Hear a lot about if you have an exit wound, there is more of a blood trail.
I shot a smaller buck yesterday,130 gr AB, 6.5 Swede Mauser, about 2800fps, distance was about 150 yards.

Caliber hole going in, about 1"-1 1/4" hole going out. Heart was almost cut in two, inside lungs was jello. Barely clipped off shoulder. Lot of blood clotting between that shoulder and rib cage, very little in shoulder. He went about 30 yards,no blood trail at all,even where he fell. It has been my experience that one or two holes ,usually there is very little blood to begin with. I guess you really have to blow a big hole in them to get it.

Shown is the exit.

I say that two holes increases your odds of a blood trail, and a bigger exit increases them even more, but nothing is absolute. I've also seen a few good exits fail to leak much, if any. I figure something clogged up the hole or slid in front of it.

How much of a blood trail can you have once the heart is taken out? Not much once the pump is gone. Good shooting.

I have noticed less of a trail of the heart has been taken out. Pure lungs or arteries leading to/from heart and blood everywhere.

I hit a doe once in front of the legs at the front of the brisket. I don't know which arteries lay in there an go towards the neck but to say she left a blood trail would be an understatement. Heart was still pumping so blood was still flowing.

Good shooting - congrats on the deer!

Agree with the previous comments. I like 2 holes as well - better chance of a good blood trail. Most deer I've shot through the heart go on a short death run with very little blood like yours did.

I think you proved again, that with the bullet in the correct spot, you don’t need a blood trail.

I would say no blood trail because you cut the pump in 1/2.

Too stiff a bullet at less than 2600fps impact velocity. Softer or faster is better on deer. 120gr NBT may be what you want.

Textbook shooting and bullet performance.

Congrats, Saddlesore looks like some fine eating not lost by placement of your shot. I think I'll put that bullet on my list to try in my 6.5's
Well done. Mb

My experience with the deer at our camp in Kentucky is that blood trails are fickle. Most of my shots are just like yours: both lungs and heart. However, I seldom have much of a blood trail for the first 50 yards or so. It takes that long for the the blood to fill up the chest cavity to the height of the exit wound. The blood trail depends on other things as well:

How low on the chest is the exit wound? If you shoot from a raised stand the exit wound is lower and so the blood starts spilling out sooner
Is the animal running on a bias? On the flat, or downhill, I'll see less of a blood trail. On an uphill track, usually the blood trail is effusive and really short.

This time of year I see deer shot almost every day,, the so called exit wound 2 hole blood trail, sucks, DRT is the only way to go, Schitt happens, but DRT beats blood every time. Rio7

Gotta love "DRT" !

Boom. Walk over, tag buck.

Guy

Looks like it performed perfectly in my opinion



Bob. I shoot an 6.5 sportarized mauser. I bought it when they were $69 with shipping. I don't think it had ever been fired. Not a scratch on the rails,bolt, etc. Std C&C like a Sierra GK, it won't shoot very well if I go below 140 grs. With the AB' s they are one of the longest, lighter bullets and it seems to really match the twist rate seeing how well it shoots them. (They are actually 129gr)

6x Leupod fixed, Timney trigger, Bhueler safety, LaForge cocking conversion, Richards Micro fit stock.Original military barrel cut of and crowned at the first step in the barrel, I cut and welded the bolt to turn it down.

IMO, perfect deer and antelope round/rifle.

I used to shoot the 130 AB, 127 LRX, and 130 TSX in my 6.5x55 around 2800. I didn't get much blood trail either. The 130 Sierra HPBT or 140 Sierra BT does much better at the 6.5x55 speeds. I've only tried them on whitetails.

So you're fine with the performance you got. Great. Why the post then? This seems like typical 'fire trollery.

The pics you posted don't show the kind of cover where you're likely to learn much about the need for a heavy blood trail anyhow. It's neither nor and blissful ignorance. If you ever do have a need to learn, don't take my word for it. Check the SC DNR website for the study they did on cartridges and shot placement vs recovery.

Why do you say the Accubond isn't soft enough?

