This bullet shoots very well from my .358. However it has a bit of a cloud around it for me. At least one campfire member reports poor expansion at .358 speeds, and in fact when I called Sierra they said that the bullet was designed for the Whelen and "might not open up well" at .358 speeds.

Any thought on the matter will be appreciated.

This is for deer. My thinking is... sheesh... even if it doesn't open up large, I'm still hitting them with a .35 caliber bullet; it's gotta work...

-jeff

I know they work on black bear and elk with that bullet at those speeds. Those bullets recoverd had expanded like a typical SGK. Have never shot a deer with this combo but it is sure to work. Just my milage.

It will work, may not be perfect, but it work.. Ask any stick and string guy. I use cast bullets in my .45 so expansion is not needed..

One way to see what expansionyour going to get, would be to shoot some media, water test, etc....

Sounds like you need some more work on that load development..

I did shoot them into some media a few years ago, when I was working up loads for this rifle initially. I shot them into wet phone books, along with a 225-gn Partition.

Total "wound" cavity length was not that different, with the Partition going maybe another inch. The sheer VOLUME of the cavity the Sierra made was astounding. The Sierra did shed it's jacket.

However, I'm not hunting phone books <g>. Any suggestions for a cheap, easy, media that might better show me how it might react, are appreciated.

The reason I am considering switching from ol' Faithful, the 200-gn Hornady, is that the Sierra's are really accurate in my rifle and, combined with their much better BC, they do a lot better at longer ranges. Which is an odd consideration for a .358, granted, but I've been shooting it out to 375 yards and the Sierra is flat-out deadly at that range, where the Hornady blows around too much in any little breeze.

Anyway, thanks, and keep it coming guys!

Shooting into water filled containers is easier but then there is no 'wound' to see after the shot. I do compare bullets however.

Thus if you are sure that the 200 gr Hornady is ideal for whatever game your talking about then see how much other bullets expand at range and how many cartons they penetrate.

You could set up cartons at say 200 yards or even more and then shoot one set of cartons with the 200 gr Hornady and the other with the 225 Sierra.

This is the kind of stuff that freaks me out a little about this bullet, however:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=702161

There's (15) reviews of it there. Lots of core seperations and a couple poor expansions.

But, I do come back around to this: I'm killing relatively small DEER here. As long as it does expand, I'm golden... I think.

-jeff

Heck Jeff, I think if they're accurate they'll do a good job. Deer aren't hard to kill and even the core does separate, I'm betting it'll still kill like lightning.

Jeff,
I would guess that even if they came apart on a close shot they would do plenty of damage so its not the close range performance you should question(of course you knew that)

So how would the 225 work at 350 yds? Well the next best thing to shooting 30 deer at that range is shooting wet paper at that range. If it were me I might try shooting a positive and negative control as well. A bullet that you expect to expand well and one that I suspect wouldn't like maybe the hornady 250g SP.


Have you played with MD's tac loads for the 200g hornady or the barnes 200 TSX? The added velocity MD demonstrated might help a bit with wind drift and drop. The 200g tsx seems particulary interesting but cost wise I might prefer the 200g hornady.

As far as I can tell none of the cartridges were .358 Wins or smaller but instead larger rounds. Link to 225 Sierra test

Nor were longer ranges mentioned.

I've shot the Sierra 225 SBTs in my Whelen on deer up to 2700 fps MV. Ranges were from 40-125 yds. They work very well and have held together. I haven't recovered any bullets, they've been pass throughs. This was the most accurate bullet I tried in my Whelen.

Jeff-my opinion, they'd be about model perfect and would take deer out with ease to about whatever range you wished.

Dober

Jeff,

If you are thinking about my story,I had problems with another 225 grain bullet,not a Sierra. I think the Sierra would work fine but have only shot them at paper.

Also I quit calling Sierra about bullet performance on game animals,if you talk to different guys there,you can get different opinions. You did your own tests and I'd say you got good results for a deer bullet,maybe iffy on a rhino but dandy on a deer.

Britt

Hey thanks everyone, I appreciate it.

My concern is that from the reviews on the Midway site, and from just info that's soaked into my skull over the last few years (that I've been paying attention to all things .35)... it seems like this bullet has a narrow window between "failed to expand" and "shed it's core"...

But DAMN they shoot good!

