Man things have changed - in KS hot deer property is high Dollar anymore, heck even cabelas is in the realestate business now.

So if you've done it (buy land that is) share you ideas as to where, what, when, and how to buy land for hunting.

Most guy's either describe CRP, or butting the land up to a forest or something like that. Water, woods, and food sources are pretty easy.. what else. I'm a newbie on this one.


Thanks,
Spot

Same thing in TX but it's been very high for some time. For me to someday afford some hunting land I may have to but some ruined land (overgrazed or cedar filled) and convert it back over a period of time......

Just a thought if you can find some dirt cheap land in bad shape....

-GW

One good thing about the SE states is that you can at least grow timber on a decent site while using it for deer hunting. Especially good if you can get a peice large enough for various age classes with some SMZ's and hardwoods left in the bottoms. We don't have the big deer reputation that some of the other states have, but at least we don't have to pay for "dead land" than doesn't produce income.

Most farm land in ks goes 700-900 an acre.. as long as it's not near a city.

I've seen crazy prices like over 2k an acre.. Now I grew up on a farm and I'll tell you that 2k an acre is priced for people who have way, way too much money or it's the richest land I've ever seen. Maybe if it was watered like the irrigation sprinklers I could see making that back...

Hell even the land in Central Iowa only goes for 3k an acre and it's the best there is. I can't ping a guy for trying to make money when they can do it but... average slep's like me can't bite off on it.

I'll probably have to buy a small 50-80 acre slice, pay it off and upgrade to something bigger.

Spot

I got lucky. I looked for a long time before finding my place. I got 160 acres of Live Oak, Post Oak, Mesquite, wet weather creeks, lots of grass, and a few large draws. Got it for a great price. I had to do quite a few improvements (water wells, stock tanks, fences, etc). We have a nice Deer herd, lots of Turkeys, those pesky hogs, quail, dove, coons, etc.

We got our financing through a land bank. It was fairly easy.

All I can advise is to not get in a big hurry. Your land is out there. You'll know when you find it.

Good luck.

Jim

One of the big negatives at least in Virginia & NC where I hunt is that unless you live on the land or have a resident you develop the hunting for poachers. I know of a wealthy business owner in NC that is buying & leasing large tracks of land for deer hunting. Locals follow his purchases & call these their private hunt clubs since QDM is followed. In Texas where I have hunted you would be better served to murder someone than to trespass on their deer lease. It may not be the same where you purchase land.

I do a good bit of appraisal work regarding timberland, some owned by large timber companies. Most of these parcels are leased to local hunting clubs for a few dollars an acre. For the most part, these guys are not a problem when it comes to my work as I tell them that I am representing the landowner. Every now and then, you will run into a fellow with an IQ smaller than his hat size and he may give you some grief. I always leave maps and such on my dashboard so that the curious folks won't think I am trespassing or scoping out "their" hunting spots.

You need a local caretaker to watch over things when you're not there, and some way to make it pay for itself, or the burden will be heavy.
My hunting land is well situated, we have good habitat and lots of game. But the key factor that lets us enjoy it to the fullest is a local partner who takes care of it day to day, keeps up relations with the neighbours, and informs me what's happening when i'm not there. Between my Dad, brother, Me and our local buddy we have nine quarter sections ( a half sq. mi, or 160 ac each) up against the south border of the Porcupine Provincial Forest.
We each own a couple of quarters, but we treat all the land as common for hunting purposes. We can bring anyone, send no one. No motorized vehicles off of designated trails, so nobody is allowed to rip around with ATV's or snowmobiles. The hay land is rented to a local farmer, the revenue is split evenly, and used to pay the taxes. The farmer keeps watch over our land too. Our local friend cuts some trees every year and saws the logs into lumber, but it is a small scale operation, and he uses horses. The logging doesn't look nice, but the revenue keeps him on the land and helps him keep an eye on things, and the new growth is great for moose, deer and grouse. We trap a bit in the winter. Have had a few European tourists out for a wilderness expereince, winter camping and dogsled rides, that sort of thing.
Meanwhile we have a very healthy elk, moose, deer and bear population, lots of small game and fur, room to roam, and freedom to do as we want without a large financial burden of upkeep.
It's about perfect in my mind, hope you can arrange something similar.

