For someone who wants to put together a 1 load, 1 bullet for every thing from deer to elk out of the 30-06. I generally see the 180 partition as highly recommended for elk out of the 30-06. It seems the tsx gets recommended in the 165-168 due to it's mono construction.

How does the 165 partition stack up to the 180? Is the 180 made "tougher" with a thicker partition, or is the only difference the weight, thus it can afford to shed more?

In deer sized animals I'm guessing the 165 might be a better fit, but does anyone have experience with the 165 partition on elk?

As an aside, what real-life range differences (velocity and drop) have those who've worked up 165 and 180 partition loads found?

Thanks,

JCM

jcm,

i'm sure that you'll get replies from guys who have shot a whole lot more elk than me, but...

i don't reckon that 15 gr bullet weight will make or break you either way...
having learned right here, on the fire, about the differences in construction between partitions of the same diameter, i gotta wonder if you might not be better off considering the 165 and the 200???

FWIW:

I would answer this question based upon shooting ability and terrrain.

180s are the standard. Don't leave them unless you have reason to do so.

165s shoot flatter, but unless you are likely to go beyond 300 yards, you might not get much benefit.

Thus, a guy on the dry side of the Cascades, with more open range might go 165, a guy on the coastal side (dense forest) might go 180s--better chance of an exit and blood trail in the think stuff, no need for super flat.


In the end though, we ar splitting hairs. Both kill stuff real dead, real well.

Choose one that shoots well in your rifle, practice a LOT and go hunting.

BMT

Thanks for the input.

200's aren't really in the running as they go (IMHO) beyond what is needed for the range of game.

If the construction is the same between the 2....which is really one of my major questions as johnw kinda hit on......then, BMT hit the important point with the shot distance and shooter's ability.

Assuming the shooter is up to it, at what range will the trajectory differences between the 165 and 180 really come into play?

Again, is the construction between the 2 the same, or is the 180 actually constructed "tougher" rather than just "heavier"? I don't know so I have to ask.

Thanks,

JCM

jcm,

i called nosler and asked the same question... the rear portion of the 150, 165, and the 180 are all the same... the change in construction comes with the 200, in which the partition is moved farther forward leaving a larger rear portion...
all else being equal, the 200 would logically be the pick for penetration in 30 cal...
once again, i'd not split hairs between the 165 and the 180, but i agree with bmt that the 180 is the standard, and i'd need reason to deviate from it..... john w

Thanks johnw. That answer's the construction question. So it appears that the 180 just has a little more frontal partition than the 165, but the rear partition is the same.

Thanks again,

JCM

BMT's reasons are sound and I believe he speaks from having elk experience as well.

I've hunted elk for as many years as I've hunted game and the 1st 3/4's of it has been with the 180gr. NP's out of a '06 for elk. The 180gr. seems to be the standard and since it falls pretty squarely between the 165 and 200 as the middle choice, it makes even more sense.

The 180's have very effectively taken some 14 or 15 bulls for me. They have never failed me in any way and many other dedicated elk hunters have had the same results. Some might say the 165's, when huntin' deer and not elk, makes more sense. Perhaps, but for one load in that one rifle, I'd rather go just a bit heavier than what I think appropriate for deer, if elk is also on the menu. My '06 loads are all loaded up with the 180 NP's and I'd feel totally comfortable grabbin' it for either deer or elk.

As has been said and is always the right answer, choose the bullet and weight that shoots best for you/your rifle, get a bunch of trigger time behind it......then kill stuff.

Good luck.

If we start the 165 grainer at 2900 fips and the 180 grainer at 2700 fips, the 165 grainer will drop 3 inches less at 400 yards (with both loads zeroed at 200). Also, at 400 yards the 165 grainer will be travelling 100 fips faster than the 180 grainer.

Personally, I wobble more than 3 inches at 400 yards, so the trajectory advantage is almost moot. Also, the 200 fips difference in velocity at the muzzle is reduced to a difference of 100 fips at 400 yards due to the higher BC of the 180 grainer, so that's not a big deal either.

The real difference to me is the difference in SD. The 165 grainer has an SD of .248, while the SD of the 180 grainer is .271. That is important to me, and becomes more important as the game gets larger.

