I did a search in this forum for using the .25-06 on Elk. I couldn't find anything.

I have been thinking that's its low recoil and using a Barnes X-bullet maybe just the thing. As I get older, I like the punishment of the big magnums less.

The only person I know that regularly used a .25-06 for elk was Bob Milke (SP?), out of WY. I think his forte' was the single shot handguns.

The 115-120gr bullets have a low S.D., and this creates in me a concern. Any thoughts on the .25-06?

Prospector

I shoot a .25-284, which is the ballistic twin of the .25-06. I shoot the 100 grain Barnes XLC bullets at 3,500 fps and have NO problem hunting elk or moose with them. I shot a Texas longhorn last year at 100 yards roughly, and the bullet broke the near shoulder and was found under the skin on the off side. He didn't stay on his feet long. My wife absolutely loves shooting this round and it really jerks the rug out from under stuff with the XLC bullet. Flinch

Flinch,

I recently aquired a .25-06 and plan to use it for deer this season. I have no experience with it or with a .25-284. I have reloaded handgun ammo for a few years, but have yet to start reloading for rifle (next project).

Could you recommend some good factory ammo in .25-06 for deer and elk?

Any reloading tips for rifle reloading would be appreciated as well. Going to start reloading the for the .25-06 and .30-06. I'm in Germany with the military right now and will be moving back to the States next month. Got the basics for handgun reloading, but not sure how fast I'll set up for the rifle - plus I want to brush up on the manuals, so I don't know if I'll have worked out a handload for hunting this year or not.

Anyway, whatever info you can share would be great.

Thanks,

PRP

I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice here. IMHO, the 25-06 is a great deer round with the 100-120 grain bullets, possibly lighter pills if in the Barnes X mode, but is mighty marginal for Elk.
Just about anything will work if you have the perfect shot placement and time to pick your shot, but that just doesn't seem to happen very often with elk. If you are going to elk hunt more than once, I can just about guarantee you won't get the perfect shot presentation most of the time. That is when you need a big, high BC bullet that will plow through bone, muscle, and organs from any angle and do lots of damage. The 25-06 just ain't that cartridge. No 25 caliber bullet, no matter how well constructed, is going to do the internal damage of a good .30, .33, or .35 caliber bullet.

Prospector, you might want to consider going to a .270 or 30-06 with X bullets, or a 35 Whelen. Recoil can be painful as you get older, but it is only for one or two shots. You can practice at the range with lighter rifles, then hunt with your chosen elk rifle and still shoot darned well as long as the rifles are very close to weight, size, and function. What is REALLY painful is tracking a wounded bull into a hell hole of a canyon and then having to bring it back out. I like to drop them close to where they are shot- from whatever angle presents itself as long as I can reach the vitals and break shoulders.- Sheister

I would say that the 25-06 Rem or 25-284 is more than enough for any cow elk or spike. If your talking big bull elk, my minimum would be any well placed 7mm, 154-160 grain bullet.

Well, considering that I have taken an elk with a 6mm Remington and an 85 grain bullet, the .25-06 Remington with a 120 grain bullet should do the job very nicely, if you do your part and put the bullet where it counts.

As long as you remember what is in your hands at the time of the opportunity, you should be fine. Despite what others might lead you to believe, it can't do the same things a .338 could in every situation, so pick your shots carefully and don't be tempted to stretch it beyond its abilities.

Keep in mind a bullet like a 130 XLC out of a .30-06 will have practically the same recoil as a 130 grain bullet out of a .25-06. A 120 grain bullet vs. a 130 is all but the same. Another option that I am headed towards is a .308 and 168 grain Barnes triple shocks in a very light weight rifle for those brutal high country hunts.

I'm sure it'll work just fine. Hell, my friend just got back from Adak Island and took 2 caribou with a 223 and hollow points. And they say it's too small for deer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Go figure.

