Just curious.
I don't. I HAVE, once, when it was the only shot I had. It worked fine other than losing some meat.
I can certainly see how it makes sense in some situations. Like if you don't care about the meat, or if the critter is located such that if it went 50 yards it could be a real problem. Mountain goats... bears... dangerous game come to mind. Perhaps elk.
But deer? Not me... I try to tuck it right behind the shoulder.
What say you?
Idiot, read again.
"The point being (since I obviously have to spell it out for Jerry's kids) is if you put a GOOD bullet where it belongs [bleep] dies."
WHERE it belongs means heart, lungs etc. I suppose I could type
Drill the shoulders, CNS, lungs, liver with a good bullet and critter dies. The ever loving point is that you need to put a bullet where it belongs, be it behind the should if you like or in the shoulder as I like.
I dont purposely try to shoot the critter in the shoulder but if that happens so be it.
I would much rather have a dead deer on my hands with some wasted meat than a wounded deer running around with a poor shot on my behalf.
I aim for off side shoulder. Has always worked for me.
Through the shoulders with bullits.
Double lung them with broadheads.
Back edge of the shoulder where the bones V aka top of the heart and both lungs.
where else would one shoot - neck?
I tend to try to hit both shoulders,but it is often not where I hit them because they are often moving or in thick cover or dim light or all of the above.
Britt
A bud shot a deer in the Cheeri O once.......killed him too.
I am for the heart, no matter the angle or how the bullet gets there, shoulder, bone or butt.
I generally have to Cheerio them because they are generally running straight away the moment I'm spotted.
Wonder why?
![[Linked Image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Blue.jpg)
I generally have to Cheerio them because they are generally running straight away the moment I'm spotted.
Wonder why?
Now that is kinda funny, If you think about it.
Honestly?
Diarrhea of the mouth; constipation of the brain....
I will but won't if I can help it.
BCR
Shooting slugs here in Iowa, I shoot right behind the shoulder.
shoulder or behind the shoulder suits me, depending on the offer, prefer behind the shoulder, but there is precious little meat on a deers shoulder..Neck or head is good if circumstances are such to make the shot easily..
I will also take a going South shot if need be, its a deadly shot and puts them down in a hurry as it actually destroys a lot more stuff...As to ruiningn the taste of the meat with a gut shot or going away shot, thats just pure BS, wash them out within a reasonable time with water or snow and they are fine. Heat is the killer.
Not if I can get a clear shot at the neck.
I like the lungs. Good sausage meat on the shoulder. miles
I generally have to Cheerio them because they are running straight away whilst I chamber a round.
Sometimes I have to Cheerio them twice because I only shoot a .22 centerfire.
Sometimes I Cheerio them just to watch them flip over frontways, if I'm using a really big caliber.
And sometimes I just shoot them, and yell, "Cheerio!"
The Malice between you two is eternal- TFF
Oh, I forgot to add- I have seen more capes ruined by this and neck shots than anything else. Too many bullet come to pieces or blow bone chips out the far side. I don't "try" for this shot but occasionally it happens!
I have had good luck with "hump" shots on elk.
I haven't aimed at the shoulder since I started butchering my own meat years ago and hate trimming the bloodshot shoulders. We're kind of particular about what goes in the meat pile and all that blood between the layers of muscle doesn't help salvage much meat. My pick of calibers has changed as well, the fast 270 loads and the like have given way to the 250 Savage, 257 Bob, and at one time even cast bullets out of the 30-30. Contemplating digging out the old 50 cal sidelock muzzle loader and round balls again. Maybe I can still see those open sights.
Yes. I have had very little issue with ruined meat, especially with the TSX. I little bit of lost meat is well worth the instant fold when hit. I don't care for animals bolting after being double lunged.
I don't mind that 50-100 yd. run from shooting the double lung. A good blood trail makes it easy. miles
I dont purposely try to shoot the critter in the shoulder but if that happens so be it.
I would much rather have a dead deer on my hands with some wasted meat than a wounded deer running around with a poor shot on my behalf.
+1
My prefered shot is the heart - but have shot necks, shoulders, etc. Still prefer the heart shot.
I am a fan of the high shoulder shot... top of the lungs, maybe stun the spine enough for them to fall on the spot.. have done it to 2-3 deer and they all were DRT!
I'll take a front shoulder shot with a TSX any day of the week but prefer to miss it with a non-TSX. I try not to hit the rear shoulders regardless of type...
I have no qualms on pinning both shoulders. Do it with rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader. My tracking jobs usually amount to marking the spot where the deer was standing.
I'll try to line up on the of side shoulder if I'm shooting at a angle. If a broadside shot, I normally aim behind the shoulder on deer. I shoot for vitals and most of the time I don't care what parts the bullet travels through to get there. Elk and bear I like to get at least one shoulder, they don't seem to go as far after the shot that way.
Just My opinion--- Lung shot. Larger vital target that a missed placed shot has more chance of doing it's job. Rib cage meat loss is nothing. A poor shot on the front shoulder and a deer on three legs can go for miles, and then some. Web
I dont have a problem shooting the shoulders. I dont have a problem not shooting the shoulders.
Kinda depends on the shot that is presented IMO
Since I don't generally have to worry about "hunters" stealing a deer they didn't shoot or toothy critters who come to a shot like a dinner bell or pit vipers which threaten with love bites...I'll take the heart/lung shot (behind at least one shoulder, if possible). I really can't imagine a more inept tracker than me, and I still manage to find my venison without undue trouble. (There have been rare occasions, however, when it took me up to an hour...sometimes requiring me to "walk grids".)
Go in just behind or just in front. 1Minute
That's about my thinking too, 1minute. Going in behind one shoulder and out in front of the other, or vice-versa, sure makes them twist and go down too.
We don't get to shoot very many deer here. And I don't like to buy meat at the store. Maybe the meat means more to me than some, in fact I'm SURE it does, but since I started hunting 8 or 9 years ago, my goal has been to shoot vitals while staying out of the meat.
Ribs have meat, so unless you are shooting them in the eyesocket it don't ring. Granted less meat, but still meat.
I tend to grind the shoulders and since I've never not killed several deer in a year, grinding the shoulders ain't an issue. Course I save the meat from the ribs also.
Shoot the damn deer wherever the bullet will kill it.
Eyeball stew is the chit!
grin
The last buck I shot through the rib cage the amount of meat loss wouldn't fill a tea cup. The last one I shot through the front shoulders filled many. Web
What bullet? The 'stuff' still grinds.
My choice is 165 or 180 --.308 Web
The Natives could care less.
Copper, lead it's all tasty.
TFF
I ruin a lot of meat, a lot of the time. Chit happens. I don't like to ruin capes on nice stuff though! I saw a pronghorn shot on the point of the shoulder with a 150 grain SST from a 300 mag. The near side shoulder was a mess. A hole the size of a cantaloupe at the entry! Yikes.
I once shot a nice coues deer near Ruby on the Mex border. I hit him going away hard. I ruined MOST of all 4 quarters! This was an inaugural 165 grain Ballistic Tip. Bad bullet!!! That same season I hit one in the neck as a finisher (from 30 yds) I blew his head plumb off. Only time I have ever done that. At least I didn't waste any meat on that shot.
We typically just make a dorsal cut and pull the hinds and shoulders off the coues deer as well as the backstraps. Ribs and T-loins get left for the vultures.
I've always said that yotes gotta eat to....
Dober
You mean you guys pick out a specific deer in the herd to shoot at????
Meat loss is of zero consequence to me so my choices on shot placement are unlimited.
Saving meat would be the last thought on my mind.
I worry about meat/fur after the critter is down.
Travis
What is really needed for these stinky Columbia Blacktails is some kind of a pump that would pump marinade into them, while displacing the blood. At least then they'd be good eating, and WORTH taking a careful shot at; so you wouldn't just pump all your marinade out onto the ground, out some big hole. I'd be willing to pack a gallon of marinade and a little hand pump; and take the time to stitch it in place, if it would work.
It'd be like a small doctor's kit---we could call it SUTURE SELF.
That right there is FUNNY!
For deer I try to shoot a little behind the shoulder.
For elk I make sure I dont shoot nearside shoulder.
But that said, a good % of hunters would have no problem with a shoulder shot even on a moose.
I hunt public land with a lot of pressure, so I don't like animals getting out of sight after being shot. I like to take at least one shoulder.
T-loins get left for the vultures.
The vultures are getting the best chunks of meat on the whole deer.
FWIW if given a perfect broadside presentation I like to shoot deer just above the point/elbow of the shoulder. This takes out the plumbing entering the top of the heart and destroys both lungs. I like to eat the heart if possible and in my experience a direct hit to the heart often results in a jump straight up in the air a 40 yard or more dash.A shot just above the heart that destroys the aorta and minces the lungs often puts them down much sooner.
Jeff Copoer's "school solution" at Gunsite was to split the forelegs with the vertical crosswire, and hold one-third of the way up the body with the horizontal crosswire.
The exact parts taken out vary with target angle, but mostly it is a lung shot.
jim
I hunt deer in thick pine woods so I usually shoulder shoot. If, I am shooting the small does we have, & the shot is close, under 75 yds., I shoot for the head or neck. I almost always shoot everything in the shoulders with premium bullets. Unlike, the hunting shows, I work the bolt fast for a follow up shot. I like them dead. I started hunting deer in the late 50's & only lost one, a nice buck 2 years ago. Must have been to far forward since I found many pieces of bone, lots of blood & 2 spots were the deer lay down. Finally lost in a swamp.
I shoot through whatever is in the way to the vitals. Since animals are rarely standing perfecty broadside that usually means a shoulder either going in or out. I've got no issue with this, and they usually drop quicker that way too. Of course that all changes when I use a sharp stick.
Whether or not to drive a bullet through the shoulders seems to be a perennial question. I recently read a book published half a decade before Winchester introduced the .270, and the recommendations on shot placement for deer mirror those of a study conducted in SC almost three-quarters of a century later.