Were I to choose between the two bullets for an all-purpose load, I would opt for the 180 grainer.

-

I agree with everything BigRedhead says.

If the trajectory difference between bullets is greater than you wobble - use the bigger bullet. The 180 grain Nolser Partition has always done what I've asked of it - and then some.

Thanks for all the info and thoughts. I'm settled on the 180's unless for some reason I can't get them to shoot.....which I've not had a problem getting anything to shoot with H4350 in mine....but I could be surprised.

300 will pretty much be max distance for me. The vast majority will be MUCH closer.

180 rules. Thanks again,

JCM

I like the 180 Partition so well in the 30-06 last time Nosler was selling their 180 NP's in 500 count lots I bought them... $125 as I recall. Also bought 7lbs of H4350 and 1000 Fed 210's to go with em... should be able to fill up an ark with that combo. My current 22" bbl'd M70 shoots them right at 2,800 fps with 57.5 gr's H4350... a bit faster than any other 30-06 I've had.

I like the 165s..and have reloaded both.

**Find which bullet your rifle shoots most accurately and go with it.
If they both shoot the same...consider bullet drop for your hunting distances and choose accordingly.

Either of the Nosler Partitions are quality bullets ..and, placed well, kill elk dead..even in a .300 Savage Lever action starting at 2450..:)I know..:) Jim

I had the same thought as you except mine was 25 years ago. My rifle picked the 180 grain bullet. Instead of the Nolser, I use a Hornady "interlock". Works like a dream on everything I've hunted----lots of elk, muleys, whitetail, bighorn sheep, antelope, mtn goat, mtn lion, a couple black bears & this a WY moose.
You can't go wrong with the 180 grain. My load is 56 grains of IMR 4350 & Winchester primers. Good hunting. CB

Amen to the 180 Hornady! Great bullet and agree, let your rifle choose.

Hey, I"m hijacking this info! I just bought a 30 06 and was pondering the same. I'm going 180. I"m slightly torn between the Nosler Partition and the Barnes MRX or Barnes TTSX....hairs to be split? Oh yeah...Primarily after (Mature) whitetail and possibly (fingers crossed) Elk....ah...if only..

I favor the 165g bullet myself. As a kid I remember the older hunters telling me to use 150grain on deer and 180 grain on elk. I think mainly because that's the choice that was available at the sporting good stores in the 60's.

When I started to reload and looked at BC and retained energy downrange, the 165g seemed the winner. And as a skinny young man in the early 70's the 165g offered slightly less recoil ( or at least I thought so) The biggest Bull elk I've ever shot was with a 165g Nosler Solid Base out of a 30-06. I just never saw the need for the 180. Especially with todays premium bullets.

I now use Barnes 165g TSX in both my 30-06 and 300WSM. I've killed a bunch of elk with the 165g TSX out of the 300WSM. But I think it would make an excellent bullet weight for a 30-06 for both deer and elk, in ethier the Partition or TSX.

i don't use NP's, but in the TSX the 180 ranges almost as good as the 168gr, I like the extra bullet weight just in case especially when moose hunting with an 06

MPH, in the TSX line I use 165/168's in the 30-06... since they penetrate as well as the 180 Partition I really can't see a need for the 180 TSX.

I had to make this decision last fall before going elk hunting as I was taking a .30-06 for the first time. I chose 165g North Forks and dropped 2 cow elk with them. The ranges weren't very far (about 25 yards, if that, and a lasered 126 yards) but the cows dropped when hit. Both got back up and were immediately dropped again with another North Fork when they did so.

I use 180g North Forks in my .300 Win Mag and will likely stick with the 165's in the .30-06.

i like one gun, one load for everything. i shoot an 06' and use 180gr partitions. that combo has worked well on elk and deer this and previous years, so i won't change. i also like the simplicity. of course, i suspect a fellow could do the same with 165gr.

I started off shooting 180 grain Silvertips in factory loads at Texas whitetails and Colorado mulies in the very early 1960s. Someone in the group always had an elk tag in our Colorado camp and in those days, if you shot an elk, you had to go to town and buy another tag in case someone else got the same opportunity. (I never got the opportuntity.)

