Good bud is putting together a DG rifle, plans to put a .416 Rem #5 blue Shilen on a post 64 shot out .264 WM. Plan to use original stock that I will Steel Bed.

This one has the New Haven trigger adjusted to perfection, so that should be good to go.

Figure the #5 Shilen in .416 at 24" should go around 4#'s, the action is probably near 3#'s, the stock approx 36oz (2.2#'s).

That comes to approximately 9.2 #'s before scope.

He's looking at the Trijicon Accu Point 1-4x24, but the ER is only 3.2"

The VX-6 1-6 x 42 Firedot is another option, but some have reported QA issues with Leupold, ER is 3.8", which is better than 3.2". Both scopes weigh around 14 oz.

I'm recommending NECG irons and QD rings which will add a few ounces.

Would appreciate input on these decisions as he's looking to me for technical issues.

DF

I've seen a lot of DG rifles in magazines wearing a Leupold 1.5-5x20. I've had several on deer rifles and they mount low, are light weight, have a great fov and generous eye relief. My current Vari-X lll has the heavy Duplex and it is excellent in low light conditions. That very large exit pupil diameter means that you can get the entire sight picture very rapidly with your cheek weld less than straight on which I would think would be a great asset on a DG rifle. It sure works well on my walking around Savage 99 deer rifle.

What about a Trijicon Accupoint 1-6x24, it has an eye relief of 3.9" constant throughout it range. That would be my pick.

I appreciate the input, will discuss options with him this weekend.

DF

The Leupold 3x20 Big Bore would be my choice. 3.9 inches of eye relief.

Another scope company claiming to have overcome the laws of physics...

I’d probably put the plain old 2.5x Leupold on it myself. Or maybe order the older 3X. Either would give plenty of 416 sorta magnification.

He thinks those don't have enough light transmission in dim light. I have several and like them.

I'm going let him play with my .375 H&H M-70 with Victory 1.5-6x42. Not sure he'd want to go that far, but it does have great light transmission in dim light. One poster who hunts Africa commented what a good leopard gun this would be, shooting at night over bait. I guess if one had fast expanding bullets...

DF

Look at the Swarovski Z6i 1-6.

I used an M8 3X Leupold for years on several different rifles when I was backing up bear hunters and shooting my own. Swapped to a straight 6X about 15 years ago for a few bears and have had a Vortex Viper 1-4X24 on it for about 8 years. For a cheap scope it has been just fine on a 375AI.

I like the size of straight tube scopes and have used the following :
Leupold 1-4x20
Weaver 1-3x20
Bausch and Lomb 1.5-6x20
Zeiss diavari c 1.5-4.5x18
Swarovski 1.25-4x24

All were good scopes .. I’d rate them in the order I listed from ok to excellent .

The Leupold was “eh , ok” , hard to zero
The weaver was very surprisingly nice , true 1x and fast , once I got used to it’s slight “fish eye” and could ignore it

B&L had excellent optics and excellent gloss finish but was a pain to zero (rock solid once where I wanted it )

That Zeiss is a favorite , long and easy to mount on long actions

Swarovski is typical beauty to look through

As always there are more I’d like to try .. haha

I have a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with capped turrets mounted on my DGR. It is rock solid, has 3.7" of eye relief and illumination if need be. I have used many other scopes in this role over the years, but this one is very versatile.

I agree especially if you're using an IHR reticle. Sure hate nightforce stopped making the 32mm obj.

One not mentioned is Nightforce's NX8. I've run one on a lightweight .308, a .375 Ruger, and an AR. I really like the scope and it would be my first choice for dangerous game in anything other than extreme low light.

Yep, that Zeiss is a great scope, here on a Len Brownell Champlin and Haskins 7RM. Long tube, easy to mount, great glass.

You can sometimes find them on Ebay, not that cheap, even for a vintage glass. This gun with wide spaced rings and quarter rib isn't easy to scope.

DF

I used two VX6' 1-6's on my 404 and 375. Ran close to 600 rounds through them and used them in Zambia last June. I really like them and had no QC issues at all.

If I was looking, that is where I would start.

Then I would look at Trijicon, Nightforce and SWFA. It would probably come down to reticle and sight picture. I had a Trijicon 1-4 and sold it because the reticle took up too much FOV.

