I bought a Ruger American 308, but it's just not what I'm looking for, so it's for sale. My plan for this rifle is to run it suppressed with a 18"-20" barrel. Because of the velocity loss, would I be better off with the '06?
I bought a Ruger American 308, but it's just not what I'm looking for, so it's for sale. My plan for this rifle is to run it suppressed with a 18"-20" barrel. Because of the velocity loss, would I be better off with the '06?
I wouldn’t thank so. Are you gonna run subsonic?
If not, what velocity and what gr bullet are you contemplating?
DF
No plans to run subsonic. I have a couple hundred of the 155 Scenar that I plan on running as fast as either cartridge will allow. I'm assuming 2700 fps for the 308 and possibly 2900 fps in the '06. I hunt and live out west, so shots could be anywhere from 10- 600.
I shoot an 18" 30-06 with 155 Scenars doing right around 2800. I stopped there since accuracy was great and I didn't see a need for more speed. It kills stuff nicely though.
I run the 155 scenar in both 308, and the 06
2875 in the 308, 3020 in the 06
If fast is your goal, check out the Absolute Hammer bullet. It’s so slick and low friction, it can be pushed faster than more conventional bullets. Google for details. Not cheap but accurate with great terminal performance.
IMO, the ‘06 has an advantage with heavier bullets. .308 is a great round, not a lot of difference with lighter bullets.
DF
I run the 155 scenar in both 308, and the 06
2875 in the 308, 3020 in the 06
I assume those are standard length barrels, 22"-24"?
46.5 grs of Varget and 20” tube I am getting right around 2800 fps.
I love the 155 scenarios in my old 26” sps 308. I think it was 46.5g varget loaded to aics mag length. Somewhere 2850 to 2900fps.
I bought a Ruger American 308, but it's just not what I'm looking for, so it's for sale. My plan for this rifle is to run it suppressed with a 18"-20" barrel. Because of the velocity loss, would I be better off with the '06?
It's not hard to get 2900-2950 in the .308 with a 24" barrel with the 155 and Varget. What that translates to in your particular barrel is hard to say. The real question is, how fast would it be going at 600 and will it open up at that velocity. They seem to open easier than a lot of other bullets at slower speeds, but hard to say if you can't narrow it down to a velocity at your max range.
I've decided to stick with the RAR for now. I ordered the AI magazine conversion from Ruger, and I'll have the barrel cut and threaded at 20". For the minimum investment, I'll get a chance to try out the .308. Looking over my notes from when I originally shot it, I was averaging about 2825 with TAC. 46.5 of Varget was giving me pressure signs before I chrono'ed velocities.
46.5 grs of Varget and 20” tube I am getting right around 2800 fps.
Same for me - I actually get a bit over 2800 with my current lot of Varget.
Rex
At 20" a 308 may not lose enough speed to matter. The fastest 308 I own is a 20" Tikka CTR. It shoots 20-30 fps faster than my 22" guns. A 30-06 will start with more speed. But when cut will lose more. At the end of the day, I'd still guess an 18-20" 30-06 will still be faster than an 18-20" 308. But the difference won't be as much as it would be if both had 22-24" barrels.
It wouldn't be worth 20-25% more recoil from the 30-06 plus it will be louder. I'd stay with 308 for what you want to do. To my way of thinking 30-06 doesn't start to be better than 308 until you get to 180 gr and heavier bullets.
With that barrel length, 308 for sure
I’ve also run the 155s over Varget in probably 10-12 308s (some with short tubes) and have had great results.
The 308 will easily run 2800 to 2900 with a 155 Scenar. I was loading 48.5 gr’s Varget. I have since moved to 43.5 gr’s TAC for 2820 fps average. This is the exact same speed I harvested 50+ Axis & smaller animals with my 280 Remington running commercial loaded Remington 150 gr CoreLokt’s. 150 gr bullets at 2800+ is a terminal combination.
I just looked at my notes and my load of 46.0 gr's of Varget in a Nosler case runs 2714 fps with a SD of 5.8. This is out of a 16" Christensen MPR 308 running suppressed. Interesting to note that factory Norma 150 gr soft points run 200 fps slower out of the same gun.