I may have solved the thing today. I took my .358 up, re-sighted in with some 225-gn Partitions I had loaded up, and then shot THAT at long range. It did just as well as the Sierra which is to say quite well; very reliable hits out to 375 yards, in a significant breeze no less.

It's interesting to run the numbers... even though the 200-gn Hornady starts out at 2640 fps, it has such a poor BC (.262 if I remember right) that the Nosler or Sierra passes it up real quick. In fact, the Nosler, with it's .450-ish BC (don't feel like going and looking these up again, but that's real close) is still carrying 1800 fps at 375 yards.

So maybe I'll rephrase the question that this thread asks, since some of my favorite 'Fire members, and .35 shooters, are here <g>. "Can you see any reason to use the Sierra, over the Partition? "

Pluses for the Partition are that it's also one heck of a bear load, and elk load... and it's GONNA penetrate, and with that thin front jacket it's gonna expand if anything will... one would think anyway.

As a side note I've never understood why the 225 Partition doesn't get much love from the .358 shooters.

As yet another side note, since so many of you shoot .358's, here's how the B&C reticle works with the 225 Partition (or Sierra) at 2500 fps:

100 yards- zero
250 yards- second crosshair
325 yards- third crosshair
375 yards- little "nub"

And one more final note... I forgot how hard it is to cram 50 grains of I4895 into a .358 case! Anyone use a drop tube for this? Seems like case capacity is always the problem with this cartridge...

-jeff

I should add, but I ran out of final notes there <g>, that I have killed one deer, a forkie buck, with the 225 Partition. It worked great, no complaints.

And one MORE funny thing... the Point of Impact for the 225 Sierra and 225 Partition, with identical powder charges and everthing else, is over 8 INCHES different, vertically at 100 yards!! How crazy is that?! This is obviously due to how it shoots, not because of one dropping more than the other. Wierd. It's by far the most difference I've seen with same-weight bullets.

And that, finally, IS the final note.

I was going to suggest the 225 Partition but seemed like you were getting the Sierra to shoot so well. If I remember correctly the Partition is not a BT but has a higher BC than the Sierra...I'd say if they shoot as well, go with the Partition, IMO, it's still a great design. The soft nose for expansion and the rear to guarantee penetration. The best of both worlds IMO.

Well, you already know my story, but I'll post it again.
Yes, the Sierra's shoot great! We've used them in 3 Whelen's and 2 .358's. All of the rifles loved them, with typical groups sub-moa. Everything shot with the Whelen's appeared to be hit very hard. Always signs of good expansion. The problem came from my brother's .358. He shot a whitetail buck at point blank range, probably less than 15 yards from his treestand. The shot hit the shoulder blade going in and angled down through and clipped a rib on the way out. He dug the bullet out of the ground and it looked like he could load it right back up. Other than the rifling grooves, the nose lead missing, plus a slight bend appearance, you really couldn't tell it had been shot. (no branches around, so it didn't tumble prior to hitting the deer)
The estimated impact velocity was around 2400fps.
This is only one incident and yes, the buck died quickly, but that was enough for the .358 users in our group to quit using the Sierra. They both switched to the 200 Hornady spire point, and it's worked perfectly.

Jeff, IMO, if you are shooting deer at extended range, you'll be asking for trouble with the Sierra.
That's my $0.02. I'll give ya change back if you'ld like.

Jeff: Why hunt with a bullet you have a question about? Use the Partition.

Sounds like you just want some one else to tell you what you already think/know. There isn't anything new about Sierra BT shedding the jacket.It is what they do.I'm not degradinging them I use them also. Everyone I have found to have a shredded jacket was found inside a dead animal.
Ypu might be overlooking something here. I'm not sure if Sierra makes a 225 gr RN in a 35 caliber,but I use a 220 gr RN in my .06 at about 2500 fps
I have killed elk well past 300 yds with them but regularly shoot much less than that and I have never put them on paper at 400yds.They perform and expand very well from 15 yds to 300 yds.

At 300 yds on paper ,I see no differnce in accuracy vs the Sierra 180 gr GK, although the trajectory is a might less due to two different loadings. Out to 300 yds I don't think the Ballistic Coeffeficent means beans.

Sometimes we over look the obvious when searching for the holy grail

Why are you insistent on trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse? The SGK isn't a great game bullet. You've seen core seperation in your own testing. The .358 is certainly not a good cartridge for shooting out to nearly 400 yards. Do you really need to be different that badly?

Get a good tool for the job. A .260, 7-08, or .308 with good bullets will do anything the .358 will do and so much more.