The Nightforce reticles on low power scopes seem awful busy for a DG rifle and geared towards the AR market but are hell for tough, so an SWFA would probably get the nod.

I used a Leupold 1.5-5X on my M70 416 Rem in Zimbabwe and it was fine though in low light the 20 mm was limiting though did not affect my hunt. It now wears a Burris 1.75-5X Signature Safari with Posi-Lock. Too me, a far better scope than the Leupold when the sun goes down and just feels very, very well made. I never had any issues zeroing the Leupold and it holding it for 400+ rounds. My M70 375 H&H I took to Alaska wore, and still does, a Leupold VXII 2-7X. Zero issues with this choice both optically and mechanically, again with more rounds fired than the 416. The 375 uses Talley LW's and the 416 uses Talley QD's.

My 416 that I'm taking after buff this year has one of the Swaro PH 1.25-4x24 scopes with a 4a reticle. If not that then the 1.5-6x42 PH.

I've had such bad luck with Leupold scopes I won't have one on anything that matters. Certainly not on a DG rifle.

DocRocket has a Trijicon on his .375 H&H. It’s sweet.

I think it’s the TR24.

I also have a VX3i 1.5-5x20 in QD rings I'm gonna take tomorrow with the .375. He can swap scopes back and forth to see what he likes. The Victory is sighted in and I'm dropping off some 270 Speer loads in case he wants to bust a hog or two. Those should do the job. Although the 1.5-5 isn't sighted in, he can see how it feels and handles.

DF

I have a Leupold VX-III 1-4x20 in Warne detachable mounts on my .404 Jeffery. So far, the combination is working well for me.

I like the looks of that one.

Someone posted 3.2" ER. I'm seeing 3.5" on line.

That's better than 3.2", but still seems a bit close. Anyone having problems, 3.5" ER with this scope on big boomers?

DF

I have one on a .416 RM, no problem at all. Great scope.

Reach out to DocRocket. He raves about his. He ‘s actually got two for the same rifle in QR rings. They’re zeroed for two different loads.

Bushnell 6500 1.25-8x32MM. Works great in my .416Rem Win70 Safari Express. Killed lots of big stuff with it.

I have 3 dangerous game rifles right now, the scopes include a vx5HD 1-5, vx3i 1.5-5, and a Nikon monarch 3 1-4.

Obviously the leupolds are nice but I’ve been very impressed with the Nikon monarch 3.

Dang DF, that old 3X Leupold you sold me would have been perfect, that said, I used a 1.5-5 Leupold on a pre-64 375 H&H in Africa for plains game, one shot at near 200 yards on a Nyala bull was cake, as was a 20 yard shot on a Bushpig in the dark fleeing the light at 30 MPH.

THIS.

I sent 2 Leupoold VX-II 1-4x20 to their eternal reward with my 375HH in less than 25 rounds each. After Leupold replaced it the second time I put it on eBay. The 6500 Bushnell i replaced it with has now at this point seen over 500 rounds and has never had a cap off to adjust POI.

I sold the rifle to a family member recently and he's shooting the living heck out of it and its still going strong as ever.

I also had a Nikon Monarch that served me very very well on a hot loaded and lightweight 45/70 that never gave me a stitch of trouble. Shot literally thousands of rounds through that gun and the scope never moved...and it kicked a lot harder than the 375 did

The Nikons are excellent scopes I agree. They dont seem to get the respect they deserve around here but you have to spend a lot more to get anything better...and even then your not getting much more

DF, your 1.5-5x20's likely have the standard Leupold Duplex, but don't overlook the heavy Duplex as a low light option. It is no target setup, but does that heavy Duplex ever stay with you into full dark long after a finer cross hair has disappeared. My all time favorite low light scope is the 30mm Zeiss Diavari-V 1.5-6x42 that is on my 7mm-08. The heavy side crosshair sections do a pretty strange optical illusion and fill in the narrower crosshair center section in the near dark. I can't explain it, but it happens at least with my eyesight. Looking through one of those upper end Euro scopes in the near dark is like someone has a light on the target over your shoulder. Those Euro guys go out and stay out and hunt lots later than we can and they have some outstanding glass. The 1.5-6x42 Ziess is a little better than the heavy Duplex 1.5-5x20 Leupold into full dark as I've compared the two side by side, but not by much and both will easily go an hour after we can legally deer hunt in Wisconsin.