If you cut the barrel of a 300 Win. Mag. It would be faster than a 308 and if you're running it suppressed. I think you would be the only guy at the range or, in the woods with a setup like that.
Dude, you guy's crack me up sometimes.
Yup....22" in the 307, "24 in the 06
I run the 155 scenar in both 308, and the 06
2875 in the 308, 3020 in the 06
This is almost exactly what I've found. My 1st gen ti is 30-06 and the load I keep on hand for it and what it's sighted in with is a 155 scenario over h4350. It clocked 3030fps from the 22" barrel.
My model 7 ss that I use as a loaner 308 has 155s loaded for it over varget and gets about 2850fps from the 20" barrel. It would probably do 30-40fps more from a 22" but 308 is pretty efficient so once you go past 20" you don't gain a lot per inch. If you're going shorter barrel anyways a 308 is a bit more efficient and does well in 20" barrels.
Bb
Still waiting for the .308 to be finished. I'm hoping to have it back in time for spring bear.
At 20" a 308 may not lose enough speed to matter. The fastest 308 I own is a 20" Tikka CTR. It shoots 20-30 fps faster than my 22" guns. A 30-06 will start with more speed. But when cut will lose more. At the end of the day, I'd still guess an 18-20" 30-06 will still be faster than an 18-20" 308. But the difference won't be as much as it would be if both had 22-24" barrels.
It wouldn't be worth 20-25% more recoil from the 30-06 plus it will be louder. I'd stay with 308 for what you want to do. To my way of thinking 30-06 doesn't start to be better than 308 until you get to 180 gr and heavier bullets.
My thoughts exactly.
A 150 grainish bullet and a shorter barrel is right in a 308’s wheelhouse for efficiency and taking advantage of a short action.
Thought I would give an update.
18” RAR shooting 155 Scenars @2876. This was only an average of 3 because that’s all I had left. Load of 26.5 TAC in FC brass is giving ejector marks so I back off 1/2 grain. Worked good on the one bear I shot with it.
Looks like it worked 👍. Hard not to like a 308, it checks lots of boxes.
What optic are you using?
SWFA 3-9.
Cut my load back to 46gr of TAC, no preesure signs this time with an average velocity of 2832.
Take this for what you want - but I have killed/been apart of kills of close to 25 big game animals over the last few years all with scenars (139s out of the creed and 150s out of the 7 mag) and you have to remember that scenars are hard - harder than most similar type bullets. I prefer to push them Fast and even better aim for heavy bone. I have had the 150s break shoulder bones on elk and moose and exit.
In the creedmoor - we push 139s at a hot 2840 and the 150s in the 7 mag at 3150.
If it was me - I’d shoot the 30/06 and push 155s fast.
Take this for what you want - but I have killed/been apart of kills of close to 25 big game animals over the last few years all with scenars (139s out of the creed and 150s out of the 7 mag) and you have to remember that scenars are hard - harder than most similar type bullets. I prefer to push them Fast and even better aim for heavy bone. I have had the 150s break shoulder bones on elk and moose and exit.
In the creedmoor - we push 139s at a hot 2840 and the 150s in the 7 mag at 3150.
If it was me - I’d shoot the 30/06 and push 155s fast.
The 308 load replicating you 6.5 velocity so far has proven effective, granted its on animal. This bear took two shots. The first was quartering away at about 100. The bullet exited between the front legs leaving an exit wound about 2" in diameter. No bone was hit. the second shot at about 30 yards was truly broadside leaving a half dollar size exit after hitting a far rib. After being present on 15 bears being shot from various distances, I've not witnessed a blood trail as large or as close to the impact spot as this one.
Cut my load back to 46gr of TAC, no preesure signs this time with an average velocity of 2832.
Velocity is your "pressure sign." IMO you're on the upper, outer edge of SAAMI pressures with that velocity with the 155 in an 18" bbl'd 308. I'd back off .5 to 1.0 grains personally.
both are great cartridges why change cartridge ? both will do about the same thing i am not a short barrel person give me a 24 inch barrel always.