In the field:
4.0 MOA Off Hand.
2.0 MOA Sitting/Sling.
1.5 MOA Prone/Sling.

This is just embarrassing...






GR

Had viral encephalitis as a teenager. One of the delightful lifelong side effects is hands shakier than a sapling in a hurricane. Essential tremors is what they call it, and it progressively worsens with age. Shaving is fun 😏

My offhand shooting ability is somewhere to the tune of 10MOA these days. Off a bipod... closer to 2. I'll take the bipod or a set of sticks all day long over flinging bullets offhand and maybe hitting a barn from the inside if I'm lucky.

What's embarrassing?

A rifleman using what he has to get a good rest is embarrassing?


Since you’re completely clueless, the shooter pictured is doing it right. 👍🏼

Since 2012, I ‘never’ go without my
Stoney Point Shooting Sticks.
Today they’re Primos.

I’ve tried to show them in the pix with
deer I’ve killed.

I ain’t ashamed
I ain’t skeered

Jerry

GR,
You wouldn't happen to be Craig Boddington would you? Look just like CB. I always enjoyed reading Crag's articles.

Speaking for myself, I'd be pretty happy with your stated numbers. Seen a LOT worse running NRA Sporting Rifle High Power for 10 seasons. The 9 ring of the SR-1 is a tad over 6 moa....you'd be amazed at the number of bench wizards who can't hold 8 rds in the black offhand.

Necessary accommodation, not w/standing.


If it gets you in the field, good for you.




GR

Nope, and Boddington is a good writer and sportsman.

... and also gettin' long in the tooth as well.

I understand that.

Just be nice if he qualified the use of that marksmanship foolishness, instead of glorifying it.




GR

If I shoot more than ten rounds a year off a bench... I'm tuning a scope with a problem.


Folks cheat themselves out of becoming competent rifleman.

Image over substance.

Nothin' new, just a little pathetic is all.

Will take a 2-4 MOA group in the field, over a sub-MOA group off a concrete bench any day.




GR

While I don't have a good excuse like ZCM82, I can truthfully say my last unsupported shot on a deer was maybe 18 years ago. You can call it laziness, but I just lost my taste for goat rodeos. Close to half of my shots have been off a bag. I keep them in all my ground blinds. My tower blind and my treestands all have shooting rails covered in pipe insulation.

I took my buck last November with a shot off the back of my ladder stand. I braced my Savage 99 on the tree and nailed the deer at 80 yards.

I still have plenty of offhand opportunities during Squirrel and Turkey Seasons. For deer, I have a little over 2 weeks to fill the freezer and I ain't dickin' around.

When someone is offended about how others go about business, it's generally a given their personal album of field/trophy photos to be wafer-thin.

A sportsman takes advantage of everything available to make a clean, killing shot. The challenge is getting into position to make that shot. Wear a cowbell if you want to make it difficult.

On inanimate targets, do what you will, shoot standing on your head if it makes you all tingly.

The stuff some people find to complain about never ceases to amaze. I’ve done a bit of killing so here’s some perspective: it’s useful to be able to shoot quickly and accurately from any position, supported or unsupported. The trickiest in my experience is to get a good supported position such as in the OP’s gripe pics. Having the skills and experience to quickly get steady enough can make the difference between success or failure.

CHEATER

Don't count animals I hit with my truck, either.

Marksmanship... is.




GR

More than a bit of truth. Kinda dig how his "rebuttal" did not contain any pics...

Do you take pictures at the meat counter of the grocery store?

We barbecue and make sausage.


And killin' an animal that ain't shooting back at you, with a high-power rifle on a tripod? Doesn't even merit a boy-scout badge.


Want to impress me?

Kill a bear, panther, alligator, or big feral hog with a knife.

... or learn to hunt and shoot.




GR

Is that how you do it?

Learning to hunt and shoot means you know when to use a solid rest.
Panther with a knife, give me a break.

I don't hunt to impress anyone.

And now, especially the OP.

Yup, I think we can file him under Forget……

When I shot my last moose in Maine, the bull was standing in the middle of a clearcut at about 150yds. My guide asked, "can you hit him from here with that levergun". I said, " probably, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if I could lean against that tiny birch tree", which wasn't too far away. When I'm afield, I'll use whatever is available to promote good shot placement.

At 79 years old next month,the only off hand shooting at a deer or elk would be if they are less than 15 yards. In my early years while shooting in competition I felt confident of shooting at a running deer and doing so successfully. Now I always carry a bipod and use it, and don't even shoot at an animal if they are moving.

This is the internet, so anyone can say anything, and prove nothing.

Had the pleasure of hunting with Craig last Dec. in Kansas, also saw some of the vast array of thophies he`d taken. Impressive.

Didn`t know where the OP got that info, or if the accuracy suggestions come at 1, 2, or 300 yrds, but holding 4 MOA at 100, that`s 4 inches, in any condition is excellent. I can say that with a bit of confidence after shooting many, many rounds of off hand at 200 yrds to obtain my High Master classification in NRA H.P. That ofcourse would also include rapid sitting, and prone. Shooting at game, I will always pick supported over un-supported.

Therefore I would tell the OP to go pee up a rope.

But not bringing it with you... and having to rely on it all the time.

... like a crutch.





Necessary Accommodations not withstanding.





GR

Excellent post!

I'll take every legal aid I can get to insure a clean kill. Powder burns on the hide are good, and I'll use a rest or braced position then too if I can get it.


I am likely not a good shot, but I try to be a careful one.

Showing off when killing just because you can is foolish and childish. So is un-necessarily pushing your equipment and skills to the limit. I'm all grown up now..... Well, sometimes.

A good stalk or game plan is far more satisfying to me than a whiz-bang shot.

That said, I've killed just one of my 20 something moose off a rest. And he was running at about 150 yards. The rest were all off-hand, within 100 yards or so, some running. Several were with sling-wraps. Caribou? I can think of only 3 of over 75 killed - pushing 100 I think. I kinda lost count lately. Those 3 were running at about 80 yards. Took all 5 rounds in the gun tho.... .

Posted elsewhere recently, I used this fanny pack on rock on rock last fall with success.



My wife took her caribou using the box on the back of an ATV at 200, at this "blind".

My son took his from a running herd at about the same range at a momentarily stopped animal on the ridge above my kill, several days later , using the frame of his ATV for a rest. No time to range. Perhaps to the OP, these too were somehow shameful.

I've used rocks, trees, walking sticks, snow machine handle bars, seats, and windscreens, and ATV seat or framework for rest. Once, from an uncomfortable prone position, I stacked 3 small flat rocks up to make it more comfortable, put my cap on top for padding , and killed a nice bull caribou at nearly 400 paced (pre-rangefinder days) yards with a 17 inch barreled 30-06.

Hell, once I even used a 3-legged Bog-pod at exactly 200 ranged yards with a rifle that puts 3 into an inch at 300 yards.

Killing is serious work.

Sue me...

I think you covered things pretty well. Great pics. What a wonderful place to be!

The first deer I ever shot was an offhand goat rodeo... never again. I got it, but it was really, really ugly. I've learned my limitations, and aside from off a bench where I have all the time in the world, would consider myself a fairly poor shot overall. There's a lot of years I don't tag a deer because I'd rather pass on a shot than take a bad one, and there isn't an overabundance of deer where I hunt.