He can't have it, you got it...

He doesn't like the 1.5-5x20 very much. May get him interested in the Trijicon TR-24.

DF

I have seen quite a few Leupold 1.5-5x20 scopes on kickers, but if he is concerned about low light performance it is not optimal.

A good quality 1-4x24 would be an interesting option. With Fortis replacing VIsus in Leica line-up, it may worthwhile to see if Visus or ER 1-4x24 are being discounted anywhere.

Meopta Meostar 1-4x22 is another good option.

ILya

Whatever I could get with a German #1 or trijicon triangle.....not that I shoot a lot of African DG, but I’ve found nothing faster for shooting hogs and such being flushed out of thick cover, in a 1-4 or similar. I love both my Trijicon and Leupold 1-4s with pointy posts in the middle. No issues in the lowest of light, inside 100 yards, anyway.

Thanks, Ilya. I'm trying to help him get the best option for that big gun.

I just don't know as much about those kinda guns and optics as I do about mroe conventional ordinance.

I appreciate all the help.

DF

I hear ya.

At least he has a good bit of time to consider his options. He looks to me for technical stuff; I'm more of a Loony than he is.

DF

10-4, it's riding nicely on a syn stocked 98 Mauser 458 win Mag in Leupold short lever rings and bases, perfect setup imho.

I’ve actually ended up ordering a few more of the nikons, I really like them in this role.

Zero issues with them for 40 years.

Nice buff!

I used a 1-5x20 Leupold on a 375 Weatherby to take a 42 inch buff in the Selous in 2010, I think. It worked, but when I got home the view through it was fuzzy and it got to go back for some of that wonderful customer service. It's on a 416 in the back of the safe now, but if I was going to ready that gun for a hunt the first thing I would do is swap scopes. Like I said, just bad luck, because a lot of folks use them and like them.

I've been a Leupold user for many decades.

Recently had to send some back for failure to maintain zero. Great CS, they fixed or replaced everything I sent.

BUT, it's hard to send one back from out in the boondocks, and I've been out there with them without an issue. So far, that is.

Like some posters, I may do something else for a serious hunt. I'm thinking I've been pretty lucky so far, maybe I shouldn't push my luck.

I know, high dollar ones can fail and the more robust tactical types seem overly bulky and heavy.

So far, I like my NF SVH 3-10x42 Forceplex. Heavier and bulkier, but not that bad. But, it's on a Creed, not a DG rifle.

DF

I had a seldom used VX3 1.75-6x32 with a Post Duplex reticle from the Custom Shop that I was going to use on a .375 H&H and finally gave up on the idea. A guy from the Custom Shop told me it was the toughest variable scope the made and I read about a couple of high end rifle shops that used that scope for testing big bores. If one does not care about illumination I think it is a good choice. The Leupold 1.5-5x20 is probably a good choice and I keep one with a German #4 reticle on hand as a back up scope on some hunting trips. Then again, for transmitting light at night a bigger objective tube may be desirable.

I also think a Leupold VXR 2-7x32 with a 30mm tube and a FireDot 4 reticle is worth checking out if one desires illumination as and option. I'm using a 3-9x40 version on my .338 with the FireDot 4 reticle. Good scopes for the money, especially when used as a "set and forget" scope. Do folks twist turrets on a DGR rifle?

Haven't thought about the VXR 2-7 with Firedot. If it's robust enough, that should work. VXR glass is said to be about VX-2 level. IME, VX-2 glass is pretty close to VX-3 glass, MUCH better than the older Vari X II and VX II. The VX-2 is a good scope.

Firedot has a 2 yr warranty, not lifetime, I read that the Leica has a 5 yr warranty on electronics. I wonder how much it would cost to fix one of those when, not if, it goes down. Electronic stuff doesn't seem to last forever.

DF

I have a 1.5-6 Kahles on mine with an illuminated dot and crosshairs. The illumination is key if leopards are on the menu but is surprisingly helpful when shooting a black buff in the deep shade. It is in Talley QR mounts and I take a Leupold 2.5-8 in spare rings. BTW the sponsor of Accurate Reloading has a couple of 2.5-8's on his pair of 375/404's (basically 375RUM) with thousands of rounds through them with no problems.

