SPILL your guts! What is the biggest crock of sheeeet,you've heard via the "net"?....

Roll up your sleeves and gripe about that which bothers you.... Myself,I have difficulty with the nostalgia of yesteryear,applied today. By that,I mean recounting umpteenth versions,of the same old Tale. Loosely translated,it goes like this..."There I was,just me and my trusty '06!". Then our hero,slays beasts all out of proportion to the cartridge's potential,with sub-standard fodder,in an iron sighted rifle at heroic distances! Whewwww! That stuff used to sell,in the '50's(despite it's great elaboration,even then). A source of great entertainment for me,is the recounting of such Tales,as the Gospel. Please don't get me wrong,as my intentions are NOT to demean,a single soul. But people are raised,subjected to such trains of thought. My Father and Grandfather,two PRIME examples. They were victims,of the times. In their era,you bought an '06(sometimes even of dubious manufacture),because that was THE round. We all know the reasons(grin)....A man could buy 110-220gr Factory ammo,most anywhere! A great arguement,with minimal merit. Few,if any,resighted rifles during the ammo shift. Fewer yet,were familiar of the trajectories,displayed by the differing loads. Hell,sight in 2" high at 100yds and slay Sage Rats to Elephants,all you had to do was slip in the "proper" cartridge.(Sound familiar?)... The troubles with that train of thought,are that it leaves one high in expectations,but low on realization. Many of those problems,were a function of projectile quality/uniformity. I believe the saying,"You win some,you loose some" was coined during this period. Translation? Heavier projectiles are better. Why? Reduce speed(due to heavier projectiles) and things perform as intended. Blah,blah,blah....(grin)Then there is the subject of wood stocks(hey some think they are SUPERIOR,to other construction techniques,to this day). Then bedding,optics,bases/rings and propellant technologies. From there,we visit Custom Rifles,rangefinders and high BC projectiles of SUPERB construction/function. My question is...How much of the nostalgia do you buy into,and how much of the "new" can you swallow? Personally, I like the best and for what interests me,most is of the new persuasion. Though the 257Wby was introduced,in 1944(when Roy dreamt it up). It has only in the last 10yrs,come into it's own........ Let's hear your take..........

Stick I don't know if it is buying into nostalgia or not. For me if a cartridge does what I want it to do I am satisfied. To my mind in game shooting what practical difference does a hundred fps make? What practical difference does a quarter inch tighter group make? I sure don't fault anyone who goes in search of the, to their mind, ultimate cartridge for shooting a record book what ever. Without those people there would be no advances in technology whether it is usefull technology or not. Just for me the old tried and true rounds are sufficient. Recognizing of course that some body some time had to invent them to replace the older technology. Where we stand now I don't really see any quantum leaps until we perfect ray guns. [Linked Image]

BCR------------------ A 45 BEATS 4 ACES EVERYTIME

The older I get, the better I was..... [Linked Image]

Actually, Cody seems to fit your criteria for me.. badger.------------------ Keep the traditions alive, take your child hunting.....

This probably aint where you envisioned this thread going,but you are dead on in your example.All the gurus combined will never come up with a rifle-cartridge combo to compete with an old "thutty-thutty" that belonged to a NAVAHO named "SNIFFENS" in AZ in the forties.{ I'll spare you the details} The nice thing about disposable income- if you can read this, you have some- is that it allows us to want and get things for which "wanting" is the only justification.I have a nice MARTIN guitar on which to play the dozen or so chords I know.I drive a 91 dodge pickup with 270k miles {and they show!}I want them both and I got em. Now I want a RUGER NO ONE in 7 ULTRA to get as close as I can to that 30-30 out in AZ in the forties. A MAN'S REACH SHOULD EXCEED HIS GRASP, ELSE WHAT'S A HEAVEN FOR.

I guess I reach my limit when I see some of the answers to the old question, "what rifle/cartridge do I need for _________(name of game animal?"It never fails that someone will come forward and proclaim that you need some outrageous cartridge for plain old game. My favorite is the guy who proclaims that you need a .378 or .460 Weatherby to kill Elk or even African game. I'm sorry, but nobody on this earth NEEDS a .378 or .460 Weatherby for anything except escalating their ego. If you want one, that's fine- but I'll never be convinced that those cartridges are NEEDED for anything, for 2 substantial reasons. The recoil of each is substantial and far beyond the limits of almost all hunters, and I really don't want to hear the old line about training yourself to shoot the bigger guns. BS! (and you guys know I shoot several magnums already!) The second reason, if you can't kill it with more standard cartridges, you probably aren't doing your job of hunting and shooting very well. Hell, does anyone even know a single guide or PH who carries one of these behemoths? I doubt anyone I know could fire one enough to become proficient, much less expert with either one, and this refers to other like chamberings. There was a reason the .416 Rigby, .470 NE, and other cartridges were loaded the way they were!Hey, if you like the punishment of handling a truckload of recoil and can brag about it later (usually while you recover), have at it and have a great time. But I'll never be convinced by this crock of BS that anyone actually NEEDS one of these calibers at any time anywhere. Of course, everyone knows needing something is much different from WANTING something. LOL- Sheister

One of the biggest crocks is listening to some blow hard telling us that only brand____ of rifles,scopes,bullets,blah,blah blah is the proper way to hunt. Does a deer really know the difference between a 270 or a 30-06? I've shot a bunch with both calibers and the only difference was in my mind. I've heard arguements that the 280 is much,much more powerful than a 270. Really now! Get a clue...Littlebit

Two things.1)Groups measured to .01" or finer precision as if it were even possible. We're not shooting the shuttle here folks.2)When ever the talk drifts to antler scoring. It makes as much sense to me to talk of a trophy squirrel or grouse as a trophy buck or elk.

I'm guilty of both. I measure groups to .001" and like the B&C scoring system. Why? Both are respective units of measure,to garner a realistic comparison. Same reason I measure fuel consumption in gallons and finances in dollars. Simply a yardstick,that is very common and easy to grasp. Nothing more........

I didn't mean anything personal Big Stick. But really, the way paper tears, I believe .1" is the least that can be relably measured.

The biggest crock I heard on the Net was that Al Gore won Florida. Guess they were wrong. hehehehehehehehehe

Youper,I didn't take it as personal. I was trying to explain the reasoning,behind the units of measure. I haven't an optical collimator,but can come pretty close,using a good micrometer. I always err on the "big" side,when figuring group size. Often you can roll the underside of the target back into place,and measure the outer smudge mark. From there,it is a simple matter to subtract one bullet diameter,to find the center to center,extreme spread. I don't mean to imply,that I can 100% ascertain the PRECISE measurement,to within .001" every time. But in reality,it isn't too difficult,to crunch the numbers. Funny that you mention this. The 1/8" or fractions there of,drive me nuts! Conflicting opinion,is the spice of life........