When I started reloading, I shot 150 Partitions (this was about 1967) and they were sudden death on both whitetails and mulies. Later, I switched to 168 grain Sierra Internationals which not only grouped better in my rifle, but also killed everything DRT. Then, as always happens, Sierra changed their bullet and they didn't work so well on game anymore.

When I could actually afford to draw an elk tag (I was a poor undergraduate and then graduate student for several eons), I began loading the 165 partitions. For about twenty years, every animal I shot from coyotes up to bull elk and nilgai antelope were taken with a .30-06 and 165 Partion handloads--this included a lot of animals taken on herd reduction and research permits--many, many more than most hunters shoot in a lifetime.

If I had to go back to using the '06 for everything, I would once again use a premium bullet weighing 165-168 grains. If elk were the only game, 180s or 200s would be the choice. By the same token, if I just hunted deer (whitetails, mulies, Coues), the 150s would be my choice. FWIW...

I've watched friends use the 165 Partition on a fair amount of stuff from elk down through black bear and deer,and for quite some time we could not recover any,as the penetrated very well and mostly exited the smaller stuff completely.A buddy used them on two elk and they exited those as well.I've used them from a 300 Win Mag started at 3200 on bucks in Saskatchewan,and they blew on through.For those who prefer pass-throughs on deer-size stuff, they work well.

I sat on the sideline and watched my brother shoot a big 5x5 bull elk at app 300 yards from a 30/06. We recovered the bullet from the offside shoulder area, under the hide, the base sorta squashed a bit.I would not hesitate to use the 165 on anything up through elk size.

I also will praise Big Red's post and logic, but would ultimately choose whatever bullet weight proved most accurate in my ".30/06" if that was my goto rifle.

The 165 Partition is indeed no slouche, and the .30 cal 180 Pt's have proven themselves in countless elk harvests.

It was only a couple years before Finn Aaggard's death that I discovered him as a writer to Wolfe's Rifle and Reloading magazines. I recall that once Aaggard wrote an article that he praised VERY LIBERALLY the prowess of the .30/06 with 180 grain boollits, with its ever-present .271 SD.

That article is when I started paying [profound] attention to sectional density, as I also recall that AAggard was [partially] commenting in that article that he'd recommended to one of his son's that that one particular load could take ANYTHING in North America - that wasn't too inclined to eat people ......

I too have also thought about what ONE bullet I'd use for that ultimate one-load scenario in the '06, and also the .308 Win.

The 165iver certainly makes most sense in the .308 - for the sake of this thread. However, for example, if I was going Mtn Goat or Sheep hunting in the outback of Alaska, NWT, Yukon, BC, etc. - a good accurate .30/06 165-load could handle everything, including GRIZZ protection.

But shoot what works best in your rifle!

That's the spirit!



Casey

30-06 and a Partition... all the rest is just "want" and not "need"! :-)

-jeff

Have never really HUNTED Elk but have done quite a bit of Kudu shooting in Africa. My standard for many years load for the 06 has been the 220gr Partition. It shoots particularly well in my gun and doesn't have any real drawbacks I can see. The advantage is great in Africa more so than here in the US but I wonder why heavier bullets are not used more here in the states. It has been my habit for many years to load the heaviest for caliber load. I have no real reason for it I just do it for big and small calibers alike.

I've not used the 30-06 in Africa, but I've used the 300 Win. Mag. extensively. I've never used anything heavier than 180 gr. bullets in the 300 WM, and I don't believe that anything heavier is necessary for any sort of plainsgame hunting. If I ever do use the '06 in Africa, I'll likely load 180 Partitions.

For elk hunting, I wouldn't have any qualms abouts loading well-constructed 165s in the 30-06, and it fact that's the bullet weight I started out with in the 30-06 some 35 years ago. I works extremely well for mule deer, blacktails, and elk. Even so, I consider the 180 gr. Nosler Partition to be THE ideal all-around bullet for the 30-06, and with it you can hunt anywhere in the world, and for everthing that you'd ever use a 30-06 to hunt.

Most 30-06s I've worked with would push 180s out of the barrel at somewhere between 2750 and 2800 fps., and I always zero 180 gr. '06 loads for 200 yds. dead-on.

AD