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I am looking to enlist one of the commercially available tag applications services to help me apply for tags in desirable hunting areas. Does anyone have any experience with either the U.S. Outfitters or Cabela's TAGS services? Pros and/or cons of either? Obviously the U.S. Outfitters� service is more restrictive since one has to use one of their guides if successfully drawn- anything else that I need to know about?


Thanks,

KW
If you are planning on applying for anything in AZ. Call Duwane Adams! Can't help you in any of the other states, but here in AZ, call Duwane. He'll take good care of you and steer you the right way.

I heard Cabelas TAG service screwed a bunch of hunters or potential hunters out of the AZ draw, then tryied to get AZGFD to allow them into the draw after the deadline had expired and screw the people who got theirs in on time. I don't know the whole story, but thats what I heard. Besides that, they are a decent system as far I know.

USO had that big law suit against western states, and I am sure that cost a pretty sum to the states. No use for them, but thats me. I met the owner of USO in the border town of Naco one year. Seemed like a nice man. We just have differences in state rights and business decisions. Can't fault the man. I have heard good things about their service too.

In any event, I am sure they are great for other states, but if I was looking in AZ i'd call Duwane.

Kique
There are a few application services. Some specialize in certain species and states. Garth Carter- Huntin Fool is another you might look into. If I was interested in a service I might want to go with a smaller service that was more personal like Larry Altimus' Hunter Application Service(H.A.S.) Sorry for clouding the situation more! I would stay away from U.S.O. just for the fact that you have to use them. Which might not always be the best choice.
I would second garth carter of the HUNTINFOOL, small enuff operation that they will always answer your calls. i do all my app's myself, but if i didnt, i'd use carters over cabela's (missed the arizona deadline last year)or uso, (which arent really popular folks out west anymore).
That is too important of a process in my life to entrust to another individual.
Thanks for the info guys.

1Minute, I appreciate your position but even an unreliable service would have a better record of getting the applications in than I do. My work/travel schedule is at its heaviest at the time of year when applications are due- keeping up with them is pretty tough on the road.
+1 on what Enrique said. I wouldn't touch Cabelas TAGS or USO with a ten foot pole.
Originally Posted by Woodhits
Thanks for the info guys.

1Minute, I appreciate your position but even an unreliable service would have a better record of getting the applications in than I do. My work/travel schedule is at its heaviest at the time of year when applications are due- keeping up with them is pretty tough on the road.
I'll do it for you for $1000! wink Seriously... laugh

Once one gets the hang of it, it's really not that hard. I have a spreadsheet of when, what's due, where. Plus, if you it online they save your information, so it all reality once you get set up it takes about 3 hours a month!
pointer:

How do you know what units to put in for? I have thought about using a service also because I don't have a good idea what is the best state or unit.

Scott
Originally Posted by SWJ
pointer:

How do you know what units to put in for? I have thought about using a service also because I don't have a good idea what is the best state or unit.

Scott


subscribe to Huntin' Fool (Gart Carter), mentioned above.

they've gotten much bigger over the years but still have very good info by state. well worth the $100/year
Picking a unit takes a bit of work, but once you have it down your done. First, YOU have to define best. Some states and species I'm much more interested in just getting to go than I am getting to hunt in a 'trophy' unit. Carter's Huntin Fool is a good place to start, especially if your focus is on trophy units. Otherwise, pay attention to hunting message boards and ask questions. You'd be surprised at the info you can glean from these boards.

Does that help?
I've used Larry Altimus of HAS for many years, and highly recommend him. I also subscribe to Huntin' Fool. Consider that many other hunters also do, and thus their highly rated units will generally attract lots of applicants, resulting in lower draw odds. If you want to play it safe and go for highly rated units, then Huntin' Fool is a good way to go. If you're looking for the "dark horse", then using someone like Larry is a better choice. The older I get (53 now), the more I am thinking that applying for the very best units might not be the wisest approach...I may be dead or too old to use the tags if and when drawn. That's something only you can decide: would you rather have (maybe) one lifetime hunt in a state like AZ, UT, or NV for a trophy, or perhaps two or three hunts in lesser units?
The upside of applying for a trophy unit. Is you never know when you will draw a tag. I drew a Kaibab late season hunt on my first try. I was 15. I have put in numerous times since and have yet to draw again.
If you are growing in age and still getting snuffed on the tag. Then you always have the option of applying those points to a lesser unit and draw a lesser unit with above average to trophy size game.
So you apply for the best for 5 or 10 years. Decide you are tired of not drawing and then baMmm! you say well its not the late Kaibab or AZ strip, but I can still kill a above average buck on the early Kaibab hunt. Why not? You apply and draw then kill a buck better than you hoped for.