Like you, I have rails all around to shoot off of from my stands, and I try to keep my shots inside 100 yards or so. Maybe 150 if it's dead calm and the quarry is just standing like a statue to where I have a lot of time to shoot.

About the only offhand shooting I do is at rabbits at very short range since they're about as tough as pudding and basically any hit anchors them, or birds with a shotgun. I still carry shooting sticks or a monopod for rabbit hunting, and use them if I have time.

"Why not just...." hunt how, when, and where you want to and I'll do the same.

I'd vote YES on that!

Nitpicking how others do it is silly.

And when it's done with condescension, obnoxious.

Hunting/Shooting without Marksmanship Skills - Pride.



8>)




GR

Quite the photo album you've got there.

It doesn't appear to see anything wrong with it...

Do you?




GR

Yes. So did FINA. Old news.

G seems to know a lot about unfounded pride. Into the "do not respond" Troll Pool he goes. Bye.

Dramatic.

Marksmanship's a skill.

If you can't shoot?

Stay off the podium.







GR

Uh oh, quoting Jeff Cooper.....it's getting deep now....







Can I take a wild guess here......boomer?

I'm a Boomer. I have marksmanship skills.

But I'll not fail to take advantage of a rest if possible.

It's kinda like I can navigate using map and compass....but I'd rather use a GPS.

It was just a hunch using context clues. Stubborn, self righteous, Jeff Cooper quotes, needlessly braggadocious.....screams one obvious thing.................(boomie)

What’s missing is your feelings on shooting distances for hunting.

🦫

I don't like bipods because they add weight and are homely. I like shooting with a sling and am not averse to leaning against whatever is there. I don't like extreme range shots on game but do like long range target sports. I like the idea of using a walking stick as a support for offhand shots where there is no other option.
To me, the hunter who uses a bipod or any other support and makes good shots on game, is acting responsibly. He knows what he needs to do to make the shot. This is much more responsible than making a poor shot offhand. Using the best technique and the right equipment shows respect for the game. This is negated if one tries to shoot beyond the range where a good hit is reasonably certain (I consider "reasonably certain" to be in the 90% plus region). GD

I love that stuff.

It’s akin to telling us how we should park our trucks or wipe our ass.

I was taught from formal and informal marksmanship training, to always get as stable as possible and to use every tool available to make that happen. Having an available rest and not using it, or going on a hunt where long shots are possible or the rule, and not taking the proper tools to ensure a humane kill can be made, is not only irresponsible, it's almost as stupid as making trolling posts about others peoples shooting ....

You're obviously not a boomer so that blows your theory.

Very well said.

I just felt we were all being a smidge cheated on his rant.

😬🦫

Polesmoker posting about "blowing"......color me shocked...lol





Cool your jets, just a joke. Old folks around don't take too well to jokes.

the word you're looking for is BOOMTARD !

not because of age, but because of the GUNDUMMY he's afflicted with .... big game hunting is not a warzone, to even compare the two is evidence of retardation, most likely due to a severe case of E.D.

a hunters responsibility & primary role is killing an animal as quickly as possible with the first shot, cold bore .. if that means using a fixed or random rest for controlled, fatigue free aiming, for firing accurately with confidence, then the hunter is doing his part in "marksmanship"

and that applies to all hunters, regardless of range, skill, experience, firearm/cartridge & equipment used

LOL, sounds like you're the one who can't take a joke, junior.

It's cultural.

Marksmanship - has become a capacity ignored - because, like most skills, it runs counter to Marketing.

It only requires personal development.

And it's unconscionable that the Industry, and its periodicals, have sold out and all but abandoned it.


Image over substance.


So it's not "nitpickin'"... it's spotlighting.




GR

What's cultural? You weren't taught or never learned to mind your business?

Only a foolish Fudd would complain about people using proper techniques to improve accuracy in field conditions.

I'll shoot off trekking poles, tripod, or backpack. Whatever gives me a stable platform to shoot. No reason for ego or machismo to screw up a shot.

Same…. It’s good to get the whole enchilada instead of piece meal.

Shooters have been improvising added support long before any of us picked up a rifle.

Well said MM.

Great picture as well. Those injuns probably were cheating though and worried about how the Campfire would judge them

More like spotting.

As in, you're spotting again, time to change that tampon.

It's not the Indian or the arrow, it's the Sharps. I like that image.

Right tool for the job at hand.
And, a little bit of wisdom tossed in.

It is the responsibility of every hunter, to recognize and accept whatever restrictions each of us may have.
Learn to work within the parameters of those restrictions and overcome what disabilities that can be negated.

If a uni-/bi-/tripod helps a hunter achieve clean kills, then sobeit!

I'm old.
I'm fat.
I'm tired.
I'm ugly.
I'm crippled.

I shoot an AR because my shoulder implant doesn't like recoil.
I sit in a box blind because I'm too crippled to walk and still hunt.
I I also sit in that box blind because I'm too crippled to climb trees and too smart to sit on a tree limb in foul weather.
My box blind has a shooting bench built in and sand bags to hold my rifle still.
I also hunt over a feeder. Without a feeder and a food plot, deer wouldn't even look at my hunting area.

I simply do what I have to do to get deer on front of my blind so that I may select the deer I want, not just what happens to come by.

Well,if you ever get too old to strum that Martin and want to sell it, let me know

My wife told me, when it comes to gunfights (which I'll extrapolate here to one way usage) "Always cheat, always win."

Scopes are cheating over iron sights.
Breech loaders are cheating over ML.
Compound bows are cheating over recurve.
Bows are cheating over spears.
Atlati is cheating over hand thrown
Spears are cheating over rocks

All due to incompetents not getting the job done with the tool at hand as well as some "expert".

Damned cheaters!

Which branch of the military were you in??

Did you qualify as an above average shooter during basic training ??

Relativism.

If one needs crutches?

... then one is handicapped.

Not too complicated.




GR

It's too bad they don't make crutches for the brain, you could use a pair.

Or better yet, a wheelchair.

You are obviously upset.


Field Position Marksmanship, and the proper use of a sling.

The... horror.




GR

LOL, I'm not the one who's "upset" and I'm not the one telling people "how it should be done" ace, that would be you. Your thread title is hysterical and I don't mean funny.

I don't give a fugg how you choose to shoot.

Marksmanship... is.

And using crutches isn't.

That's all.


Be nice if the industry still supported it... instead of the consumer Special Olympics.




GR

Sell a sling everybody will buy instead of a tripod, bipod, or whatever.

The problem is that those devices do contribute to a humane death instead of a possible long, drawn out, and painful death due to gutshot. If they help with that, I'm all for it.

Marksmanship and the sense to use proper tools prevent lost game. How you go about it is up to you.

Shooting on a square range with a loop-sling and irons is a discipline that tests marksmanship ability in a very controlled and repeatable way. Distances are known, the terrain is flat, there are no intermediate obstacles or vegetation, the firing line is groomed, range flags indicate wind speed and direction. The target is a large black bullseye on a larger white paper that is easy to see, and great contrast.