Actually, I got a couple.#1. "My factory rifle shoots 1/2" groups all day long." (YAWN)#2. "A .270 is far superior in every aspect to a .30-06." (bigger YAWN)#3. "You have no business shooting game animals over 200 yards with any caliber or cartridge." (fast asleep now).#4. "You are taking a serious chance at wounding elk shooting at them with a .30-06 at over 150 yards." (is it morning yet).#5. "What is the best caliber for BLACK bear?" There are two trains of thought here. One is a .270 and the other is anything thta throws at least a 250 grain bullet. (where is my pillow) #6. My biggest peave is; anything quoted, written or explained in Jack Oconners words regarding the .270 as THE round to have for North America and most of the world. He was paid very well to pitch such nonesense. Had he been given a .257 Roberts or some other round, it would have been his pick as well. I get really tired of PAID gun rag writters opinions of "the" best round and being quoted every time someone's pet caliber is debated. Flinch

Stick,I have seen many crocks....- You are taking your life in your hands if you use a CRF for dangerous game.- Rem extractors are weak- The 700s round receiver doesn't procuce good accurcay in magnum chamberings.- It is unethical to make long shots on game- There is such a thing as a "brush bucking" bullet- The post '64 M-70 is a piece of junk- Excellent accuracy isn't necessary in a hunting rifle--a pie plate group at 100 yds is good enough- Trophy hunting is bad. Meat hunting is okay (Even though the switch from meat hunting to trophy hunting played a huge part in the recovery of our big game herds.)- The animals we hunt are noble creatures, and we must be 100% sure that everything will go perfectly when we take the shot. (If they are so noble, why are we killing them?) And the biggest:- Because I can't do it, no one can. (Pick you topic: shoot heavy recoiling magnums accurately, make shots past XXX yds, correctly operate an action under stress, shoot 1/2 inch groups with a hunting rifle, etc.) Blaine

"We must learn the art of intelligent compromise when dealing with the anti-gun forces, in order to preserve our 2nd Amendment rights." That one's tops on my list.

Pet peeve... "This vs That"! Damn it!!! Both, whatever the "vs" is about, have their fine points, and their bad points, but if someone can't figure it out themselves without a "vs" post, then damn it! They often do the "vs" threads because they like to see an argument, because thats what going to become of it EVERYTIME, without fail, with both sides supporting what they like, and bad-mouthing the other side. In the end, they haven't learned anything, except they can argue mighty fine about nothing. Things are compared because there are differences. And these differences are threated as though they were negative aspects of a choice. Gads! Just choose it for the good things you can come up with, not the bad things someone says about the other thing. Things DON'T need to be compared! Their value is what they're worth to you. ~~~Suluuq

The greatest contributions to the manure pile, IMHO,happen when someone - usually from an imaginary ethical mountaintop - passes judgement on someone's hunting practices without having all the facts. some examples:1.Using feeders for deer or turkeys.[I never hunt around them, fella.I pay ten bucks an acre for this pasture and if I can keep some does moving thru it, one will bring "old eli" thru here.[maybe]2.hunting from an elevated blind.[ My best chance at old ELI,btw, that's a euphanism for the "biggest buck in the pasture" and I cant very well kill a bigger deer than whats here now can I so I reckon that makes him a "trophy" dont it? anyhow my best chance is to catch him coming across a mesquite flat.It may be anytime during the day and I have to see him moving, pick an opening,and hit him.He may cross that flat any where from 50 to 500 yds from my blind.Ive scouted him out.I must turn down all other game.I will probably still have my tag after the seasons over after spending countless hours waiting on him.I have paid my dues.Dont preach to me about ethics.]None of this would happen if we simply remember; walk a mile in my shoes.

Nostalgia isn�t much problem for me anymore, since I think I can see through a lot of it now. I get irked by people who pile up a great breadth of knowledge, then advise others without the depth that comes from experience. It�s a problem on the net, since anyone can say anything, no matter how stupid, and there is a chance someone will take him seriously. I once saw a site where one of these folks got after the Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt. After about 500 rounds, which would barely get the thing broken in, he arrived at conclusions that just do not hold water, but the information was there for all to read. None of the load data he put out was really dangerous, but he gave some advice on home trigger tuning that could get people killed. When I worked in gunshops, I saw this kind of clown all the time, and threw a lot of them out since they ran off legitimate customers. Okie John

How about these guys who walk around hunting with "unloaded guns" and expect their hunting buddies to do the same because their afraid! I have one word of advise, "golf".

Most of the B.S. on the web is about long shooting. Now how can I say that about people I never met before ? Because its the same B.S. I hear in person from hunter's thats why. I think its natural for shooter's to add a bit of range to a long shot they made. Many of us, including me, will never win awards for judgeing range. I Think these kind of exageration's are kind of benign, they dont hurt no-one, just make us giggle a bit. Blaming equipment is another one. Tho it happens it seem's for some guy's it happenes every time they miss a shot in their entire lifetimes. To me exagerating, or benign B.S.ing about my shooting, is the same thing as thinking about dateing an 18yo girl. Tho both are legal they both make me feel even more "pitifully middle aged" just thinking about them. I have learned to be modest and humble when entering a hunt camp. So many guy's show up and dont stop bragging about their fitness, long range shooting ability, hunting skill, and expereince, and equipment. By the time they leave camp a week later they might as well paste an "Im a horse's ass" sign on their forehead. I believe in being humble and self depreciateing upon entering a camp. That way the only place you can go is up, honesty usually pay's dividends. I remember the time I took a lever action rifle apart, put it back together, and had about 9 parts left. When the gunny asked me what happened I told him the truth, that I screwed the rifle up. He told me that in his 30 years he's had so many gun owners do the same thing to their guns, and always they came in with a B.S. story, that he was going to put my rifle back together for free. Now if I can only get the 18 yo cheerleader's to stop pointing and laughing at me......... [Linked Image]

...........10

Biggest crock I heard on the net? Well at least I was not happy with the suggestion of "you should not hunt squirrels with a 22, it is dangerous and you could kill somebody." Yes and you could kill someone with that '06,270,or 300 magnum too while deer hunting. So don't tell me what to use on my game when I hunt, especially if I don't ask.

The biggest crock? When one says you need something bigger than an 06 to shoot anything in the lower 48. Now that is a crock! And it has been said by some idiots believe it or not.------------------ Beware the one-gun man.

Flinch: Enough blasphemy! That's Mr. O'connor to you. Of course he was paid to tout the .270. But don't you agree that he backed up what he wrote? And during his .270 psalms, didn't he write (very well) about many very useful and beneficial subjects (such as the use of slings, long range shooting, etc)? Lastly, although he may not have said it as often, Mr. O'connor praised the '06 as one of the greatest cartridges in the world, stating that he owned as many '06's as .270's.AFP: "If animals are so noble, why are we killing them?" That's classic. Way to nip that misty-eyed anthropomorphism which plagues the bunny-hugging community.A fun thread. Talus

A person that doesn't appreciate the experience and knowledge of the past should not expect too much of the future, the future becomes the past the day after. We reached the climax in what is needed to kill animals or people awhile back. Ray guns or lasers may be more efficent but will not kill any DEADER. JMHO -- no

The biggest crock on the Net is: <A HREF="http://www.arnoldarms.com" TARGET=_blank>www.arnoldarms.com</A> Then look at his "testimonials". What a bunch of bulldust.Next question would be, "What the best bullet for Deer?""What's the best Scope", and it goes on and on.But Arnold's Testimonials wins the cake.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp: The biggest crock on the Net is: <A HREF="http://www.arnoldarms.com" TARGET=_blank>www.arnoldarms.com</A> Then look at his "testimonials". What a bunch of bulldust.Next question would be, "What the best bullet for Deer?""What's the best Scope", and it goes on and on.But Arnold's Testimonials wins the cake. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Terry,What? Your 270 doesn't shoot .169" groups with partitions??? You can't shoot 3.75" groups at 1000yds with your sporter? [Linked Image]

consider the source the person who shot that record group with the 270 is a sporting clays champ.that is about as valid as Bob Vela touting lawn mowing equipment, sure they both do things for the home...