Thats my view.
Sure, any info helps! I like to hunt not just kill trophies for the wall. I agree "best" and "trophy" are in the eye of the beholder. A good hunt where I learn something, work hard and have a fun time is as important as the size of the animal. But, I would be the first to shot a great animal if the chance was there. Also, being from the midwest, I would like a chance at a good animal because I can't or won't likely go back to the exact same place the next year out west. I will likely try for a few years to draw some great tags until I get sick of not getting drawn and then for some good tags.
"I will likely try for a few years to draw some great tags until I get sick of not getting drawn and then for some good tags."

Remember that most great tags will take many years to draw: more than 10 in many instances. Take Nevada's unit 161 early elk. In 2007 there were 2188 non-resident applicants for one tag.

Just remember that however bad the odds are, they're better than if you don't apply. Give yourself a good five to ten years, apply in multiple states, and your odds of getting a great tag will become significant.
Bob:

I'm 39 and willing to give it 5-7 yrs before using points on plan B. However, I doubt I would ever apply for a 1/2188 chance tag.

Scott
SWJ: "the rest of the story" on the NV tag was that a hunter drew the 1 in 2188 tag the first year he applied. Many applicants had points in the high teens and didn't. Go figure.
Huntin fool has alot of great info. I use cabelas TAGS and have never had a problem. Eric is great to work with. I would not hesitated to use them.
Bob33: I am much more persistent than lucky! That's why I would target something with a 5% chance of a draw.

Scott
I know what your saying about work and travel schedules. I don't use anyone and probably should. My long time hunting partner used US for many years and did fine, some years well, some just OK. He then switched to Cabela's and has had two good hunts in a row. While either will probably help I would go Cabelas. A friend of mine who got his NM guide license just to handle the land owner tags his Dad gets every year said he got a call from US who wanted to hire him for the next season on the spot, no qualifications or background check of any kind.
[bleep] USO.
Originally Posted by Bob33
I've used Larry Altimus of HAS for many years, and highly recommend him. I also subscribe to Huntin' Fool. Consider that many other hunters also do, and thus their highly rated units will generally attract lots of applicants, resulting in lower draw odds. If you want to play it safe and go for highly rated units, then Huntin' Fool is a good way to go. If you're looking for the "dark horse", then using someone like Larry is a better choice. The older I get (53 now), the more I am thinking that applying for the very best units might not be the wisest approach...I may be dead or too old to use the tags if and when drawn. That's something only you can decide: would you rather have (maybe) one lifetime hunt in a state like AZ, UT, or NV for a trophy, or perhaps two or three hunts in lesser units?


Makes a lot of sense!
I was severely mislead (you interpret mislead) by Eric at Cabela's TAGS. And, I have the documentation to prove it. I would give up hunting before I gave them another dime.
I subscribe to Huntin Fool and Eastmans, then call the fish and game before I pick a new unit to put in for. My problem is I am running out of time for a truly big bull area. Don't really know what to do about it either. Will hunt two possibly three states this year.
Tag applications are much too important in my book to pass the responsibility on to someone else.
You would be best served to keep your money away from Cabelas and any of their of their "hunting programs".They're real good at screwing you over...
I can verify Carter. I've never used his services, but some of my clients have and they swear by him. I wouldn't go anywhere near USO or Cabela's, though.

SWJ, if you need info on the Arizona draw or the Alaska draw, let me know.
Ive had very good luck with cabelas. Plus the front the state fees
Good luck
Originally Posted by Maverick940
I can verify Carter. I've never used his services, but some of my clients have and they swear by him. I wouldn't go anywhere near USO or Cabela's, though.

SWJ, if you need info on the Arizona draw or the Alaska draw, let me know.