Quote "no blood trail at all, even where he fell. " - please look at the picture. If that deer bled enough to paste down the hair under the wound there was a blood trail. For absolute, certain sure, there was a blood trail. Saddlesore, you are a very experienced hunter. I'm pretty sure you know that you're doing! No personal aspersion on your skills, but you didn't, or couldn't see the blood trail. Congratulations on a successful hunt. But even though I'm not the best tracker in anyone's opinion, I'd advise that you reconsider your tracking skills. The blood was there. Perhaps conditions made it difficult to see. But that wound definitely leaked blood.

No troll ,just showing that two holes do not always equate to more blood as many on here profess. I am mostly an elk hunter and only kill a few deer every once in awhile when I draw an eastern plains deer tag for something to do. To me they are only long legged rats.I have shot deer with 6.5 , 140 gr GK.Not impressed . If I was really into shooting big deer I could shoot ones like this from my deck.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NYAHHlF.jpg?1[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/NYAHHlF.jpg?1[/img]

If my post disturbs you so much, you are welcome to scroll on by or even put me on ignore. Really, you opinion does not even move the needle off zero of my Give a Damn gage.

No really C&B , the only blood was under it.It was smeared because when I rolled it over ,I had to drag it a bit. The deer went about 20 yards, down a dirt bank (no grass, no blood ). Across a 2 ft wide stream and made it about 10 yards into the cotton woods in that little patch of grass. No blood at all and I did look. As others have posted they have witnessed similar scenarios. I figure the entrance/exit wounds were about 1/2 way up the body. There was a lot of volume for the blood to fill before it starts to leak out. I have had my share of nasty tracking jobs with elk. It has been my experience, at least with elk , that no blood for some times 50-75 yards is common.

I'm done here .Only thought some would be interested

I am interested, thanks for the thoughtful reply Saddlesore. I remain a fan of the "two holes = better tracking" school of thought, but I may have learned something.

I enjoyed your story and your thoughts.
Congrats on getting your deer.

Your rifle looks really nice. Wishing you many more great hunts with it.
Take care

+1

I have always been a fan of a good blood trail, but then up until this year I had a dog to do the trailing. No dog now, so I am rethinking my shot placement. Why, a good blood trail if you have a dog? Keep the dog sharp until you really need it, and I think it makes for better meat, but a lost deer makes no meat for the shooter. miles

It's not just rifles I've seen some good size holes through deer being hit with broadheads and sometimes don't find blood for 50-100 yds and thats with a 2" hole through them. I like Miles idea, can't beat a good dog for bad times.

Thanks, Saddlesore. Always enjoy your posts. Wish I had your rifle and you had a better one.

Dang. This was a worthwhile observation from an experienced hunter, worthy of discussion. Urbaneruralite, your comments are out of line.

I like blood on the ground. Lots of it. Two holes seem to help, but not always. A hit through the lungs is a quick killer. but unless large arteries are hit, it may not bleed much. Recovery is still usually easy. DRT sounds good, but the brain or spine is the only sure way I’ve found for that. Both shoulders? Maybe, but I want to eat them if possible. Usually one ends up fairly shot up anyway.

I shot a nice WT quartering away with the Ballistic Tip 150 from a 7x57. 25yd shot, so prob 2700 impact velocity. Almost no blood for the 30 yard death dash. Lots of blood inside and big arteries hit. Turned on that a flap of chest muscle blocked the exit wound. Things happen.

FWIW, the heaviest blood trail I’ve seen came from a doe my neighbor shot. 257 Roberts 117 Sierra. Shot was downhill and through the heart. The bullet exited and left a sprayed trail like I’d never seen. She still ran 50yds.

This was the last kill for my old friend. He’d been given instructions to call me if he shot one. I was afraid he wasn’t up to tracking, or caring for it himself. I arrived in 10 minutes to find he’d already found the deer. It would have been hard to miss.

I shot an 8pt Thursday out of a tall box stand overlooking a big bean field. He walked all way across the field at last light....stopped. He was like 80-90 yards quartering away facing me. I hit him down his neck just in front of his left shoulder....dropped right there never took a step. Saw him kick one time thru the scope. I shoot a Win. 70 in 308...Barnes TTSX 130 g. handload 3165 fps or so. When I got to him his head was laying in a pool of blood...no exit hole and small entry in lower neck. Guy dressing him out after aging him few days. He will find the bullet when he skins him out. I believe in this kind of shot when they are under 100 yards...always drop right there for me. Longer shot, I like to go up front leg and put it in heart/lungs and they never run very far and will pile up. If that bullet is placed right you don't need a blood trail, but it always helps for sure.

