My eyes loose the last 10 minutes or legal light through this scope. More particularly my eyes loose the reticle in the background. Vx3 and a 3i both 3.5x10-40 with the duplex. Where would the next reasonable upgrade lead me to? Leupold and i like what ive been hearing about Meoptas. What do yall say?

I think the Meopros would be the next step. Not a huge step but I can tell a difference. I don't know much about them but I would expect VX5 to be a step up also

Man, I ain’t never experienced that unless it was due to yardage and I hunt past legal deer light for hogs. I would say you might as well get illumination.

soooo, you want to spend $1k or more for those last 10 minutes?

Best bet, try to find a used Leica ER for $600-ish.

Second best, open the wallet and watch the bills fly...

Cheapest bet: give the critter the win and enjoy a glass of wine back at the lodge.

I had simular problem.
Sent my VX-3 to Leupold and had heavy duplex installed.
Made a big difference in low light

My pick would be a swaro Z3 with 4a.

That one should work. A Meopta with a #4 would likely do it too.

I have a couple of Razor LH HD's. I keep trying but I can't convince myself that my Swaro Z3 is better. I actually think the Razor has the edge, no pun intended. They can be had for an amazing price right now. The reticle isn't quite as bold as a traditional #4/4a but it is better than a duplex.

Illumination in a scope with decent glass would be another option. I haven't explored this route with hunting optics so I'm not exactly sure what's out there.

Nightforce SHV illuminated

This. Hadnt considered that. I believe ill give this a try first.

What does a reticle change cost? Leupolds hold their value well. I think you'd spend less and have better optics by selling it and buying a Meopta.

Leupold quoted me $125 a few weeks ago to install a post and duplex in a 2.5-8x36.

ding ding ding ding.....

Not to be one that doesnt take advice given, but how would the vx-r 3x9 or 4-12x40 with say the firedot duplex treat me compared to the vx3/3i's i have now. Beside the addition of illuminated dot is the glass comparable, less, better? This would would put me ooh n the 525-550$ range.

Lets change tracks and throw in a meopta with the new dichro reticle. Experiences with these?

For my eyes, an etched reticle sticks with me longer than a wire. You’d save a good amount of money selling and picking up a used Zeiss Conquest.

If you’re not going to go that route, keep an eye on Tract Optics’ outlet. A demo Toric or Tekoa could be had for the value of the Leupold + the cost of a reticle change and you’re into far superior glass.

Leupold told me they want two hundred bucks for a rerticle change, Ouch. I have a German #4 in a VX3 1.5-5x20 and ya can't miss it. I had a Leupold Post-Duplex and like it and the Fire Dot 4 in the VXR line is a good reticle. My Nightforce SHV 3-10x42 has the illumination option and it is a more positive and better thought out illumination nob then the Leupold's I have had. The Forceplex reticle on the Nightforce is ok, but I would of liked something like the Firedot 4 reticle. All of these reticles allow hits to 500 yards, which takes care of my needs for moose and caribou.

I am fortunate to have moose pass through my 2.5 acre lot on a regular basis and have been able to sight on them in dark timber with many scopes that me and friends had. A VX5 2-10x42 had very good low light glass, but the wide Duplex left me wanting, even with the illumination option.

I think a reticle change would help and feel it is more important then expensive glass that may only be 5% better, but if ya got the cash.

I would like to look through a big Schmidt $ Bender with a 50 to 56 mm objective just to see how good it is, but would not want to carry it around or pay for it.

I have not done side-by-side comparisons at dusk. However, side-by-side comparison of VXR 3x9x40 -vs- VX3 3.5x10x40, in normal daylight, the VXR glass is perceptibly clearer according to my 62 year old eyes.

My perception, the thin wires on the VXR reticles split the difference between the thin wires on Leupold's normal duplex reticles, and the thin wires on their heavy duplex reticles. Even without the red dot, I like the subtension of the thin wires in the VXR reticles. JMO...

