with PLRF-15’s, Leica, or Bushnell handhelds, or Geovids. I used the Geovids until they failed (3-4 years) and then because there weren’t anymore available Geovids, I chose Bushnell Fusions over the “Alpha” binos. Regardless of what I’m hunting, my goal is to find something, identify it, and kill it. It’s simply faster with less errors when the two things are combined.



As for “glass quality”, we roll the Nikons pulled the badging off, painted them and handed them to guys saying they were the new Geovids and to turn in their old ones. They had no idea they weren’t Leica’s, and about half said they thought the glass was the same or, that the “new” ones were slightly better- this was comparing side by side. They could not see the difference between the first gen Geovids and the Nikon Laserforce.

After owning two pairs of the Leica LRF binos that both failed, you could not give me another.

Swaro or Zeiss is the question now. The Swaros work well, but are very boxy in hand to me.

The Zeiss' are intriguing, but have not used them.

Cannot speak to Nikon, but do not buy the Leicas.

So you have useless Leica Geovids sitting in a drawer somewhere?

I have had a pair of Leica geovid hd b since looking thru Pats a few years ago. I use em a lot as well. No issues what so ever.

I know of three Geovids that have had problems with the RF. Plus Jorge on here but can't recall if it was a RF issue or not. In all three cases making it right with Leica was a hassle.

When it comes to optics, warranty and CS that backs it up counts for a lot to me.

I have leica geovids my best friend has the nikon laserforce. Lieca range finder is much better no question. Glass on the leica is very compatible to my 2003 swarovski el's the nikon's are no where near as good in low light but really nice in the right conditions. Conditions are where a rangefinder makes its money all seem to work well in perfect conditions. The nikon seems to hold an advantage in really cold temps like 10 degrees or lower but in fog or rain the leica's are way better. Overall for us the leica's would be a better choice in low light so an advantage of 10 to 20 min before and after sunset. If you hunt really cold temps at really long distances the nikons would have the advantage. For me hunting big az country the ballistics on the leica help alot for long range shooting. My friend doesn't really couse hunt and it made no since for him to spend the extra money.

I have limited experience with only 1, the Geovid HD 2000, model 403. I liked everything about it except for the fact it would not range past 250-300 yds when temps dropped to around 30 degrees or so. I'm looking for a better option personally.

No, thankfully had purchased them from Cabela’s. Both failed within 30 days of purchase and they took them back without any hassle. The lady at the return counter mentioned I was not the to return them either.

I had a Sig 2000 quit on the third hunting trip it quit. Sig replaced it with a 2200 model, which is what I use now with my ten year old Swaro LRF monocular as a backup.

If you have issues with them in those temperatures, that will completely disqualify them for my use.

Leica has said that failing to function below 30 degrees is not how the Geovid is expected or designed to perform, and are quick to ask to inspect the unit under warranty, if still applicable.

Bought a pair of Geovid BRF's in 2004. They were replaced once for failing to range properly. About 5 years ago, that pair was replaced for a fogged barrel. Not sure which version I have but would not give it up easily.
PS. Mine have a lifetime warranty on optics and electronics. They did it for a year or so, when they first came out. For that reason, I will never give these up.

I was hot to trot to buy the Nikons, and was waiting for the EBAY 15% off, which was yesterday, but after reading a bunch of reviews, I decide against it.

Bought another Leica rangefinder instead.....

Who has new BRF Geovids for sale at $2k off? I’m in the market for some at $2k off regular price. 😎

Funny thing, my buddy has the HD-B and my Nikons are DEFINITELY better at ranging. Glass is probably 98%. I just used my yesterday in very frigid temps and they worked as desired. My buddy's Leicas are iffy below 20 degrees. Nothing is guaranteed in this line of products. I do find the Swaros hardest to use but they range good.

Hi Dennis
My buddies nikons only range maybe 800 yards off hand I easily get 1500 to 1600 off hand on non reflective targets. Also they have the ballistic info built in so much easier and faster to get come ups. That's why we think the range finder is better. Also ranges are much more consistent on readings on multiple ranges.
There is no comparison in the glass be honest its not even close especially in low light. But on the late elk hunt which was a snowy cold one this year on the day it was below 10 I could only get readings out to about 500 yards. I am now thinking of going back to a hand held rangefinder and el's. Not trying to argue either just wanted to respond. I live in Camp verde az and would be willing to do a side by side with you anytime.
Will

I can get 2200 yards holding my off-hand. Maybe not when it's 5 degrees outside but in more typical weather I can do that. I used them a lot guiding a bull hunt in 3C in September. I could get 2100-2200 on juniper trees as long as it wasn't mid-day bright sun. The ballistic thing is nice if you trust it.