Recommended shot placement on deer in 1920:
First let me say that I have never known an
animal to go down instantaneously and stay
down unless hit in brain or spine, and these two
present such small marks that it is unwise in
ordinary circumstances to try for them. Better
to try to break the power of locomotion, the
shoulders, and if we do not manage to totally
disrupt the bony formation our bullets will pass
through the thorax which contains the heart and
lungs.
Recommended shot placement on deer in 1990:
So what shot placement is the best. Neck shots worked well in this study, but they can be problematic because the target area is very small and there is a risk of wounding associated with the target. Potential problems include a shot to the esophagus or mandible. Also, spine shots can be ruled out as a recommenced shot because few shots are consciously directed at the spine. In other words, most spine shots result from shots that miss their mark high and incidentally hit the spine.
Based on the data collected in this study we feel that the best shot placement for deer is the shot directed at the shoulder. Traveling an average of only 3 yards, deer shot in the shoulder traveled significantly less distance than deer shot in the heart, lungs, or abdomen. Also, with such a short distance of travel, deer shot squarely in the shoulder did not generally leave the hunter's sight. In this study, the broadside shoulder shot essentially gave results similar to what most hunters expect from a neck shot. Presumably the broadside shoulder shot works well because it strikes part of the heart and or lungs which itself is a mortal blow. However, a shot through the scapula damages the brachial plexus which the central nervous system thereby rendering the animal immobile. It knocks the animal out and it never regains consciousness. Also, the shoulder is a very large target offering room for error; a high shot hits the spine, a low shot the heart and a shot to the rear hits the lungs.
We don't get to shoot very many deer here. And I don't like to buy meat at the store. Maybe the meat means more to me than some, in fact I'm SURE it does, but since I started hunting 8 or 9 years ago, my goal has been to shoot vitals while staying out of the meat.
So you've been hunting 9 years, get to kill 1 maybe 2 deer per year, and I'm sure there were years you weren't successful. So let's be generous and give you 9 deer total lifetime. And yet here you are spouting information on where the best place to shoot deer is? That's [bleep] priceless.
Yeah Jeff, I will blow the running gear out from under a Deer in a second or any other big game animal.
I'm not going to think, I might waste some meat. If you want to learn how to make efficient kills on wild animals, you must get your mind right. You have to become a killer.
Where I learned to hunt( I am still learning), in Northern Maine and New Hampshire, the success rate on ANY deer was maybe 15%(much less on mature bucks).The country is akin to the Pacific NW with huge blocks of remote forest and low deer dendisties.
The notion that you could pick and choose shoulders or lungs in the limited ,fleeting opportunities up there is just laughable, and if you want A deer at all, you better shoot, fast, at whatever is offered because if you are really picky with your shot selection, you are gonna grow old,and never kill a deer at all.
I am jealous of those who get so many deer-shooting opportunities that they can wait for the things to stand just right and pick their shots before they shoot. Course, you could shoot up a whole ham on a single big Maine buck and still have more meat left over than with two of those little old Pacific NW blacktails
!
SamO: The last deer I nailed was a real screw up on my part. I was aiming down at almost a 70 degree angle with obviously not much of the lower torso available. Don't know how I did it, but I hit high in the shoulder broadside and ran a 7 mm slug the full length of the right loin. Sad because the remaining meat was some of the finest tasting venison I've ever put on the table.
As far as meat retention goes, If I am close and there's no trophy potential, I'll try to rip the head off just below the jaw bones.
Yes. First choice. Usually instant death when done right. Still dead quickly if off a little. Seen it work to many times to think any thing else.
Battue
We don't get to shoot very many deer here. And I don't like to buy meat at the store. Maybe the meat means more to me than some, in fact I'm SURE it does, but since I started hunting 8 or 9 years ago, my goal has been to shoot vitals while staying out of the meat.
So you've been hunting 9 years, get to kill 1 maybe 2 deer per year, and I'm sure there were years you weren't successful. So let's be generous and give you 9 deer total lifetime. And yet here you are spouting information on where the best place to shoot deer is? That's [bleep] priceless.
jds44,
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you have your head up your a$$. In addition to being flat out wrong on all counts.
Smelly up there, jds, or are you used to it?
I prefer a double lung, but there is usually some angle involved & that has me hitting offside shoulder most of the time. If I were needing to DRT, Bone would be crunched with the TSX's (.257,.284 & .308, so far) though they work VERY well on the lungers too.
Jeff Copoer's "school solution" at Gunsite was to split the forelegs with the vertical crosswire, and hold one-third of the way up the body with the horizontal crosswire.
The exact parts taken out vary with target angle, but mostly it is a lung shot.
jim
I am not a huge Cooper fan, but that sounds like fast effective method for shot placement that would be hard to screw up, and doesn't cause over thinking the shot, like many tend to do.
Let's hear it then Bwana Jeff, how many deer have you killed in those 8 or 9 years to be such an expert? I'm guessing it ain't very many and that's why you continually spout the nonsense you do.
You aren't worth the breath, jds44.
PS - grow up!
T-loins get left for the vultures.
The vultures are getting the best chunks of meat on the whole deer.
Yeh, but the T-loins on a coues whitetail buck are about the same size as a Sabrett Hotdog!
F&S
Toltec, you are going to need to buy me a subscription to that rag <g>. Or convince me to get more haircuts.
PM sent.
Break schit, at the shot, and stuff dies.
But, we've had this conversation.....
Preferably, I shoot moose (they are a deer, right?) somewhere in the CNS. DRN! But that is generally in thick chit. I take the "best" shot that I can get that will most certainly secure the game, with the least meat damage. Circumstances make this a variable scale. Basically, I take the first, most lethal, most fastest put-down shot that I can get. I might wait a bit for the shot, or I might not, depending on circumstances. Shoulder shots are 3 or 4 down the lane....generally speaking. They tend to ruin meat - and on moose, I've not found them that effective. I prefer CNS, or boiler room (behind the shoulder) shots, but if I need to take the shoulder-breaking shot, so be it...
Caribou, (also a deer) live in open country - Most shots are through both lungs, just behind the shoulders. They ain't going far (neither would moose) but I'm sure of finding caribou within a couple hundred yards on open tundra or alpine. And seeing any bears that might be on them (Hey- it happened once!
)
I don't understand how a small, thin-skinned animal can create two pages of debate (with the option of a few more pages of debate).
Some folks just can't stand simple...
Where I learned to hunt( I am still learning), in Northern Maine and New Hampshire, the success rate on ANY deer was maybe 15%(much less on mature bucks).The country is akin to the Pacific NW with huge blocks of remote forest and low deer dendisties.
The notion that you could pick and choose shoulders or lungs in the limited ,fleeting opportunities up there is just laughable, and if you want A deer at all, you better shoot, fast, at whatever is offered because if you are really picky with your shot selection, you are gonna grow old,and never kill a deer at all.
I am jealous of those who get so many deer-shooting opportunities that they can wait for the things to stand just right and pick their shots before they shoot. Course, you could shoot up a whole ham on a single big Maine buck and still have more meat left over than with two of those little old Pacific NW blacktails
!
+1 Bob.
Those that have never hunted here don't understand.
This isn't meant to admonish anyone who uses a differnt method,or to try to sway minds. Just the way I do it. I usually hunt where there is relativley little hunter pressure on public land and I quit hunting nasty rugged country years ago. So putting them down quickly is irrelevent to me.I always try for double lung shot, although I have nicked a few shoulders at times. Whether it is a humongus trophy animal or a meat deer, my main focus is to kill the animal with as less meat destruction as I can.I am very fussy about what meat goes in my freezer and I find that although some will grind up a blood shot shoulder and call it good meat, to me it is not very good.I see no sense in texas heart shots or taking shots at any angle presented just to put an animal on the ground. I don't have enough ego tied up in it to kill an animal at all cost
Although I have never used a TSX or other similar bulet, and probably they do not yield as much destruction as a std cup and core,I find it impossible to belive that they do not cause blood shot meat in a shoulder shot. Just from the hydrostatic shot alone and bone fragments,I would guess a substantial amount is present.
Although I have always been an elk hunter primarily, a deer tag or two is always in my pocket. Where I hunt the deer are exceptinally good eating, and when I am fortunate enough to draw a tag in the corn producing areas of eastern CO,the deer that live on corn all summer are outstanding fare.
I consider killing those deer as I would a finished beef and I sure would not want to waste a front quarter or two. Elk are about the same. I hunt where I see a substantial amount of elk and can afford to let one walk if shot presentation is not quite right. I have killed enough of both critters that I don't need to kill anymore to satisfy my ego, but I do like the meat.
You aren't worth the breath, jds44.
PS - grow up!
From that response, I'm guessing I must be pretty close to the mark.
JDK:When I kill a buck in Northern Maine, I call EVERYONE!!
Hell, when I SEE a buck in Northern Maine, I talk about it for months
I've been trying to take deer with a blue ball (g) bat with head shots. I cannot afford to waste any precious meat.
I've gotten so good at not wasting any meat that nothing has died in the process...in other words: Shoot deer where they need to be hit. Your duty is to kill them, period.
If your that damn selective you ain't gonna have ANY meat and little grounds for claiming your shot selection is superior when you won't settle for anything else.
Your pretty persnickety for claiming to be curious.
Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge
You aren't worth the breath, jds44.
PS - grow up!
From that response, I'm guessing I must be pretty close to the mark.
Ahh quit...You'll make him blue....
But deer? Not me... I try to tuck it right behind the shoulder.
What say you?
I have developed a habit of putting the horizontal cross hairs about mid-chest level, and the vertical cross hair between the front legs (from any angle).
But if I decide to shoot I don't take much time, otherwise the situation could change unfavorably and quickly.
I get really get uptight watching these guys on TV waiting for a perfect shot. I remember seeing one who had what I would have considered a perfect shot, and just because the deer was walking he bleeted in an attempt to stop it, and instead scared it off. I don't feel I can afford that kind of crap.