Especially on a mostly broadside shot with minimal amounts of animal for the bullet to pass through I absolutely want an exit wound on a deer or big game animal to insure complete destruction of the vital tissue and bone on both sides and because the usually larger and lower on the body exit wound would seem most likely to be the side that is going to leave the most blood. No doubt it’s never an exact science though and each case is an example of just one with different reactions from the critter and the trail they leave.

An exit wound doesn’t always result in a good blood trail but generally speaking it would see more likely for two holes with the second being the exit hole to result in more blood than a caliber size entrance wound only.

I’d be surprised if any bow hunter would say they don’t think an exit wound is desirable. There may be more kill inducing shock with a bullet but an exit wound provides a better chance of a blood trail if tracking is required.

My brother tmax264 shot a big fat mulie buck last Saturday in Unit 55. 35 Whelen 225 grain Accubond at about 35 yards. Caliber entry, between ribs across the top of the heart and through a rib on the exit side, just knicked the tricep on exit.

At the shot he bounced off out of sight in heavy timber. Shooter directed me to the exact spot deer was standing, I looked hard for blood and found nothing. We did a sweep and found him only 35 yards away. The only blood we found was in the last 5 yards. There was a skiff of snow present, so blood wasn't hard to spot.

We both were surprised there wasn't more blood trail.

Yes unfortunately “ theories “ don’t always
hold water.

I long ago quit depending (expecting) on a blood
trail. They’re not always there.


Jerry

Nice shooting!

If he had traveled 300 yards you would have appreciated the extra hole.

If it went 300 yards, I didn't do my job in the first place

My son recently shot a couple of bucks with a 6.5 CM and 130 grain Accubonds going about 2800 FPS and he got considerably larger exit holes than you did. The distance on one buck was about 100 yards and the other about 175. I'm not sure why the difference, but there can be a lot of variables when bullets hit game.

saddlesore;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope the day down in your part of the world is as bright and sunny as here and you're well.

Thanks for the thread and field observations, it's interesting how little that buck bled for sure.

Also interesting to me is the cartridge and bullet used, as my usual hunting partner and eldest daughter shoots a 96 Swede - 130gr TSX at 2650fps from it's 20" barrel and I've been using a 98 with a 96 Swede barrel - mine 21" and this year was the first time trying a 120gr GMX at 2900fps more or less.

The mulie I hit was moving at a fast walk at perhaps 200yds crossing right to left. I aimed for the off shoulder blade, but as it turned out didn't get that as I didn't lead quite enough. At the shot it reacted to the hit, ran about 50 yards uphill stopped, took 2 or 3 shaky steps back down the mountain and piled up. Interestingly it didn't leave much of a blood trail either, but honestly I saw it piled up so while I did trail it up to see what had happened, I admit to not paying as close attention as I might have.

There was a fair bit of a puddle where it landed in my case. When I gutted it, there was a hole in the lungs about the size of a softball and the exit was 3/4".

When I skinned it back at home I saw it was one of those rare shots where no bones at all were hit, so I was happy to see that the bullet had still opened up fine despite just hitting skin, flesh and lungs.

Anyways sir, that's my story from a somewhat similar sized buck and a sort of similar situation this fall.

Thanks again and all the best to you as we head into winter.

Dwayne

All's well here Dwayne .Beautiful blue bird day. 70 degrees and I am at 7600 ft elevation.Same, all the best to you this winter

Very similar reaction from this little buck.Missed a rib going in and clipped one going out. Lungs were mush, heart cut almost in two. I litterly poured everything out of the chest cavity. Only blood outside was pooled under the body where it fell

It was a very slight angling shot Deer was going from left to right. I tucked the bullet behind the near shoulder and it barely clipped the front of the off shoulder.