I have knowledge of a recent "auction" in SE Kansas where a 7000 plus or minus lot went for 1300 and the bidder would have been happy to go 1500+. Bidder/owner also has way too much money to put a name with him on the internet and has little 100-200,000+ holdings all across the US. Holding land that appreciates at anything in excess of 4%/annum seems to be their bag!

If land prices nationally are doing what they are doing here in Missouri, I say the sooner you can possibly get into some good hunting land, the better off you will be. Look for someone you can trust to go into a partnership with you on it. Fortunately, for us, my wife and I both have pretty good paying jobs. Our boys are grown and just about (but not quite) out of our pocket. We live on 42 acres in central MO, which we can get at least one deer a year off of if needed. We also bought 147 acres almost 3 years ago that is 35 minutes away that we have been cleaning up (it was a mess) and improving habitat on by spraying the fescue and planting clover and lespedeza. We're still working on our hunting cabin. We've harvested 4 deer in the past 3 seasons off that place (2 - 8 pointers on opening day this past year), and could have bagged at least twice that if wanted. But, the value of that land has close to doubled just since we purchased ours. Unfortunately, they aren't making any more land, so I'd say get into some as soon as you can find anything possible that works. A friend of mine from work did the partnership thing with his dad, bro, and a couple of HS buddies, and they have 360 acres now that is in prime deer country in Northern MO. He has killed two 150 class bucks off that place, and it is crawling with deer.

I would try to buy land where game populations were highest in my area. CRP is good for holding deer, and land next to a forest isn't a bad idea either. I bought land that is surrounded by timber company land that is managed pretty well. I'd buy as soon as I could because prices sure aren't going down.

Now I would not get out on that limb. I still belive in gravity - what goes up will come down!

For instance if the stats are correct and hunters are buying fewer license to hunt (Texas for instance) that means that some day the land will again get back to basic cattle raising ie a $500 steer will not demand but a $200 ac land price while a $40,000 deer will provide for the $1200 ac land we now are seeing. Once everyone has his 170 class whitetail it will be back to basic eco 101 - perhaps in our grandchildren's lifetimes.

That's what we said about $1000 dollar an acre land here in Wisconsin. Cheap stuff is now $2000, and if there is any timber, the price goes up. This would be for central Wis. South of here, and not far,maybe 20 miles, it starts at $3000.

You should be in the mountains......
Unimproved mountain land my dad bought 30 years ago for $50/acre (240 acres total), has recently sold for ~$10,500/acre, and it's still unimproved and in one parcel.

Land my dad and I bought 10 years ago for $1200/acre (total of 7 acres), surrounding land is selling for ~$35,000/acre as of last summer.

Casey

We're really fortunate here that the land value is very cheap compare to other places. I bought a quarter section - 160 acres for C$16,000 about ten years ago. I bought one three years ago, much better farm land, for $36,000. We are not allowed to subdivide land into smaller parcels, part of the reason it remains a bargain. Our land cannot be bought by foreigners, which cuts both ways, keeps ownership local, and prices down, but also limits the upside. Our farming economy is in such bad shape the only people spending much money on land these days are hunters and city folk wanting a weekend getaway.

I grew up on a farm in the far northern Mo. It is still great whitetail hunting, but even semi-rough hunting ground is over $1000 an acre. I can't hunt on just 80 acres, so my idea is that I can do a lot of hunting everywhere for what land costs, along with taxes and upkeep. That said, get some ground with some farmland, it is better hunting than something totally brush-choked and will earn you some income along the way. I wouldn't spend the money, rather lease some, but I also already have 300 acres. That isn't enough for me to hunt deer on.