I have read a lot of guys talking about ruining meat. But I would rather eat steak than shoulder anyway. That is basically chili or stew meat anyway.
You aren't worth the breath, jds44.
PS - grow up!
From that response, I'm guessing I must be pretty close to the mark.
jds,
I'll waste a little breath on you after all. 16 deer. Various shot angles and calibers and bullets. One right through the shoulder, others that have nicked the shoulder going in or going out.
From what the shoulder hits and nicks have shown me, and because of my love for venison and the fact that I don't buy red meat at the store, I have decided that personally, I will avoid shooting the shoulder
whenever possible.
Now what in the heck is so upsetting about that, that it makes you get your panties all in a wad and come barging in here like a whiney little baby? Can't you handle a little reasonable debate among adults? Seriously, can't you? Is your whole game just to toss insults and act superior? Sure seems like it.
There's a place you can hang out, with other people JUST LIKE YOU, if all you have to offer to a discussion is insults... oh wait... you are a moderator there. What a surprise!
Disdainfully,
-jeff
You asked the question and when people who've killed that many deer in 1 or 2 seasons reply with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, you chime in with your vast experience.
What bullet did you shoot that one deer in the shoulder with? If it was standard cup & core, like the Game King, then the shoulder was probably blown all to hell. An example of one doesn't mean squat. Shoot a dozen or so in the shoulder with a really good bullet, like the TSX, with anything from the .223 up to a .308 and see what happens. They'll drop pretty much in their tracks and you'll be able to eat almost up to the bullet hole. Win/win.
Course Steelhead's said the same thing to you about a thousand times and it still doesn't sink in, so I don't expect it to now either.
NO, if the animal needs to be DRT, its CNS or nothing.
Oh,BTW if its simply a meat shot, its a head shot 9 out of 10 times for me.
JorgeI.
"Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge "
Not flaming you here,but I am curious with that statment as to why you kill animal then? Horns ,bragging rights, ego or?
If some of you guys think the front shoulder is just stew or chili meat, you haven't tasted a good corn fed deer then
I am more inclined to take a shoulder with an MZ vs a centerfire... to help the bullet expand and fragment... but thats only on larger game, as I don't have many miles with MZ kills so far...
Front shoulders are good meat!
Muzzle loaders work well with shoulder shots also,I do have the miles....
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I am for the heart, no matter the angle or how the bullet gets there, shoulder, bone or butt.
+1
I am strictly a boiler room man less wasted meat and chit don't run far when the engine is blown.
...Although I've killed deer with neck or brain shots, I've avoided those shots for many years now, preferring by far that the animal experiences as complete a bleed out as possible (far better eating quality). The shot that I've settled on after forty seasons is the ribcage/lung shot just behind the front shoulder. This shot kills FAST, zero blood pressure very quick, is a large target too. A slight miss low takes the heart out, a miss high can disrupt the spinal connections.....
.....Why ruin perfectly nutritious meat when the shot through the 'boiler room' wastes near nothing between the ribs, provides a very humane kill,a large target area, and doesn't pollute the flesh with toxic lead. Besides all that, old 'cactus' Jack O'Connor recommended the behind the shoulder shot as the best bet for hunters, and Jack knew a bit about hunting!
I should preface this by saying I would definitly take a shoulder shot on a deer, but not as a first choice.
I feel somewhat differently about elk. I tend to agree with writer/guide Gary Hubbell below, (with the exception that if I was using a really big gun I'd take an elk shoulder if that was the shot I had).
3). A shoulder shot is a poor shot. This fall, two of my hunters wounded and never recovered two elk that were shot in the shoulder. Unfortunately, I wish I could say that it was a rare occasion. It�s not. Aim behind the shoulder so that you hit the lungs and heart instead. Though you can indeed break the shoulder with a shoulder shot, many times it is not lethal and a wounded elk can cover a lot of miles on three legs.
My personal experience with shoulder shots on elk has been bad. We were lucky to get both of the following. I shattered a shoulder blade on a large cow but the bullet did not pass through. A couple years later my brother had his first shot bullet deflect on the shoulder of a large bull and follow the leg downward exiting the hoof, never striking the vitals. Both of these required follow up shots.
It's more than just that though. Pick up an elk bone and it feels so heavy and dense that you could drive a nail with it. It seems like that provides ample opportunity for a bullet to deflect. On the bone pile at my property it seems like elk bones take years longer to decompose compared to cattle or deer.
I guess another thing that influences my opinion is that it seems like every year you hear of someone getting a square hit on an elk and then having it run off. This seems to be one of the most common themes in elk hunting. I gotta think that this shoulder deflection phenomenon is a big part of that.
He also shot a thing or two before Nosler Partitions were created (J.O'C); soft bullets at soft stuff.
Now I hear all of this wasted meat (muscle) B.S.. You guys are all trying to hit the heart right? The only way to disrupt spinal connections is to hit the spine, which hits the backstrap (yes it goes between the shoulder blades, not the shoulder knuckle). If you blow up the heart you have "wasted meat". Yes, I do eat heart AND I shoot shoulders (knuckle). I don't shy away from lung shots either, but immediate stops have occurred most often with shoulder shots. But this has more to do with being silly than dropping an animal now isn't it?
Said another way, I don't cry when I can't collect the heart; I don't cry when there is a hole through the shoulder joint either.
I assume most here process their deer, but I'm sure not everyone does either. If you are not a "meat waster" then you must process your own? Have fun grinding tendons fellas, or making steaks out of that stuff or making sure your "butcher" doesn't waste anything.
Hard to kill stuff without a hole in it somewhere when shooting a gun. Pretty easy to get plenty of meat by doing it yourself too. I have no qualms about where you think is the best place to shoot something; its the whole wasted meat crap that seems silly.
On that note lets ban Ballistic Tips; silly ain't it?
I suppose breaking wing bones on birds is out of the question now too? Gonna have to start aiming for lungs and hoping the pellets don't deflect..the wasted meat.. all those little holes......This hunting stuff is VERY complicated.
I kinda like the ban BT idea.....
And I disrupt the CNS without touching backstrap...OR heart. Pretty friggin easy to hit a grapefruit sized target or larger at deer ranges... and I don't eat brain so thats the least waste for me...
I'm not hopping on here to flame anyone but a question was raised, and I am offering a solicitied opinion. I hunt some of the same country Jeff O does for blacktail. Shot selection here problably no different than anywhere else...except the PNW west side is thick, really thick and it rains and rains and rains and rains (ad infinitum, ad nauseum). Given the opportunity for a perfect broadside I'll take the high scapula (CNS) every time. If not, I'm looking for the shot that will break the animal down quickly (offside shoulder quartering away, on side quartering to) it's not just other hunters here with our generous public holdings, but a blacktail in the rain,rain rain, rain, rain, can crawl under a root wad only to be found by the yotes. And really there just aint that much meat on a scapula.
My $.02, and you get what you pay for...
Charlie
P.S.
Lots of folks "hunt" here and haven't killed sixteen deer in a lifetime, good hunters here get one buck and maybe one doe ...if they draw doe tags, in a season. Just da' facts here...
Not if I have an opportunity to tuck one up tight behind the leg. Of course last fall the deer turned and behind the leg became one in the ham. Dropped it straight down, though, and made a mess in the chest cavity.
I've never hunted with anyone who is capable of ALWAYS putting the bullet exactly where he wants it. I doubt I ever will. That said, in a perfect world if I'm hunting for antlers a shoulder shot is always prefered while I try to avoid it if I'm hunting for meat. Nonetheless, we seldom hunt in a perfect world. If I am shooting a deer for his head gear, I take the first shot I'm presented with and take it as quickly as possible. I do try to avoid the shoulder on meat deer, but don't always succeed in that endeavor.
Use a good bullet and crunch shoulders...
P.S.
Lots of folks "hunt" here and haven't killed sixteen deer in a lifetime, good hunters here get one buck and maybe one doe ...if they draw doe tags, in a season. Just da' facts here...
Great post, Charlie.. not sure about what the last part means so let me elaborate a bit.
To be clear, I am not a great hunter of blacktail.
I am a
decent hunter of blacktail, and a great practicer of the kind of "social engineering" that can lead to things like, oh, access to really good private land.
Until a couple years ago, you could put in for an "additional" tag that was only available in a few areas of the state. Lucky for me, one of my honeyholes in in that area and even better, lots of folks didn't put in for it because the unit is mostly tied up in private hands. I think I've drawn 3 additional tags and filled 2 of them.
Now, there is no "additional" tag in Oregon, and we put into a lottery for a doe tag to go with our OTC blacktail buck tag. If a guy is half smart and puts in within an hour of Eugene, he can consistantly draw a doe tag. It's actually a spike/doe tag.
I have some good public land spots figured out, and I will share them (privatly) with any serious hunter who wants to hunt with me in Oregon.
I have drawn 17 tags from the state of Oregon, and filled 16 of them. Some were dumb luck, some I'm real proud of.
-jeff
Should say, I've drawn 17 DEER tags and filled 16. Damn elk have my number. I don't want to talk about elk tags. :-)
Heart shot or just above if I can. Saves meat and on the prairie it doesn't matter if they stagger a few yards. My first and last true shoulder shot on a smallish doe with a 6mm put her "dead right there" but ruined a front quarter and a little more. Convenient because she dropped at a fence corner we could drive up to but I missed the meat.
Couple of things. I hunt both private and public land in TX. Either one you can generally pick your shots pretty easy. IE I can still take head shots. Public lands I've not had a shot past about 60 yards yet.
I take 4-5 deer a year on average so the CNS shots have worked well.
As to a head shot not bleeding a deer out... there is always a pretty good pool of blood size of a #3 washtub around the wound on the ground.
Also I've never consumed a deer that has not sat in a cooler of ice at least 7 days... fresh meat, even backstraps, is not good unless aged/ bled more. Regardless of lung or CNS shots.