Huntin Fool is going through a few changes right now, I would wait a while till everything gets cleared up. I would look at Aaron Neilson with Global Hunting Resources or Jason Campbell with Worldwide Trophy Adventures for an application service. Both are great guys!

Maverick, I saw where you mentioned Arizona as the first place you would go for a mule deer hunt in another thread, do you guide down there? I agree that AZ is a great place to go but other than the Strip and the Kaibab I have never thought of AZ ahead of NM, CO or WY. Not saying its wrong, just different. There are some fantastic hunts in AZ that are easy to draw, thats for sure
Hey Drum,
When are you and JG gonna adopt me so I can hunt big texas Mulies with you guys?lol

In AZ, for a rifle hunt, I would only consider hunting the strip and Kaibab too for MD. I have hunted other units, but the likihood of busting a bruiser in slim. However there are units down south by the border that hold some monster mule deer, but best time to find em is during the rut and requires archery gear. If I had a gov tag, I would love killing a giant mule deer along the border, but a general rifle tag, I would stay north. 37B has asome monsters, but again I only see em during the rut.
Now I am getting excited about applying for deer again. Dammm u people!!

Kique
I've used Huntin Fool for a while and they do a good job and are certainly personal with it. You can call and discuss at any time.

Aaron Neilson is a great guy and I would trust him as well.

Nosler's Magnum Hunt Club is also a group that I know well and they do a good job with apps too.

Altimus run a great service and will front all of the money for you like Cabelas but he's a little more expensive than some others.

I'd stay away from Cabelas and USO. There are several more that I've missed but the smaller operations seem better and allow you to have a lot of control over what gets done without the headache of keeping up with everything.

Lee
Great mule deer can and do come from every unit in Arizona. Historically, the state of Arizona has produced excellent trophy mule deer, statewide. The geology of Arizona is such that an eye-popping buck can come from just about every unit. With that said, some units are better than others, but a trophy buck can be killed during general rifle seasons if a guy knows what he's doing or goes with someone who knows what they're doing.

On another note, Arizona's unit 12 and unit 13 hold the greatest number of overtly large mule deer and that region of Arizona is probably the best place in North America for an average guy to actually kill an unbelievable buck that would far exceed just about everyone's expectations.

I've hunted and/or photographed mule deer just about everywhere they occur on the North American continent and the units in extreme northern Arizona seem to hold the highest percentage of extraordinarily over-sized bucks.
Double [bleep] USO. I would stay away from both, and use Garth Carter. They are honest and will do you right.

Toby Joe
Garth Carter is a douche-bag. Yeah, keep sending him $100 so he can keep affording landowner tags and private hunts all over the west. He has done more to ruin western hunting than anyone in history.

You can go to a site like Monstermuleys, and look up draw odds for areas where you want to hunt. It is not that hard to do this schit yourself.
I'd shy away from Garth and Huntin Fool until the storm passes at very least. Garth has allegedly retired due to an alleged illegal sheep hunt in Canada and Jason is no longer there from what I've heard and there are a lot of changes going on there.

It will be interesting to see what happens

*Edit*
I have heard this from a number of different people within the industry, some that have nothing to gain if this is true and some that do have something to gain if its true. If you with to follow up with this just call the guys at Huntin Fool to get their side of the story. Time will tell and as always, regardless of what charges Garth may or may not be facing everybody is innocent until proven guilty.

I would still look at Aaron Neilson or Jason Campbell first
One of the few O/F I can heartily recommend for AZ.

http://www.hunterstrailhead.com/index.php?ID=220

http://www.mcclendon-elk-hunts.com/
I have been using USO for the last 8 years. They apply me for several sheep tags and I have had no problems with them.

I see several here have posted objections to using USO but none have said why.

Please enlighten us as to why they are a problem and not well liked out West. I know he had his lawsuit against some of the Western states. Is that the reason?

Have any of you that have a problem with them ever had an actual problem or is it something else.