My 416 Rem was put together just as you describe - originally a model 70 Classic CF 264WM. I had NECG Masterpiece FS installed. It has a custom QD RS that came with a rifle I picked up along the way, which sits on a steel Warne Weaver slot base on the receiver ring.

On the 416 Rigby and 450 Rigby RSMs, I use the NECG peeps as a RS. These mount directly on the Ruger integral bases, but they're also offered for other mounting arrangements. I use either the largest peep available or drill the opening to that dimension - 0.215".

Although I have scopes in rings for them, I have moved away from optics on these 3 rifles for close range DG. I see these 3 as elephant rifles, where I prefer irons rather than optics. Just my preference, having been in several situations with elephants that confirmed the fact that what you can't see peripherally might hurt you badly. Rather be looking at the world directly than through a tube, in that particular setting.

On my 404s, I use 1.75-6x, with back up express, shallow-V RS and replace the FS with NECG large diameter white beads. Fast and very effective at the range I use irons. Just my 2 cents YMMV.

My buddy is thinking about no irons, doesn’t like them. I told him DG rifles usually have irons. He said a low powered glass has a good FOV, so maybe he doesn’t need irons. He does want a barrel band front sling stud.

What would you tell him?

DF

"The purpose of the sporting rifle is to please its owner." Finn Aagaard.

If he doesn't want irons, he doesn't need to put them on his rifle.

Finn also proved that a low powered scope was faster than open irons.

Only one of my DG rifles has iron sights and when I quit using Leupold scopes, I also quit QD rings. Haven't felt handicapped yet.

His good bud, who has been to Africa several times, has a 1-6 Swaro on his Sako .416 Rem, likes the 1X for fast handling.

That's an expensive scope but if he's convinced, he can afford it.

We'll document that project as it progresses. The donor M-70 has been sent to David Christman.

DF

What scope(s) are you using on your DG rifles?

DF

On the 416 Rem mags I have the Swarovski Habicht 1.25-4x24 with #4 reticles.

If you count 375s as dangerous game rifles the H&Hs, Weatherby, and RUM all have 1.5-6x42s with either duplex or #4 reticles.

If you count leopards as dangerous game, there is a 338 with an illuminated 1.5-6x42 and my newest leopard/plains game rifle, a 358STA, has a Leica Visus 2.5-10x42 waiting for it...although it wouldn't surprise me if a Habicht didn't end up landing on it too!

Those Swaros are all older scopes but my Scotch ancestors won't let me buy new ones at twice+ the going price of these older ones, for a marginal improvement in glass.

They all sit in Dual Dovetail rings made by some outfit in Oregon...

The 1.5x6 Leupold on my 375 has been a good all around scope. Lots of other good suggestions. Especially if leopard ore on the ticket I would most likely bring two scopes in quick detachable Tally's. At least one would top out at 6x+ but no higher than 10 and have an illuminated recticle and up to a 42mm objective. The other would be in the 1-4 or 6x or 2-7x range or straight 2.5 -3X and a straight tube or smaller objective 33-40mm and some variation of the German #4. If the primary scope is illuminated then the backup can be a more standard scope that you could leave with the PH if your so inclined.

For night use, load tuning and longer range a little bit more magnification can be useful.

Schmidt & Bender has a reputation for being one of the best low light scopes but this is mainly from the ones with 56 mm objectives which is too much except for a dedicated moon light scope. Swarovsky, Zeiss, Leica, Kahles and Nightforce all have well deserved low light reputations. Trijicon does as well but not sure how those rank with the Alpha list. If I found a used Swaro that might become the primary scope with the 1.5-6x42 being first choice for a single scope or the medium of a pair of scopes.

Just talked to David Christman. He'll have to mill the rear action bridge to open up the port for full 3.6" mag, tap and drill rear action bridge. The feeding ramp will need work. It feeds OK from the right rail, ctg pops out from the left rail, probably due to feeding ramp not being wide enough. He's also gonna install a Wyatt extended box mag. It'll take some action work, not a deal breaker. He'll have a great gun without a lot of expense.

Bud is going without irons, is looking at a Trijicon 1-4x24 TR-24 with triangle post reticle. That's a robust scope, won't need QD rings.

The triangle post at 1X should be fast, may out perform irons with less than young eyes...

DF