There’s been several guys who had some initial problems with their Geovids and the laz working properly...As for the optical clarity of the nocs-They’re excellent. I would like to know if the “fix” is in on the Leicas. Seems guys were happy once they received the replacement...😎

Leica had an issue with a sizeable early run of the 2000 and 2200. They had a component fail resulting issues when operating below freezing. This was ultimately fixed when an alternate component became available. The snafu resulted in a bunch of refurbished units being sold at fantastic discounts this past year. If your buddy is having issues, he should contact Leica. The unit should function at those temps.

Thanks dennis I think I'll let him know to get his looked at. I assumed that was the norm.
Thanks Kingston I will contact leica about the cold issue.

Given the issues and limitations of some of the models discussed, I think I"ll stick to separate units for now. Happy Trails

I had separate for years. Everyone, including me, who has switched to the binocular style has wondered why we didn't do it years ago. The separate ones are harder to hold steady, easier to misplace and just additional weight. I might still use one for bow hunting because I like only carrying the little 8x30s around my neck and I can pin the RF to a retracting leash but for everything else, especially guiding, I like the binocular style way better. I can tell you that when I used a stand alone RF there were a lot of times where I didn't have time to switch from Binos to RF to rifle; nice to be one and done.

I had a chance to compare the Nikons, $1200 to the the Leica Geovid R for $1400 yesterday. In a huge store at about 60 yds the Leica's crushed the Nikons in optical quality. I would have still gone for the Nikon's because of the lifetime no questions warranty, except they had a fair amount of Chromatic Aberration and worst of all there was a substantial blue tint, which I had seen on pictures on-line but thought it might just have been the camera used. That would probably effect right before and after sunrise and sunset viewing at distance right when the hunting is best.

In addition, I am not racist or anything but have found that stuff made in China is often lower quality - because WE drive that paradigm. Unfortunately at a Macro level our whole culture seems to be focused on price instead of quality. There are exceptions where QC is tight and I am sure in 20 years their stuff will be much better, just like made in Japan was also synonymous with lower quality in the the 70's and is as good or better than here now. As an exception, my Monarch X are made in China and they are quite good.

When I compared both to my old stand alone Nikon Monarch X and they were close enough to the Leica's that I am still satisfied with them, but I really want to consolidate. There was no blue tint or CA in the Monarch X.

I found the Leica HD-B Demo's in the 2000 and 2200 for a substantial discount, and the ballistics calculator would be useful. Does anyone know the difference between the two, perhaps the range?

Now the big question is to get the 8 or 10 power. I selected 8.5 instead of 10 on my old Nikon's primarily because the ability to get a steady image when holding free hand for longer periods and also because of low light advantage. I observed that the military who really rely on them for life and death typically use 7 or 8 power. But.. as these will be used for longer range shooting perhaps I should just learn to hold the 10's steady. The question becomes where do you cross over from a Bino to a spotting scope?

I'd be willing to bet every electronic component in every single RF/bino unit is Chinese, even Swaro's, Leica's, etc. I bet they all are.

I wouldn't bet against you.

I fear you are right sir - just like the [bleep] I have to replace way too early in my expensive German and British Cars.

8x vs. 10x depends on what/where you’re hunting. Generally, if I need a range finder, chances are I need a 10x optic.

I agree, thats why Athlon has their unit which is undercutting everyone else. They stole the fugging technology,

Just how much of the unit is CHinese and are the lenses and transmitter the same quality as what Leica , Zeiss or Swaro are putting in

Leica hd-b gets used thousands of times a year. I shoot P-dogs a lot ,have gone thru multiple batteries, not because they don't last I just use them all the time. No problems. Have only had them 3 years but they work great. My biggest problem is that I'm colorblind and they were the only ones that the LED was bright enough foe me to see, I can see the readout in any light.