Mg
I understand where you are coming from. No offense to some of the guys here but they do not realize how dark it can get in a pine forest with the canopy. Also some states do not allow the late hunting we have. We are allowed 1 hr after official sunset. That is dang dark in woods that never loose its canopy. With all that said I think the glass you have would do much better with a heaver duplex. The Zeis Conquest had a great compromise thickness. Recently I have been moving more and more towards the Zeiss/ Meopta lines because the extra is available right out of the box and I definitely notice it.
GreggH

NO they don't. I went thru that scenario in SC and AL until Alabama changed their laws to 1/2 hour before sunrise and 1/2 hour after. I would look at a 50-56mm. Low end would be Zeiss V4 3-12x56 with a #60 reticle. Meopta R1 with a #4 should work nicely as well, both these will be a lot more bulletproof then a Swaro Z3 4-12x50.

I have one of the VX3 1.5-5x20 with the #4 reticle. That is definitely a visible reticle. In very low light, 30mm tubed / 24mm objectives scopes to my eyes do much better at target visibility. Reticle visibility, again to my eyes, this reticle is one of the best.
I do not have a 50 or 56mm Schmidt and Bender. I do have a couple of 42mm ones that I have hunted with the past couple of years. 1.5-8x42's, 1st focal plane #4's, FlashDot illumination.
My opinion, a very good low light scope, for the distances that I can identify a legal moose rack.

From my little informal comparisons, I think the Swarovski Z6, 1.7-10x42mm with the Plex reticle does well in low light. I find this reticle very usable and I have no biatches about the optical view. So far, I really like this scope.

I have some 50mm higher end scopes but frankly have put them on rifles that I don't really use, The "what if" rifles. So far, for the distances that I will shoot the 42mm's work. 42mm objectives definitely have an advantage over the straight tubed. The 42 / 50mm comparison, is not as noticeable difference to my mid-20th century eyes.

All eyes and perceptions differ. In my opinion, looking through scopes in decent daylight or a store room tells me nothing. Unfortunately, actual use in the conditions that I will be using them is the truth teller.

For optical view, reticle visibility, and versatility I am satisfied with the Swarovski Z6, 1.7-10x42 Plex. I am a set & forget scope user and range limited. I cannot speak to its "toughness". It is not a military grade sniper scope.

You want a VX5 3-15, CDS, with firedot. The firedot has variable brightness and is perfect for low light and a dark target - like a black hog. It seems brighter than my VX3 scopes.

The #4 reticles generally stand out more in low light, but be careful with Meopta as their #4 center lines are fairly thin. The outer lines are nice and bold, so you can bracket the target somewhat. I believe the VX-3i have an etched reticle (not sure on this - at least in terms of the duplex), which in my opinion seem to hold up in low light better, but I haven't used my 3i in hunting situations yet so can't comment on it.

If you can find a Conquest with a #4 reticle, that one as very bold and about perfect. I had one and swapped it this spring, and have regretted it ever since.

All that being said, to my eyes, my Meopros are brighter than my VX-3i.

I think a Meopta would be an upgrade for sure.

If budget is not a constraint, the S&B Polar series is supposed to be the be-all-end all in light gathering.

Vx-r would do it nicely.
Better glass in daylight, and the firedot in reduced light. You can dim that dot way down so it won't wash out the image or distract. Just a nice red dot that should turn into a nice blood trail.

The VX-R glass is closer to the VX-2 than the VX-3i. The etched, lit reticle should be more visible at either end of daylight though.

FYI, We have just worked a GREAT deal on some Meopta riflescopes that we will officially be announcing in a week or 2, however, as we are a part of this forum and do our most for all of you, if the Meopro series in 4.5-14x44, 4.5-14x50, 6.5-20x50 and their Illuminated 3.5-10x44 BDC2 is of interest please give us a call, 516-217-1000. You'll be glad that you did

i'd take dougs offer up and roll with that 4.5-14x50mm with a #4 or illum 4k ret personally. i do like the zeiss v4 3-12x56 with illum #60 ret though and can be had for a $650ish.
Big Ed

I am afraid this call may be taking place soon. Bonus is coming.

The 4.5-14x44 HTR with BDC reticle is LEGIT. My favorite 1" tubed scope BY A LONG SHOT..............I've seen a few of them. Doug will hook you up!! And you wouldn't regret it.