Boy ain't that last line the truth, in so many ways!

I do believe there is a roundnose Sierra. That's an interesting one.

While I am in agreement in general about the BC not mattering, in this case it really does. The BC of the Hornady is SO low, around .260 I believe, that even at a "mere" 300 yards it really moves around a lot more in any kind of breeze, compared to the 225 Partition or Sierra. I forget the BC on the Sierra; the Partition is up above .450 IIRC.

The accuracy of the dang Sierra is intoxicating... I was looking in my shop yesterday and found an old target... 5 of the 225's into .62" center to center at 100 yards. Damn! But I'm hearing enough bad stuff (thanks Teeder) that I just can't go there.

jds,

It's not "just to be different", it's to use what's BEST for me, based on my experiences in the field. That's the .358.

Using the B&C reticle on my .358, I can hit just as consistantly at 375 yards as I can with anything else, which is to say pretty much every time. So it is an equally good tool at that range, compared to a 7-08 (or whatever). I think a .35 caliber, 225-gn bullet at 1800 fps is gonna leave a mark!

As to the Sierra... well... the stubborn person in me just didn't want to think that there could BE a problem with a 225-gn bullet, .35 caliber, on a deer. That's a lot of bullet, and a lightly put-together animal. The core-jacket seperation doesn't really bug me (for deer) but the failure to expand surely does.

Sorry, man!
Maybe it was a fluke!

Kevin, that's GREAT info and much appreciated. I actually usually kill them at more like your 15 yards and a bullet that doesn't expand at that range... is not a bullet I want to use. Fluke or no fluke.

If you aren't absolutely confident in your bullet, even if there isn't a valid technical reason, is reason enough to go with the NPT in my opinion. You can still use the Sierra's for practice, and the number of rounds you send downrange whilst hunting is insignificant.

Which of the two (Sierra or Partition) shoots higher in your long range tests?

I don't understand what you said about it obviously has more to do with how it shoots than the difference in drop. Can you clarify?

It sounds like you've talked yourself into the Partition. I think it's always a good choice.

I don't which one shoots higher... what I was trying to say earlier, and failed at, was that WITH THE SAME ZERO, the Sierra and Partition hit about 8" differently, in the vertical direction, at 100 yards.

So it's not a "drop" issue, it's just... how they shoot. I've seen a couple inches difference with same-weight bullets at 100 yards, especially with TSX's vs. "regular" bullets... but never 8 inches! Just sort of interesting. Makes you wonder how they could be coming out of the barrel so differently as to impact 8" differently at that range.

However, with either one actually zeroed at 100 yards, they impact approximatly the same out to 375 as you'd expect, given their similar BC's.

Did that make sense? It's just the normal thing where bullets from different makers hit a little different spot on the paper, but taken to an EXTREME.

Partition is always a good choice, agreed 100%.

Jeff,
I think you are obsessing a little too much.

Is it hunting season yet?

What Kevin is describing is a fluke occurence. I personally feel this type of stuff happens more that we care to admit about bullets, but normally they aren't recovered for us to obsess about.

Do you want a 225gr in the boiler room or a partition maybe not in the boiler room. This truly is 6 of one and half dozen the other.

On deer this isn't an issue.

Follow your instinct, shoot the crap out of whichever load you choose and go hunting and kill a deer.

CRS

CRS, problem is, I'm sort of changing away from a load I have shot the crap out (and that works really well) and messing with something else... and it's messing with my head <g>.

You are pretty much spot-on.

I won't be able to afford to shoot that Partition load much. But I don't think I need to. 375 yards is not that far, really, and it's hitting very reliably...

You said a mouthful there. Life would be so much easier for all of loonies if we would quit messing with things that work.

I would shoot the Sierra, just don't think you need a partition for deer. If you were going to hunt elk, then I would step up to the partition.

If my rifle shot the Sierra that well, I would not even consider the Partition. The weight of the bullet will more than offset any potential jacket core separation/penetration issues. The accuracy is essential at extended ranges for deer. The caliber diameter makes a decent size hole with even moderate expansion. If you get moderate expansion you will have a sufficient wound channel coupled with deep penetration from any angle. If have have jacket core separation in a deer with that size of a bullet (very unlikely) you will have a massive wound which drop the deer very quickly. The way I see it, with your cartridge for deer hunting an accurate load is the way to go.