I've watched the .25-06 kill elk class critters for years. Like Shiester says not for fanny shots or snap shooting in the brush. Even the .338 has a tough time with that.
But work they do. Keep in mind even with a solid hit from a .338, they can go a long way.
I see Federal makes both their Throphy Bonded bullet ( 115 gr.), the Nosler Partition (115 gr.) and the Barnes XLC (100 gr.) in their line of Premium ammo. Cabela's sells it. This is what I would use. The standard Remington Cor-Loks and Winchester PEP don't always exit. They do break a near shoulder well, however.
You want to keep in mind that the smaller rds. loose their velocity and energy much faster as the range increases as well. I wouldn't want to take a shot much over 250 yds. with one. E

Here's one of those topics that confuses me..... The 257 Weatherby is often cited as being enough for elk but the 25-06 is not? And the reasoning behind that is, what?

The double radius venturi? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry PDS, I had to.

Pick Your shots well, and You will do just fine. Not the caliber I would go with tough. I draw the line for elk sized game at 6,5 mm caliber.

The sectional density of a 120 gr. .257 bullet is .260. That compares well to a 140 gr/277, 150 gr/284, or a 168 gr/.308. That's pretty good company.

If someone likes hunting with a bazooka.....that's cool, but we all know that bullet construction careful placement are the keys. Light recoil can be a major factor there.

JimF

Jim.

I agree with you that bullet construction and placement are the keys here, but one must remember that we also have a duty to kill the animals we hunt in a human way. A small cal will allow a large animal to stay on their feet for a longer period than it would with a 7 mm or a 308. If one goes to low in cal selection you will end up with a caliber wich not always are up to the job. A 200 grs 30 cal bullet has the same SD as a 300 grs 375 cal or a 535 grs 510 cal bullet, but that does not make the 300 win mag or the 30-06 an elephant or buffalo rifle.

Of course less recoli has it`s benefits. I am not saying that you should use a powerhouse of cartridge that one can`t controll, but one should not use a to small cal for the game you want to take. Anyone can handle the recoil of a 7X57, 270 win, 260 or similar, so it is not really nessesary to use a cal less than 6,5 mm.

A 25 cal bullet is small, but it will do the job for sure if one pick shots that are close to optimal.

Prospector, the .25-06 is more than adequate for elk and even big elk. I have personally witnessed WAY too many elk kills with .25-06 rifles to think otherwise. One of the biggest bulls was a huge 6x6 that was shot through both shoulders at 75 yards. The bullet exited and the bull dropped. All of my in-laws use .25-06 rifles and plain old Remington 100 grain factory ammo. I can't tell you how many bulls they have killed, but a bunch, clear out to 350 yards. I have seen them do it many times. They are HORRIBLE shots and don't wait for good shot angles, but they get their bulls every year and they don't lose any. I really like the Federal 115 grain Trophy Bonded bullets. They stay together VERY well and plow through heavy bone. The 117 grain Hornady flat base factory ammo is really good stuff for elk and deer as well. Pick your shots and you will be fine. Flinch

Just for the hell of I'll give the other side of the coin. First off I have never hunted elk although I will be going for the first time this year with BP. However I have a casual aquaintance I run into once a month or so who is a hard core eastern deer hunter and a year round shooter.
Last year he mentioned he would be going on a elk hunt using his bread and butter 25 06 with Rem. 120 core lokt's. I mentioned I felt it was on the light side however did'nt push it as I said I have no actual experience. Ran into him a month after the hunt with a sheepish look on his face. Story goes that he shot a big cow at 75 yards behind the shoulder ,he says that he even saw the blood spot. The cow basically ran up and over the mountain and he lost her. Turns out he hit another one too and lost it. Now I know you can't say what happened on a unrecovered animal but I do know from talking to this guy and people that know him that he is a good shot and one who comes home usually with what he shoots at. However he says next time he goes it will be with a 30 cal. with 180's. Would it of made a difference who knows but I think you should plan for the worst and try for the best. Being that elk can range from under 500 # to well over 800 lbs. that is quite weight range. I hear people argue over the 243 for deer and guys from the big plains say,"well, our deer can be over 300 lbs. on the hoof." as a reason the 243 is too light for them. I can't help but think a .243 is a much better deer round than the 25 06 is a elk round. Personally if I was looking for a light recoiling elk round I think a 260, 6.5x55, or 7mm08 shooting 140's would be a much better place to start regardless of how the KE numbers match up with a nod to the 7mm08. A 30 06 with 168 xlc'c and a recoil pad is'nt much of a recoiler either and would be up to snuff for any elk at a reasonable angle I'd wager. As far as thinking bullets of differing caliber but equal S.D.s traveling at the same speed being pretty much equal go shoot some big stones with both and see what that extra weight really means when it encounters something. If the bullet has to go through a section of a full paunch that can really eat up some energy. I have no doubt the 25 06 will kill elk all day long when things are right but think there are better choices for when "Murphey's law" comes into play without going to the big magnums.