When Accubonds first came out they were fairly soft/explosive and damaged a lot of meat. Subsequent years Nosler refined it,but catching bone will still up set them pretty good

saddlesore;
Thanks for the reply and further info sir, I appreciate both.

For sure in my buck as well there was a whole lot of blood to pour out of it before I loaded it onto the dead sled and lashed it down.

Then when I got it back to the pickup - someday I've got to start shooting them closer to that thing saddlesore - anyways more blood came out of it as I dragged the sled up the ramp loading it into the truck box.

I think maybe that lack of hitting any bones might be a mitigating factor? That's a guess for sure, but the last couple of mulie bucks I hit with a similar load though they were 120gr TTSX, the bucks dropped via high shoulder shots.

This youngster was really stinky too by the way, which is a bit early for here, but he was fragrant and not in a nice way.

Luckily we've sampled him and he's proven to be a wonderful dinner guest, so all is well that ends I suppose.

Thanks again and all the best once more.

Dwayne

one of the things I have learned over the years is that even with a "blood trail" most folks have no clue what they are doing when trailing a deer. if they stop seeing blood they give up. they dont look for slight drag marks in leaves, they only look for blood on the ground, not body high on weeds etc.

a friend of mine hit a deer a few years back. big puddles of blood ritgh off the bat, then petered out to nothing. his response was "that deer ain't hit hard enough to die"

i went back to the last spot of blood, it was rought spattered over 6-8 inches, I started looking around and 10 feet or so from that spot I found blood on sapling branches, then I started noticing a pattern in the deers tracks and finally told my friend that he had broken the deers front right leg above the knee and it was only making big spots of blood on the ground when it stood still. a half mile later after trailing the deer by his tracks and blood high in the grass and brush, flanking the down hill side of a ridge we caught the deer in his bed, my buddy shot the buck and sure enough his right front leg was broken above the knee.. i think he bedded down on that ridge because he was having trouble walking down the steep hill. by only looking for blood my buddy almost lost that deer

A buddy and I have used accubonds a decent amount in the past for deer and most of the time we have also had next to no blood trails. We both started using ballistic tips more the past few years and it seems that they always still get an exit, and the blood trails are typically pretty massive.

I kind of enjoy tracking a deer, not that I'm ever disappointed with a DRT. I do think that a lot of guys give up too early on a wounded deer. In my experience if a deer quits bleeding that has been, it is probably down within a short distance. Blood is what we look for, but I've found them using scuffed up leaves, even hair my bullet had cut on one that I'd been tracking. I'd hit one too far back and that unmistakable broken gut smell hung in the air where he had run. If they are bleeding even a little, you can run them out of blood with good tracking snow even with a marginal hit, but it takes a while. I've switched to "softer" non-premium bullets for deer hunting. Premium bullets were not opening fast enough in my experience and resulted in longer tracking jobs and harder to find deer.

I have always wondered why the mantra is always " wait and let em stiffen up" what do hospitals do to recoup people? they let them rest. ive alwasy been a fan of keep them pumping blood. eventually they are going to run out of blood

In my experience, the “let them lay awhile” means they conk out after they make their first lengthy stop, post-run. If you press them and jump them again, they may die 800 yards away instead of 80. Same timeframe, differing distances.

sound theory on a good hit, but what about a marginal hit. an anuimal pumping blood under the rush of adrenaline and exertion will bleed out much faster, or lose enough blood pressure that he shuts down uch sooner than one that holes up and lets that blood congeal andclot the wound

I shot a healthy young whitetail Saturday afternoon. 130gr Berger with an impact velocity of 2235 fps. The deer flipped over and laid quietly at the shot, never kicked or moved. as I walked up to it there was not a trace of blood and only some ruffed hair where the bullet hit. While field dressing i noted the lungs heavily damaged and both shoulders broke with a lot of clotted blood inside. Found a 35 gr fragment of bullet on the offside shoulder just under the skin. Not at all what the " need two hole crowd" would like to see but the deer never budged after the shot.......