I've read every one of these post and I have come to the conclusion that based on what I've read its a confession, your all full of s---t, or did you leave anything out that were not all guilty of from time to time?????------------------ Ray Atkinson atkinsonhunting.com 208-326-4120

Boy, am I glad I waited to comment until after Ray had his say. The net is full of BS, braggin' and bad advice. It is also full of helpful websites, good info (if you can tell which is good, which is pure BS) and plenty of lively dialogue. If someone blasts "longrange hunting", and you can do "it" routinely...are you bragging if you defend yourself? If you are comfortable with your choice of rifle and cartridge, are you an idiot for stating why you're comfortable with it, when someone else claims it's an inferior combo for your type of hunting? I take most everything with the proverbial grain of salt. Sometimes one has to increase the dosage, but it's still fun to read what others are saying.

My theory is,facts IS facts..And it ain't braggin',if you can do it..............

Boy is this turning into like "those other forumns" where you cant have a "laugh or two" without someone throwing water on it?.Maybe these forumns just arent any fun anymore.......10

Stick, the critique was from a feller what gave somebody bad info on another thread, then claimed it was a posting error. Tsk, tsk.

Flinch, good point on #6 about J.O. We now know from interviews done with close friends of his, that are still with us, Jack really preferred the .338 Win Mag as the best one gun North American rifle to own. ~rossi~

rossi, I love it! LOLOL- Sheister

I knew J.O. was a liar the whole time. He was known to slip up quite often and forget what pet caliber he was supposed to be paid to praise on several occassions. Half the time he couldn't remember who his sponsors were for which hunts. He was always stepping on his tongue and forgetting his lines. I can only imagine what was sensored out. Money talks and B.S. walks. He was/is full of it, right along side Jim Dumbo and Jackie Bushwoman! Flinch

Hey Flinch, if I didn't know better I'd swear you were me, you're allright in my book. 10 point, what you're noticing is a problem that has been bugging me for some time, it seems that there are grown men and weman (some verry intelligent ones at that)who have allowed them selves to be duped into being politicaly correct. I put this notion of being politicaly correct under the same catagory as; "Saturday night special", "assualt rifle", etc... Do you see what I'm getting at? These were words used by the anti's and the socialist party in this country to dupe people into giving up a piece of their fredome. If a person chooses to be politicaly correct, they have volintarily given up their fredome of speech and expression, my Bill of no rights gets bigger every day w/o any help from myself so I say to hell with politicaly correct! If I've managed to offend any one, it's a free country, (so far, We'll see about tomorrow) you'll get over it. P.s. I'm not saying it's what you guys are doing, it's what most of you are talking about. Thought I better clarify that, it's been brought to my attention that I don't elaborate enough. [This message has been edited by WWChamplain (edited March 19, 2001).]

I understood the criticism and where it was directed. I was simply adding to it.My point was,most don't use facts and more can't do half,of what they say. Typical in all arenas........

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Big Stick: I understood the criticism and where it was directed. I was simply adding to it.My point was,most don't use facts and more can't do half,of what they say. Typical in all arenas........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I hear ya Big Stick, most of us find said persons annoying or even comical, what scares me is the guys who are influinced by these clowns.

We got a coonhunting story that goes like this here: 1st hunter; somebody poisened my dog. 2nd hunter; Is that right? 1st hunter; Hell no, but it's a fact!

My post in no way was intended to offer disrespect for old Jack. All of us praobably owe a lot more to him and Elmer Keith than we possibly know for keeping the fires burning. In saying that, however, Flinch still makes a good point about lobbyed gunwriters. To back my post up, the following is a quote from Walt Bodie, an Idaho game warden and biologist and friend to J.O. Quote: "On one occasion Jack said to me that if he could only hunt with one rifle for the rest of his life and had to get rid of all the rest of his guns, he would keep his Al Biesen .338 Winchester Magnum". ~rossi~

Jack O.,never did anything for me. He was led by the hand and catered to and STILL shot dinks..........

Being I am on the subject. Elgin Gates was the real deal. He could judge Trophies and better yet,smacked 'em on a regular basis( he also liked the 257Wby,and that ain't all bad)......

Yes, Elgin Gates, Herb Klien, Basil Bradbury, C.J.MacElroy etc... were all the real deal. However, make no mistake so was Jack O'Connor. Like him or hate him, he was the real deal. Having started my hunting career with a 270, I have found everything O'Connor said about the cartridge to be true, and then some! Lets please try to avoid bashing the dead.By the way, I have read a ton of crap on the net but saying that Jack O'Connor was a 338 fan, and that he was not the real deal tops my goose grease list!

- if you own anything over 30-06 for the lower 48 you are over gunned. - if you can hit a dinner plate at 100 yds. then you are set to hunt. Technically this may be true but I like to shoot their eye out. I dont know if it is your problem or the rifle's- Big slow bullets are always better - small fast bullets are always better- Big fast bullets are always betterthe list goes on...

HeadHunter, I never said the 270 wasn't a pretty good round. Just that it's Ambassador,killed mostly dinks in some of the most game rich Trophy areas available. Further,it was during a time,when those resources were largely untapped. I'm not bashing him,just commenting accurately on his "accomplishments". Because he could entertain many,with his writing skills,doesn't mean he was a great Hunter. I think that is a fair description,on all accounts..........

I think Stick just described himself to a tee in his last post. Including the game rich setting. What you think? -- no

Sonnie, you having a slow day? Do you really find it necessary to **ss in the fire every time you get a little bored? Or are you P.O.'d because Stick isn't in love with your favorite round? I guess I thought we left that stuff behind us at the "other board". -Sheister

NO, I'm just a schmuck and never said different. I've never garnered a nickle for my thoughts,nor will I ever."Greatness" is a subjective term. In my opinion,Jack O. didn't scratch the surface of that moniker. He may be your Hero. Many that were/are fitting of the title,will go largely unknown because they aren't Professional scribes,or associated with any of the Major Manufacturers. He largely excelled,at mediocrity. It was a hell of a stunt,in my opinion and I wouldn't want to discredit that...........

Hi Shiester, -- just got back from seeing mother at hospital. Nah, I wasn't messing with the fire, just took my fire suit off. I just hate to hear a good man bashed when he or his family cannot respond. Old Jack was a good man and had much following, I know, I was there on the front row and considered him a friend, I take up for all my friends, don't you? I still, from years of use, think the 270 Win is a great hunting round and don't think a hunting rifle has to shoot less than an inch at 100yds to do a good job for what we use a hunting rifle for, at hunting ranges. I feel I am entitled to my opinion around this campfire, just as you or anyone else, am I wrong? JMHO -- no

And we wonder why people leave...Littlebit

Littlebit I couldn't of said it better myself!

Ditto!

Well dudes if you think Stick left from my reply to his bashing a deceased fellow hunter, Stick would be a very thin skinned cry baby that would run home every time someone stepped on his toes, which I personally think not. If you want to see the real reason I think he left go up board to,HUNTERS CAMPFIRE, and read the topic, SPRING IS ON THE WAY. I think Stick was the best source of information on this board and more of a man than you err people give him credit. -- no

I would really, really, really like to comment on this, but out of respect for Rick and Big Stick (not to mention my elders), and the fact I don't want this quality board turning in to a toilet I will refrain.