Jeff, why not set up some wet newsprint at long distance and see how the bullet does there? My thinking, based on side-by-side comparisons I've done with other 35s at closer distances is that the Sierra GK is a bit hard, probably fine for 200 yard shots when hitting substantive targets (with the 358). At longer distances, I think you'll want a bullet with a softer core which can help get things opened up some. Shooting deer in the rain forests of Oregon with solids seems a bit "iffy" to me, 35 caliber or not.

It seems odd to think of a Sierra that way, Klik, but there's enough reports out there of not-so-good expansion that it does need to be factored in. So I agree. Plus, when I called Sierra, they sort of said the same thing.

I'm just going to use the Partition. It may not have quite the "shock" of the 200-gn Hornady's I've been using (or, maybe it will, I don't know)... but Partitions are soft up front and it should expand reliably. It did put that one deer down fast when I tried one a few years ago and the shot placement was not great, either.

Plus the truth is, most likely I'll be shooting deer at like 40 yards anyway <g>. Or 40 feet. There's just a couple spots that I routinely hunt that used to be beyond the "reach" of my .358, and now they aren't- which was the whole point of this exercise in stretching the legs of this cartridge.

The 200-gn Hornady is, in my opinion, a spectacular bullet for deer from a .358; I love it. However it's not a particularly accurate load in my rifle, and combined with the low BC, it was sucking at longer ranges... I shot a lot of the dang things in the last few months trying to convince myself otherwise, but it's just reality. A switch to 225's and suddenly hitting the 375-yard gong is near-trivial.

That's the trouble with "internet lore." Lots of people assume that a 130 grain 270 - or whatever- which "bombed" on an elk - or whatever, translates to every other Sierra bullet made. The fact is that the GKs made in .338, .358, and .375 are made with thicker jackets and harder cores. And while the cores and jackets sometimes come apart - and perhaps they may disintegrate at 3300 fps impact speeds- the fact is that they still work when used at more moderate speeds - and can penetrate well because those cores are hard. But that same characteristic means that the heavier caliber GKs also may not be ideal at lesser speeds.

Hey Jeff,

Another one you may want to try is the Speer 250. I know it's alot of bullet for deer, but it would have a better BC for longer ranges, and I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Thanks much guys.

Klik, agree 100% and thanks for the info. Just wierd to see the words "Sierra Game King" and "solid" in the same sentence <g>.

I was just up trying out the 200-gn Accubond in my 300 WM Sendero (didn't shoot for [bleep]), so I flung a few more 225 Partitions out into the nether regions from the .358... clank, clank, clank at 325, 375, and 375 yards. I think I'm gonna call it good <g>.

I'll post pics later of the Sierra and Partition that I shot into wet phone books... gotta git to a home inspection now though...

What size deer are we discussing? There are "deer" and then there are "DEER"! Moose are deer and the Northern whitetail is deer. A mature Northern whitetail buck can easily go between 300 to 400 lbs! If we are discussing some Texas whitetail that have heavier racks than body weight, that's another matter entirely!

I'm also a big fan of 35s. I load for my son's 356 Win. Of course, it shoots FPs or RNs only. I've found that AA2015 is far-and-away the best powder for the 250-gr Hornady RN or 240-gr hardcast. My second powder of choice is WW748. 2015 has a lot of energy and 748 gives more powder room. H4895 is a great powder for certain applications but I found it never gave the MV of 2015 or RL-15 in my Whelen or 350 Rems.

Aside from that, I believe the Sierra will work as it should and the Partition MAY expand better at 375 yds but I wouldn't count on it at 1800 fps. I've used Partitions and Sierras and they each will work on "deer" but there are just too many variables to come to exact conclusions. The only way to become an "expert" is to try them. I'd try the Sierra just to discover the variable "truth". Everyone "knows" what a Partition will do. ;)Really???

you could compromise and go with an accubond. I used to shoot the old 225gr BTs in my 358x444 (358JDJ) contender carbine at 2500fps. Only shot one deer with it though. About 100 yards, exited and expansion was obvious.

On that same note the 225gr partion used to be really popular in handgun length barrels as well, velocity around 2200-2250 IIRC. The sierra was claimed to be too tough for reliable expansion at those lower speeds but the part worked great, go figure.

Jeff,

One approach would be to remove the polymer tips frpm 225 accubonds,they are too long at present for some short actions when seated properly. This would let you seat them and get them to feed from your magazine. The bullet would still have a pretty good BC and you could test it for expansion in wet news print .