I've done extensive shooting with that model of scope(I have over 1/2 dozen of them). They TRACK perfectly and the field of view/glass quality is OUT of it's price range..............by a LOT

+1

Or just buy the Fullfield with the #4 illuminated dot from Doug for like $250. I compared it to my same sized Vx3 with B and C and the brightness of the two were identical past dusk and before dawn in fairly thick environment.. Difference is the dot would carry you an extra few minutes for sure. I didn't want to believe it but don't think my eyes lie. Had an older buddy, about 63 year old next to me and he preferred the Burris.

Is the dot brightness adjustable on these?

absolutely - 1- 10 and very convenient. In between each setting is "off" so you don't have to crank it to turn off. Also lowest and brightest are next to each other. The two you may likely use most. Lastly they use a common CR2032 battery -same as you might be using in your cap that has an LED- probably the most common of those little flat round battery. I tell you that reticle had me sold years ago when I found it in a cheap Mueller for a buddy. Later when Dad's eyes went we got him one and it allowed him to keep hunting. Burris didn't even list it on their site so I freaked out when I discovered Natchez had them for like $150. I told folks here about them and several Fire members bought them.
I would gladly spend the extra hundred for it. Very well worth it. Doug earns his business.

I really like the clarity of the VX5 glass and it does very well in low light. In my opinion Leupold's Wide Duplex is not a good reticle for hunting when the light dims, so one is left depending on a battery. The 3-15 has better reticle choices then the 2-10 VX5. But neither scope offers as good a reticle as the Post-Duplex or Fire Dot #4 offered in the VX-R line.

Following back up on this. Past 2 nights did some side by side comparison here on the farm, at dusk.

First night compared a VXR 1.24x4 scope that I sent back to Leupold to have a Fire dot 4 (German #4) reticle installed, and, VX6 1-6 with what looks like a 4A reticle. Had a small deer walk out at 380-400 yards just as the sun went down over the horizon. While I like the thicker reticle wires of the VXR, I could make out the deer in a plowed field against wooded background for 5 to 7 minutes longer with the VX6. VX6 also had significantly wider FOV. Finally, VX6 fast focus ring turned much easier than the VXR. VX6 gets the nod. Will check to see if the Custom shop can install a thicker reticle in the VX6 when they are back in operation.

Second night compared a 10 year old VXR 4x12x40 with Fire Dot Duplex (Leupold #111238), with a new VX3i 4.5x14x40 Duplex (#170703). I really like the side Focus on the new 4.5x14. However, lost the reticle in the treetops at 420 yards about 7-8 minutes before I lost the tree tops with the VXR 4x12. VXR reticle was still visible, without illumination, long after I could discern what I was looking at. Was thinking to put the 4.5x14 on a rifle build for combination target shooting and hunting. However, given that the VXR is easier for me to get behind, and the thicker wires are easier on the old eyes, I think the older scope gets the nod, at least for my use case.

Kinda interesting the nuances you notice when you get the scopes out side by side to compare. So, for me, overall low light performance: VX3i < VXR < VX6. However, I like the subtension of the VXR reticles over both the VX3i and the VX6 reticles, given the limited samples I have on hand.

All visual comparisons done without illumination. Also, the VX6 1-6 is about 1.5" longer than the VXR 1-4 , so more latitude on eye box adjustment on a long action MRI Sako 691.

Would it make a difference to switch from a 40mm to a 50m objective?

50MM's are supposed to gather more light. However, I have always stuck with 40mm objectives to keep the scope centerline low for better stock weld. JMO...

Interesting to hear you put the vxr over the vx3i. Curious if you have tested a vx3 next to a vx3i and notice a difference.

I have a bunch of VX 3 scopes. The VX5 with fire dot is brighter. I have one one my piggie rifle.

Recently mounted a tract toric on my Montana and its a definite upgrade in every way

Have not compared the VX3 to VX3i. However, first noticed a difference ~6 months ago when comparing a VXR 3x9 to VX3 3.5x10. VXR had a discernible advantage over the VX3 in terms of image quality during normal daylight. Did not do the twilight drill with that pair.

I have a VX3i 1.5x5 on my Mauser. May try the twilight test with that scope and the VXR 1x4. Just curious...

Except weight. I’d be willing to try one if they weren’t dang close to 30 mm territory.