Lets all refrain from speculation (and remain friends) and respect Sticks decision. We've all needed a cooling off period a time or two. Hopefully he will return and if he cares to discuss it then so be it, in the mean time lets move on and contribute constructivly what we can.

Agreed!

NO, put you fire suit back on boy, because here it comes! You sit there and preach to people about how unethical shooting game past 200 yards is, when they are 100 TIMES the shot you think you were on your best day. You tout the .270 as the best round, because you saw Jack O'conner in person and got all excited about it (whoopti dooo). You claim that nobody needs a 1/2" MOA rifle to get the job done. The reason you never needed anything more than a 2 MOA .270 was because your shots in the spot light beam were never more than 150 yards. You didn't have to sneak on anything, nor did you HUNT! It is funny how YOU can get close to wild game and kill them at 50 yards on private land when they are out of season. You my friend, claim to be so ethical and all knowing, yet you have POACHED, yes, POACHED more animals for plain FUN than I will ever HARVEST in my entire life. You are a discrace to hunters and sportsmen. I can't believe you even have friends after all the hot air you throw about. I have held my tongue long enough and I too will stick up for my friends. Big Stick has more gumption, savy and experience than you THINK you had 40 years ago. You really stepped in it this time. He is 10, no 100 times the man you think you were! I don't understand why you feel you need to cut people down every time you get on this board. I for one am sick of it. You have some serious issues brother. Sorry Rick, I had to do it. I will shut up now and let this die. I had to get that off my chest. Flinch

NO, I imagine a feller like yourself wouldn't need more than a 2 MOA .270 rifle to kill critters at under 200 yards. The spotlight beam doesn't reach much farther than that now, does it? Funny how you are this great ethical hunter and stalker. Animals are easy to "stalk" when they are out of season, right? You are the first to jump on people for shooting accurate rifles and shooting past 200 yards, when YOU, my friend are one of the biggest POACHERS to ever come down off the mountain, YES, POACHER AND YOU KNOW IT!!! I guess "hunting" would come easy to a guy that kills everything out of season and then picks on people that actually do know how to hunt and shoot, unlike yourself. You are a disgrace to hunters and sportsmen NO. Flinch

Flinch, -- I'll give you one thing, you sure got a mouth, too bad they didn't give you a brain to go with it. I was a warden before you were born and the way you go off half cocked maybe we both need help. I refered Stick was like what he himself posted, not me. You just stated your opinion, I stated mine, what's the difference? I have fifty years of creditability, responsible hunting behind me, I have nothing to prove. Stick was bashing a deceased friend that could not respond for himself, and it described Stick, and I said so. Why don't you let Stick, the man, respond for himself. He is probably tied up hunting or on his camp job, it's a shame you feel you have to respond for him, makes him look weak and you very immature. -- no[This message has been edited by need one (edited March 22, 2001).]

Gentlemen, I should begin by saying that I wouuld really hate to see this place go the way soo many others have. Which is South! Regarding Big Stick and Need One. I think the world of Big Stick and I've never met the man. He has gone out of his way to help me on too many occasions to remember. Information thats very expensive to learn firsthand. If we ever meet, and I hope we do, I intend to buy him a first class steak dinner as a down payment. Need One, has been around for a long time himself and has also offered what he could on occasion. I often don't agree with him, however, I can respect his take and move on. I suppose many of us have heros that we would defend come hell or high water. Sonnie knew and liked Jack O'connor. I know and like Jeff Cooper. I can't tell you how many toes have been stepped on defending the man. I can kind of understand that. Right or wrong we all have our pet authours, rifles, causes, and chamberings. It can also get pretty hot when we disagree, however, the important thing is for the forum and our commnuity to survive. My take is that Big Stick has bigger fish to fry at the moment and spending hours on the computer when game is available isn't his style. My guess is he'll be back after work and hunting settle down. No reason to get excited and no reason to get nasty amongst ourselves. I like alot of you guys, even if I don't post and say it. Cool off and keep it in perspective. Best, Matt.[This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited March 23, 2001).]

Hi Matt, -- there is no problem on my part, some of these guys jumped the gun thinking I was mad at Stick. Heck, I had just invited him down to use my travel trailer and boat to fish out of, he told me he was spread thin right now and had a camp job along with hunting and fishing seasons. As for my post to him, he described his verson of Jack O and if the name was left off you could not tell the difference between him and Jack. Read his post and see what you think. Stick is a larger man than these guys give him credit for. He darn sure don't need them fighting his battles, especally ones he doesn't have. -- no

Back to the topic. Being a hiker/camper, I have seen several threads for "hiking guns". It amuses me to see people talking about hiking with their 3 pound SRH 44 mags. Try hiking with that much weight on your belt for more than half a day. I'm am a big guy, and tried hiking with one once, only once.

chutestrate, I did the same thing one time while deer hunting. Had a Lawrence holster and carried my Ruger Blackhawk .44 on my hip, tied down cowboy style all of ONE day. Never carried it that way again. Took my leg a week to clear up the tender spot it left from walking on uneven ground. -Sheister

Yep,I've posted a couple different times about not taking my Redhawk hiking anymore. That thing, with it's 7.5" barrel, is just weigh (pun intended [Linked Image]

) too much.I've decided to just carry my rifle while hunting. If it's humans I'm worried about, then maybe I'd carry a 1911.------------------ Brian <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/" TARGET=_blank>The 416 Taylor WebPage!</A>

I too have carried a 44 all day long, while hunting. M629 6" in an Uncle Mike's cordura holster, up on the back of my hip, on the same belt that kept my pants off'n the ground. Never knew it was there until I needed it.

NO, it would appear that the other folks on this thread want to move on and get back to the subject. However, I would agree that Big Stick is more than up to the task of defending himself. I don't know what to think about your exchange. I think, however, that BS would have responded if he felt it was necessary. Cyber conversations have a way of getting out of hand due to misinterpretation. Especially third party interpretation. Insignificant in the end. Best, Matt.

Matt, good post about 7 posts back.I have a 629 Smith Classic Hunter scoped with an 8 3/8" full underlug barrel that isn't too light. I carry it in a bandolier holster. No way would I carry that monster on my hip. Even in the bandolier I feel a little neck strain after a full day. On the other hand I recently purchased one of those Crooked Horn Outfitter's bino support systems. I couldn't believe the difference they made with my heavy Nikons, like they weren't even there, amazing. Everybody should have them. Good luck, Troy.

Ive carried a full size 686 on my hip all day, 5 or 6 days a week, year after year, with no problem's. Even on a foot beat and while walking all day. The trick is to use the proper web gear, maybe even suspender's, to distribute the weight. To many guy's just throw a holster on their regular jeans belt, with ammo pouches, and dont try useing heavy duty web gear. Give it a try, I bet it helps........10

Troy, your 8 and 3/8's M629 with a scope likely weighs well over a pound more than my 6" factory-sighted one does. Weight doesn't bother me as much when hunting. Much as the sound of the gun goin' off doesn't bother you when you shoot at something, as opposed to shooting targets with it. 10 pt., I've had a 4" M686 ever since they came out with them and used to carry it quite a bit in cold weather, when I'm wearing bulkier clothing. In warm weather I tote an old M36 concealed. Web gear is a good idea for distributing weight, but most guys wouldn't consider it for hunting use, maybe they should though.