Just a thought.

Britt

Same here. They are dynamite on deer from a Whelen, and I shot a medium size 5 X 5 elk with them in CO last year. The shot through the shoulder spit the core, but the double lunger did not.

My guess is that they'd be good out to 200yds at least.

But for accuracy, I wish my Ruger .243 shot as good.

I think you are beginning to understand that a hole through the vitails of an animal equals dead. The most dangerous animals on Earth are routinely killed very effectively with solids massive expansion and gargantuan wound diameters are not required for quick kills

Jeff,

I think your "way over thinking" this issue.
Use the Sierra for practice - if you don't trust them and the NP for game. Simple Simon and it saves money to boot.

Thats what I'm doing right now with my .358, but my major target is elk.

Either bullet will harvest a deer as far away as you can hit it. You might want to use the Barnes Bullet shooters trick and try to involve a shoulder, when the range is long.

JM2cents!

Yep, yep, and yep!

Overthinking 'R' Us. Or me anyways.

I wish the Sierra shot to the same POI, or even close... but it doesn't.

Interesting.... mine will group together.

My rifle must be better than yours... laughing

Well I am going to try the 225 grain Sierra as soon as I get a couple boxes of them. I like Sierra bullets and though a few have not ended up looking like the picture in the Corelokts add all have brough game to bag. However I don't think I'd use em at 375 yards starting at 2450 fps.

I'll be looking forward to your range report...

They still have 1800 fps at 375 yards... FWIW... that's Nosler's minimum.

My thoughts, had a M77 SS in 350 RM, loaded 225s both Sierra for deer and NPs for elk, as my buddy bought it as he borrowed it one evening 2 seasons ago, and darned if it brought him good luck, SLAMMED a deer, 10 pt buck NICE at 200 yds w/Sierra, around 2700 it seems for MV. Bullet was BEAUTIFUL pic perfect mushroom and IIRC weighed 158 grains, core intact, found the bullet on off shoulder just under hide, thought I felt bullet when got to deer, later at camp, cut hide and there was the bullet, no problems.

If I were you, shoot the Sierras, a 35 cal slinging 225 grains of lead is doing close to what handgunners throw at deer at FAR less mv and impact vel.

Perhaps you are like many of us and over think things, but that is ok, you are just trying to maximize your success.

Ironically, my buddy booked an elk hunt last season, and the airline regs now would not allow him to carry my handloaded NPs, as they were in a zip lock bag, not a properly marked box.

In a nutshell, he dumped a nice 6x6 at around 150 yds using none other than the lowly factory loaded 200 corelokt!

To your point re: low BC on 200s in 358, that is precisely why for a short mid bore I like the 338 fed as its 200 hornady has a better bc, at close ranges the 35 is fine w/them. I did take and buy some Rem CLs for my 350 as they were cheap, did not shoot near as well as the 225s, and surprisingly plinked a bit with 158 JHPs/JSPs and to 200 yds, very deadly to water filled milk jugs! Would not hesitate one second to bust a deer at 200-250 if I could get a broadside shot thru lungs, it would destroy them I am sure as there is violent expansion going on.

I'd also not worry as to anyone telling you what you can do/or not w/358, or how far.

"Beware of the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it" so that said, the fact that you have practiced more than most and know your rifle/load/scope reticle set up, I'd say any deer w/in 375 yds is yours whether you choose the sierra or np.

Could be possible the nose on the PTs are softer and open further out easier as Rich -tech at Sierra (uses the bullet himself in a 358 Ruger 77 under healthy dose of H335 IIRC for around 2500 mv) assured me the 225 is a stout bullet. I am sure it'd take elk fine. Core separation is not a guarantee of failure, nor a sure correlation of 'lack of desired quick kills' but on an elk, the cost of a box of NP's is cheap vs the hunt as I told my friend.

Sure you have seen this but perhaps others have not:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

Or you could just buy nosler seconds and shoot the 225 partitions for everything and quite worrying about it.

Even if it cost a few bucks more to shoot everyday I bet the difference is still less than a cost of a gallon of gas to get to your range.

Quit making sense now...