I can understand those that need to take any shot, I have situations that I would do that also, and thats why I err on the large side caliber/bullet wise just in case...
Wasted meat is an issue, its not the end all, but when one can prevent it, I do. I still remember my sister in law shooting all her deer in both shoulders with 243s... they were so torn up that even hamburger was nasty with hair/blood/bone.... not much to trim up really. And we use the shoulders for roasts often. Very good roasts.
Jeff
This thread indicates more than ones preference for shot location. It also has a good chance of showing preferred hunting methods.
Rost495 being from TX and using head/neck shots probably hunts from elevated stands at standing or slow moving deer.
BobinNH: Maine on his feet trying to find few deer in a large area. Take what ever shot you get and keep firing tell its down.
Hawk1: I personally don't know much about Iowa hunting, but he has it figured out. Just get it done one way or another. Throw away what you can't eat or cook it up for the dogs.
Most of this "wasted meat" stuff is BS. Seen to many freezers from all around this country with "last years" deer still in there. For those of you that don't waste an ounce my hats off, but you are the exception.
Same thing when I saw guys getting on the plane to leave Ak after fishing. They have more salmon then they will eat in 2 years. You tell me everyone of them is going to eat all that and I'm just going to look at you funny. This wasted meat thing in most cases is just more BS tied into a BS thread.
Just shoot the deer shoulder/heart/lungs in the ass if you have enough gun and for some reason-"horns?"-you want that particular deer.
Battue
After reading 10 pages of postings, this topic comes down to what every pissin match on here comes down to - personal preference. It doesn't matter what the topic, each of us has to determine what we want to do/accomplish. Shoot your deer/elk/bear/turkeys/doves anyway you want. Good arguments exist for anchoring them at the spot (scapula hits will give you DRT - and a potential mess), lung shots and subsequent follow-up - or any variation in between. You have to determine what you need to accomplish and how much cleaning you want to do.
As for my 2 cents worth, I find the "shoot the shoulders" concept interesting. On a dead broadside shot, "shooting the shoulders" means you're shooting way too far forward and/or high if you hit bone. I think many don't know where the shoulder bones on hooved animals actually sit, hence why we have these type of discussions. Quartering to/from is a different story and bones come into play.
Come straight up the leg, stop 1/3 up the body, squeeze the trigger. No major bones, lots of lungs, not much mess with good bullets, animals don't go far. Its pretty dang simple...........
Bwinters
Nice summation really. Plus your shot location gives about the most room for vertical and horizontal error and still hitting vitals.
Battue, I do hunt some from stands. I do a lot on the ground and without stands though, and deer are walking through or grazing, but not under feeders... not that it really matters, but yep I also see the deer moving out quick... I simply don't shoot unless I know I can kill. And as such pass up a lot of shots, but don't have to worry about wounding as much.
Jeff
Not flaming you here,but I am curious with that statment as to why you kill animal then? Horns ,bragging rights, ego or?
If some of you guys think the front shoulder is just stew or chili meat, you haven't tasted a good corn fed deer then
Yep, that about covers it. To be honest, I really don't care much for venison although I do eat it, I give most of it away to friends and the bums, er.."homeless shelter." Same for African game. Much better tasting than deer and even most beef, but you can't bring the meat home so I settle for the horns (no antlers over there) and cape. They look good on my wall. jorge
Rost495: From reading many of your past posts I'm sure that your abilities with a rifle have been achieved thru time, effort, experimentation and plain hard work because those skills are something you enjoy and take pride in. Didn't mean to suggest anything else.
Your statement of not shooting unless you know you can kill is something we all should follow. Many ways to get that done and we should all strive for a quick death to the animals we hunt.
I work on my skills also and shoot shotguns and rifles as much as I can not only for enjoyment but to lean my limitations and to enable myself to be satisified in my abilities in the field.
However shooting a deer is usually a pretty straight foward thing-don't get me wrong I still get excited about the whole thing-but within reasonable ranges it is not that complicated. If it is I reconsider shooting and try to figure another way to get it done. I've screwed up twice and it didn't make for good sleeping.
Battue
Jeff,
My "P.S." was trying to make two points, and I failed abysmally.
1. Oregon, unlike some other states, does not exactly have an over abundance of deer. As you state, a hunter here is likely to have only two tags at best per year. A hunter here will always be limited in "experience" to those who have much more opportunities.
2. Oregon has a lot of yahoos ("hunters") who call drinking beer in a pickup in October "hunting". These fellows are lucky not to kill themselves or others and would go to their death bed bragging about sixteen deer over a lifetime (50+ years???) of hunting. It was a backhanded compliment to someone who has such a short tenure, but has nevertheless been very effective when opportunities were presented.
Hope that clears things up,
Charlie
JorgeI.
If some of you guys think the front shoulder is just stew or chili meat, you haven't tasted a good corn fed deer then
That is correct, I have never tasted corn fed vennison. Some of the ranches in Texas use corn feeders, but they only put out enough corn to be sort of like deer candy.
I bought a bonus point for Kansas with the intention of going there soon. Maybe I will slip it in behind the shoulder if I get an opportunity, just to experience this shoulder meat so many are concerned with.
Happy hunting
This stuff is too funny.
I've never tasted any corn-fed deer :D, but the mule deer and antelope from Wyoming are VERY tasty.
Most guys who don't care for venison IMO are those who have stuff processed like beef (lockers) or they are so concerned with shoulder and shank "meat" that they grind it with gristle and tendons (not meat). It ain't Uncle Larry's milk cow. You do that, it don't taste very good, unless your butcher is good at hiding stuff with spices (or if your homeless some lead fragments); and I'm sure he uses every scrap you bring him
How its cooked plays a role too.
I've shot deer with rifles, shotguns and handguns. I've shot them from stands, still hunting, spot and stalk and in drives. They've been shot through the head, shoulders, lungs, back spine and up the spout out the front. There is a ton of places you can shoot them to make them dead. I've even seen them die from a slug to the guts, surprisingly quick too, though I don't advocate it.
They drop the fastest with CNS hits and die/drop fast when the front of the lungs or top of the heart is collected with a shoulder shot.
The point is that every one has had meat loss (rost,u prolly don't eat tongue
).
Most of this "wasted meat" stuff is BS. Seen to many freezers from all around this country with "last years" deer still in there. For those of you that don't waste an ounce my hats off, but you are the exception.
This wasted meat thing in most cases is just more BS tied into a BS thread.
Battue
I can't say what most other guys do, but I assure you, wasting meat is a big deal to me. The meat itself, is a big deal to me.
On some years, when I've killed 3 deer or if I got some elk in the freezer from helping pack out some other SOB's elk <G>, I have given some meat to my friends and family. My brother and my stepfather in particular are ravenous consumers of good, clean, venison.
It's not a financial thing- I can afford to buy meat- it's a much deeper thing than that. It goes to the core of why I hunt. So yeah, the meat is a big deal to me and is well worth mentioning on a thread that is about shooting them in the meat or not!
Just my .02...
For clarification, in eastern Co, corn is almost always irrigated in pivots. These are irrigation sprays that run around large circle with the pivot in the center, where the well or water is piped into. Deer usually come out of the river bottoms or pasture land when the corn is a few feet high. They stay in the corn all summer and all they eat is corn. They can get water from the center as there is always some leakage. They don't come out until a combine chases them out, but they hang around for awhile picking up the dropped corn.
It ends up about like finised beef, only leaner, but they do have a lot of fat on them,just not marbled. If there is any finer tasting big game in North America,I have not tasted it.Deer fed on sage,oak brush, hardwoods of the east, and out of dry country is usually not as good.
I process all my own meat and we even have a walk in cooler now to age it. Sinew, tendons, grissel, or blood shot meat does not go into it.
Typically I eat one elk or two deer a year myelf. By September, there might be a half dozen pieces of meat left in the freezer and I'm forced to choke downn some store bought stuff or chicken.
I am probably in the minority as mentioned above,but most guys I hunt with process the same way.
This is probably why I am so fussy about where I shoot them. If I can't eat them,I don't shoot them,no matter what the game is.I haven't been to Africa as some,and probably won't even make it to alaska, for the same reason. I have never gotten a real big kick out of shooting something just to watch it die, so if I can't bring home the meat, there is no use in me going. The horns or anlers just get thrown in a pile or hung up on the barn.
Good post and I give you credit. However, when you take them as they come within your limitations sometimes you are going to tear up some meat. If you always wait for the broadside behind the shoulder your going to go without any meat more often than not. Especially under the thick habitat conditions that you describe. Do you eat the rib meat also?
I use what I can also, although I admit that on occassion the dogs eat better than other times. They enjoy and deserve it as much as me. I just don't get that worked up about a bullet doing its job.
Battue
He also shot a thing or two before Nosler Partitions were created (J.O'C); soft bullets at soft stuff.
Now I hear all of this wasted meat (muscle) B.S.. You guys are all trying to hit the heart right? The only way to disrupt spinal connections is to hit the spine, which hits the backstrap (yes it goes between the shoulder blades, not the shoulder knuckle). If you blow up the heart you have "wasted meat". Yes, I do eat heart AND I shoot shoulders (knuckle). I don't shy away from lung shots either, but immediate stops have occurred most often with shoulder shots. But this has more to do with being silly than dropping an animal now isn't it?
Said another way, I don't cry when I can't collect the heart; I don't cry when there is a hole through the shoulder joint either.
I assume most here process their deer, but I'm sure not everyone does either. If you are not a "meat waster" then you must process your own? Have fun grinding tendons fellas, or making steaks out of that stuff or making sure your "butcher" doesn't waste anything.
Hard to kill stuff without a hole in it somewhere when shooting a gun. Pretty easy to get plenty of meat by doing it yourself too. I have no qualms about where you think is the best place to shoot something; its the whole wasted meat crap that seems silly.
On that note lets ban Ballistic Tips; silly ain't it?
Reckon that pretty much sums it up.