The best part of my land is my neighbors. Cattle ranches on both east and west sides. One neighbor leases my land to run his cows so I don't have to to get the agricultural tax break.
He is on the ground often and keeps an eye on things. Never had one cross word with a neighbor so far.
Any kind of water is a plus. We were forunate to locate a tract bisected by a year round creek.
Our acreage has doubled in price, but really that doesn't mean anything to me. Ain't planning on selling anytime soon.

stumpy

My wife and I have always lived in rural areas starting with a 3.5 acre parcel 25 years ago. We sold that and bought a 40 acre parcel which we sold three years ago and then purchased our 275 acre property. Ours is timberland, with two year round creeks and a number of nice meadows. We have always lived on our land. It is easier to look after and easier to work on it. We spent 5 years looking for our current property and developed a check list of 12 different items (easements, accessibility, water, timber, distance to nearest town, etc.) as we looked at over 100 properties. We looked at our property a month after 9/11 and bought it a month later. Probably has tripled in value since. Contrary to what governement planners want, more and more baby boomers seem to want a little land and peace and quiet. We have deer, elk, bears, cougars, coyotes and turkeys on our property. My wife is hopeful that the moose will get here some day.

The world is full of people who bought land without asking the right questions. Your first call should be to the local government jurisdiction to see if the land is zoned. If so, what does the zoning district allow? Are there any legal restrictions or covenants on the deed? Does the property have easements recorded to allow access for not only roads but any utilities? The land may have water, but do you have legal water rights. Spend the money and sit down with a local attorney who specializes in land deals before you make an offer on anything. Ask all of the "what could go wrong" questions. Make sure the title is clear and that you order a "pin" survey of the property. Where someone thinks the boundary is worth nothing. Only a licensed surveyor can mark the metes and bounds. Don't use a standard real estate contract. At the very least, have your attorney delete the really objectionable clauses. Put in contingency language whereever you suspect there may be a problem. I had an offer on a property rejected because I put in flood plain language... and that was an easy way for me to find out that the seller knew he had constructed structures in the flood plain.

The best advice I can give is to know exactly what you want. The more precise you can be, the more you can eliminate properties from the list. Make a budget, prequalify for a note and narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow. Land against national forest or state lands seems like a good deal, but it can cut both ways. If the land is good hunting, you may have public land hunters wandering onto your spread. There are times when the best neighbor is a friendly private owner.

The demand for land is increasing as population grows, but this demand is proportionate to population growth. There are still plenty of opportunities for a person to buy undeveloped land for a reasonable cost.

Yes, demand for land continues to increase, and prices are increasing accordingly. Here in east central Wisconsin decent hunting land is now going for $3000/acre minimum. This is not discouraging sales, however. If anything, even more folks are buying up these often-undersized parcels.

One of the biggest problems we have with controlling the deer herd in this state is the huge number of small land-holders who won't allow others to hunt their land, so insufficient deer are being taken. The county just west of mine has local deer populations in excess of 150 per square mile as a result. I know of one landowner (40 acres) who takes two deer off his land every year and allows no other hunting, despite the fact that I have counted more than 70 deer in his field at one time on several occasions.

Last year one of the guys I work with suggested we buy an 80-acre parcel together. I did some quick math and suggested that instead of spending $1500 a month each on mortgage payments for the next 20 years, maybe we should put that money aside and take two really nice guided hunting trips every year, while avoiding all the headaches of land ownership and stewardship. He declined to join me in my suggested course of action, and bought the land with somebody else. He won't be hunting anywhere else for a long time, I think. Me, I'm starting to sock money away for the kinds of hunts I've been dreaming of my whole adult life.

Sure, it's nice to own land. But even if you get it at a "good" price, there are a lot of hidden costs in terms of upkeep and time commitments that can really detract from your hunting time.

No thanks, I'm not going there.