It makes sense when you consider it was a spinoff from military rifle training where people with little to no firearm experience needed to be trained quickly, efficiently, and to a measurable standard.

It's actually kind of silly to suggest that type of shooting is 'all you need' when hunting in all kinds of variable terrain, vegetation, and unknown distances, poor light, targets that blend into the terrain. and on and on.

There's a reason even the military snipers have evolved in their gear to all the modern kit. It enables delivering more accurate fire at longer distances, under field conditions.

That would explain the OP's fascination with it.

That or simply tryng to get a rise out of people.

The treble hook was pretty effective.

You're probably right. How pathetic is that?

So I’m confused. Is Garand complaining about Boddington using shooting aids and saying that because he’s military he’s weak and military guys should be the cream of the crop? In my experience as a law enforcement firearms I stricter over the last fourteen years, it’s been my experience that most LEO’s and that includes former military guys, can’t shoot for schidt. And I’ll tell you another thing, I’m really not too concerned when I go on a call to some scumbag with a gun cause they can’t hit the broadside of a barn. The guys I worry about are the dudes you get called on that have a wall full of antlers totin’ an ‘06..

You made an incongruous shift in you logic, from hunter to sniper.

Yes, KD/Field Position Marksmanship builds skills quickly.

But those skills, in turn, are readily applicable to the hunting fields as well.

The ability to build solid shooting positions and natural points of aim, shoot from standing/kneeling/sitting with a properly adjusted hasty sling, or quickly snap into a sitting or prone position with a cuff sling.


Snipers - start at Six-hundred yards.

Most hunting is done at less than Three.


Nothing wrong w/ using natural support if it's handy.

But bringing crutches, to replace shooting skills, is another thing.




GR

Garandimal

Do you have a sniping background?

Can you tell me where you got the information that "Snipers start at six-hundred yards."?

Rifleman - are trained to < 4 MOA/500 yards.


< 3 MOA is not all the difficult with reasonable shooting skills.




GR

It's pretty much congruous in the context of hunters and snipers using gear that enables precise shot placement under varying field conditions.

That dodged both questions I asked.

I will tell you as someone who has a professional background and considerable operational experience in the middle east, that your statement "Snipers - start at Six-hundred yards." for which you give no citation, is pure nonsense.

Professional precision rifle shooters are just as likely to take a shot at 75 yards, 100 yards or 300 yards in a city or small congested area as they are to take one past 600 yards. In fact today considerable amount of time is spent conducting MOUT training (military operations on urban terrain) since we are not fighting world war two style battles and we don't really do Carlos Hathcock style missions for the most part anymore.

Extensive training is often done in closer range very small target, small window of opportunity, type shooting, in very demanding environments.

Yes, snipers are trained to shoot at extended distances. But to say that for snipers the ranges start at 600 yards, that is simply not true.

To give you a real world example or two.

This picture was taken from an overwatch position. There are Iraqi police and soldiers that can never be trusted as to if/when they are going to turn on you/the person you are assigned to protect. The Iraqis have belt fed MGs in this pic. This was a High Threat Protection Detail for diplomats and dignitaries.



The shots required for guys on overwatch are going to be very close and very difficult once you get 6-8 more cars in that courtyard and 20 more people, and it is wall to wall people moving in different directions.

Similar story here:




In this situation there was both a sniper threat, regualr insurgent attack threat and as usual a bomb threat. The shots engagement distances were expected to be anywhere from point blank to over 1K yards.



The building on the left side of the photo was a known "bad guy" location and we expected to receive fire from it, if we received fire from extended ranges.



As you can see, the today's professional shooter does not begin his job at 600 yards.

Certainly not still hunting or stalking at typical hunting ranges.


And a sniper starts out as an Expert qualified Marksman.

Why is that?


If one needs crutches for typical hunting ranges?

... one is handicapped.

Simple as that.




GR

"Expert qualified Marksman".

Which is it? There are four tiers of proficiency, Marksman being second, above Unqualified. Expert is the highest level.

Can't be both.

Those "crutches" you are deriding can often be field expediant and help insure a good shot. In the hunting field, they can help avoid gutshooting or completely missing, which is doubly sad if it is ego-driven. One has a responsibility to make a humane shot. To let pride or ego dictate otherwise shows a narrowmindedness that is not something I'd admire.

Garandimal,

You could very well be the 2022 version of Savage_99 that used to post here – pretty much a pontificating, sanctimonious prick that didn't know what he didn't know.

Another gem:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16034925/1

REDUX ! !

Define "typical hunting ranges." But set that aside for a minute and answer this:

If you had a 250 yard shot at a buck or a bull and a rock solid rest over a rock or a log, would you use the rest?

GR is mentally frozen in his chosen shooting genre. There's nothing wrong with that, but there is no reasoning with him.

After spending 25+ years active duty, I might have shot the M16A1/A2 for qual out to 500 meters or yards with irons, loop slings, M193 or M855 ammo. I might have done that a time or two. 16th Award Rifle Expert, highest score 246/250.

Anyhoo, just to give some background. Now, by 'cheating', with bipods, optics, beanbag, LRF, I'm able to make shots at MUCH further distances, on much smaller targets.


There's a reason the scoring rings are smaller with modern gear.

.

WTF is this thread even about?

Guess the OP uses a flinlock ML?

Sound like a Sharpmans thread. 😂🤣😂🤣

If you read through the thread, you will see that Natural Support is addressed.

It's part of being a hunter.

So is basic Marksmanship.


Bringing crutches with you into the field?

... is Special Olympics.




GR

A competent shooter may not need "crutches", but a wise and competent shooter builds the most stable position as is practicable.

LOL, why does the name Charles Emerson Winchester III pop into my head every time I read one of your posts?

I killed a piebald doe at 270 yards last season. It was the longest shot I've taken at a deer in over 20 years. I sat down and rested my rifle along side a small tree. It was also the the first time I'd used a rest to kill a deer in over 20 years. The other five deer I killed last season were all inside 65 yards and all taken off hand as is usual for me. I practice my off hand shooting regularly all year because that's the way I kill most of my deer and I'm usually close enough that I have no need to use a rest.

Probably because you spend more time watchin' television than you do working on Marksmanship.

... hence your reliance on, and visceral defense of, crutches.


Everyone deserves a trophy, right?

Yours just isn't for marksmanship or hunting skills.




GR

Nah, that's not it, I haven't seen MASH in years.

Probably because Charles Emerson Winchester III was almost as good at bloviation as you are.

You put the blow in bloviation.

Practice snapping-in/dry-firing for ~ 30 min. every wknd.


At the range - always shoot standing or on a mat, unless checkin' a scope.

Rifles are ~ 50/50 aperture/scope sighted.


Have shooting stands w/ round AR500 targets, 5" over 8".

Aperture sighted Rifles - shoot at 200 yds., which equates to 2.66 MOA over 4.0 MOA.

Scope sighted Rifles - shoot at 250 yds., which equates to 2.0 MOA over 3.2 MOA.

8" - Rapid-fire Standing/Kneeling/Sitting w/ hasty sling.
5" - Slow-fire Sitting/Prone w/ cuff sling.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

Garand, given your purist views on marksmanship, how do you feel about the specialized artificial support accoutrements seen here, especially the heavy strapped shooting coat, glove, eye patches, and so on?