I am just curious because if there is something going on that I am unaware of I would want to change services.
Glad you asked, and here's the type of people you're dealing with:

Almost 10 years ago now, George Taulman himself went out to my buddy's house in W OK Panhandle. He hired him and his son to gather up land, landowers tags, and guide hunters for SW Kansas. This was back when KS still issued landowner tags that the landowners could sell to whoever they wanted. Henry (dad and my buddy) and "Pedro" (his son), did so just as they were asked to do. It went very well that first year, with Bill Jordan, Jackie Bushman, and several others being clients and guided by Henry and Pedro. There were some big bucks killed. The very next year, Taulman went straight to the landowners himself in KS, made a deal, and cut Henry and Pedro out of everything, including guiding. They got screwed and tatooed by the gutless, cowardly, thieving Taulman. He's a POS.
Originally Posted by Bigamhuntr
I have been using USO for the last 8 years. They apply me for several sheep tags and I have had no problems with them.

I see several here have posted objections to using USO but none have said why.

Please enlighten us as to why they are a problem and not well liked out West. I know he had his lawsuit against some of the Western states. Is that the reason?

Have any of you that have a problem with them ever had an actual problem or is it something else.

I am just curious because if there is something going on that I am unaware of I would want to change services.


I've met George personally and if I hadn't been on a missle range hunting with my best friends daughter I would have had to be pulled off of him.

We get to a spot to glass thats on a ridge thats miles long. As we are getting our stuff ready and starting to walk to the glassing knob this truck pulls in directly behind us and a guy jumps out and starts trying to race up the hill to get to the knob first. It was a BS move that showed a complete lack of class and ethics. There were NUMEROUS areas to glass and we were there before anybody else. Those guys should have moved down the ridge where there were no other hunters, like I said, the ridge was mile long.

Turns out it was George Taulman, one of his guides and 2 clients. We are glassing the Oryx and George comes down and says "Which ones are yall going after?" We told him that they would eventually work their way to us and that we were going to wait and see which Oryx we wanted before making any definitive decision. He said that they were bailing off in front of us and they did.

That son of a bitch came in behind us, set up on top of us then bailed off in front of us and ruined our hunt trying to make impossible stalks on the Oryx. His radio boy then screwed up our hunt when the Oryx did what our guide knew they would do and moved up the draw towards us. He tried to spook them back to George.

Needless to say, I would not piss in his mouth if he were dying of thirst. He's an a-hole. Do yourself a favor and go with an agent/outfitter that has morals and ethics. George Taulman is morally bankrupt
Put me in the camp of those who think USO should have their licenses pulled.

Not only fly over spotting by plane but herding Elk out of the canyon I hiked into opening morning. Plane came by me at bow range. Should have filed charges as I had the registration numbers and saw the same plane at the USO camp later but I thought that they had ruined one day and if I got caught up in filing charges it would ruin the whole hunt.

Haven't used any services other than a private guide to get tags, but I would say do it yourself and save your money while your waiting for a private land hunt. When it takes 14yrs to draw a tag you could have socked away enough for a good guided hunt.
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Great mule deer can and do come from every unit in Arizona. Historically, the state of Arizona has produced excellent trophy mule deer, statewide. The geology of Arizona is such that an eye-popping buck can come from just about every unit. With that said, some units are better than others, but a trophy buck can be killed during general rifle seasons if a guy knows what he's doing or goes with someone who knows what they're doing.

On another note, Arizona's unit 12 and unit 13 hold the greatest number of overtly large mule deer and that region of Arizona is probably the best place in North America for an average guy to actually kill an unbelievable buck that would far exceed just about everyone's expectations.

I've hunted and/or photographed mule deer just about everywhere they occur on the North American continent and the units in extreme northern Arizona seem to hold the highest percentage of extraordinarily over-sized bucks.


Thanks for the "heads up" on northern AZ! LMAO!

Hey, news is news! <GRIN>
Originally Posted by mudhen
Hey, news is news! <GRIN>


True that! I don't know if y'all knew this or not but the Jicarilla also has some giant mule deer grin
Amazing!
I ran into one of the USO big wigs (I forget which one) in Naco at the border. He was taking a chute plane down to Mexico and got hung up by the Mexican official trying to figure out how much to charge on the importation. Got talking to him and apparently he was taking it to a Muley ranch he had where they could use it to find big bucks. Wish we were on the US side, I woulda liked to punch him.
Ethics are not number 1 priority to USO in my opinion. And it is just that, my opinion.