Everybody else put in there 2 cents worth and here's mine. Big Stick has not returned emails to many here. He was indeed home at least for several days as he did answer phone calls from one or more worried posters. Not wanting to elaborate on his "problems", I do not think they were work based. He was HOME and not posting. He may well leave sometime soon for camp, but that was not why he left this board.I believe he is just another major loss to our board, caused by a small minority of posters here who post only to "stir the pot". They have no life and get bored and peepee on the fire repeatedly to "stir things up a little". I and many here are sick of this crap and now spend much time on other boards and post here less and less. I and others don't need the nonsense that keeps reapearing from a couple posters who I won't name. They understand very little about many of us and why we choose the weapons or methods we choose. Can we all possibly learn to politely disagree without the derogatory crap. How about asking questions here that you care about. You want real answers too, not just trying to crap on the fire to "get a rise" out of someone. Or "smoke out" someone who isn't posting by posting ridiculous posts to try and lure a response. To "get a rise" out of someone. If the board is slow. FINE ! Wait it out. It will get better without crapping on our fire just to generate posts. Pleasently answer posts honestly without trying to dig at people who disagree with you. NO ONE HERE is the expert they think they are. And everyone here can learn much, if they learn to shut up and listen. You learn nothing when your lips are flapping.Try and base your opinions on sometype of fact. Just like the idiots saying the 30-30 is the greatest deer round ever made cause your grandpa shot ten deer every year for 50 years etc... Can you see where this don't mean donkey doodoo to anyone that understands ballistics at all?That is Crapola which has very little to do with reality. And this board has several posters who make no effort to understand modern weapons and the advances made in ballistics, scopes, tents, raingear etc.. It worked for me 30 years ago Blah Blah Blah. I am not looking for 30 year old technology to base my new purchases on. I don't shop at garage sales for 30 year old crap. I want the BEST new gear I can afford. And I appreciate all honest input.As many have noted I do not post very often anymore on this board due to several people who keep this board stunk up from their constant meddling. Like many here I will cease posting on any thread when one of these nitwits starts their B.S. As soon as they post, I'm out. If they have responded to a thread, I won't. It's simple really. And it has kept me out of arguements pretty well.Too bad they don't have something else to do in their life but crap on our campfire for their own entertainment when they are bored. It does not amuse or impress anyone here. The serious shooters and hunters just keep leaving and it won't stop untill these folks clean up their act.Which unfortunatley ain't gonna happen. So as we all keep finding new more friendly sites to post on, please keep me updated. Most of you have my email, and those that don't and care to please add me to your address book now.All my friends are leaving. And I miss you all.I will see you on the other boards I guess.Too many of my past posts ended up attacking one or two individuals here and I voluntarily quit posting to those people in particular online and have held hard to these priciples, If I did not have something POSITIVE to say or add, I just skipped the thread as not worth the trouble it creates in our new home here. Several of you need to do the same. The ongoing stupid arguements such as Win-70 versus Rem 700 or he famous 270 versus 30-06 are old and tired. The arguements used as "fact" are so dumb and non-factual most intelligent posters don't even try to say anything anymore, we just shake our heads in wonder.A bunch of folks need to open their minds to new concepts and ideas. To be receptive to changes in methods and equipement. We all hunt differantly. We use differant techniques and vastly differant types of equipement. They are changing rapidly with advances in modern materials etc... There is a lot to be learned here, IF YOU OPEN YOUR EARS and LISTEN. Talk less. Listen more. Those that think they know it all invariably Don't. And the more you ramble on, the less and less most of us think of you until your oppinions are not worth the time it took you to type them out. We think your just an idiot not worth responding to.Sorry for peepeeing on the fire this morning. I am sick of losing the good folks here from the reoccuring crap from a couple nitwits that have not learned anything in 30 years. Unfortunately equipement has drasticaly changed. Guns, ammo, tents, sleeping bags, rairgear etc... they have all had major advances. Sharing advice about these advances is the key to learning on this board. Unfortunately that requires keeping an open mind. When you quit listening and learning you mind becomes closed and your thoughts much less valuable to any of us. Learning new things keeps your mind fresh and your thoughts interesting. Listen more. Talk less. State your opinion and why. Leave the other B.S. in the pasture where it belongs.Sorry if I have P.O. you folks here. I am disgusted that our new home is starting to have the same problems the old one had. I had high hopes for our new home here. I have worked hard to keep my posts more concise. More "on topic". This is the first derogatory post I have had since Christmas if you discount the ragging onthe old webdoofus at shooters? I wish a couple of you folks would take the same attitude. Post when you have something positive or constuctive to add. Just save the whiny bitching attacks, for all out sake. No one finds them funny or amusing anymore.Cheers FolksTexAlso. To the fellow who said Stick was posting at shooters?? I checked every board and found nothing after the day he left here? Feel free to clue me in.Remmeber the only guy that loves a smart ass is a donkey trainer.------------------ Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.[This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 26, 2001).]

Without getting too involved here I just want Tex to know that his post makes a lot of sense and there is some advice there that should be adhered too. Anyway Tex I just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in your thoughts on this.

Tex, I for one miss your sense of humor and your spirit on these boards. I agree with everything you have to say. Each time we lose a good poster, this boards loses a lot of it's character and just becomes another shadow of the board it COULD become. Personally, I don't post on certain threads anymore for the same reasons you state. I just got tired of hearing the same tired old arguements over and over again. Maybe some fresh blood will help here. I know I see it on other boards all the time- fresh blood and fresh perspectives and questions and the whole board perks up. This also extends further than this board, but I won't go into that right now. Just wanted to say I agree with what you said- just wish I knew what could be done about it. Take care and drop in more often- Sheister PS- e-mail on the way

Look at it this way, this board is what YOU make of it. Ask not what the board can do for you but what you can do for the board. Everything does not have to be a debate, with a right or wrong, mine vs. yours, I'm better than you, etc. Contribute your experiences, thoughts, ideas, values, etc. STOP BITCHING! Ever notice how JJ gets tons of responses to his posts, it's because they are constructive and educational.Get out and do something! Stop sitting on the computer, then tell us what you saw, learned, experienced...it's called life and it's GREAT! But it's what you make of it!(this is directed at no one imparticular but all of us as a group. You get out what you put in)------------------ It's not what you have, but what you do, that counts.www.oregon-outback.com

Gentlemen, I have been busy recently and may be a bit late for this post, but I'll do it anyway.I was serious about my contribution to the O'connor debate -- but not that serious. The "enough blasphemy" part was meant as a joke (Flinch, you probably read it that way). I understand why he's not everyone's favorite. OK by me.No flames, just mild debate, from me.Good shooting, Talus

There are too many good folks on here that need to stay here. There are also a couple that blow a lot of hot air and jump on new posters every time they voice a seperate opinion. The new folks quit posting and go away because of it. We need fresh blood, comments and opinions on here to keep it "real". I seldom get rocked or get involved in useless debates, but when a couple of new, valuable posters tell me that they could no longer handle the lies and arrogance of a couple of posters, I blew a cork, because it reminded me of "the other place". We had the same couple of people follow us here and bring their same B.S., lies and hot air along with them. Sorry to go off for the sake of the GREAT friends I have met here. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. I just can't stand people that always feel the need to **** in the swimming hole. Flinch

Tex, Excellent post. I honestly hope that we hav'nt lost Big Stick. He has been an invaluable source of information, insight, and humor to me. Hope that has'nt happened. Matt.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Matt in Virginia: Tex, Excellent post. I honestly hope that we hav'nt lost Big Stick. He has been an invaluable source of information, insight, and humor to me. Hope that has'nt happened. Matt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tex, I was gonna say just what matt said.You nailed it!