My friend shot a mature bull at 30 yards with his 25-06 in 2001. Took the first shot to the lungs, second to the shoulder area while departing, and a third one in the neck, killing it. Load was a 120 gr. Speer Grand Slam handload. The only shot to exit was the broadside lung shot. It killed the bull, but who knows how far it could of gone if he didn't break its neck.

I don't suggest a 25-06 for elk, but it will work with very good bullets, and excellent shooting. 100 & 115 gr. X bullets, 120 gr. Swift A-Frames, and 115 gr. TBBCs would be the only bullets I'd sling at an elk from a 25 cal. Better yet to go to a 28 cal, and shoot a premium 160 or 175 gr.

While there is no doubt that you can kill elk with a 25-06, considering the hunting conditions, and the number of times you might get to go, plus the liklihood of finding a huge trophy elk, I believe it is unwise to use a small cartridge.

I don't care how many kin have killed big elk at 350 yards, the 25-06 is not the equal of a 30-06 or better yet one of the .338 cartridges. Sooner or later there will be wounded and lost animals, and maybe there has been and no one knew it.

You might wound and lose an animal with most any cartridge, but if you do it with a small caliber such as the .25 you will regret that you did not use a larger cartridge.

If recoil is that much of a problem, at least settle for one of the 6.5s with 140 or heavier bullets.

I would not use the 25-06. If that were the only rifle I had, and I got a chance to go bull elk hunting, I would buy or borrow another and larger rifle.

Jerry

Hmm...1/8" of skin and an inch of ribs to get to the vitals. Yup, the .25 is way too light, but the .270 is great with 10 grains more bullet weight. I never understood that thinking. Elk are bullet proof, especially for guys that have never hunted them. I have lived with them and hunted them since I was a kid. I have killed large and small bulls, as well as cows. I have used an assortment of rifles and the worthless bow and arrow. I don't know how many I have killed. They just aren't hard to kill! I have watched them drop on the spot hit with .243's and .25-06's. Two last year didn't go 100 yards after taking an arrow. Make a bad hit and it doesn't matter what you shoot them with. I personally know a guy that hunts them with a .375 HH. He has lost two bulls for two shots! Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. Yes, .30-06 is a better choice, but the gentleman asked if the .25-06 was enough for elk. It most certainly is when GOOD bullets and marksmanship are practiced. Flinch

If I had only two rifles, one a 25-06 and one a 30-06, assuming both shoot equally well with bullets of say 120 grains and 180 grains respectively, and further assuming that carrying either gun was immaterial. What on earth would get into me to take the 25-06 on an elk hunt? All I can think of is that I would want to brag about how I shot my elk with a minimal caliber. I am sure somebody has killed an elk with a golf ball. Does that make it an appropriate projectile? I don't think so.

I can just hear your brain working now.....Why, if I can kill one with a 25-06, next year I think I'll take my 243 Winchester just to prove my point. Maybe take my Dad's old 25-35 the year after that. Heck, why not even the ol' Swift. I am sure that will kill an elk too. Now, that would really prove to everyone that I am a GREAT hunter, wouldn't it?

Think about it. Where is the logic in doing such a thing? What if you shot a nice animal and then lost it and deep down within your soul you knew it was because you were under-gunned or under-bulleted? Would it be worth it then?

Respect your game and use an adequate firearm and bullet. Don't attempt to do the deed undergunned and be sorry. For you, wounding an elk is only a messed up target and hopefully a bad memory. For the elk, it is an unnecesarily long, lingering death. But, on the other hand, if you don't give a rip, go ahead. Go undergunned!

Flinch, the spirit of the original post was around low recoil. There are better options than the .25-06. Period.