FWIW, while the 225 Gameking is hard cored, just like the .338 and .375 heavyweights, it is a bit "light" for the 35 caliber. I would imagine that is the, or part of the, reason for Sierra only showing data up to the Whelen/350 Rem Mag sized cases. I would imagine it would be a fine bullet at 375 yards when launched from a Norma Mag or maybe even the STA. I would also imagine the Nosler BT or AB would be great at 375 - if they shoot well- when propelled by the little Winchester case. Single loading would be required though in order to make the most of the diminutive case volume. (Those really long, plastic-tipped bullets really intrude when seated short enough to feed.)

Klik, that's correct and those who have not loaded for .358 may not realize what a limiting factor that can be.

That 225 Accubond is interesting, but I'd have to grind off the tips.

I've literally called Nosler and begged for a 200-gn Accubond but no dice...

The extra length of the Barnes stuff is an issue in the same way.

-jeff

This is a place where either a 200g accubond/Interbond/sirocco that is short enough to function in a 358 win would be a nice addition.

I really think that a 210gr .358 bullet would be just about perfect for just about any medium 35 out there. Just look at the popularity of the .338 210gr. It's the flagship bullet of their 338 line. powdr

Powdr, that's where the 338F comes in w/210s!

Yeah, a 200 (or 210) from a .35 is not the same thing as a 210 from a .33.. the .33 has significantly better BC and SD. If a guy is into those sort of things <g>.

When I sent my M7 in to Pac-Nor to have them rebarrel it, I debated long and hard about whether to go .338-08, or .358. .338 Federal had not yet been "invented".

A case can be made for either one, and either one is a very cool thing as are .308, 7mm-08, .260, and .243. It's just a fundamentally efficient little powerhouse of a parent case, is .308, IMHO.

I didn't go with .338-08 because there were rumors that someone was going to legitimize it, and I didn't want my chamber to be out-of-spec with whatever the "real" chamber was. In reality, being a handloader, that shouldn't matter but at the time, it did!

I've been extremely pleased with my .358, to say the least. But I'd never say nuthin' bad about a .338 Fed. That right there is a pretty cool cartridge, and indeed the 210 Partition is about perfecto for it!

-jeff

Three years ago Don and I built two 6 1/2 lb (scopes included) 358s for elk hunting here in Az. We have a favorite north facing slope that is perfect for slow stalking. These rifles will be in our hands without slings attached as we ooze around.

We have waited three years for our next tags, have cow tags this year.

Originally I loaded up some 225 Sierras. They shot well. Don's rifle is all set to shoot them. I later loaded up some 225 TSX but the velocities were slow at just over 2300 due to the long bullet seated deeply into the case.

I was given some 358 components from an estate of a friend. There were three boxes of 225 Nosler partitions. Did you know Nosler says the BC of these bullets is .430? It seems hard to believe. I seated some .010" off the rifling and added RL-15. Worked up to 50 grs with no pressure signs 90 degrees, had to be drop tubed and it fit with some compression. 49.5 grs was the most accurate. Man oh man this IS the load for our elk hunt! 2550 fps. It sure whips the barrel up when fired from the bench but very tolerable.

FYI the overall length of these 225 partitions is identical to the 225 Sierra.

In a word, �No.�

In two words, �Hell, NO!�

If you are not confident in the bullet�s ability, as you clearly are not, why would you choose it just because it shoots well? Plenty of other bullets will give you far more accuracy than you need.





Obviously you are comfortable with a Partition � why are you not using it?

I've done some penetration tests with various .358 bullets. At 100 yards, two of three sierra 225's shed their core and one out of three 225 Nosler BT shed its core. Both produced a decent wound channel.

I used a 225 sierra game king on a small 4x4 mulie. The distance was approx. 250 yards and MV 2500+ from my Whelen. The bullet fully penetrated its neck vertebre and exited.

I personaly like the standard cup and core bullets for deer. There is no dought that the 225 sierra will hammer one of your blacktail. If you think you need a premium bullet in the 358, then use the partition.

Azshooter,

How long is the barrel of your .358? I'm not messing with anything this year; the load I have is working. But 2550 is better than I am getting with a compressed load of I4895 from my 20" barrel.

I shot only ONE deer, a big northern whitetail with the Sierra 225 BT out of my .35 Whelen. Load was 56 gr. of IMR 4064, about 2650fps if I recall. Range was about 15 yards, broadside. Through the ribs and lungs, just behind the shoulder and exited. Bullet apparently failed to expand at all. Buck ran about 120 yards before expiring. NO blood trail, thank goodness for good snow tracking conditions. Once is a poor test of any product, but it was was enough for me. I don't use those bullets any more.