Ah, the age old question of investment versus experiences. A strong argument can be made that for the cost of buying a hunting spot, one can pay the freight on some very nice hunting opportunities throughout the world. On the other hand, land is an investment that usually holds, if not increases in value. There is something fundamental in having a piece of dirt. I am fortunate enough to own property in Montana. When I moved to Maryland, I quickly bought 40 acres in West Virginia I thought would serve as a weekend getaway and hunting spot. After a few years, my wife and I sold the property (at a nice profit). Despite our good intentions, we just weren't making it out to the property often enough. We'll probably buy more land when we relocate back west in a few years (after the kids are out of the house). In a perfect world, a hunter will have a chance to have his (or her) own corner of the world and the spare change to go to new place and try different hunts.

I am my Real Estate office in Big Sky today so anyone wanting property down here feel free to call and we'll write it up...grins

Mark D

Hey, get off-line and get to work

There has been land sold recently in my little corner of NW Iowa that went for 5k an acre. There is a culture where I live of farmers who live very modestly but have the cash to buy a half section of land. Land is their gold mine-they think.

It is a point of pride among them and I'm not sure they can even come out ahead at those prices even on the richest, blackest earth.

Instead of a gold mine think corn and ethanol.

I am at work bud, what a view......

Stopped into YGS and got my sportsmans tag, including one for mato of course. Speaking of which!

Dober

"It is the one thing that they don't make more of"........That is what my old man reminds me of all the time.
Do it while you can enjoy it.

The part I like about owning land is that I can hunt my property, I can lease my grazing rights, I can sell a deer lease, I can sell Dove hunts, quail hunts, Turkey hunts, Hog hunts, and varmit hunts. The cost of these hunts alone more than pay my land payments. However, I would not sell hunts. I enjoy my land. It is mine. One day I will sell it and retire. It has increased in price 250% since I bought it just a short time back.

I often talked to my wife about buying land but she said it would be better to take the money and buy a nice lease somewhere. I did for several years and have a few deer heads and memories to show for it.

Now I can have both and when I grow old and can no longer manage it I will sell it and buy a nice bass boat and go fishing.

Jim

We had all better be fighting to abolish property taxes, estate taxes and income taxes, or there won't be any hunting land.

It will all be government land with no hunting and fishing allowed, or carved up by real estate developwhores.

You better do it now IMHO.

Our land was bought late 60s at 75 an acre for 98 acres.
A local piece at 97 acres just went for 997,000.00.

Nothing to see 4-5K an acre. Won't surprise me to see 10K and acre all the time soon enough.

Its decent farming/ranching land. Not many deer. Fewer Turkeys. Hogs in some spots. Doves and Ducks here and there depending...

Its getting stupid, and lease pricing for deer in trophy country... ouch, 10-20 bucks an acre, 500 acres minimum. The other weekend we hog hunted on a lease... they pay 13K a gun, have a mandatory feeding program/food plots, I'd venture to guess they are tossing 20K a year for a lease per gun.

I have 3 acres I need to buy to protect my land in a corner... Won't be able to afford it.

Good luck, Jeff

Jeff...can you say Houston MONEY talkin'!!! I get tickled listening to my kin folks talking about the 100 acre "Ranch" that backs up to Lake Fayetteville, the borrowed bull, cows and calving & mini donkeys that is now the center of their conversation. 10 years ago these refugees from the Dallas and later Houston high fence suburbs couldn't spell cow without thinking of dinner!!! But maybe they guessed right about buying the place ahead of the curve.
Been talking to a Houston based Oil Co Landman looking to finally retire, who within the last couple years sold some beachfront acreage with a waterfront villa & private pool overlooking the channel across from Cozumel, in a Playa del Carmen gated golf course community (on the Mexican Riviera for our uninformed Left Coast & Rocky Mountain friends) and wanted to re invest in mebbe Fayette County where you live in La Grange...sez HE'S already been priced out of the market and having to look further north around Elgin or east of Austin.