I have eaten a big thick rolled shoulder roast from an Alberta whitetail. It was good, but not any better than meat from the hams, or barbecued ribs.
This deer was mostly fed by wild browse. If he had agricultural products it would have been canola or peas.
So which is the best Colorado plains cornfed shoulder, whitetail or mulies?
Most of the white tails run off the mulies. DOW is now considering a no limit,no draw on eastern CO whitetails. They want them dead.I guess they are afraid of them moving west. I live about 1/2 way acros the state and I see a few now around my place. The mulies seem to stay out of the corn more, prefering the CRP or pasture land with arroyos in it, draws and such. I have seen a few though in the corn fields after it is cut. Those whitetails are about like long legged rats as far as grain damage is concerned
You sound like good people. I could almost have put my name on your post.
My post was missing a smiley. I have eaten TONS of corn-fed deer (Iowa), but I still don't really notice that big of a diff. Yes, stuff shot feeding off sage tastes different, but not necessarily "worse" IMO.
For one, you will still find acorns, alfalfa, clover, and natural browse in deer stomachs here despite the fact there is more corn here than most places.
I am a meat hunter, primarily. We apply for all the extra tags we can here and are allowed to party hunt. I shot four deer in December and all four are in the freezer and dwindling. The amount of meat there far outshadows the shoulder meat I've destroyed in a lifetime. If I put a dollar value on it per tag (for the investment types) I've wrecked five dollars worth of meat over close to eighty deer.
Its the heart and livers that most folks waste
They are not really wasted, the heart and liver is left with the other guts. The coyotes and birds need to eat too.
This is some funny stuff..If you shoot a deer through the shoulders and hit the heart you have shot at the elbow or perhaps a tad below it..If that is meat wasted, then your shooting totally different deer than I have shot for near a century...That part is about a teacup of meat and sinue and good only for the dog. The upper shoulder has some meat, about a pound or two at most..A deer consists of backstrap, hindquarters, and neck meat for chili, and of course you want to salvage the upper shoulder meat...This thread is a lot of BS...
Shoot them like you have to, depending on your circumstances are you will go home without...
I hunt deer with a 25-35 Win carbine, shoot them under 150 yards in the shoulder or behind the shoulder, in the neck or head if they are real close..I don't waste any meat with that little gun..I have to pass on some really nice trophy bucks that are out there at 300 or so yards, but I have shot my share of big bucks and today I'm primarily a meat hunter on deer and elk and I hunt where they are abundant, that is behind my house. I have owned that little rifle since I was 7 or 8 years old, and have shot a simi truck load of deer and about 3 or 4 elk with it. The way I use it, it fits the bill..
If I were trophy hunting then I would use a 270 or 300 H&H and not worry about the meat or the shot..A big old tough trophy buck is sometimes pretty rank (not always)and ruining 5 lbs. of meat might be a blessing!
Who makes the rules in hunting anyway? You do, its your hunt so enjoy it and do it your way as long as its legal.
last year I took three deer with two different rifles(30-06 and 50 cal),two of the three took out the arteries on top of the heart,both dropped right there,very little wasted meat at all.
If I made a shot through both front shoulders,I would be really unhappy.I have used up all my last years meat {3 deer} making venison jerky.Shoulders make damn fine jerky,let me tell you,either ground or not.
I love fresh liver and onions,but my high cholesterol makes it so I limit it to one time a year. Usually elk camp and the 1st elk we shoot. One night years ago we fried up 3 full livers for 6 guys. Lots of slurry food the next day coming out and we filled the latrine.
Atkinson.This thread isn't B.S. A lot of good information of how other folks in differnt parts of the country do thier thing. Just becasue they do it differntly than you do, does not make it B.S.
Down in Georgia and South Carolina,I belive you are allowed a deer a day for 30 days.Here in CO you are only allowed two in one season,and some areas only one. If I were allowed to kill 30 deer, I would probably only be using the rear back strap and part of the hams. Those deer down there are pest, about like prarie dogs.
Whether it is shot though the shoulders or lungs is indeed personal prefernce as to how one uses the meat or not..
I have always gone for the shoulder. I am a better shot now but in those days the shoulder was always the biggest target and at least I could knock the deer off his feet. I never cared about bloodshot meat.........I was just happy to get the deer!!!
Whew, can't handle liver... must have been all the liver my mom fed us in the 70's... bleah. I boil it and give it to my dog. So I must confess to wasting that "meat".
Though it sure does make Lucy happy!
if that's the only shot that is going to present itself then yes. some meat on the table is better than my buddies freezer looks. front shoulders on deer are pretty good for burger any way!
JorgeI.
"Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge "
Not flaming you here,but I am curious with that statment as to why you kill animal then? Horns ,bragging rights, ego or?
If some of you guys think the front shoulder is just stew or chili meat, you haven't tasted a good corn fed deer then
I�m with Jorge1 on this. My policy is �shoot them until they are down � and stay that way�. Usually that is one shot but last year both elk took two from my .30-06, all shots were well placed and ranges were about 126 yards and 25 yards. Both went down at the original shot but got back up again. All shots were tight behind the leg and little meat was wasted. Most of the wasted meat, in fact, came from one animal and was from the off-side leg. Still, a little wasted meat is better than losing an entire animal.
Have never eaten at a Ruth�s steakhouse but I�ve had some mighty good beef steaks at other joints and have to say I prefer good beef to anything I�ve put on the ground myself - but that is not to say I don�t enjoy the wild game I take. You might as well, in my case, ask why I eat more oranges than cherries when I MUCH prefer cherries.
Like Jorge1, much of the meat I take ends up at a local shelter, in my case the Denver Rescue Mission. The shoulders are the first thing to go, the better cuts go last. When it comes to the better cuts, last year�s meat, and there usually is some, goes before the current year.
Corn-fed deer is good, but not as good as antelope or elk, and corn fed beef is even better. Oranges and cherries.
Coyote Hunter,
Understood and I largly agree- with elk. I was pretty careful to specify DEER in the thread title for just that reason. When it gets into very large or dangerous animals, breaking the critter down structurally starts to make a lot more sense to me... plus I've witnessed first hand what a wounded elk is capable of and it's AMAZING.
'Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge "
"Not flaming you here,but I am curious with that statment as to why you kill animal then? Horns ,bragging rights, ego or?"
That seems like a strange question to ask on a shooting/hunting forum.
Maybe jorge likes to hunt?? Not such a strange concept to me.
Everyone has their opinions, but I don't shoot game just to kill it and then give the meat away. We eat what we shoot, and IMHO, the world would be better if everyone did the same. But thats just my opinion, and if folks get a thrill out of just killing and wanting to brag that the head is on the wall and give the meat away thats fine.
We butchered our own beef for years also, never gave that away either. I much prefer any venison over beef for some reason. I guess one gets used to certain things. About the only beef I really enjoy anymore is a rare ribeye. Of course rare moose steak will whip that ANY day of the week.
As to the cherries to oranges example... I feel its a good shot, but to me its kinda like why would you grow your own oranges and then give them away to go out and buy cherries.
I will say this part of the thread is a touchy subject and I was raised not to waste or to shoot game just to give it away. I do give it away if folks need it though, but I don't kill just to kill. Guess its why I"m as happy shooting does or cows as I am looking for a good male representative. Heck i'd rather eat a cow every year than think about a bull I never got.
To each his own.
Jeff
I have a real good friend that swears by shooting animals in the shoulder and he does it successfully, but he cares about nothing but the horns. He usually demolishes the front shoulders and only gets the straps and hind quarters from his game.
Never really cared for shoulder shooting, but will take it if nothing else is available. I like to tuck it right behind the shoulder and take out the lungs/heart. Another good place is high behind the shoulder to take out the lungs and clip the bottom of the spine for DRTs.
I hear folks saying behind the shoulder shots don't anchor game, pure BS with the dozens and dozens of animals I've taken. Medium game will drop or run very short distances gushing blood if you hit them in the heart/lungs with an expansive bullet such as the NBT or HDY IL. I've made dozens of DRTs w/o touching major bones.
Elk go quite a distance with lung shots, but their shoulders are pretty tough and require tough bullets.
I don't really care if someone chooses shoulders or not as long as they have the proper equip and go for vital shots.
Believe it or not most of the game I've shot in the shoulder traveled just as far as game shot behind the shoulder. Seems like more times than not only one shoulder gets the majority of the trauma and 3 legged animals can move better than many think.
Good Luck
Reloader7RM
Eye Opener for me, Guess I was taught different never realized anyone purposely shot through the shoulders. If I don't think I may want to get it mounted I shoot for the head or upper neck at the base of the head I want as much clean meat out of my animal as possible. If I think I am going to mount it I go for behind the shoulder - NEVER THROUGH THE SHOULDER.
Jeff: you raise some good points. The only comment I would make is just because you give away some or all of the meat, does not equate to "killing just to kill".
IMO, there is a lot more to the sport of hunting than just killing. and it is a sport that can only be (in most cases) enjoyed for a part of the year. My wife and I can't/don't eat more than about one deer per year, so I guess if I followed your rules, I'd have to quit hunting after the first deer hit the ground.
My perspective, and as you correctly point out, we all have our own. Is that I will enjoy hunting (not just killing) as much as I can, I will eat all the venision that I want, and will make sure that the rest goes to good use.
And then there are coyotes...
..
Shoot them like you have to, depending on your circumstances are you will go home without...
Who makes the rules in hunting anyway? You do, its your hunt so enjoy it and do it your way as long as its legal.
Not much BS there: Just some wisdom from a man who has been there a lot more than most of us. Plus he left the door open for everyone. What more do you want?
The BS part is that so many think their way is the only way and I think that is his reference.
Battue
One of my best friends son is a natural. Big, strong, excellent reflexes, fantastic eyes and a no BS kind of guy, that spends more time in the woods and on the water than most 10men. Knows what it is-and how-to work for his deer.