... and THAT, dear readers, is exactly what scares me about those bullets. Erratic by definition.

I apologize for posting this again, but it's for a reason... this is an exit from a 200-gn Hornady at a MV of 2625 fps from my .358. This is more what I am used to from this rifle, though I should add that this exit is more dramatic than the other 5 or 6 deer I've .358'd. But to say there was a blood trail, is an understatement (yeah, this crazy little dude RAN a ways with this hole!):



The deer I killed with a 225-Partition didn't have an exit like that, but on the other hand he did just lay down right there and die muy pronto, too.

That 200-gn Hornady is an awesome .358 deer bullet, IMHO, and I feel stupid for messing with anything else... it's just 'cause I'm trying to stretch my rifle's legs a little.

A small exit hole in the hide may not be a good indicator of the internal damage. After all the Deer shot with the Partition had a smller exit yet went down faster.

Good point, John.

Jeff O,

I failed to mention my friend shot a second deer at around 170 yds - a doe w/Sierra/350 RMag and it exited, the HOLE in the hide offside was about the size of a nickel if not quarter, like you punched it, just a clean cut hole, would be great to leak blood should a blood trail be needed, but I doubt it would be very long!

As to the 338F vs 358, I view them as nigh identical - 2 peas in a pod re: performance, a 33 cal 185 barnes/210 partition for anything, the 200 Hornady for deer, and the 358, pick a good 225 and if you want to stop something REAL nasty and ranges are short, sling a 250 ie. Speer. Those 250s have a solid reputation on big stuff.

Ok boys let's keep this thread going. One reason I built my .358 on a Mauser action was to be able to seat bullets 2.780-2.790 and use all of my 22in. Douglas air gauged barrel.I think I'm going to do what AZSHOOTER and his friend are doing and just load the 225 PT at about 2500-2550 for large s.Texas whitetails and be done with it!Man w/that 430 B.C.it will be hard to beat cause it will open at 15yds. or 415yds. I have some 200gr.Honadys-200gr.silvertips and 250gr.older Norma bullets... but everybody knows hogs have to be killed in Texas too. powdr

powdr, the first 358 I think I ever saw, was a local gun show, done on a Mex Mauser, w/good logic, they work well taking advantage of a tad longer mag box.

Jeff,

Just got back to 24 hr...been busy...the barrel is 20". I'll see if I can post a pic of it tomorrow. Have to take the pic in daylight.

After reading all the posts again, I am going to encourage Don to shoot the 225 Partition as well. He can shoot those sierras for practice.

As a general-purpose .358 load, the 225 NP is hard to argue against. A 200 TSX would be another contender I guess.

Here's how this thread has helped me to clarity. I was thinking I'd use the Sierra since my .358 is primarily my blacktail rifle. In all honesty, shed cores and lack of expansion aside, I'm sure the Sierra would kill little blacktails just fine. But, now that I'm all set with the 225-NP (again), suddenly I'm thinking of taking this rifle to Colorado and eastern Oregon for my elk/mule deer hunts! What the heck... this M7 is a friggin' killing machine; it's the rifle that when I am hunting with it, I get that tickle in the pit of my stomach that says, "you are gonna kill something today!".

That 225 Partition at 2500 fps is a bona-fide, first-class elk load, in my opinion. Not saying it's the ideal elk rifle, but it might just be perfect for some days.

The really absurd part of this is that I have KILLED with the 225-NP before. I have even carried it elk hunting a couple days, several years ago. I've gone in a big circle here. Oh well, all bullet questions lead to the Partition, isn't that what the wise man say?

Here is that 358:



It was painted by Rick. Recieved permission from ASAT to copy their pattern.

Lightweight, discontinued, S and K rings, 2.5 ultralight Leupold, Ruger M77 tang safety and a discontinued Mickey Ruger Ultralight stock. Weight 6.5 lbs