And the Mouse gun.

Don't get me started...

Table 1/KD Course of Fire has been gutted, and the pursuit of ever-smaller groups is a mental disorder, like Firearms Collecting v. Acquisition.


Good Field marksmanship is ~ 2.5-3 MOA, if you can hit from field positions quickly.


Shoot how you run in the field.

Me? That's BDU's/Boots, Rifle w/ a 1-1/4" web sling, and a lightly loaded assault pack.


While not outstanding, this is at least honest marksmanship.





GR

60 yards and in w/ a 10lb rifle resulting in 2 misses on an IPSC sized target, pretty impressive "marksmanship".


mike r

Dude, it's all about the technique, not the result.

Said it was honest... not outstanding.


Believe he starts at 100.

One miss.

And the shots on paper were from 60 yards, w/ no misses.


Have an adult watch it with you next time.


Let bench-monkeys shoot my M1 rifle at the range all the time, and they do much worse just standin' still.


Marksmanship is a skill.




GR

Honest marksmanship..

In other words,

Its only real shooting if it is done your way. The way you like it. The way you have fantasized shooting enemy combatants in your role playing, with your BDUs, web sling and lightly loaded assault pack.

It did not go unnoticed that you intentionally did not respond to the questions about how you know "sniping begins at 600 yards" and ignore being schooled on information to the contrary.

The term is LARPing. Running around playing dress up and pretending you are Colonel Cooper. Pretending it's 1935 and you are only going to ever be engaged in a phenomenally narrowly pre-determined set of activities such as scouting enemy soldiers and taking notes, which is pure fantasy BS, as compared to what actually happens in the real world.

Carry on

Actually, prefer cotton ripstop BDU's because I hunt and shoot mainly in the South-East or South-West, and a lot of that is in swamps, piney woods, or desert.

BDU's - are not only inexpensive, durable, roomy, light weight, and fast drying, they are also mosquito-proof.

Assault Packs - make excellent hunting packs as well. They are milSpec quality nylon and $35.

Web Slings - fit the M1 rifle. And, w/ detachable swivels, are just as useful on every other rifle to a marksman.


So don't bother writing me into YOUR fantasies, as they are yours and yours lone, to make you feel better.


Marksmanship is a skill.

Most shooters have none.

Watch how they shoot away from the bench and without crutches.




GR

No picture of the shooting sticks I used, but this mule deer was shot cross canyon at 228 yards.

BDUs are mosquito proof. Abandon credibility all who buy into that fantasy. LMAO



mike r

Crutches are useful.


Prefer a hasty sling for rabbits, ducks, hogs, and deer.




GR

Well then, show us some pictures of the rabbits, ducks, hogs and deer you have killed.

Some "hasty sling" pics.

A few more "hasty sling" pics.

A few more with the "hasty sling."

Too bad you need that sling as a crutch. A true marksman hits what he's aiming at using nothing but his body for support.

Marksmanship is a skill.

That it is.

It's already on the rifle... we use them to carry it in the field.

Multi-tool.

Although some hunting, like rabbits or hogs in the thickets, is easier without it.

8>)




GR

Outstanding!




GR

Damn, isn't that the truth.

Damn, isn't that the truth.

Hunting Jack Rabbits w/ your CF hunting rifle is great practice for hogs and running deer.

We also put cardboard centers into old motorcycle tires and roll them down the canyons.


Marksmanship is a skill.




GR

[quote


Prefer a hasty sling for rabbits, ducks, hogs, and deer.




GR[/quote]

What kind of Super Fudd, Gunny sergeant wannabe uses a sling on a shotgun for ducks???
Marksmanship is a skill and apparently so is being a dumb [bleep] and you are world class.

We use .22 LR in the woods.

And you should calm down, little one.

... Adult Behavior - is also a skill.




GR

We use .22 LR in the woods.

And you should calm down, little one.

... Adult Behavior - is also a skill.




GR[/quote]
Sure thing GI Ho. Ducks with a 22. Whoever else you’re referring to as “we” is a big a dumb phouck as you are. I’m betting your imaginary platoon or gay band of brothers. As you were, captain douche nozzle.

garandimal,

Modesty and the real world have been chasing you but you've proven to be far too fleet of foot.

dude sounds like schitload of Stolen Valor, some numbnuts playing far too much Call of Duty video games, playing dress up like the Comicon morons & now thinks he's some sort of elite operator ... except the Comicons don't think they're real superheroes

meh ....

....

Still waiting on those pictures of you (Garandimal) and the critters you killed while using the "hasty sling."

It's been almost two days now.

No shame here.

I'll even go as far as to strap it down.

No shame what-so-ever in using rests. 👍

Don’t think I’m sorry to have skipped large parts of the thread but when I teach young hunters my strong recommendation is to practice offhand & do your very best not to ever shoot at an animal that way.

I didn’t have a choice last year on a cow elk after about 60 yards of uphill sprint with taller grass & brush between us about 90 yards. To my great surprise she went tits up done in an instant.

I’m usually good to a little over 200 off a knee, out to 700+ sitting on my butt using my pack as a rest sighting in and somewhere in between other methods depending on conditions. Almost Always carry a stick but don’t really like to use it if another rest is available.

A few years ago trained a gifted woman archery hunter to get ready for a TV hunting show. She is a natural markswoman so easy to do & she did great shooting against women who grew up with rifles. But where she beat them all was a hike/run with targets where the other gals shot off hand. I told her drop to a knee if it’s not against the rules. She killed an Aoudad & Oryx 1 shot kills it was rewarding to see how skilled a shooter she had become in a short time. The charging Cape buffalo target was fun & she handled a light 375H&H like a seasoned pro practicing & a 375 Ruger in the show competition.

My hunting partner hits deer vitals targets offhand at 300 yarded practicing. He missed an elk at 120 yards the last time he shot that way - adrenaline & heavy breathing in the mountains make those difficult for anyone.

Using a bipod, tripod, tree, rock, pack or whatever is the best most solid rest that you can is the most ethical choice in hunting.

Lots of folks carry a tripod, pack, and trekking pole for reasons other than shooting, too. Can’t fault them for using a multi-tool to build stability, as you do with the sling.

You shoot ducks with a .22LR? I am assuming this is in the SE United States?

If you wanna become a good off-hand field shot, shoot lots, and lots, of skeet.

Before you know it, you'll naturally shoulder, point, and swing your rifle on running deer too.

This thread has been illuminating.

🦫

Turkeys, too.




GR

Basic Marksmanship Skills.


RiflemansChallenge_v201309.2.pdf (Target)


Simple as this.

Now, do that from Standing, Sitting, and Prone.




GR

Thank you for your well written and informative post.

Still waiting.

Yeah, if you use a shotgun to shoot 'em off the water you risk damaging the decoys.

Just a couple pics of mule deer in their natural surroundings in this part of the country.

The deer are practically invisible to the naked eye. Aperture sights would not be easy to see the target. Terrain/vegetation does not lend itself to 'square range' shooting positions.