Great post Tex, couldn't agree with you more, this place needs airing out. When a poster describes one of our deceased,(you know dead), remembered by many for his contributions to shooting, hunting, and entertainment and then be likened to that man, in his own words, it to many would be an honor. To some on this board it is not, that's their opinion. -- Some on this board haven't discovered that dead is dead and cannot be made more dead. With time and experience in the field, they will learn much. I hope some of the standard caliber shooters here were not offended by your opinion of their choice of caliber. Of course that is your opinion isn't it. If it doesn't fit your little groups thinking, it's bad, others opinions don't matter. Of course new technology is important to us all and we try to use the best product for the job at hand. Personally, I see most new products before most of the country, at the shows here in the metroplex, just as you do. We all like Stick and he contributes more than anyone else to the tech part of this bosrd. I think Stick is busy like he told me on Hunters Campfire, if he is not and run because of my post, he has darn thin skin with enough since to stay out of the kitchen if he can't stand the heat. WOW, this fire does stink, why don't you quit peeing on it and stirring it up. Tell us a funny, we need a laugh. -- no[This message has been edited by need one (edited March 26, 2001).]

Lots of congrats on the post, but ya know I would be willing to bet it won't help at all. Nice to know so many agreed anyway. Oh well?Tex------------------ Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.

Spike, -- great post, don't think it will be understood by many. Tex has much to offer along the optics and entertainment line but want's to complain more than contribute, seems like that's the only time we hear from him and some of the others. I think Stick is much more of a man than these guys give him credit. I am sorry if I have upset the board with my post to Stick but I stand by my opinion his post about Jack was like his own discription and if he left because of it, I missjudged him. -- no

NO: The differance between you and I is that I listened to the people who post here and attempted to change the way I posted to other people. I have tried to be much less aggressive to the point of learning when its best to just say nothing, rather then needle someone. People shouldn't have to have "thick skin" to enjoy the comraderie available here. It was the will of the people, posting here sonnie. And I have tried to change FOR THE GOOD OF THE BOARD AS A WHOLE, rather then as a place for me to play when I was bored, and the board was dominated by a couple individuals. Nobody wants the fights, or to here the arguements. Why don't you listen to what the people are telling you. Its for the good of the board as a whole sonnie. Ain't got nothing nice to say then just don't post huh? We've driven away enough good men who just were not "thick skinned" enough to put up with us. And Stick should be the breaking point for you. It sounds like it has been for others here. Did you read all the posts Bud? What part are you so slow to pick up on here? I can't type it slower, maybe you should read the posts above again SLOWLY this time sonnie. Your having a comprehension problemn here. Stick shouldn't have needed "thick skin" to post on this board, and put up with you. Thats pretty much what is being suggested here.He was one of the most Knowledgeable, Intelligent people here. One of the main reasons people CAME HERE to read. But more important, he was maybe the most PLEASANT guy here even when disagreeing violently, that I have ever seen. Even JJ (who tries hard to not be nasty) couldn't top Stick in my book on how to politely argue. BTW, They have a great great thread over on H.A. that talks at length, from several people who personally knew and hunted with Jack O'Conner. Quite a eye opener for me anyway. I would consider it a slap in the face to be compared to O'Conner. People that knew him do not speak highly of him in the least. Especially in his older years. Not a pleasant fellow to be around, especially if you disagreed with him. Kind of a jerk really. Very very interesting thread to enlighten me on Elmer Keith and O'Conner in many ways. And they all said Keith was just the nicest country folk kinda guy, even in the later years. Now thats the kinda guy that it would of been fun to sit at the kitchen table and here tell stories. At least to me anyway. Nice people are much more enjoyable to be around, and a jerk is a jerk, just some jerks know more then others.BTW, I think your much much more like your Buddy O'Conner then Stick was any day of the week. Cheers All. Off to another fricking great day it looks like.Tex------------------ Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.[This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 27, 2001).][This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 27, 2001).]

Jack O'conner set himself up as an expert and as such,Stick was well within normal campfire discourse rules- if such exsist- in his comments. I never read a post from Bigstick that wouldn't have fit around a real campfire.Some of you,Stripped of the anonymity of cyberspace,separated only by a few feet, would certainly not be so quick with your tongue as you are free with your posts.Since I have spent many nights at a fire by myself- and was in pretty good company- I won't miss this place much,and I personally won't be missed.Bigstick helped me a lot on my 7 ULTRA project and all his help was given right on this board,for free and for fun.It's a shame I won't be able to let him know if it turns out well. All he was to me was a guy around an imaginary campfire,but there was nothing imaginary about his help.You loudmouths are not welcome at my fire. Just like Stick,I'm "trading-up".And- again,just like with Stick- y'all " traded-down".------------------ Money dont make good reasons

Since you don't seem to get it when it's spelled out for you, I'll be point blank. Need One you have indeed mis-judged a lot of things.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Big Sky: Since you don't seem to get it when it's spelled out for you, I'll be point blank. Need One you have indeed mis-judged a lot of things.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well said...James

Need One, I usually stay on the sidelines during these not-so-fun dialogs, but I'm going to be blunt here. As someone I consider a friend, I'm asking you to please listen with an open mind: You were out of line and are tearing this campfire apart. It's time to admit you were wrong and apologize. Be the "man" that you keep talking about or find somewhere else to ****. Enough said.

NO This is not the first case of your inability to understand english as you wrote it. To attempt to evade the issue with weak semantics is not working.I had attempted to stay out of this, felt the need to "vote." art------------------ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

This is going nowhere fast. Right, wrong, or indifferent. I withdraw my iron from the proverbial fire. Matt. [This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited March 27, 2001).]

OK. folks we have yet another tift between two longtime posters. Get on the horn and pester Stick till he comes back just to tell us to shut UP! In the meantime we gotta get Sonnie to conceed to breaking bread with Stick and get it behind us. Sonnie I dunno what it is that gets you wound up enough to hammer on folks that you are fond of but ya done did it again. Toss in a few smiley's and make sure it's tongue in cheek in the future will ya! Some guy's are thick skinned but refuse to respond so as to not display an uncouth side. Stick can rip Butt with the best of them but dosn't out of respect of the majority. I ain't stickin' up fo no one,but I hate these friggin' school girl ****ing contests and ask that you two crack a beer and get it behind you like two grown men. This place will be the better for it. I would miss either one of you two if ya left. E4E

AAAAA-MEN Brother Pat!Whenever you boys are all done kickin' up dust and are ready to have me close this thread, y'all let me know.Rick

E4E - Wasn't Stick leaving for a camp job?