Jeff, had decided early not to post further on this subject, but saw some interesting comments that differed enough from my experience I thought I'd take a chance. My Whelen (built on a Rem 700 LA in a Pacific Research stock) shot the 225 Sierras and NPTs with the same loads within 6-26 fps (avg) MV and within 1" of each other at 100 yds. I didn't notice significant POI differences in the 2 bullets, esp vertically, so wonder whether some rifle-specific variables may be at work. As to the performance on game, the photo you posted of the exit wound on your deer with the 200 gn Sierra is very similar to the exits of my 225 Sierras from the Whelen. Given the attainable velocities in the 358 Win (2450 fps) vs the 35 Whelen (2700 fps), IMO we might be seeing a better matched bullet to the 358 in the 200 gn, than the 225 gn designed for the Whelen MV. Sierra GKs, despite all the comments we hear, are jacketed in the larger calibers for impact on tougher game. I'd remind us of Boddington's comments on use of Sierra 300 gn .375 bullets on Cape buffalo, "At standard ... velocity (2350 fps) I simply don't know of any 300-grain 375 bullet that isn't adequate for (Cape) buffalo... I have used 'plain old bullets' like Sierra boattails ... with perfect results." The point I'm trying to make is that matching conventional bullet construction to expected impact velocity and game animal construction are probably very important determinants of terminal performance. Just my $.02 FWIW.

Here is my .358 MRC. 21-inch barrel in a MacMillan Edge stock, olive green with black webbing by Rick Bin. The MRC has a longer mag box in the SA, but the throat seems short on my rifle. I have shot a 1/4-inch group with 250 gr Hornady spire points, and the 225 gr Partition shots under an inch consistently. I got some good groups with the 225 TSX, but I haven't tried the 200 gr version. The guy at Barnes told me to stick with the 225 gr TSX for Africa, but I ended up using the Partition as it grouped better.

Calif. Hunter, how did the 225 Partition do for you in Africa?? My .358 also has a very short throat, but then my mag box is short too so it doesn't hurt me.

Wildcatter, thanks for the post. Just a clarification. The 200-gn bullet I'm using, the one that made that exit, is a Hornady SP. I'm not aware of a 200-gn Sierra spitzer...

I agree with you on all points. I sure WISH those 225 Sierras would hit to the same POI and the 225 Partitions! It's unbelievable how far away they hit. Oh well.

I'm thinking that the Partition, which is notably "soft" up front, will be a more reliable expander than the Sierra. Thoughts?

They expand about the same in my Whelen, but I like the Noslers better so I mainly shoot those. However never shot anything really big, like an elk or moose with it, only deer and hogs and only recovered those shot N to S, never E to W...

Jeff - the Partition worked well on the kudu and waterbuck I shot with it. I stopped shooting that rifle, though, as the W-748 load I was using was very compressed and it actually filtered through the primer flashole and backed the primers out far enough to soften the firing pin strike. I got tired of a "click" instead of a "bang." I had not experienced that here since I did not have the rounds sitting around for a while. The loads I took to Africa had been loaded a month or so prior. It seemed like it took some time for it to happen.

I had them loaded to a bit over 2500 FPS.

I used the 225 GK out of a .35 Whelen on a Texas doe and a feral hog. In both cases, the bullet apparently didn't expand much, though each animal died and was recovered. I sold the rifle to my brother in Missouri and he uses 200 gr. Hornady's. They absolutely flatten deer with exits like the one shown in Jeff_O's picture. Therefore, for deer I'd go with the Hornady.

Very nice!! Do you happen to remember what the stock weighed? I'm thinking I could like a long action version of that to compliment my MKII 338.

Those stocks only work on .35's!

Jeff - with that scope, I'd put some lower rings on that rifle! It's a nice rig, as is - just my preference.

That's not my .358. This is my .358:



Scope is as low as it can go <G>.

I use the 225 Sierra almost exclusively in my 358 for deer and black bear (1 coyote) with great success. Most shots at deer were under 200 yards and all but two passed clean through, and those that didn't expanded nicely retaining their jacket. I will continue to use them in my 358. I tried the 358 NBT/Accubond but they're too long for my rifle's magazine. I do use them in my Whelen, however. Lou

The Ultralight Ruger stock has been discontinued for several years. I got lucky when I asked about getting my second on 24.It was listed on McMillan's website. Dick Davis chimed in and said it was discontinued and had it removed from their website. I got lucky, Rick had one and generously sold it to me.

As for the scope being high it isn't that high at 1.6". The "eyebox" on this tiny scope is large. Combine the 2.5 power with a heavy plex and it is one fast rig for close work.

Unfortunately even with the heavier Ruger rings the scope sits at the same height. Rugers just don't have low rings.

Very nice, Jeff! I could hunt with that!

It does good in the rain- very important <g>.

It's heavy, by Campfire standards, but it's balanced really well and it feels really SOLID. Like a weapon or something.