Outdoor Life did a write up on a cartridge that was recently introduced. It's a .40 caliber straight wall cartridge with a case length of 1.65 inches which makes it a legal cartridge for deer hunting in cartridge restricted areas that limit hunters to using straight wall cartridges or cartridges of .35 caliber or greater with a case length between 1.16 and 1.8 inches (or both). It seems to fill a bit of a gap between the .350 legend and the .450 bushmaster (hits harder than the .350 legend, but has a flatter trajectory and less recoil than the .450 bushmaster) and would be adequate for elk and moose (which the .350 is not suited for).
I've been thinking about what I should get as far as a hunting cartridge for Indiana, and I was thinking about .350 legend but leaning towards .450 bushmaster. Now I want to see what kind of industry support this cartridge gets as it seems that it might have the best characteristics of both.
As a side note, it can use .40 caliber pistol bullets, though new bullets are being introduced with it that are specifically designed for usage in this cartridge. I imagine a 135 grain .40 S&W bullet being driven at 3000+ fps would be hell on a ground hog!
If you have the listed caliber restrictions for elk or moose I could see the usefulness. I'm not aware of any places that have those restrictions for el/moose but I haven't looked either. For deer I think it's a step backwards from the 350.
If you have the listed caliber restrictions for elk or moose I could see the usefulness. I'm not aware of any places that have those restrictions for el/moose but I haven't looked either. For deer I think it's a step backwards from the 350.
Outdoor Life did a write up on a cartridge that was recently introduced.
I think it is an answer in search of a question. Someone is trying to sell you guns that you don't need. I'm not aware of anywhere that has a huntable elk population that requires use of short straight wall cartridges. The .350 Legend is a better choice for deer. Is there a place that requires straight wall cartridges for hogs? If so, maybe that's an application. Otherwise .. meh, like I said, an answer in search of a question.
Making a cartridge under the limit of 1.8" just so it can be used in a AR-15 is plane stupid.....if the 400 Legend was 1.8" the limit for States that require it would be a much better cartridge....
I build my own 400 caliber cartridge been doing it for over 5 years its 1.8" long and shoots a 165 gr. Cutting Edge Bullet no problem getting 2900 fps ....
I pulled the trigger on the bushmaster. Ruger Go wild bolt gun. It shoots well and I have an accurate 250gr FTX bullet hand load that averages. 2397FPS. I cannot wait to hammer a deer with it this coming season. While other new offerings 360/400 are popping up, that matter is settled for me. The 450 is my huckleberry!
Unless the deer are bigger than you...get a 45-70.
Unfortunately, .45-70 is not legal for hunting deer because of the 1.8 inch case length thing. Even if thè perfectly legal 450 bushmaster has just as much range, and a rifle in .500 magnum (also legal) would have greater range.
Originally Posted by coyotewacker
I build my own 400 caliber cartridge been doing it for over 5 years its 1.8" long and shoots a 165 gr. Cutting Edge Bullet no problem getting 2900 fps ....
Why not just use a rifle chambered in 44 Mag? No reason to reinvent the wheel
Exactly. 44mag and 45colt and the like fit all the requirements for these restricted locations and like you say they're already available and have existed forever. Any whitetail out to 100-150yds is freezer bound.
The 400Legend is interesting. Like the 350Legend, intended for the AR15 platform, w/ all its constraints(but it'll be in XPR and RAR boIt rifles too). If you look at Starline Brass's website, you'll find cylindrical 7.62x39 brass. The 30 Short Russian case is about the largest you can use in a regular AR upper. Rebate the rim to 30Rem/10mm/6.8SPC dimensions, and you have the 400 Legend. The .422" bolt head diameter of the 6.8SPC provides stronger bolt locking lugs than the .447" rim diameter of the 7.62x39. And, like the original Norma10mm loadings, uses a just under 220gr bullet. W/ a COAL of 2.260", the 400 Legend should still feed from modified STANAG magazines but at reduced capacity. Other than the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowolf, the 400 Legend will have the 3rd greatest amount of muzzle energy available in the AR15 platform. Lots of potential for the small AR15 platform I'd say.
I'm curious why you folks think that the 350 would be better than the 400?
Genuine question since I haven't gotten into either caliber and the 400 is so new that there's hardly no real data about them except in gun rags.
With that said, I don't know why the 400 couldn't be a fine deer rifle.
Being devils advocate, with a 16 inch barrel and 155 gr pills, I am loading 10mm brush gun around 1770 fps average. Add with a longer case of the 400 I'm sure that with a carbine length barrel that the 10mm bullet could easily be pushed well beyond 2000 fps and get better than 30-30 ballistics without breaking a sweat.
Again, I haven't gotten into either of those new calibers so maybe I'm missing something, but there's a lot of folks happy with just 10mm performance on deer and bear. I don't see how adding more velocity and ft lbs on target would hardly be construed as a bad thing.
No, I don't see short straight wall cartridges ever performing better than most belted magnum cartridges or anything, but I don't see them being inadequate either.
That video doesn't fairly depict the 357 Maximum. In my 22" H&R it's running 2000 fps and there is room to go up. Just saying they old nearly forgotten gal can still run...