My spotting location,


Deer at 400 yards,



Nice buck, bedded at 600 yards.



With the aid of rangefinder, bipod, beanbag, optic with turrets (and plenty of practice building a field shooting position), all are doable.

If your hunting requires it?

Nothin' wrong with good support and fancy accoutrements.

In fact, there's nothing particularly wrong w/ them at all.


But if one needs them at <300 yards?

...then Marksmanship skills are lacking.

That's all.


Look at shooting aids like using a fish-finder for bass.

May help you win a tournament...

... but it's no part of bein' a fisherman.




GR

You don't hunt much do you.? Elk probably never.

Oh no, now we're going to have to suffer that same prime rib photo, from the same restaurant, every 6 months, like he just ate it, last night !!!!

LOLOL.

Likely not though, he seems rather averse to posting BTDT picts.

Yep, and them goldurn artyfishil lures is cheatin' too by cracky.

If you didn't learn this in the Service, were trained on an AR platform, or have neglected it to extinction...

... this is an outstanding reference source for smooth-bottom rifle Marksmanship, which is considerably more useful in the field and on the range than Table 2 Course of Fire.

Manual:
How to Shoot the U.S. Army Rifle (Downloadable PDF)

Accompanying Video:

Now, there is no reason to not be able to shoot < 4 MOA from field positions... only excuses.

You're welcome.

8>)




GR

Or you could use your brain, a rest, and shoot better than 4 moa.

News flash, some folks don't live in the 1940s.




(Ps I nailed it.....boomer)

Never had the time to sling up myself in engagements 300 and in. If they were further we used air…. Way stinkin better than any sling…

You running for office

Holy smokes…. That was epic.

Plenty of staunch Creed haters are those "good ol' boys" with .270s shooting 2 points. They're just as much of snobby elitists as those they're mocking.

Anyhow I am genuinely curious if the OP just wants to get a rise out of people, or if he is serious. I can't tell with this one but am edging towards him being serious at first, but realized the hole he dug and is now playing dumb and backpeddling quietly. I doubt he's really dumb enough to admit to shooting ducks with a .22 LR on the open net, if he really does do that.

Fuuck you Sally’s, I’m callin in a ammo drop, if there’s lead in the air, there’s death!!! Fuuck you marksman !! 🖕🏿🖕🏿👊🏻👊🏻

He's getting a lot of attention, so keeping it on a roll, or at least me thinks.

< 4 MOA marksmanship from field positions - is not all that difficult, if one understands the drill and works a little at it.

Fast-food drive-thru's are full of those who don't both.

Crutches - are like that.




GR

It's actually so easy to do - I wonder why some tout it like they've actually accomplished something. Then again, those who chose to use a tripod/bipod/rest etc - they're the types not happy with "bare minimums" and "good enough". If you can, you do. And often, you can. So why not use the rest and get to 1 MOA.

Agree that it's pretty easy.

But disagree that most can.

In fact, these days, most can't, and don't even know how.


Crutches are like that.

And they think that, because everybody else is using then...?

... it's just the new way to walk.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

My marksmanship is minute of beer can.

The fundamentals of marksmanship do not change. Doesn't matter if your artificial support is your loop sling and radius/ulna, or a Harris bipod, or a tripod, or a fallen tree, or a big rock.

With optics, sight alignment falls out of the list. But sight picture, support, natural point of aim, breathing control, trigger control, follow through, all still apply equally.

And 4 moa marksmanship "skill", will not get you very far on a prairie dog town, or many other situations.

This!

+1

Marksmanship schmarksmamship. Let’s see what garand can do with this….

Oh yaaaa.👊🏻 Sexy

That right there is a high class rig!

Very nice!

4 MOA... is the minimum.

A good rifle and a solid field position should net < 3 MOA.


The vitriol here toward basic marksmanship is appalling.

And Exceptions to the Rule - don't excuse a lack of basic marksmanship skills, regardless of the crutch.

... it gets you this:






GR

Well played sir, well played.....

Haha gonna be here a while scott!!

There's no vitriol here against marksmanship.

Phhhhffft. A men's dress shirt from Walmart is mosquito proof. Just about any loose fitting tight weeve fabric is mosquito proof.

The big ones are easy to hit

It’s the little critters that test the “marksmanship”. Oh yea and I don’t use those crutches like sights or anything.

Epic!!

Didn’t we already do this charade with BC?

my old man is 74 and still goes moose hunting with me, age and over 50 years of high seas commercial fishing & heavy construction jobs have taken a toll on his body and he needs a good solid rest for aiming & firing accurately, takes a decent bull moose every year ... I do the raking, calling & judging antlers, he shoots .....

my ol gal at 5'8" & 120 lbs fully clothed in camo gear, used my stainless Win 70 crf in 300 Win Mag, she didn't have the strength to hold aim for very long with unsupported rifle, so I'd tie wire a stick/branch to make a horizontal rifle rest at height for her comfort, she's taken some really nice bull moose out to 450 yards, so far

my son was 12 and skinny as a rail, used the same Win 70, 12 lb rifle (with scope) to take a monsta 64" bull moose, yup, off a stick wired to trees rifle rest ....

in Phagandimals view that makes them worthless hunters with a crutch & no marksmanship ....

he seems to forget that civilians hunt animals .... and the first shot needs to count, in order to kill the animal STAT ..... & that requires precise aiming that you can only attain with a solid rest

go play army somewhere else... back to the barracks toilet on your knees where you do your best work

Take pictures of things loved, and things fascinating.

Things killed with a rifle... are neither.

So hold your breath.




Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

Now I want a cheeseburger....


And later "I am the liquor"

"Ode to the Crutch" - by Craig Boddington

Five Field Shooting Positions You Should Know

Marksmanship... as a Last Resort.




GR

I am both intrigued and confused by the cow cutout 🤔😂 Cover, preventative measure against getting shot?

Epic doesn’t begin to describe this dumbphockery. 19 pages of crutch shaming and he posts a pic of belly benchresters. Unbelievable.

Bob did okay with a rest on the range, made do with whatever it took in the field to smoke big bucks.

I have seen some good off hand 150+ yard shots at coyotes by people that have been doing that all their lives. That's not me. I use whatever rest I can and all my big game rifles have bipods.
For the average hunter, shooting offhand = miss. 4 MOA is a lot and frankly limits your shots to well within 200 yards. Forget varmint hunting without any aids.

I hunted in Wyoming for over 30 years, and the average shot was around 200 yards on any decent deer or antelope. Off hand doesn't cut it.

Aid in stalking.

Haven't you been bitching about people using supports for shooting?

BS. The photographs, antlers and stories all represent memories of our hunting trips. If you don't have even a picture of a rack today then I think we know the real answer.

Couple of us were up last week shooting the national smallbore silhouette championships. Saw very real marksmanship there but it does not diminish the marksmanship of every hunter that uses whatever they can do to make a clean shot on a real animal vice a steel chicken or ram.

Are you the fat guy in the camo?

Figured when you counted up to 19... on a 10-page thread, you were havin' trouble.

Satire.




GR

Don't think that guy can do ten pull-ups or runs 3-miles a day.

Can you?




GR

And, when a simple crutch is just not enough...?