As far as TAGS go, I remember a few years ago, Cabelas thought they were more important that the regular hunter and above the law. They somehow missed th cut off for the AZ draw, and they were still trying to get their clients apps processed. It was all over the net.
Again POS's in my book.

There are some good reasons not to use either!!!

Can't wait to see if I draw an elk tag or not so I can focus on what to apply for during the deer fall draw.
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by mudhen
Hey, news is news! <GRIN>


True that! I don't know if y'all knew this or not but the Jicarilla also has some giant mule deer grin


Every state and province that has a mule deer population has eye-popping bucks. New Mexico is no different than any of the others.
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by mudhen
Hey, news is news! <GRIN>


True that! I don't know if y'all knew this or not but the Jicarilla also has some giant mule deer grin


Every state and province that has a mule deer population has eye-popping bucks. New Mexico is no different than any of the others.


Eye-popping? Lmao! You sound like the cover of a Rocky Mountain Game and Fish magazine
Mainland Mexico Pursuant (huntsonora):

Thank you.

Maverick
Thanks alot azzholes.......I was going to be the only guy smart enough to apply for those AZ tags this year. Now I have to start my research for another sleeper area.
Originally Posted by Enrique
I ran into one of the USO big wigs (I forget which one) in Naco at the border. He was taking a chute plane down to Mexico and got hung up by the Mexican official trying to figure out how much to charge on the importation. Got talking to him and apparently he was taking it to a Muley ranch he had where they could use it to find big bucks.
Ethics are not number 1 priority to USO in my opinion. And it is just that, my opinion.

Some years ago Tallman, the CEO, had his outfitter's license suspended here in New Mexico and paid some hefty fines after he was caught spotting game for his guides and hunters from an aircraft. Probably him that you were visiting with...
Seems funny to me (I may be the only one) that there are folks that are willing to pay someone to not only lead them to the animal, but to make sure that they get their applications in too.
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by mudhen
Hey, news is news! <GRIN>


True that! I don't know if y'all knew this or not but the Jicarilla also has some giant mule deer grin


Every state and province that has a mule deer population has eye-popping bucks. New Mexico is no different than any of the others.


Show me some pics of those Oklahoma eye poppers. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while.
Raider:

I don't know why you'd be waiting any while to see Oklahoma's varied large deer. I mean, it's supposedly not that far of a drive for you and besides, doesn't take long to investigate it by other means.

Maverick
I've hunted it many times, and have yet to see any eye popping mule deer there, as per your assessment. You shouldn't be making statements like that unless you can back it up is my point.
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I've hunted it many times, and have yet to see any eye popping mule deer there, as per your assessment. You shouldn't be making statements like that unless you can back it up is my point.


Happen to have a copy of a B&C publication?
Yep. How many times have you hunted mule deer in OK?
How about how many times has he hunted mule deer, period?
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I've hunted it many times, and have yet to see any eye popping mule deer there, as per your assessment. You shouldn't be making statements like that unless you can back it up is my point.


Happen to have a copy of a B&C publication?


Have seen the Oklahoma state record, or was the state records a number of years ago. He was a dink, and I would have not turned loose a management hunter to kill him.

Toby Joe
Originally Posted by ranger1
Seems funny to me (I may be the only one) that there are folks that are willing to pay someone to not only lead them to the animal, but to make sure that they get their applications in too.


+1

No kidding.
There are some guides that post here that I can see are ethical, hunt hard, and tell the truth.

Originally Posted by Maverick940
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by mudhen
Hey, news is news! <GRIN>


True that! I don't know if y'all knew this or not but the Jicarilla also has some giant mule deer grin


Every state and province that has a mule deer population has eye-popping bucks. New Mexico is no different than any of the others.


For LIMOM (Legend in my own mind) aka Maverick940

Was born and raised in NM and my family owns a large ranch in NM. Yes there are some big deer killed in NM, but I would like to see the units that are consistently killing "eye popping" bucks. There is only one. The Jicarlla.
NM is alot different then the main big mule deer states.
Have you ever even been in NM???
Oh, I forgot, you must have driven through there on your way back from Oklahoma.

Get a [bleep] life, and a clue

Toby Joe
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