Deer where I go in the big woods are just not that abundant and I never want to waste one. Years back second week of our season I was walking around an evergreen swamp and found a deer bed with blood in it and a decent size track leaving it. Early in the day and good snow, so I took the track. A long ways along the trail I found a rounded bone fragment that said to me leg wound and a front one I figured for as good as he was moving. About four that afternoon I got a glimpse of that buck and took a quick shot. He crossed another logging road and I left the track until the next morning. A buddy and I jumped him up that morning and one of us just grazed him over the back. He tried to mess us up by running over other deer tracks, but he was dropping that dark back hair, but no more blood. I caught up with him in more evergreens and finished things. He was almost out of blood and very clean inside. You can get a leg hit deer if you stay on them. I got another one once with my worst bow shot ever that I'd hit above the back hoof. We had good snow and every time it put it's foot down was a spot of blood and I said to myself that I'm going to run that one out of blood, but it sure took a while and another arrow.

I can not see any disadvantage in waiting a while unless rain has started or is predicted to fall soon. If that is the case, I'm on it pretty quickly.

I have never had a 129g Hornady Sp let me down on deer and hogs...heck of a bullet. I expect for lung shots to deer run, and I shoot them a tad further back than most people, taking out the diaphragm, heart, and lungs, arteries.

Exactly!

I'm just thinking that these posts relating the lack of blood are probably what would be called in medical terms, a sucking chest wound or pneumothorax. Your animal dies because it can no longer pull a vacuum to expand it's lungs with it's diaphram. Any wound is going to bleed somewhere, but aside from the blood being blown out by the initial bullet strike, with a hole in the chest cavity it is probably creating a negative sucking pressure not positive pressure that would spray more blood on the ground. I've moved my poi from 1/2 up to 1/3 up to get more of a leaking blood trail sooner if they run.

Good point.

Over the decades I have seen too many exceptions to every "rule" about blood trails to believe in any of them firmly.

I don't know how many deer I've shot w/my 7x57Ackley Improved but it's over 40 w/the 140gr Ballistic Tip running 3050fps. Same result as Saddlesore and none of the deer ever ran out of sight. Just like JG said... textbook. powdr

^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^

The people I've helped to find deer didn't try hard
enough to find a blood trail or any other clues,
and they dang sure won't get down on their hands
and knees to look for sign. Most feel that if it
didn't fly over backwards or " mulekick" then they
must have missed and 9 out of 10 it'll be laying
just yards away under a clump of bushes or cactus
or something. I guess I've been lucky and found
all mine that didn't fall on the spot. Bowhunting
taught me A LOT about finding deer

This cow as shot with a ML. Good blood trail for may be 30yards and then nothing and I looked for an hour. I sat down and ate lunch and gave it another try.Turns out, she feel to the right, over a log, and buried herself in the brush from fallen pine tree limbs.This photo was after I cleared some brush.



This was after my buddy and I spent an hour clearing the brush and dragged her 10 feet.She had been dead about 3 hours by then



Here was a tough one.This cow went thru some 4-5 ft tall weeds. Blood was only on the weeds about 3 ft up.Then she went across the dam of a beaver pond and fell in.Only her head and a short piece of neck was viable.I had to go get the mules,used two lead ropes fastened to a saw buck to pull her out.I had to take my boots and pants off and waded in to put the rope around her neck and he mule had a tough time pulling her up and over the damn.She probably had 100 pounds of mud on her that I scraped off before taking this photo.

I'm sure it's been said, a lot of it has to do with where on the body the hole are, if high in & out you won't usually get much of a blood trail.
Because the body cavity fills up. If you have an exit low on a deer blood will usually be found in good supply.
From a Broadhead shooting from a treestand you usually get a good blood trail a blind child of 4 could follow because of the angle/
The more years I hunt the more I like a softer lighter bullet and I try for ribcage shot, they go down so fast it's like lighting struck em. But you don't want to hit shoulder bone if yer bullet is varmint soft. But I don't want him crossing the road or going into the swamp either.

I had a cow drop and flop around til it made its way into a creek. It is a pain when you got go for a swim to retrieve game........ mud is even worse.

Haven 't shot as many animals as some here with 6.5 cartridges but have found the 140 npt in the 264 to be good and the 129 grain Hornady SP to be excellent in the swede. Sometimes you don't get much blood trail as others have mentioned but that's exactly why shot placement trumps all other factors
Just my 2 cts worth
Mb