The "Stephen Hawking" Lead-Sled Deluxe.



You'll shoot as brilliantly as a disabled Theoretical Physicist!

... but not a basic rifleman.




GR

Take pictures of things loved, and things fascinating.

Things killed with a rifle... are neither.

So hold your breath.







GR[/quote]
So basically, you don't have any pictures of any animal you "killed."

So show us some pictures of any rifle(s) you own.

Here's a couple of rifles I own.

Have a variety of fascinating rifles.

Some scoped, some aperture sighted, all w/ 1-1/4" web sings.

To what point?

Can shoot all of them well under 4 MOA from standing, and well under 3 MOA from sitting or prone.




GR

Interesting.

Let's see some of them.

Then suggest you start a thread.

This one's RE: Marksmanship... or lack there of.




GR

Damn, Elkster, you have to use a bench and bags to hit a truck at that distance?

Heavens to Mercatroid, the use of crutches!!



Nice rifle!

Heavens to mercatroid???? Dude, how old are you???

I see you've heard it, too.

Miss those old saturday morning cartoons.

I'm 65.

So, that's a "no" for showing us pictures of rifles you own.

Figures.

Marksmanship! 😁

So was havin' a discussion RE: shot placement w/r/t bullet construction.

Decided to google it, and found this bunch of Marksmaplegic handicaps.


They brag about the 6.5CM like it was the "Hammer of Thor," but are so unskilled... that they even have to put Lead-Sleds in their tree stands!




GR

This.

Of the last 5 elk I have killed, 4 were 60 yds or less, the 5th one was 150 yds while I was sitting with the forearm across my knee.

A light, easy handling rifle without a lot of paraphernalia hanging off of it will kill a lot of critters........

I like it!

Take a dozen old golf balls, your .22 LR rifle (aperture or scope sighted), and 100 rds of ammo.

Scatter half out at 25 yds. (~ 6 MOA), and the other half out at 50 yds. (~ 3 MOA).

From Standing:
- 10 slow fire. 25 yds.
- 10 rapid fire. 25 yds.

From Sitting:
- 10 slow fire. 50 yds.
- 10 rapid fire. 25 yds.

From Prone:
- 5 slow fire. 50 yds.
- 5 rapid fire. 50 yds.

Then reset the targets and do it again.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

It's a Skill!!!

😁😂😂

Basic Rifleman skill. (aperture or scope sighted)

< 4 MOA from Standing... ( 8" at 200 yards)
< 3 MOA from Sitting... ( 9" at 300 yards)
< 2.5 MOA from Prone. (10" at 400 yards)

No need to play sniper, unless you are shooting past 400 yards in the field.

Some Instruction and Practice is all that is required.

Not Available - at a store near you.




GR

"Snipers - start at Six-hundred yards.

Most hunting is done at less than Three.

GR"


So which is it?

Do you begin to be a sniper at 400 yards or 600 yards?




You have never cited any documentation to back up anything that you say.

When asked if you have a background as a sniper or any sort of professional credentials, you deliberately avoid answering.

Why should anyone give any credence to anything you say?


Your sentence right here:




"Shoot how you run in the field. Me? That's BDU's/Boots, Rifle w/ a 1-1/4" web sling, and a lightly loaded assault pack."



Well that just screams grown man who loves to play dress-up and pretend he is something and someone he is not. Yet you want to lecture others how they should be doing something, when in fact you have absolutely ZERO credentials or background to do so.

You would do well to stop lecturing others on things that you clearly are not a subject matter expert on, no matter how badly you want to be.

BTW,

I would get a kick out of you telling my former co workers that they are not real marksmen according to you, since they choose to use whatever field expedient support they can find to make a clean shot.

Ruthless. 😂😂😂

Because he has such a cool handle and can cut & paste with the best of 'em.

???????WTF????????

Sure, golf balls are fun targets, if you are shooting them from 500 yards.

Ground squirrels are fun too!


Although a long shot would be 100 yards. 😉

Was issued cotton ripstop BDU's.

Liked'em then... like'em now.

And surplus assault packs are a great size for hunting, and are rugged and inexpensive.

You don't have to like either.


You seem to be all balled up emotionally in this Marksmanship skill thing.

Your sniper persona is obviously very important to you.


Do you have any basic Rifleman skills?

You don't have to be able to shoot in the field.

Crutches are like that.




GR

Speaking of crutches, is that how you get around the old folks home?

"Runnin' 3-miles a day, and shooting < 4 MOA from field positions, keeps the crutches away."

- GR -

Marksmanship - is a skill.

... you probably lack.


Using memes to hide behind is juvenile.


Try learning to shoot, instead.

< 4 MOA - is not all that difficult.




GR

This article is Six(6) years old.

... and this nonsense is now in full bloom.


... The competition world tends to push the limits of gear and bullets, so new advances are needed to win each year. The 6.5 became an answer to the .308 in competition because it offered better ballistics and less recoil for playing a game. Yes, I said it. Better ballistics for playing a game. The slightly cringworthy idea of tactical rifle shooting was born and a new generation of wannabe snipers stepped up ring steel. This is harsh, but true.

The sport was later re-branded as Practical competition, which is kinda odd seeing as how it isn’t really practical at all. But then again I shoot at circles with a 100 year old Mauser, so I guess I shouldn’t comment too much on the matter. Alas, people playing sniper led to the trend in modern 6.5mm rifles and PRS competition was established, which has given the idea some actual weight in the community in recent years....


Prophetic.

... and all at the expense of basic rifleman skills.




GR

Please regale us with all of your worldly experiences as a professional shooter.


The deployments you were on, what theater of operation, etc.

Gentlemen

It’s obvious that we have met the fulfillment of

“ stupidity is a bottomless pit “


I’m out.

Jerry

LOL

3 miles is just a warm up Boomer.

Why run it.

... at 04:30, after a 1:15 min. workout, and 15 min. more afterward.

Then my day starts.


No crutches here, little one.

... just basic riflemen skills.




GR

Come back when you can't stay as long, and have even less to contribute.




GR

I wanna hear too. Pleeaassse

Hey OP, if this is purely about marksmanship, why put the thread in the big game forum ?

& yes, I too, think you're a trolling dumbass !

Thats all? Easy day no wonder no cruches. I have a 50k ultra coming up, and there is still time for you to get in Boomer. Let me know if you want in.

Thanks for the offer, sport, but the knees don't like the long runs anymore.

2.5 Mi. - gives me a leisurely 20 min. run... ending up at the park for pull-ups and bar-dips, then a 0.5 mi. run home, for time, gets what's left.


Best of luck to ya, as 50k is a stretch of road.




GR

Opinions are like [bleep]... and you are proof of that.

If you can find an adult to help you with this thread, you will come to understand that it's RE: Field Marksmanship.

Rifleman skills - neglected and ignored.


So, don't get your man-bun in a twist, junior.

Just try learning to shoot.




GR

A 13 yo living out his fantasy while playing call to duty or, much worse, an adult who has become a legend in his own mind. I think what you have been constantly spouting "marksmanship is a skill" is correctly stated Marksmanship is a "perishable" skill. Another on ignore!

Not if one never had it to begin with.

Enjoy your ego, and your crutches... alone.