Rick: Ain't my thread to close any more then open. For all the good it will do you might as well close it. We are stuck with a BDP here. There is no way to win with a BDP. Most people in IS departments around the world are plagued by BDO's. They cause far more problems then all the computer virus's put together !!! Here they are BDP's.Pumpgun: I have but one question for you. You said sonnie is a pain at times? AT TIMES ?? You mean like when he types?And so instead of him improving or changing his posts, you suggest we just live with it or pass them by huh? Hey he's a jerk but so what huh? I think it is obvious what the majority think here. We lost Stick. We know why. We have one obnoxious person who has driven off some very good posters here. Stick is not in camp. He is posting on other boards. I know. I have posted and emailed with him.Now the problem is what have we learned here? The only saving grace would be if someone had learned soemthing from all these posts. Maybe a light bulb went off over their head??? They were wrong. Wrong about a lot of things. And its time for changes for the good of the board as a whole. Unfortunatley if the light went off over their head, the battery was probably dead I'm afraid. We learned that most people think sonnie was out of line. Again. We do not enjoy the arguements and deliberate agitating that he finds so amusing? I am sorry folks. Ain't pretty but.... If we just traded Big Stick for Sonnie on this board ...... We got Scr*wed again. Big Time.And I am sick and tired of it.Bummer Man. Bad deal for everyone.Good Night All, and I use the term loosely.tex Lets see how many regulars here think I am right or wrong? Did we get scr*wed? Are we better without Big Stick?If I'm way out of line then lay it on me folks. But I want an end to this crap now. One way or the other.You got something to add? Nows the time folks. [This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 27, 2001).][This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 27, 2001).]

Rick,As far as I'm concerned, you can put the lock on this thread. Seems like we're doing nothing, but tearing ourselves down.Sonnie won't ever change, and while I don't support his actions, I respect his age. He's just plain old, and set in his ways. We'll all end up that way some day, if we live long enough. :-)Big Stick will survive, heck, he may even return some day, when it gets too boring up here. Shame to see him leave for now though.------------------ Brian <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/" TARGET=_blank>The 416 Taylor WebPage!</A>

I have been gone two weeks and come home to a sh*tstorm. I can't believe that this is happening again amongst people who should consider each other friends. Or at least have a modicum of respect for fellow shooters and hunters. I have posted back and forth with a number of you going on five years or so. A disagreement or difference of opinion should never, I repeat NEVER, become a personal attack like I just witnessed. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor in person. I have learned to temper it on the web because it doesn't translate well when one can't see the smile or wink. Sonnie, you have insulted a man on a public forum in a manner that was totally uncalled for. Maybe you were trying to be funny or stir the pot. Whatever the motive, there is only one way to fix it. I believe you should make a public apology to Stick. You were out of line Sir. Stop this madness NOW! The board awaits you...

Well folks, it seems as if ole,"no". has teed off a lot of folks with such a short post. First and foremost everyone understand I consider Stick a friend, before everyone started jumping up and down, check the post on Hunters Campfire, Spring Is On The Way, I had just offered to let Stick come down here and stay in my travel trailer and use my boat to fish till he dropped. Does that sound like we had hard feelings? If stick did leave because I said he just described himself, you can have your opinion and I will have mine. I apologize to Stick and the board for speaking my opinion and caution everyone to be very cautious of your opinions on this board. I fought for my right to speak my opinion!!! Stick was speaking his, just as each of you have spoke yours on this topic. Tex seams to know all about this situation, I think we should let him tell the story his way. Very few folks can truthfully say,"my word is my bond", but my Texaco, Shell, Chevron, Conoco, cards have from 30 to 45 years a customer on them, my credit cards are non secured to over twenty thousand, that is creditability and a lifetime of trust. I have it fixed with a higher power where I don't have to lie, steal, or cheat to get by. I don't try to impress the young shooters or readers that you need a custom rifle, magnum caliber, or load their own to fit in as a hunter or feel inferior. Their Savage, Winchester, Mossberg, H&R, will kill game with the best of them with off the shelf ammo, if they do their part. If you don't suscribe to this group, you are in trouble. A man that won't stand up for his rights or opinions will follow the crowd. I'm sorry this board is of this stature, I am not! I will continue to speak what I feel, you are welcome to scan by any and all of my posts, I call a spade a spade as I see it and you do to. Stick is still my friend until HE says his part. Just what are you going to say if he posts he didn't take offence to the post, just had other things going? -- no This is my last post on this topic, feel free to flame away with no response! I invite each and every one of you to read the TOPIC and the first sentence of the first post. Stick made the comments about another man, deceased, I said his comments described himself. They do, like it or not![This message has been edited by need one (edited March 27, 2001).]

I dont claim to know everything about whats goin on here, but I do know one thing. If stick wanted NO to be kicked while he was down, he would have done it himself. I dont see the point in having 20 posts on how mean, cranky, stupid, and obnoxious NO is because nothing is going to change. I think that most people believe that NO was out of line when he took Stick's comments personally and responded to them like he did, but who knows what relation NO had with O'connor. Personally, I dont like what he STOOD FOR, but I dont claim to know the actual man. Stick was obviously a very intelligent and educated man, and if he thought NO needed to be driven into the ground, he would've done it. Maybe some of us dont know the whole story, and are saddened by the loss of Stick and are looking for someone else to blame it on.Like I said, I dont claim to know everything anout everything, but I do know yelling at NO isnt solving anything. Chris

Gentlemen, let's move on.

Caz: You know why 20 people have to try to pound the message in? Because he is so stupid he can't grasp the concept any other way. This isn't one stupid sonnie post like he STILL seems to think. It is a culmination of hundreds, where we are sick and tired of the same ongoing badgering that he does. No one wants sonnie to leave this board. We went him to TRY to be more pleasant on the board. He has VERY differant ideas from many here. Which if politely shared would not cause a problem. Sonnie manufactures problems and arguements here when the board seems slow to him. He generates ridiculaous posts trying "get a rise" out someone. To "smoke out someone". Remeinds ya of girls in junior high school.The board wants this crap to end. Stick is just THE LAST guy to leave. Not the only one. We want this borad to be a place that you don't HAVE to have "thick skin" to put up with his needling. Its not loved liked or appreciated. He has many fine qualities and much to share. Unfortunatley he is now getting labeled more like Cody. Just a troublemaker that you ignore at all costs. Don't answer his threads or rerspond because you can't arhue with idiots like Cody. Is that how you want to be thought of around this campfire sonnie? Not as the wise old sage but the nitwit that posts just to see his words in print?? Your getting real close for most us here.What a shame it had to come to this. It didn't have to. I have tried for the last year to get sonnie to realize this. I have sent him emails with direct quotes cut from his posts trying to show him how ridiculous his little character he has carved out here has become.The "no one should own a custom rifle except for professionals and target shooters" was a classic.He says so much crap just to get people to post he can't remember all the manure he has even spread to keep his stories straight. Lets do as I suggested for awhile and just see how it goes OK??No Bull**** posts just cause the board or somebody isn't posting? Most of us look at multiple boards and its no problem for us??How about just saving the majority of cranky snotty posts also. Thats a great start alos. Gee so you will have a little less to say BUT WHAT YOU DO HAVE WILL BE PLEASANT AND ACTUALLY ADD SOMETHING to our board. Talk less. Listen more. The advice would work for more then sonnie.Good grief. The most embarrasing thing to him shouldn't of been the 20 people all saying he was out of line, and growing more pi**ed that he won't admit it. The most embarrasing thing if I was sonnie was the two SUPPORTERS last night. Pumpgun and BW. My gosh, the first just explains it away as sonnie is a pain and we should know it and avoid him. Well thats one way to deal with the problem? Lets see... 500 people all adjust around one jerk, as opposed to the jerk cleaning up his act a little out of RESPECT for everyone else's wishs here? Well it was an ide of sorts. The other suggested he was not in anyway agreeing with him but repected his age?? Oh.... So he is old cranky and we should ignore it because he's OLD. I love old people folks. This was not a attack on old people. It was an attack on someone who was deliberatly peepeeing on this campfire and we grew tired of it.RICK !! Closer the fricking thread. It never penetrated his thick skull before and it won't now. It was obvious to all that read these posts BUT SONNIE, that most here consider him a LONG TERM problem here, and wish he would temper back his agitating posts as they are not welcome here.No one did this to p*ss anyone off. We wanted our board cleaned up. We have tried without having to cram it down his throat here for a year. He is just to dumb to pick up a subtle hint anymore folks. I am sorry and appologize to others here, but certainly not to sonnie. He brought this on himself by continuely ignoring the truth.Truth is ugly in this case and I am sorry.TexCLOSE THE FRICKING THREAD when you get up Rick[This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 28, 2001).][This message has been edited by texas_hunter (edited March 28, 2001).]