Guess it comes down to your mindset for your chosen weapon/stick and then sticking to the limitations of it when that bull of a lifetime or whatever for that matter gives you a poke and hope for your weapon/stick opportunity.

I'm sure a 25 06 with x bullets would be a pretty potent elk slayer. Alot of other moderate cartridges might perhaps be better using heavy for caliber x bullets. You have the no experienced putting in their two cents(:>) to the experienced saying horrible shots with little concern for angle or distance routinely put them down with 100 grain factory fodder and never lose an animal. Thats funny from my end. My guess is that they are not such horrible shots,they know the anatomy, and they consider it.

I've killed elk with 11 different calibers. Including the 25-06. It's a matter of ethics and shot placement. You can be very satisfied with the 25-06 if you follow these two rules. Take an ethical shot and put one in his boiler room. The elk will go down. Use a quality 120 grain bullet if at all possible and enjoy the shooting. The 25-06 is not a kicker and I have found that it shoots very flat. A big bonus. I personally know an old man thats killed over 50 elk with the ol 25.

Though I would agree with some on this board, the ol 270 is a better choice, but if a 25 is all ya got, ya still got a great rifle. IMHO

later days
270 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"While there is no doubt that you can kill elk with a 25-06, considering the hunting conditions, and the number of times you might get to go, plus the liklihood of finding a huge trophy elk, I believe it is unwise to use a small cartridge."

Nice to see some fellers with sense. Especially relevant is the "number of times" statement. A feller with patience thet's got all season to kill a bull is a differnt story than a feller with a week to find and kill the trophy of a lifetime. He's the guy thet's gonna take a marginal shot, under marginal conditions, using a marginal cartridge.

I dont really see the difference, what is good for the out of state guy should be good for the local hunter too. We shouldnt try to justify bad shots on elk by using bigger rifles for non resident hunters. IF it s bad shot, pass and wait for a better one if it comes up. Besides, our elk seasons are only a day or two over a week anyway, so a local hunter here doesnt have a huge advantage by hunting all season.



If all i had was a 25-06 i would use it on elk. If a guy shoots one well, and its all he has then use it. I certainly think a 308 is better suited to elk, and if i was buying a rifle for elk hunting, it wouldnt be the 25-06, it would be a 30 caliber or larger. A better low recoil rifle for elk is the 308 winchester.

With no elk experience, my views here aren't worth much, but I have shot my share of elk-sized animals elsewhere . If I was in the woods deer hunting with a 25.06, or 257 Weatherby and happen to run across an elk ( provided of course it was legal for me to dod so) would I attempt the shot? you bet and I would feel pretty comfortable too. Now if I was planning an elk hunt would I choose a 25? absolutely not. An 06' would be a minimum, a 300 even better and a 33 better yet. jorge

[color:"blue"] [/color]



I totally agree with you, Jorge. To me, this thought falls into the same general category as "Never take a knife to a gun fight".





Strength & Honor...



Ron T.

if any elk see's me and a 25-06 drift in they would wish they were on there way to a knife fight, its for real it ain't the arrow its the indian although the 25-06 is one hell of an arrow

I have shot several elk in the last 24 years, and I use an /06 to hunt with. I started out using the 150 gr, found out quickly that it was too small. Then switched to the 165gr, hunted that for years, but the bullets were breaking up under 100 yds so last year switched to the 180s. I have never lost an elk, but a 25/06 would not be my gun of choice. An elk is a very heavy boned animal and there's just too much that can go wrong. All of the bullets I mentioned worked great on deer and antelope. I just can't imagine using a 100 gr bullet on elk. I do know a guy that used a 243 wildcat and 100 gr bullets and I watched him shoot an elk at 300 yds with it one year. It took six shots to do it and one finally got through and killed it. I watched him skin it and seen the bullets just curled up under the skin. I guess my point here is, if you have a choice keep the 25 for deer and smaller, use the bigger stuff for the elk, it's the right thing to do.

One other thing guys, I have shot lots of animals here in Montana. I really don't think of one animal that I heard the shot or even felt the recoil. I was way too invoved in makeing the shot to even pay attention to that. You feel recoil at the range, not in the field, at least that's my expierence.

We constantly hear how recoil is not felt while shooting at game. I believe that's true (unless the shooter wears his scope).