GR

4MOA accuracy is what it is, and ain't what it ain't.

What it is: Satisfactory marksmanship for new recruits. Satisfactory accuracy for hitting a torso out to 300 yards, most of the time....where any hit is a good hit. A standard most recruits will be able to master in the limited time available in recruit training.


What it ain't: It is not precision accuracy or even close, by any measure. Certainly nothing to promote as a "skill".

When mastery of basic marksmanship is combined with modern equipment (and mine is actually fairly dated any more), sub 1 moa out to past 1000 yards is achievable by most any rifleman who can apply the fundamentals of marksmanship.



My precision rifles are fairly basic. 308 Win, and 30-06, 10X or 12X glass. Rem 700 rifles with some upgrades in stocks, triggers. I handload my precision ammo. All these targets are from prone on the ground, not on a groomed firing line.

Typical results using a Harris bipod, and a rear beanbag:

100 yards, 10 rounds, .65" group:







560 yards, sub-moa. The square is 5"x 5"




1120 yards, sub-moa. The square is 5" x 5".




And yes, I've shot on the USMC rifle qual courses many, many, times with the M16A1 and M16A2. Rifle Expert, 16th Award.
It's no great feat to master. Certainly nothing to carry on about like Garand is doing.



Garand, you like what you like, and that's fine. No harm, no foul, in any of that. But you are not impressing anyone with your close-minded and derisive remarks toward anything other than 'your way'. Your way is very basic, and with it come a lot of limitations.

Pretty sure I've got the field marksmanship thingy covered !



& this bald head, has never had enough hair for your bun comment !

I sure hope you weren't using a rest for that buck.

Well, as you can see, that looks like a clear cut, in Canadian Boreal forest.

& you can see, a very dead, Canadian buck.

I may have used, anything I deemed necessary, to get the job done !

With a girls rifle no less!!🤣😁🤣😁🤣😁

My gripe - is that all these want-a-be snipers can't even hold 4 MOA from field positions... period.

... and then are actually offended if one calls them on it.


4 MOA - will take even running game at 150 yards.

3 MOA - will take game to near 300.

No sweat at all for basic rifleman skills, learned in two weeks, remember?


They've created a cult, a marksmaplegic "snow-globe," where they don't have to.

Fine by me, bein' simply the illumination of it.







GR

I'd argue the whole rifle is a crutch. A real marksman hunts with one of these...

New 2 99s;
Good afternoon my friend, I trust you and your fine family are well!

That's a nice buck sir!!

I'm not sure if you've posted it previously and I've just forgotten yet another detail or not...

Maybe don't tell me okay?

The day's been going good for me as I actually got through to Miramichi today and have an honest to goodness reference number from them on the transfer of all the restricted stuff in the safe that we're able to our daughter.

Fingers crossed we get written approvals before Crown Prince Socks has another moment of brilliance, you know? I am so done with this group in power now, so very, very done.

Anyways, it's been a decent day and you killed a very decent buck!

Regarding the topic at hand, I'm not the shot on game I once was when I was in my '30's for sure. There was a time that a buddy said I was the fastest game shot he'd seen, but he doesn't say that anymore... for good reason.

All the best.

Dwayne

Yes Sir !!!

When you're "rugged up" for our winter, the LOP is almost perfect !

Oh, & I love the accutrigger too.

Took a bull moose with Deb's rifle too.

Ha, ha Dwayne, yes, posted before & it is my avatar !

Shot it, just off the old property, on Crown Land, in 2015.

As stated above, using Deb's Savage Lady Hunter in 7mm-08 & factory barnes vor-tx 120gr TTSX.

Same load for the bull moose, the year before.

Glad you got it done with the CFO !

I can appreciate that. I have a manual in my 2001 F250 SD

I get that sentiment, but who are you referring to? Most guys that you're calling "wanna-be snipers" seem to take an interest in precision shooting and shrinking their group sizes from all positions. It's the guys I see running around with SKSs, burning through crates of ammo in an afternoon, that can't seem to shoot a 10 MOA group.

This thread reminds me of Carl Ross' 24HCF Positional challenge. Maybe we should resurrect that challenge.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9318978/1

F250/Escape/Mustang GT: all manual.

And every rifle wears a 1-1/4" cotton web sling.




GR

Simple observation, starting w/ the OP.


This article was also quoted:

"Ode to the Crutch" - by Craig Boddington

Five Field Shooting Positions You Should Know

Marksmanship... as a Last Resort.


In this vid, they All use lead-sleads, even in tree-stands.


And then this board becomes unhinged when one points it out.


Go to the rifle range w/ a shooting mat?

You will most likely be alone.




GR

I'd Craig Boddington's word over yours anytime and twice on Sunday, gr.

Do you use the schitty sling as a crutch?

Yet another offended disciple of the church of the want-a-be sniper.


The sling - is already on the rifle.

... for carrying it.


See how that works?




GR

He got old.

And he was a pogue, but I'll bet he could still shoot in his prime.

Now he gives monetized endorsements for crutches.

Careful pickin' your "Experts."




GR

That appears to be both your intellectual and emotional apogee.

Will expect less.




GR

Hey Skeen like this??😁 So easy a thirteen year old kid can do it.

Nice! That's it, Elmer Keith style. I like it.

Who TF is "Arty" anyway? Is he an attention whore too??

Are you lookin' to join a club?

You would be a stand-out member.

Could bring your crutches for show-n-tell.




GR

Oh so using a sling as a crutch is ok?

Just making sure I understand the boomer hierarchy of crutches.

So if a bipod is attached to the gun it's OK? Or is it too much "new fangled technology"?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Inveterate scope user.

Sling's already on the rifle.

Adults use then to carry it.

More a leg than a crutch.


Try shooting w/o your bipod.

~ 3-4 MOA is fine for hunting most game out to ~ 300 yards.

A rifleman can do that w/ a hasty sling.




GR

I don't use a bipod.....or sling.....

Again I'm just trying to understand your hierarchy of acceptable crutches, since you yourself (a 3moa expert rifleman) use a crutch. With your exceptional ability, why do you think you need to rely on a crutch?

Basic Field Shooting Positions.

How to Shoot the U.S. Army Rifle

Like Jesus on the Cross.

Try harder.




GR

GR

They should make a book on shooting positions for old Farts…

The military doesn’t have as many old farts and God knows we use all kinds of crutches in competition..


Aside from that - knowing what impacts where a rifle shoots is wildly absent information amongst shooters who think they know what they are doing.
At least is was for me as I came up through the shooting ranks (learned from a bunch of old fart shooters that knew a great deal more than me).

Shoot PRS, High power, and Benchrest and each group will teach you a ton of stuff…
If you find some old farts that know what they are doing, and relatively can keep your mouth shut long enough you’ll learn stuff.


Heck I’ve learned some critical things from Guys like Saddlesore - but he used to be a NRA cert. trainer - so you never know…

Field shooting with Garandimal.





Lol

🦫

Ha, ha, TFF Beav !!!

Guessing that's referred to, as the reverse crotch, crutch !

When the forend becomes the buttstock.....

Deploying the ‘pucker function’ for a steadier hold on those long range shots is helpful. 🤦‍♀️😝


🦫

I wonder if the vibrations would be pleasing?