Dadgumit! Sonnie,you are who ya are,and no one want's to change that.It's just that a good old fashioned punch to the shoulder dosn't come off so well in print unless it has those stupid smiley faces or "Grin!" inside of the thingies ( ),so that folks know you aren't serious. Stick respects the hell outta you,as do a big bunch of us.It would seem that Stick had a choice of taking it on the chin un- answered like a girlie man,or blasting someone he respects in a public forum. Valor dictates that when in question ya don't disrespect those you do respect,you move on and avoid a dishonor for both. Nobody is questioning your integrity,anybody that does is a fool. Go get the guy,break bread,get sloppy drunk together,and tell lies about old hunting dogs and in the future be a bit more clear about busting a guy's chops for fun. Both of you two add flavor to this board and it would be a drasticly different place without both of ya here. I get 20 Min. a day tops to stop in and eyeball the goings on that I miss,and honestly I want to see both angles from you guys each time.Somewhere in the middle is where 90% of folks who hunt dwell. Ying and Yang....get it? Tex has his tail feathers in a knot over this cuz he is frustrated and needs to find a target. Lets get this Goatf$$$k straightened out,and back to yakking about whacking critters and camp cooking instead of looking like an episode of friggin Oprah. You have his E-mail.Bounce him one. I,and others no doubt,will harrass him best we can.It's between you two stubborn polar opposites to find middle ground. We gotta have the both of ya,or this is a wash.Hang in there,it will work out,if it matters,in the end. E4E

Amen, Brother Pat!Rick

I was directed to this post by someone I consider a good friend. I chose not to participate for the last two days. After reading this I thought for a moment about it and decided I would comment just a short note on this. I have a nightmare of a shadow called cody, latigo, dancer, Mike Boyd, etc. etc. He travels the net searching out my posts to give me crap everywhere I go. He has been banned off of most quality hunting forums. The thing is, I never ran away becuase he was annoying me. I just stopped dealing with him, and ignored all his comments and posts. The same thing can be said for the lunatic that was going by "bcat" this guy is handicapped in some way to make communtication impossible. I ignore him as well. I'm still here and get along with most people quite well. These guys are gone for the most part and well known as difficult trouble makers on most sites now. What I'm getting at here is that if you have quality, friendly, accurate, posts that are helpful and respected you will always outlast the rude, disgusting, uninformed, wannabees of the internet. They will eventually go away and find a group of people they can annoy or argue with that like it. Ignore what you don't like and move away from those you don't deal with very well. But don't run away and leave your friends behind. How does that help you, the group, the forum, or provide a single positive function? Once you have an established reputation with lots of respect why in the world would you give that up because one, two, or even a dozen people who may not like you, agree with you, or care about you post a few comments which clearly show their ignorance of a subject, not yours.I'm not sticking up for Sonnie, he and I have gone round and round over his silly notion of what is right and what is wrong. I just ignore his narrow minded comments on those subjects now. I'm not sticking up for BS either. If he wants to take his ball and go home because one of the other kids on the playground picked on him it's his choice.I will miss BS, he was Knowledgable, Articulate, polite, experienced, Technical, and fun to have here. He was one of the people I could relate to here better then anyone I have ever known here. Probably because the majority of our experience comes from the same area and habitat. He's a big boy, a tough guy to hunt and work in the place he lives and recreates. He can make his own decisions. I'll miss his expertise and banter should he choose to stay away, but it's his choice. jj------------------ The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.

Rick: Can I vote to close the thread more then once and have it count? (grin) Or did my first request to terminate this rascal not count since I didn't start the thread? Because if the guy that started it has to close it, we got a problem here, seeing as how he is gone and posting on huntamerica now?? And it's another fine day here in paradise.Tex------------------ Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.

Rick,Kill the thread.It's lived up to its title, "The biggest crock of sheeeet" on the net.2D

Sonnie - I think your good people and so do a lot of other people on the board. I also think your a lot like me, we open our mouth to say something funny and it just doesn't come out the way we meant it. I think E4E said everything that needs saying in his last post. I do think some of the poster got little carried away when they criticized you, but then like us they are not perfect either. I would like to add that I would miss Stick very much if he leaves, He contributes a great deal to this forum.

Rick, enough with the bloodletting. Let's close this sucker. This defintely is not what I had in mind when I posted to sonnie in haste, and it is getting totally out of hand. Let's move on to more worthwhile threads while we still have the people to do it.- Bob

No Mas No Mas------------------ A 45 BEATS 4 ACES EVERYTIME

I understand your frustratiion at the seeming futility and the loss of a friend. Everything that needs to be said has been. I dont think that youll find a bigger bunch of mature adults than most of the guys who post here. Myself not included. E4E, texas hunter you guys count for two each. JJ, if I had the money for a guided hunt... youd be the man. Its time to quit kicking the horse that wont listen. Not the dead horse mind you, just the one that wont break.

I know Rick is busy now and he will jerk the rug out of this sucker for all our sake when he gets a second. This should be more then enough votes to table the discussion for further comments, considering the lack of dissenters.Tex------------------ Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.

Well, I'm never too busy to keep tabs on what's going on.OK, so the motion has been made and seconded to close the thread. I agree it's time, but it's your all's opinion that counts.So, motion made. Any dissenting opinions?Going once .....Rick Bin

I was married ...........once. One thing I took away from the experience is a dislike of arguing. It is pointless. No one's mind is changed. Those who are not involved but happen to be present, feel a need to step in(it) and take a stab at calming the "troubled waters". Usually the result is not what they had hoped it would be. As long as we are free to express ourselves, we will find ways to offend our fellow poster. I know of no answer for it. Somehow we have to drag ourselves to the point where we can see that the [Linked Image]

Winchester (pre 64) M70 in .270 Win. is the finest hunting arm ever devised by human hands. [Linked Image]

Lighten up boys.........------------------ Rick

OK folks. It's three hours later.Motion to close thread seconded and still unopposed.Dissenting opinions anyone??Going twice.........Rick

.......just dropped in from another site I am a long time regular at .......seems like much of the same here........ DS

Gone.Rick Bin