Hunts his deer in the thick clear cuts in the NW corner of Pa. When he goes in the woods eventually something is going to die and unless things are going bad-not usually-what dies is going to have some impressive horns. Bounces them out of their bed/hiding places and things happen quickly. Makes a 700 just sing when he gets one going. Not odd for his bucks to have more than one hole in who knows where. Just pounds them down with whatever presents itself. Where does he fall in this thread? I'll tell you: one consistently successful hunter that you don't want to bet against. If he read this thread-BS to him for sure-he would just grin and shake his head that so many worry themselves about such stuff.
Battue
Good grief,
this thread is bordering on the ridiculous.I've refrained from entering my .02, but my common sense evades me right now.Shoot the deer where you want to.I shoot them wherever I can to make them dead,shoulder,neck,spine,lungs, whatever, so long as it is a responsible shot.I am not a trophy hunter.I hunt to fill my freezer, and the freezers of those who are less fortunate than I am.I can't do that if the deer isn't dead, so I shoot them wherever I can accurately put the bullet.People make this way way too complicated.
There, my rant is over.
My opinion is...it depends. If I have the time and the deer lets me, I tuck it in behind the shoulder. If all I have is the shoulder to shoot, then the deer gets it through the shoulder. Most of the deer I have shot have let me tuck it in behind the shoulder and have taken out heart/lungs. I have to use shotguns where I hunt in MN, but they have come a long way in the last 5 years.
Good topic as evidenced by 7 pages of responses.
My opinion is...it depends. If I have the time and the deer lets me, I tuck it in behind the shoulder. If all I have is the shoulder to shoot, then the deer gets it through the shoulder. Most of the deer I have shot have let me tuck it in behind the shoulder and have taken out heart/lungs.
Well said. I agree.
If you guys could see me coming apart at the seams while I wait for a blacktail to give me the shot angle I want... you'd understand that it really does matter to me
. I remember a couple where my glasses were fogging, my heart literally felt like it was going to come exploding out of my chest... ears are ringing... can't seem to get enough oxygen... but still waiting for that shot angle.
The very first deer I killed, I bet I waited 10 minutes for the shot. Part of that was simple inexperience, I'd shoot him much more quickly now. Anyway by the time I tripped the trigger, I was just sort of numb; the adrenaline had come and gone and I was just sort of a stoopid blob trying to figure out if I was seeing horns or not in the dusk and fog. Anyway when I did shoot I tucked it right behind the shoulder and took the top of his heart off. DRT. Everyone I'd talked to had mentioned how deer will usually run at the shot, so be ready and shoot them again. This guy just disapeared, vanished. The whole thing was so surreal that for a second I thought I'd imagined the whole thing. Plus it was the first time I had fired my 30-06 without hearing protection and I was sort of stunned.
But I didn't shoot the dang shoulder!
What I usually do is try to kill by ricochet. A little extra insurance if the bullet is already pre-expanded/deformed when it hits the shoulders..........
Down in Georgia and South Carolina,I belive you are allowed a deer a day for 30 days.
On some of the private lands in the Midlands and Lowcountry, the season is from Aug. 15 to Jan. 1 with no limit on antlered deer and 2 antlerless deer per day on either-sex days. Individual Antlerless Deer Tags are also available; however, some properties are on the Antlerless Deer Quota Program.
Deer are often shot in poor light (legal hunting time is the time between one hour before official sunrise until one hour after official sunset) near heavy cover that limits visibility/accessibility and may include wetlands and water. A deer that leaves little or no sign after it�s shot and travels a good distance can be difficult or impossible to recover without the aid of a dog.
I�ve donned briar britches in order to be able to extract deer shot behind the shoulder that managed to make it into places where Br'er Rabbit wouldn�t want to get thrown. A high shoulder shot (through both shoulders) keeps that type of sport to a minimum.
�
As to the cherries to oranges example... I feel its a good shot, but to me its kinda like why would you grow your own oranges and then give them away to go out and buy cherries.
Well, I still like oranges, don�t have a cherry tree and can�t hunt beef�
I will say this part of the thread is a touchy subject and I was raised not to waste or to shoot game just to give it away. I do give it away if folks need it though, but I don't kill just to kill. Guess its why I"m as happy shooting does or cows as I am looking for a good male representative. Heck i'd rather eat a cow every year than think about a bull I never got.
To each his own.
Jeff
I think we�re pretty much on the same page � I was taught and strongly believe one shouldn�t waste game meat. Family and friends get first choice but I have no qualms about helping out the Denver Rescue Mission with game meat � they do a lot of good for a lot of less fortunate folks and I know exactly how my donations get used. But for the grace of God they�d be helping me.
FWIW, I shoot far more antlerless than antlered.
no, I shoot them where they live and breath.
deer are just like women. Take their breath away, and they won't go far!
What I usually do is try to kill by ricochet. A little extra insurance if the bullet is already pre-expanded/deformed when it hits the shoulders..........
Yep! and pop em in the guts too, because in every western movie I watch the guy who gets shot in the guts always dies.
"deer are just like women. Take their breath away, and they won't go far!"
There's a really crude post to be had here, involving pearl necklasses, shoulder shots, and the efficacy of shooting the hindquarters... but I'm FAR too refined and subtle to make such a post.
Yep. Would not do such a thing. For the children, and all.
Hey Jeff, You shouldn't have any trouble finding lung shot deer. It says that you are a Campfire Tracker right under your name. :-)
As for me, when they're running flat out through the timber I just try to hit them up front some where and keep hitting them till thier down.
Not a good idea with a 378. I�ve shot many deer with my 378 but I usually but it through behind the front legs through the ribs and lungs. The exit is usually the size of a golf ball, they drop instantly. The 300 grainer blasts through at 3000 ft-/sec and shock wave transmits to the brain and it shuts down right now. You can even see sometimes where blood and lungs sprays out of it�s mouth and is on the snow in front of the animal.
You wonder why I shoot them with a 378? The reason is simple, I have a tag for moose, a tag for elk, a tag for.... well you get the picture.
I took a gals breath away once. Took me ten years to get rid of her.
Re giving meat to homeless shelters,etc. I use to do that,but now they require the meat to be processed by a commercial shop.
The last time I had a elk done about ten years ago,it cost me $180, andi do abetter job of it. Even the rapture center down in Pueblo requires a commercial.
If it were not for tha,I would certainly contribute some of my meat to it.
Down in Georgia and South Carolina,I belive you are allowed a deer a day for 30 days.
On some of the private lands in the Midlands and Lowcountry, the season is from Aug. 15 to Jan. 1 with no limit on antlered deer and 2 antlerless deer per day on either-sex days. Individual Antlerless Deer Tags are also available; however, some properties are on the Antlerless Deer Quota Program.
Deer are often shot in poor light (legal hunting time is the time between one hour before official sunrise until one hour after official sunset) near heavy cover that limits visibility/accessibility and may include wetlands and water. A deer that leaves little or no sign after it�s shot and travels a good distance can be difficult or impossible to recover without the aid of a dog.
I�ve donned briar britches in order to be able to extract deer shot behind the shoulder that managed to make it into places where Br'er Rabbit wouldn�t want to get thrown. A high shoulder shot (through both shoulders) keeps that type of sport to a minimum.
Sounds like around here. We're allowed 3 does per day through archery, muzzleloader, and rifle. That basically encompasses mid-September to the 1st week of January, with the odd day off here and there. In short, we can shoot a hell of a lot of deer and gain a lot of killing experience if we're so inclined. My experience tells me I'd much rather put them down where they stand than go digging them out of the briar patch they dove into after a lung shot.
I feel for you guys that don't see many deer. I had some similar times growing up in the midwest.
Nowadays as I'm sitting in an elevated South Texas blind looking over 20 or 30 deer at a time, I often think to myself "self, I want to blow the [bleep] out of a pair of shoulders" so it will drop right there. Works every time.
And no, I don't worry about meat loss. I have a hard time eating what I kill as it is. Not to mention that scapula's not the best eating part of the deer.
Jeff, I don't shot for the shoulder if I can get a shot behind the shoulder or a neck shot.
Been deer hunting since before I was a teenager, almost 25 years I guess. I can recall only one season not harvesting a deer, that was just a couple years ago because of other priorities.
Usually behind the shoulder if over a 100yds and/or its a good one. In the neck/head if close. To me the neck/head shot is so much cleaner to work with. The chest cavity stays nice and blood free that way, speeds up the processing.
Like most here, we steak or grind all we can but cut out any blood shot meat. Including ribs and shoulders.
I allways go for a double lung right behind the shoulder. tom
I hate to say this, for fear of sounding like some kind of nut, but in the last few years, I have been more concerned with putting venison in the freezer. I take whatever reasonable shot the game gives me. I am not afraid to shoot them head on, through the slats or through the shoulders. I have been known to neck shoot them if that is the only shot I have.
When I was single, and in college, my only focus was putting something in the freezer - deer, turkeys, fish. I didn't buy a package of meat or fish from a grocery store for about 5 or 6 years. A head shot wastes zero meat.............. Tracking is pretty easy too
Dropping them where they stand is much preferred to having them dash into a short planted pine thicket overgrown with blackberries, a canebrake strewn with greenbrier, or the heavy cover of a river swamp especially if shot at last light.
Sandlapper, I understand what you�re saying. I hunt or have hunted similar terrain all my life. I�m been hunting and killing deer for 45+ years.
I�ve killed about 50 deer or so by shooting thru the neck from ranges of 10 feet to 100 yards. All but 3 were DRT. And these 3 did not go 5 feet before my second shot finished them. I never lost a deer with this shot.
I�ve taken a heart-lung shot at about 60 deer or so. About half dropped within a few feet of there they stood. The rest ran and all but all few were found within 50 yards or so. The ones that ran the furthest were because of bad shot placement and/or angle. I have lost maybe 6 deer with this shot. My heart-lung shots have ranged from 100-300 yards or so with the most being within 100-200 yards.