I'm glad I have hung on to this dinky lake house, as unimproved ag land that 3-5 years ago that was selling at $3/5k an acre is now pushing $10/12/15k an acre because of the long planned 60 mile extension of the Dallas North Tollway only needs one or two more parcels of land to be bought or condemed in Grayson County
and the dirt will start flying...and end one block from the end of my street within the next 5 years. A buddy with 23 acres that backs up to Army Corps land up a creek completely away from any lake frontage like I have sez his land is appraised at $12k an acre now and he thinks it'll hit $30-40K+ when the surveyor stakes are planted two blocks away. They ain't NO MO' Cheap land in North Texas for sure.
Ron

What I did was to locate land for sale that was situated in such a way that it bordered thousands of acres of state land, BLM land, and National Forest. My land borders the gravel county road and separates the road from all that public land. Theres a big ranch to the south of me so they hunt their own land and dont mess with the public land. There are three other families to the north of me and only 2 of them have hunters in the family so basically three families are the only ones with legal access to thousands of acres of public land. You have to cross one of the four parcels of private property to get from the road to the public land.

If you find the right piece of land it doesnt have to be huge to provide you with huge opportunities. The west has many such situations where you can buy a 40 acre section and have almost exclusive access to many times that.

Sorry, but I think that is just wrong......I don't see any justice in allowing private landowners to control access to PUBLIC land that all of us pay for! I'm definitely not a fan of Government interferrence in private land ownership, but that is exactly the situation when the Government should step in and force an easement into the public property!

One would think the public road would trump the private property issues in the above case.

Lodgepole, I am not jumping on your case as you did not cause the situation you just took advantage of it. Bully for you and I mean that sincerely.

Howsome ever there is still something that strikes a wrong note by landlocking public land. The state or federal should provide access to it. Doesn't have to be a paved road or even the easiest way in but access to public land should be provided to the public without having to use a helicopter I believe.

BCR

1

I have posted on this subject au nauseum, but nevertheless I�ll bore folks again with a couple of old posts that I made regarding public land access.

The most serious issue facing both resident and non-resident hunters is the continuing loss of access to big game habitat. As a hobby, I relocate old CCC pack trails that were built for the USFS in the 30s. To gain access to the National Forest, the government acquired easements across private lands to construct the CCC trails and roads. I would encourage everyone to look a USFS map from the 50s and compare the number of access points available to the public 50 years ago to the number available today. Some Forests have given-up, without even a whimper, 70% of the trailheads that originated on private lands and have not provided alternative access to the public lands that were served by the original systems. CP.



1) In the western United States there are millions of acres of state and federal land that have absolutely no public access. The Outfitting industry in particular and adjoining landowners in general have done extremely well in exploiting this situation.

2) During the 1930s (CCC era), there was a major effort to develop public access points to Forest Service ground. Subsequently, thousands of these easements that were developed in the 30s were forgotten and abandon by the Forest Service. I could write a dissertation on the reasons and the politics behind the lost of public access to federal lands, but I don�t think I could stand the frustration. Nevertheless, I can assure all of you that the hunters of the 50s had one hell of a lot more access routes (primarily pack trails and some primitive roads) to federal land than we have today. CP.

"There are millions of acres of public land with no public access"

Sounds to me like a great business opportunity for a guy with a helicopter!!!!!!

Yeah, nothing to it�

I think you need to apply for a SUP (Special Use Permit) and get after it. However, I�ll forewarn you that you will likely get one hell of an expensive education, and in the end, there is only a remote possibility that you will be granted a permit to pursue your business opportunity. CP.

You are saying that a special use permit is needed to fly people to public areas or to use public areas? I think the permit that grants someone the ability to fly people to public areas for pay is called a commercial pilots liscense. The air above the land belongs to the Federal Govt. and is overseen by the FAA and their Regs. The land also belongs to the Govt. and is public. Am I missing something?

Thanks.

Jim

Jim, a couple of things�.

22WRF spoke to the loss of access as presenting a potential �business opportunity� for ferrying in hunters to these land-locked parcels. All commercial activities on USFS land require a permit, which today are extremely difficult to obtain.

In so far as an individual landing his personal ship on these parcels, there are a myriad of restrictions that are applicable. Fundamentally, the land use category must allow for mechanical activity. With the exception of some sites that were specifically provided for in Congressional legislation, you cannot land in Wilderness Areas. In non-Wilderness areas, parcels that are subject to special land use objectives, ESA considerations, study areas or have other Permitee activities, may not be available for landing as well. It is not the flying (as long as you are 400� above the ground), but the landing where you can find yourself crossways with USFS. I have spent scores of hours flying over and landing on USFS land over the years, but times they are a changing, and you really need to have a conversation with the Agency before you put your skids on their ground. CP.