However, the fact that you don't feel the recoil for that one game shot does not mean that you did not flinch. A flinch is almost totally subconcious and the shooter who flinches is not aware of it.

A flinch happens before the shot (think about it) and the flich is developed and ingrained while shooting at the range. If the shooter fliches at the range from a rifle that is beyond his personal recoil tolerance, he absolutely guaranteed will flinch (probably worse) when excited by the prescence of a live target. The resulting possibility of a miss (or worse) a bad hit is what wise shooters try to avoid.

Most shooters who shoot rifle/cartridge combos that are beyond their tolerance are not aware of it or are too fat headed to admit it. I see guys all the time at the range who will point to the two holes near the bull on their target and say "she's all sighted in and ready to go" They often are blissfully ingoring the other two or three (or even 6 or 7) shots that are scattered across the paper.

I'm not advocating nor damning the 25-06 for elk. I'm suggesting that the shooter who stays within his tolerance has better odds of a clean kill regardless of the caliber chosen. The tolerance is personal and can't be quantified by anyone except the individual shooter.

JimF

Hey Prospector, I have noticed that you seem to like to bring up cartridges that are on the very low power side for elk, i.e. The .357 and the .25-06. Why dont you just go with a bigger cartridge that can do the job better, and why start all of this controversy?

NH_Hunter

With a .25-06 you are far better equipped for elk than Lewis and Clark were, and well behind Teddy Roosevelt's gear (though you have a wider selection of bullets than TR did).

Prospector,

Seems like there is a whole truck-load of cartridges between the 25-06 and the big magnums that will work better. Take a look at the 280 Remington with 154 or 162 gr. bullets. There's a lot to be said for shoot the most potent cartridge you can shoot well for elk and above. Sure a 25-06 will work but there are a lot better with out magnum size recoil.

Snuffy

rbore,

There is a large difference in the performance of the typical, copper jacketed, bullet and premium bullets. While a 165g, 30 cal bullet of traditional construction may be lacking at times, there are 165g bullets that perform well on elk without "breaking up". Try one of the premium brands that shoots well in your rifle and report back.

HogWild

HogWild,
yes I know that now. And I still might go back to the premium bullets yet. I don't switch until I shoot something at 50 and at 200 yrds plus. When I do then I make the choice to change. I grew up with one brand of bullets, I just never looked anywhere else. Actually it was my boys that turned me on to those good bulltes. It funny that you said that, because that's exactly what I was saying to my older boy, I should have stayed with the 165 but with a higher quality bullet. Thanks for the info.

NH Hunter

If you'll look at my original post, you'll see that I do use a magnum. The original thought of this post is less recoil and thoughts on the .25-06 with a premium bullet.

As far as just agreeing with what every one has to say would be pretty boring. No controversy intended, but I wanted to gather info from others experience. I just recently took notice that the late "BoB Milek" used the .25-06 on elk and did quite well with one. This made me inquire to others experience.

As far as the .357 mag. I've always liked this caliber (and probably I just want to justify another new gun) and you read a lot in print about it being underpowered (I wouldn't pick it as a primary arm for hunting large animals). A number of polsters in that forum (handguns) have made interesting comments in regards to its power, and from a practical standpoint of experience.

Prospector

how about a fine 358 in a blr? mine is as sweet as pie and kicks much less than my 350 mag while being right behind it in trajectory.
or maybe a model 7 in a 358? big bullets, big holes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
woofer

The .25/06 with good bullets constitutes a .270 lite. It will kill elk. I would under most circumstances prefer a little bit more gun, such as a .270 and 150 grain bullets.I have friends that have taken on elk with both .250 Savage and .25/06 and did OK. Just put them where they need to go.AW

Maybe a 7mm Mag would be a bit more adequate eh Adobe? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AW.... maybe you start a post on how effective the 7mm. mag is. I really would like to hear your opinion. Personally I have found it quite effective.


bcboy

bcboy - Or, how about that 45-70?

Regards, sse

sse!

Heresey I say!! I sure doo....shootin elk with a 45-70 when I got me a new fangled 348.

Always...bcboy

I've killed more elk than most and I've guided quite a bit for elk in my younger years. Here are my opinions, and please recognize that they are based on field experience.