I�ve taken about 40 shoulder shots and about 30 of the shots were taken early in my hunting career with standard factory ammo with cup-n-core bullets and the results were not good. All traveled, most required a finishing shot and about a third were lost. In the last ten years I have been using factory premium ammo or handloads with premium bullets and these work alot better for this shot.
I avoid this shot if possible. Even with premium bullets, old habits are hard to break.
I also avoid the Texas heart shot.
Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge
My thoughts exactly! I always aim for the opposite shoulder.
I�m surprised you�ve had so many problems with shoulder shots. What was the muzzle velocity of your cup-and-cores?
Just to be clear, it�s a high shoulder shot (through both shoulders) to which I�ve been referring. The bullet on the far right is a .308 cup-and-core (165-grain Remington AccuTip 2,700 fps MV) that was a found under the skin of the far shoulder on a high shoulder shot--the white on the bullet is bone.
![[Linked Image]](http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Sandlapper203/Bullets-front-NBT-ERBT-AT-800.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Sandlapper203/Bullets-side-NBT-ERBT-AT-800.jpg)
Your experience, with the exception of the shoulder shots, is similar to the findings of Charles Ruth�s study. The sections on shot placement and effects:
Shot Placement
In this study we were also interested in documenting the importance of shot placement because this is often a point of debate among sportsmen. We have already seen that deer run nearly 50 percent of the time when they are mortally wounded. Certainly, shot placement is the most important factor related to how deer react after being shot. Several types of trauma can lead to the rapid death of an animal that is struck by a bullet. Significant trauma to the central nervous system, the respiratory system or the circulatory system will all prove effective.
For the purposes of this study, bullet placement consisted of neck, spine shoulder, heart, lungs and abdomen. Since animals that were hit in the extremities or hit superficially were still alive they were eliminated from this particular analysis in favor of more traditional bullet placement locations. In this study deer shot in the neck and spine were immediately rendered immobile and succumbed quickly. Deer that were shot broadside in the shoulder ran a mean distance of 3 yards while animals hit in the heart, lungs or abdomen traveled 39, 50 and 69 yards respectfully.
So what shot placement is the best. Neck shots worked well in this study, but they can be problematic because the target area is very small and there is a risk of wounding associated with the target. Potential problems include a shot to the esophagus or mandible. Also, spine shots can be ruled out as a recommenced shot because few shots are consciously directed at the spine. In other words, most spine shots result from shots that miss their mark high and incidentally hit the spine.
Based on the data collected in this study we feel that the best shot placement for deer is the shot directed at the shoulder. Traveling an average of only 3 yards, deer shot in the shoulder traveled significantly less distance than deer shot in the heart, lungs, or abdomen. Also, with such a short distance of travel, deer shot squarely in the shoulder did not generally leave the hunter's sight. In this study, the broadside shoulder shot essentially gave results similar to what most hunters expect from a neck shot. Presumably the broadside shoulder shot works well because it strikes part of the heart and or lungs which itself is a mortal blow. However, a shot through the scapula damages the brachial plexus which the central nervous system thereby rendering the animal immobile. It knocks the animal out and it never regains consciousness. Also, the shoulder is a very large target offering room for error; a high shot hits the spine, a low shot the heart and a shot to the rear hits the lungs.
Effects of shot placement
Shot Location....# Deer....Yards Traveled
Neck..................25..........<1
Spine.................27..........<1
Shoulder..............170.........3
Heart.................14..........39
Lungs.................152.........50
Abdomen...............58..........69
Shot Location....# Deer....Yards Traveled
Shoulder..............170.........3
170 shoulder shot deer with an average distance traveled of 3 yards. I'd call that a trend.
Wonder which study is more valid, this one or the one from the guy who's shot 1 deer in the shoulder out of 16 total?
jds44,
The reason I will go out of my way to tell you again that you have your head up your a$$ (other than just plain spite <g>) is that you JUST... DON'T... GET IT!!
You don't get the whole point of this thread. But I ain't telling you. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually and stop making a fool out of yourself, but probably not.
The point of the thread was to try and prove you know what the heck you're doing. It ain't working.
Think'll I'll take advantage of Rick's 4th special and order a blue swirly. Maybe it'll be here in time for a little R&D this fall.
I aim for the exit. If that means a shoulder is hit along the way oh well. With archery tackle it's behind the shoulder for obvious reasons.
The point of the thread was to try and prove you know what the heck you're doing. It ain't working.
That is most emphatically NOT the point... but you'll never get it, it would appear.... so carry on, sir, with your regularly scheduled "life as a pissing match".
And that right there is more of a hint that you deserve from me.
You started this thread because Steelhead kept saying shoot through the shoulders, but he couldn't get the point through to you. You were hoping to garner support for your way of doing things so you could either flaunt the fact or at least prove you weren't the only idiot. Plain and simple.
Absolutely break the shoulders for deer and every other animal. I really don't care how much meat gets ruined as long as the animal goes down fast. If I want good meat I go to Ruth's. jorge
My thoughts exactly! I always aim for the opposite shoulder.
I do care how much meat I waste, I really like the meat and not having to buy steroid fed slaughter house beef. But this is a free country and I harbor no ill thoughts about your preffered methods. If we had an abundunce of deer up here and I could get more than one or two then I might not care about the front shoulder, aint much meat there anyways right.
Happy hunting
You started this thread because Steelhead kept saying shoot through the shoulders, but he couldn't get the point through to you. You were hoping to garner support for your way of doing things so you could either flaunt the fact or at least prove you weren't the only idiot. Plain and simple.
Nope. Again sir, you are completely missing the point.
I suggest you take off the piss-colored glasses.
Nope, I'm not missing a thing and you know it. You had no intention of sparking a proper debate, you simply set out to prove you were right. If every poster had responded that they do shoot through the shoulder, you'd still be stamping your foot yelling "that ain't right".
Ordered today in your honor and I'm dubbing it the Jeff O Special. Note the colors. Hopefully it'll make it in time to shoot a small truck load of deer through the shoulder this fall in your honor.
Products
1 x McMillan Fiberglass Hunting Stocks
- 1a. Stock Pattern: Remington Classic
- 1b. Select Stock Orientation: Right-handed
- 1c. Construction/Fill Weight:: Fiberglass/Standard Fill
- 2a. Action Inlet: Remington 700 Short Action ADL -
- 2b. Select Action Orientation: Right-handed
- 2c. Bottom Metal Inlet: ADL
- 2d. Barrel Channel Inlet:: Remington LVSF - Light Varmint S
- 3a. Rifle Caliber:: .223
- 4a. Recoil Pad:: 1-inch Pachmayr Decelerator
- 4b. Length of Pull:: 13 3/8
- 5a. Finish:: Custom Molded-In Colors (ENTER B
- : 50% Dark Blue, 25% Black, 25% Light Gray
- 5c. Sling Studs: Blued Studs
- 5d. Webbing:: No webbing
- 7a. Deposit:: Pay in Full Now
- 7b. Shipping to Canada:: No
- 8. Pillar Installation: Factory-Installed Machined Pilla
- 99. Special Instructions:: 50% Dark Blue, 25% Black, 25% Light Gray Swirl
One more hint for you:
Who's the one stomping his foot because (gasp!) reasonable people didn't agree with him?
Not me, my friend. You.
Lose the glasses, if you can. The world doesn't have to be that color.
That sounds like a cool rifle, jds. I hope you do indeed whack a bunch of deer with it.
Ordered today in your honor and I'm dubbing it the Jeff O Special. Note the colors. Hopefully it'll make it in time to shoot a small truck load of deer through the shoulder this fall in your honor.
I also note the caliber. A blue .223 called the Jeff O Special. Absolute classic. You should put a decal of a muppet on the stock.
![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/Bert.jpg)
Ha!
Now, stamp "Jeff O Special" on the barrel and THEN I'll sign off on it! :-) And I'll provide my address for the royalty checks. Say... $10 a deer. However, using a "stunt" caliber like .223 I won't be getting many checks, I suppose.
Heh heh... couldn't resist.
-jeff
Speaking of glasses, these would be absolute killer with that stock...may be a pun there.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.maximumeyewear.com/productfolder/designer-sunglasses/lokes/ray-ban-lokes-3.jpg)
Having killed over a dozen whitetails and mule deer, my answer is.... put the bullet where it kills em. I have shot deer in the neck, head, shoulders, lungs, up the azz, hell I have even gut shot a few that were running (chasing does etc). Have never lost a deer I shot and have never thought of them as tough animals to kill. As a matter of fact I killed quite a few does with head shots froma 22-250 and then still had the right gun to whack a few toms while I was at it, especially them tiny west Texas deer. You dont get much more than a sandwich out of em. So the answer Jeff O is yes , no , and maybe! Bud my advice is that you need to type less and kill more chit, or at least dont type so much until you do....grin
Taught myself how to hunt. No reletives or friends I had at the time hunted. Thought that shoulder shots was how it was done. The old 30-30 sure did waste alot of meat. Infact I had deer travel much farther after shoulder shot. Had one, run well skid on chin over 300 yds once before he died.
Not anymore. I like meat and most just drop in their tracks!! Big improvement
Wait a minute, Shaq, you're telling me that your animals went FURTHER after being shoulder shot as opposed to shooting them behind the shoulder? And the 30-30 wasted a lot of meat?! Either yours is a very subtle type of sarcasm, or else you're serious....
Nope, I'm not missing a thing and you know it. You had no intention of sparking a proper debate, you simply set out to prove you were right. If every poster had responded that they do shoot through the shoulder, you'd still be stamping your foot yelling "that ain't right".
Ordered today in your honor and I'm dubbing it the Jeff O Special. Note the colors. Hopefully it'll make it in time to shoot a small truck load of deer through the shoulder this fall in your honor.