Why not call your mommy and cry on her shoulder?? Jesus Christ man

LOL!

Lots of crutches..

Don't you just need a worthless cotton sling crutch

I think she needs a truckload of depends, a binky and a whole lotta vagisil.. maybe some time in the brush killin shiit. 👊🏻

"MARKSMANSHIP IS A SKILL"

[
[quote] Relativism.

If one needs crutches?

... then one is handicapped.

Not too complicated.




GR

Just basic field marksmanship skills...



Not so scary after all.




GR

When the hole gets too deep to climb out, pull the dirt in from the sides and burry that argument. Look, no one has said hunters should not learn marksmanship skills we know that, however it is incumbent on us to use the best tools and a rest is the best tool if available,

Should be a snap to set up, still hunting, in the presence of game...






GR

Also demonstrates the proper donning procedure for hearing protection, well done!!!

LMAO!!!

Another good reason to use crutches.

Save your hearing.


No wonder you guys are takin' over the World.




GR

You think hearing protection is a crutch.

Got it.

That....is not a cotton sling. It is a leather crutch....don't go all woke on us, and look out for PETA.

Marksmanship is a skill.

Looks like a junky about to tie off.....no need for crutches! Develop skill, don't use crutches.....I mean we're talking 3moa here...

[quote=SKane]When someone is offended about how others go about business, it's generally a given their personal album of field/trophy photos to be wafer-thin.

AMEN . Looks like a responsible hunter to me , the game deserves no less than the best you can do . If that's what it takes for him , more power to him.

Anybody know who this guy is...?






GR

Is that really you?

Pappy O'Daniel?

Just another old guy who knew nothing compared to Stick.

Cool hat though.

Fedora, like "Indiana Jones."

Think he knows anything about hunting?




GR

Who said that...? And hopefully you didn't pay for it.

Selfies...?

Ha!




GR

Whoever he is... he looks like he knows his way around a rifle.




GR

They sell 'em at David Morgan's. You could ask your mom to buy you one.

https://www.davidmorgan.com/shop/product/1128/adventurer-hat-open-crown/

Why?

You do séances, too?


Think this guy can hit anything w/ that rifle he's got there?






GR

I can't believe O'connor was using that crutch, er, I mean scope.

Marksmanshio, it's a skill.

Apparently trolling is, as well.

Looks like he's using a crutch to me...based off of your nonsensical ramblings he should be ashamed. Using a sling and a knee....the nerve!

P.s. you are a moron.

The ironic thing about the big guy in the camo coat is that he is quite the marksman and an advocate for field shooting conditions; I believed a disabled veteran who runs F-Class matches, "sniper" matches, and a few other styles. His name is Bob Roach, unless I'm misremembering. If the original poster in this thread knew him, they may find quite a bit of common ground. But posting a photo from a belly-benchrest or benchrest competition is like saying a racecar is a "crutch" at an F1 race; you should use your daily driver.

This thread, and the others running concurrently, are full of such “logic.”

OP has proven himself to be a moderately effective troll, however.

I believe he's the guy asking about hunting at 600 yards. I wonder what form of "crutch" he will be using there?

I'm gonna go with Maxi-pad.

3-4 MOA is most certainly NOT good enough for "most game" at 300 yards. 4 moa at 300 yds is gonna land somewhere in a 24" circle!

Interesting thread. I suspect unrealistic ideas of marksmanship, a lack of spot-and-stalk experience and little or no experience shooting off of sticks contributed to the original posting.

The first time I went to Africa, I didn't bother practicing off of sticks in that I thought all the offhand shooting I had done would transfer. It didn't. Shooting off sticks is a skill in itself and takes practice to do well. After learning how, I rarely go afield without them. Sticks can get you above the brush, which is important when stalking. I've never measured it, but I suspect it sticks take my shooting ability to 3 MOA or so consistently and under realistic conditions.

Regarding offhand shooting skills, the targets used for silhouette matches are in the 4-5 MOA range in height and I suspect average bigger than that overall. A REALLY good shooter in the hunting rifle class will shoot about 75% offhand in a match. Shooting around 80% will probably put you in the upper few and might win a national championship. Rimfire shooters shoot 1/5 the distance at 1/5 scale targets and shoot a few targets better than that. The lack of recoil of a rimfire really helps.

Based on my experience with silhouettes and dabbling in High Power, I would say it takes a good shooter to consistently shoot 6 MOA offhand.

My math may be wrong, but I think 4 MOA is a little over 12" at 300, which is border line for shooting game, assuming one can shoot 4 MOA standing.

3-4 MOA shooting is indeed a nominal 9-12" at 300 yards.

Most would be lucky to shoot that at 100 with their "sub-MOA" rifles, off the concrete bench and from field positions.




GR

The sling is my friend.

As it should be.

It's on the rifle anyway, right?

Why not make it a shooting sling.


Marksmanship - is a Skill.




GR

Don't know if already mentioned but Craig Boddington is a retired Marine Brigadier General. He most likely knows how to shoot.

Semper Fi

Killed a few gators, 11’ fatso with knife., monster that made mags, nah he almost sunk the boat and guide talked me outta knife on what may be heaviest gator killed.

Pigs with grab dogs, bear is interest since childhood but seeing them speared from above in bait, nah! Took last three at 10 yards and refused to buddy tag a 600 lbs known bear at same.

Just saying, lots of other arguments to make about Tarzan or marksmanship.

Panther, only one I’ve seen was on Duck Dynasty but it looked like a really overweight guy named Godwin crawling shirtless through brush. Did see a couple cougars on GA border at 1am and thought local zoo lost its lionesses.

Knifing one of those might get interesting.

It's the culture in general, not him in particular.

Although he is a big promoter of it, as he relies on it to shoot in his old age, and this is normalized.

Go to any civilian rifle range - and see how many are shooting from standing, or field positions from a mat.




GR

This

The term you are searching for is "Marksman."

Not all that difficult, with a little practice.

Ha!




GR

No, you're a very effective dipschit.

You just follow me around and hump my leg, don't you, little one.

Fat-ass can't shoot without a concrete bench, and now changing my quote.

Aren't you a precious little... Thing.

Ha!


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

Most guys don't know squat about hunting anymore. Couldn't find a buck bed if their life depended on it or identify it as such if they fell in one, can't tell a buck track from a doe track, don't know what deer eat other than what a farmer planted, they planted themselves or put in their feeders. In short they're shooters not hunters. They rely on gadgets, range finders, bi pods, feeders and scopes that can be dialed to kill game in the next county instead of woodsmanship and need all the help they can get to kill anything.

Tell'em that you Still hunt... and they think you're hunting Turkey, or sittin' in a climbing tree stand.

And Marksmanship is just a component.

Brave new world.




GR

LOL, if I humped you anywhere it'd be in the ear, that's about how you measure up, worthless sock.

You're a sad old useless leg-humper.

Like a retarded puppy.

Fat-ass can't shoot without a concrete bench pathetic loser.

But you are the Circle-jerk King, so at least you are gettin' some daily protein.

Ha!




GR

Douchemanship, it's your calling.

Worthless sock.