I'm curious why you folks think that the 350 would be better than the 400?
Genuine question since I haven't gotten into either caliber and the 400 is so new that there's hardly no real data about them except in gun rags.
With that said, I don't know why the 400 couldn't be a fine deer rifle.
Being devils advocate, with a 16 inch barrel and 155 gr pills, I am loading 10mm brush gun around 1770 fps average. Add with a longer case of the 400 I'm sure that with a carbine length barrel that the 10mm bullet could easily be pushed well beyond 2000 fps and get better than 30-30 ballistics without breaking a sweat.
Again, I haven't gotten into either of those new calibers so maybe I'm missing something, but there's a lot of folks happy with just 10mm performance on deer and bear. I don't see how adding more velocity and ft lbs on target would hardly be construed as a bad thing.
No, I don't see short straight wall cartridges ever performing better than most belted magnum cartridges or anything, but I don't see them being inadequate either.
Well been doing a hunt every year in a shotgun only now straightwall state for 30 years. And for those years I wanted a relatively flat shooting lower recoil deer rifle capable of 150- 200 yard shots available in a bolt action scoped rifle similar to my 7mm8 rifle I hunt with in Alabama and Florida. The 350 delivers that. In the big timber hill country where I hunt in Ohio a 75 yard shot is rare and considered a hail mary thru the brush. I also can find myself in NW Ohio in a stand or shooting house on a corner of a farm field and woods or hedge row where a shot might be as far as 150-200 yards. Last year I killed a big buck at just such a place at 190 yards. Dead as Elvis. Then killed a doe in the same spot and yardage a day later. Again dead as Elvis. Made a believer out of me.
I dont think that the 350 is any better deer killer than any of the other straight wall chamberings including the 400. It just meets my want better. My 7mm08 is not a better deer killer in Alabama than my 30-06 or 270 weatherby. It just meets my want better.
I might be interested in the 400 but the 350 I bought two years ago is working great for me. I have no problem with hunters in straightwall states having a few similar options just like the rest of us do in other states. Just my two cents.
Making a cartridge under the limit of 1.8" just so it can be used in a AR-15 is plane stupid.....if the 400 Legend was 1.8" the limit for States that require it would be a much better cartridge....
I build my own 400 caliber cartridge been doing it for over 5 years its 1.8" long and shoots a 165 gr. Cutting Edge Bullet no problem getting 2900 fps ....
The MSR market is pretty big, and growing. Ignoring it would be a mistake. Certainly it has enough power for deer, black bears, and hogs as it is.
Since I favor single-shots over ARs, and can tolerate lever-actions, the .360 would be my choice if I were headed to the Midwest.
When I lived in Michigan and had similar restrictions I used my Marlin 45/70 but I reloaded my ammunition and used cases that I had shortened to the legal length. It was a bit of a pain but it worked great. I did have to get my sizing die shortened and get a custom made Lee Factory crimp die. I used the Hornady 325 FTX with success on several Whitetail does.
Have over a dozen relatives who live and hunt in southern Michigan. They can’t agree on anything except eventually they all ended up using the 350 legend and are content. Took awhile for a couple older guys to let go of their Savage 220 slug guns but they came around.
I am surprised the big bores are coming back already. One bunch of deer hunters are going smaller , like .223 Rem. I know some states mandate stupid laws like case length and big bores but why?
I think the 400 Legend will be a popular cartridge.. not only in the restricted states .. but anyone that wants a lightweight carbine that wants a larger bore caliber.. for hunting in tree stands and in tbe woods and mountain the little cartridge with the .400 diameter 210-250 gr bullet has the potential to be really useful… basically will be chambered in every configuration as the 350 Legend .. I think it will be interesting with 225-250 grain LHCSWC designed bullets I think a Ruger Ranch Carbine with a 16 inch barrel would be great
Up close the 400 will out horsepower the 350, but over distance the 350 holds the edge. Also consider that the 400 will have more recoil and ammo/components will likely cost more. I’m sure they will sell some, the marketing in the gun industry has gotten very effective. They will also likely only produce ammo in 400 when the rest of us are trying to buy 308 or 30/06, forcing factory ammo buyers to purchase a rifle they can get ammo for.
We have been using the .350 Legend for deer in Iowa for the last 3 seasons. Have taken about 8 deer total so far. The .350 works great on deer sized game and I have been impressed as to the accuracy of the cartridge in the XPR bolt guns. Easy 1 inch groups at 100 yards. No deer has traveled more than 30 yards after the shot.
I can't hunt with an AR platform in Canada, so I'm not requiring a cartridge that fits that platform.
I have not looked much at the 400 Legend.
Between the 350 Legend and the 360 Buckhammer, I would go with the 360. Equal or better ballistics than the 350, 358" bullet compatible rather than the 350 355".
I also think that it will hold up well against the 400.
I have the 450 BM in a bolt gun. My handload is chrono'ed at 2400FP with 40 gr of Lil gun. 250gr FTX. I have a hold for 250 yards at that speed. It should put the good hard smack on a deer. I cannot wait to see the results.
do you know where you are?