Products
1 x McMillan Fiberglass Hunting Stocks
- 1a. Stock Pattern: Remington Classic
- 1b. Select Stock Orientation: Right-handed
- 1c. Construction/Fill Weight:: Fiberglass/Standard Fill
- 2a. Action Inlet: Remington 700 Short Action ADL -
- 2b. Select Action Orientation: Right-handed
- 2c. Bottom Metal Inlet: ADL
- 2d. Barrel Channel Inlet:: Remington LVSF - Light Varmint S
- 3a. Rifle Caliber:: .223
- 4a. Recoil Pad:: 1-inch Pachmayr Decelerator
- 4b. Length of Pull:: 13 3/8
- 5a. Finish:: Custom Molded-In Colors (ENTER B
- : 50% Dark Blue, 25% Black, 25% Light Gray
- 5c. Sling Studs: Blued Studs
- 5d. Webbing:: No webbing
- 7a. Deposit:: Pay in Full Now
- 7b. Shipping to Canada:: No
- 8. Pillar Installation: Factory-Installed Machined Pilla
- 99. Special Instructions:: 50% Dark Blue, 25% Black, 25% Light Gray Swirl
When you get it mounted up, don't forget to put duct tape on the scope lens, I hear it helps....
I rarely try and take out the shoulder on ANY game I shoot - except bears, in which I always try taking out BOTH of them.
The one exception - when I purposely try it - is near dark, in thick stuff, when I need to absloutely plant 'em where they stand - then a high shoulder shot is the safest "in the tracks" shot you have, unless it's real close - then head or neck will do.
Shoulder, done right, is the tastiest of all the meat cuts.
I've seen bad things happen when you don't take out the running gear on stiletto horned herbivores.
Shaq, I agree shooting a shoulder with a cheap bullet can definitely result in a LONG tracking job. Basically exploding bullet with no penetration. I come from a family that did teach me some hunting, but knew nothing about bullets. Been there, suffered that. There's a reason I use Nosler Partitions in all my rifles now if I can.
Wait a minute, Shaq, you're telling me that your animals went FURTHER after being shoulder shot as opposed to shooting them behind the shoulder? And the 30-30 wasted a lot of meat?! Either yours is a very subtle type of sarcasm, or else you're serious....
Sorry bud, dead serious.
I have developed a knak for putting it in the boiler room from lots of angles. No trackin required... Sure some meat takes a hit. But when I was bustin shoulders with 170gr Factory Federal ammo for the old 30-30 I could count on lots of meat damage to one and too often both shoulders. And most critters went at least 50yds. I was real good at makin 'em plow dirt with their nostrils.
Things are much better now.
My preference is to avoid the shoulders, but I'll take a shoulder shot in a heartbeat if that's my best option.
I'll give it more than a heartbeat, but if that's the only shot that is gonna be there, by all means I'll take it too.
Seems like a different (better IMHO) shot usually presents itself pretty quick... at least so far that's been the case.
My brother in law farms around 5500 acres in the lowcountry of South Carolina. He plants "row crops" corn, soybeans, peanuts, cotton, etc. Our deer density is almost beyond belief. One of the things I do to help him out is to fill his deer crop deperadation tags, so I literally shoot 50-60 deer during the summer. I primarly use a .257 weatherby mag, but also use a .270, 30-30, and a 22-250 for neck shots when the beans get high. We shoot does only, that weigh between 70-125 lbs.
From what I've seen, and my experience is with whitetails only, deer run farther when shot "thru the shoulders" when standing broadside. If I can get a quartering shot and shoot thru to the offside shoulder blade, they don't go very far at all.
I don't know why, but the ones that are facing me and I shoot thru the front chest area very seldom take more than one or two steps. Most will fall right where I shoot them.
It's a smaller target, but by far my favorite place to shoot one if I want to make sure it drops in it's tracks.
When I hunted public land in Washington state I still generally had some leeway in picking my shots though one problem usually came up, more than the bottom half of the deer was concealed by brush, blackberry or vine maple usually so I normally took a high chest shot or one in front of the shoulder. These berry fed deer were very tasty and you didn't get a lot of tags. Most of my shots were very close, less than 100 feet and mostly I used a 30-30 loaded with a cast bullet going around 1900 fps. I had a 308 and a 30-06 but felt both were too much for small deer at close range. Also if the deer saw me first and bolted I took it in stride feeling the deer won that round and I never felt the need to take the shot. In Wyoming deer and antelope were often unaware of my presence so I took my time and put the bullet behind the shoulder in the ribs as they were often more than 200 yards away. I used my 30-06 mostly but also a 270 and a 6MM Remington. In Texas on both public and private lands I usually stand hunted either elevated or on the ground. I had to pass one huge buck on public land as he was spooked by the game warden and ran leaving me only a sharply angling shot at a running deer. I could have hit him but felt it is unsporting to shoot a deer that has already spotted me. However at the time I had (and have) access to property on both sides of I35 and in Oklahoma so I presently shoot 5-7 deer a year. My favorite shot angles are behind the shoulder hitting a bit higher than halfway up from the brisket or the neck just in front of the shoulder but a bit below the level of the shoulder blade. I like Ballistic Tips, Sierra Gamekings and Hornady Interloks from my 7x57. I like Speer 150 grain Hotcors, 150 grain Nosler solid bases, 165 grain Ballistic Tips, corelokts and Sierra BTHP's out of my 30-06. I used 200 grain RN corelokts from my 358 one season and they worked perfectly with ribcage hits, this year my Whelen will get to show it's stuff using 250 grain Speers and Hornady RN's. I don't really care if a deer runs 30 yards or so and haven't had one go farther than that in years. I won't rule out high shoulder shots and I might even take a dreaded Texas heart shot if the Horns are big enough and the deer is unaware of my presence.
I'll give it more than a heartbeat, but if that's the only shot that is gonna be there, by all means I'll take it too.
Seems like a different (better IMHO) shot usually presents itself pretty quick... at least so far that's been the case.
Jeff, I hear you. On most occassions I can wait for the deer to give me the shot I want, behind the shoulder. But that's not always the case.
Here's a view from one of my deer stands:
![[Linked Image]](http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/danearl/CIMG1439.jpg)
Most deer pass by this stand within 30-40 yards and give me plenty of time to set up the shot I want. However, quite a few cross at the end of the road right before it turns to the right. That's about 80-100 yards away. This gives me little to no time to take a shot cause I can't see them until they're actually crossing. In fact, 90% or so of the time I'm not able to get a shot off when they cross there. When I do get a shot off it's usually because they stop in the middle of the road facing or quartering toward me. In that case I'm going to take the shot they present me with.
BTW, I think there's a deer in this picture somewhere.
Here's another view, this time to the east (the previous being the south). In this picture there's a doe crossing through the shooting lane I cut. She was about 25-30 yards out. In this case I would have taken the shot you and I prefer the most.
![[Linked Image]](http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/danearl/CIMG1444.jpg)
That's neat country there. It never opens up that much here, even in winter, because of all the evergreens.
You know what's extra cool? In just a few short months, we get to stop talking about this stuff, and get out and hunt!!
You know what's extra cool? In just a few short months, we get to stop talking about this stuff, and get out and hunt!!
Can't wait!
When do you guys start? We are right at the end of September/beginning of October every year.
I'm trying a new bullet in my .358 just to mess with success... a 225 Sierra at 2500 fps. It shoots better at long range than what I had been using. I will do my damdest to keep a Sierra, any Sierra, out of the shoulder <g>.
My shots are usually aimed so that they will take out the lungs and the top of the heart. I usually hunt with a rifle, and it is usually at close range. I generally have no complaints. If they run, it is not far and the blood trail is intense. There have been exceptions, but they are few.
I usually hunt from an elevated stand. The shot enters high on the near side and angles down. If all goes well, the exit hole is low on the far side, and the blood trail begins within 20 yards.
If I bow hunted I'd be able to start Oct. 1, but I haven't bow hunted in several years and have no plans of doing it this year. Our gun season opens in Nov. the weekend before Thanksgiving and runs through the middle of Jan. Actually it's several seasons in a row (gun with dogs, gun without dogs & primitive weapon).
Course before that we've got dove and squirrel season to help keep me busy.
Ha!
"stunt" caliber like .223 I won't be getting many checks, I suppose.
-jeff
Not to jump in the middle of you guys "pissing match", but in the last two years I have shot between 25 and 30 deer a year (from 30 to 200+ yards) with a 52 grain hollow point out of a .223. Most of them were does but a couple were rutting bucks that dressed slightly over 200 lbs. I shot every one of them in the neck and not a single one took another step. Anything under 250 yards I will shoot in the neck, anything over that I will shoot them in the shoulder or behind either one it doesn't matter to me. I prefer to get closer than 250 yards just because it is more of a challenge though.
I was just jokin' with him... all in good fun and all that <g>.
I had to pass one huge buck on public land as he was spooked by the game warden and ran leaving me only a sharply angling shot at a running deer. I could have hit him but felt it is unsporting to shoot a deer that has already spotted me.
What? You and I have a way different view of "sporting"... I see absolutely nothing unsporting about shooting a deer that has spotted me...in fact, it's generally a lot more sporting. You feel the same way about pheasants and quail? Must make bird hunting pretty tough for you.
Deer seasons opens in 23 days
. And yes, I will shoot one through the shoulders if that's what it takes. Predation is a relatively messy business, no matter how hard you try to neaten it up.
Dennis
Most heart/lung shot deer will travel some distance. If the traveling part were to be a bad thing, like perhaps a steep uphill drag or a piece of posted property, take them through the top of the shoulders and the spine. Deal with the blood shot meat. If they are pointing towards the truck double lung them and hope for a good long run.
I try to punch em right behind the front shoulder and ive never had one go far,if the target is a longer shot and I have my doubts I lung em and still have never had one go far,I try to live by the KISS theory {Keep It Simple Shooter}I most generally do my game shooting with Sierra Bullets,Been taking game with them for 32 years and still have no complaints as of today,Im not big on overpriced bullets and magna-mania but in fact its all about sharp shootin and once youve placed your shot its in the hands of the almighty anyhow..........