Hell yes, the .25-'06 is plenty big enough for elk, but it depends on the bullet. I've killed fair bulls with the 100-grain Nosler Partition in .25-'06. Hey, with a good lung shot, they go down like lightning.



In my opinion, heavy bullets don't kill well in the .25-'06 because it compromises the velocity. Speed and a great medium-weight bullet KILLS.



These days, with limited opportunity, more and more hunters rely on the "wisdom" of some of the established gun writers. Being part of the writing bunch, I realize that some of them are lacking both knowledge and experience. I'm happy to say that that comment does not apply to the writers on this forum.



In my guiding, the typical hunter showed up with a 7Mag and 175-grain hard bullets. Didn't kill worth crap. If the same hunter had come into camp with 139-grain Hornadys, 140-grain Nosler Partitions or 154-grain Hornadys, he would have been delighted with his kill.



Our worst experience was with a hunter who brought a new (with hanging tags) Model 70 .375 H&H with a 6.5-20 Leupold. Of course, he hadn't bothered to sight it in and missed a good bull on the first day. He picked up a couple of dings on his eyebrow from shooting at the bull with the short eye relief scope. He picked up a couple more when he zeroed the rifle in camp. By that time, he was totally afraid of the rifle.



He eventually killed a fair bull with my .308, loaded with 150-grain Partitions. Last I heard, he thought that the .308 was a magic gun. Actually, what he was experiencing was the wisdom of using a moderate cartridge and a great bullet. His guide, that would be me, assured that he was close enough to make the package (shooter and cartridge) effective.



My best guided hunter shot a 6.5X55 Swede and 125-grain Partitions. He was a retired mail man who wasn't afraid of canyons and could walk. He would never shoot beyond 200 yards and he shot both lungs every time. One shot--one dead elk, year after year.



What I'm trying to say, is with some common sense, good hunting techniques and fairly proper bullet placement, the 100-grain Partition in the .25-'06 will serve you just fine.



Good luck,



Steve

I tried to edit the above and I was past the edit time limit.

The thought struck me that folks might think that I was all for using the .25-'06 as a primary elk rifle. That's not true.

If I was hunting deer with a .25-'06, had an elk tag in my pocket and a a bull volunteered to be killed, I'd surely take the shot. I've killed a enough elk with a .25-'06 to know thaat it works fine.

Also, if I was counting pennies and was primarily a deer hunter, but an occasional elk hunter, the .25-'06 would be OK.

Would I personally use the .25-'06 as a primary elk rifle? NOPE. Nor would I use the hard-kicking .300 Ultra, which is on the other end of the spectrum.

My perfect elk cartridge, at least at my current state of evolution, would be the .280 Ackley Improved with 140-grain Nosler Partitions. I've killed several bulls with 140 Ballistics and they work well, but the Partition adds just a little insurance.

I'm currently working with the 6.5-'06 Ackley and, in time, it might prove to be even better than the .280. For now, however, my vote would have to be for the .280 Ackley and 140s.

Steve

Steve,

I haven't been following this thread. But, whatever happened to your .338-06? Several years ago I built one because of an article you wrote in Handloader. Am currently on my third one. Actually just finished it last weekend. Sucks Adl. with a Metalife SS finish bored by Al Siegrist. I had the bbl cut to 20 7/8" before being Metalifed. Dropped it into a Brown factory Rem. FS stock. Bare bones gun weighs 6 lb. 8 oz. Expect a Leuppie 6x42 will complete the package. Maybe Talley Lwt rings. Should be a joy to carry. Just wondered what you think of the .338-06 now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

9.3Guy

Hey 9.3,

Great cartridge. Goodness knows I've killed enough elk with it. Love the old 200-grain Winchester Power Point or the 210-grain Partition in the cartridge.

As I get older, however, I find myself getting more and more allergic to recoil. At the same time, it seems that game needs less killing. Dunno what's happening.

Hell, the last two big bulls I killed (both 6X6s) were with the 7-08 Ackley and 120-grain Ballistics. Bulls just fell down - probably in defference to my age. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Chub still uses the .338-'06 a great deal and he really likes the 200-grain Ballistic (very, very heavy jacket)

Steve