GADS!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like another S.N.A.F.U.

Jim

Oh, but there is more�

Mix a helicopter with guns and hunting and you will also find that many States will exercise their authority to regulate and restrict your activities as well. CP.

I have a feeling that many in government are getting frustrated from hearing about all of this public land that is not accessable due to private land restrictions. I suspect that if it were made a political issue some permits could be obtained.
After all, public land belongs "to the public" and is therefore fodder for political activity.

LOL! Just got back from "helicopters, guns and hunting", but that was OCONUS with Uncle Sam over land I don't want to own.

The wife and I bought 44 acres last year in middle GA. 35+ with timber, the rest hardwoods/clearings/pond and a house. Great location close to a small town, great neighbors, lotsa deer, some turkeys/quail/doves/ducks and no hogs.

Hunting lease prices just keep getting higher and higher here in the SE. I'm sure it's the same in many states. Can't even begin to say how happy I am to have my own place now. Do your homework, look around and find your slice-o-paradise. You won't regret it.
Sako

GonHuntin if you look at a map showing public land in WY (and I imagine its similar in many western states) it looks literally like a checkerboard in many areas. Blocks of public land within areas of private land, over and over. If the government forced every private landowner to provide access to every tract of public land the private landowners would be screwed. I like it that there is so much public land in my state that people dont have to trample my private property and tear up my fences to get to some of it via a government mandated easement. Theres more than plenty that is accessible to anyone.

Its not the land locked parts that I have issue with if its locked by land alone. Its the dang ones that have/had a public NF road going in but someone bought land on either side of it and gated/locked the road with NF permission. Thats the ones I just can't quite see being legal somehow.

BTW I suspect any state or agency can regulate about anything. Its illegal to fly hunters in by helicopter in AK for hunting. By state law. Thats a good one in my opinion too, there are fewer and fewer pristine areas out there. I hope we don't loose more.

Jeff

lodgepole

I am a landowner and you can forget about trying to convince me 'cause it ain't gonna happen......if it's public land, it should be accessible to the public....PERIOD! The idea that someone can buy a relatively small piece of land and tie up access to hundreds or thousands of acres of public land borders on criminal in my opinion!

I second that.

GonHuntin if you dont have a problem with anyone who pleases crossing your land whenever they want thats your business. I have a big problem with it. My home is located there, my wife and grandkids are often there alone. My livestock and equipment are all over the place. Who will be there to see to it that only legitimate law abiding people use the government mandated easement you advocate?
What would be criminal is for the government to force me to leave my gate standing open and give the general public carte blanche to enter upon my homestead at will. I understand about public land being for public use but do we want to violate a person's right to private property in order to allow people to hunt or fish a particular piece of land? I think the right to be secure in your property trumps the general public's right to recreation. I am quite aware that those members of the general public who are not in my situation disagree and think me greedy and selfish, but if they were in my position they would think differently.
By the way a few people have approached me and asked for permission to cross my land, and after talking to them and deciding they were OK I granted it.

lodgepole

First, this issue is not about you or your personal situation, it's about the absolutely ridiculous idea that a private landowner should have the power to control access to PUBLIC land........

This shouldn't be an issue of anyone crossing your land, because you shouldn't have the right to block access! In other words, there should be an easement that you don't own......period! If such an easement existed, and you purchased land around the easement.....well, that is your decision.......it's nice that you have allowed a "few people" to access public land, but you should not have the power to make that decision.......it's not personal, you have every right to do as the law allows, I just think the law is WRONG........and I think the Government should either sell the land at market value, close it to ALL access (including you) or acquire an access easement, by force if necessary, for public use.......you shouldn't have a private playground at the expense of every tax paying US citizen.....and that is basically what you have.