I'm new to hunting and I've been reading around a bit. Right now I'm studying rifle cartridges/ballistics, but I take breaks by "window-shopping" for hunting gear. Camouflage appeals to me, especially the Kryptek and the Sitka line of camo.

But I pause when I see the prices involved, and wonder is it really needed?

I peruse vintage hunting photos and see that many hunters were plenty effective wearing plad shirts and earth-toned slacks. Case in point:


A more current example would be Laramy "Sasquatch" Miller who wanders around hunting Elk with a recurve bow in buckskins.

So to wrap this up: does camouflage enhance the effectiveness of bagging an animal? Or was it just some stroke of marketing genius that duped us into believing we needed camo for a hunt?

Carhartt camo here..

Animals are color blind, they notice movement the most.. but few people can hold perfectly still unless taught to do so in the military, and how to camo themselves...

Camo clothers and rifles are sort of useless, no matter how cool they can look...

during WW2, all pilots who flew observation planes or had observers to do that job, were all color blind.. they were chosen for that job, because what was hidden to folks with normal color vision, was not optically hidden for folks who were color blind....

so to keep yourself hidden from game, you need to be able to hide yourself, behind something or within something where you can see out well, and the animals can't see in very well...
doesn't matter if you dress like Elmer Fudd or John Rambo...

mask your smell, your movements and your outline...

like guys who are riding horses during elk hunting, when they see elk, they dismount and walk on the off side of the horse away from the elk... the elk can see the horse has 6 legs instead of the usual 4... but at the time they don't notice because as I once read wisely said.. elk don't know nor can they count, if a horse had 6 legs or only 4...

I wore camo when I was bow hunting a lot and I remember one occasion that it made all the difference!
Although my camo, being reserved for hunting only, didn't smell like gas or BBQ or aftershave either.
It also gets washed in soap with no UV brighteners.
Does that make any difference? Who knows.

If camo clothes helps get your mind in "hunt" mode, as in, go slow, watch the wind and be invisible. Sure it helps.

Since I'm not working into bow-hunting distance these day I just wear good fabric in earth tones washed with no UV brighteners soap (left over).

I forget the famous bowhunters name, but he killed many head of game while wearing a green plaid shirt and bluejeans.

I agree, I use it but it is overrated.

Fred Bear

green plaid is actually a pretty good "camo" pattern...it breaks up the human outline just like any good camo and better than alot of popular ones currently on the market....

where camo helps is trying to mask movement at close range.....makes sense for bowhunters, absolutely needed? nope but it can actually help....

and patterns like ASAT and the Predator patterns work alot better than alot of the populat over complex nature picture ones cause tose often turn into a solid blob and you might aswell be wearing "Carhart camo".....you need the bigger shapes in contrasting colors to actually break up your outline....

i have camo stuff though i hunt rifle/blaze orange season almost exclusively cause i usually buy it cheap in the off season.....alot of times cheaper than something similar in a solid color.....aint wearing it cause i think i need it.....also helps hide blood stains if yah gotta make an unexpected run to town....

I archery hunt in very suburban to even urban situations on a regular basis. The main reason that I wear very good camo and take extra to hide my outline is so PEOPLE can not see me. Where I hunt it is either public property used for recreation or private property that still has a customer base that may not be in tune with hunting.

So the camouflage is mainly so a jogger, hiker, kids, or other type pedestrians do not even notice that I am there. If they can't see me then they can't bother me, wave to me, talk to me, or otherwise disrupt my hunt.

I think that camo that is carefully matched to the environment in which it is used and is as one poster above points out, kept clean and free of invasive odours, CAN help in one's overall hunting success. I have some and use it, but, since I am only a simple rifle-"meat" hunter, I do not consider it crucial to my success.

Actually, the closest stalk-shot I have ever made was in November, 2006, when, I crept to within less than 10 yards of a Blacktail spike on Vancouver Island and shot him at the base of his skull with my custom Husqy HVA 7x57. It was late afternoon, raining, the entire environment was darkish to medium misty green and my footfalls were silent due to the heavy moss cover on the old "skid trail" I was hunting along.

I was wearing a dark-medium green sweater, cap, Filson's whipcords and brown gloves and I always have a camo neckerchief to hide my handsome visage....I have shot about 20 of these deer so dressed and it seems to work just fine in the typical BC "rainforest".

I do have and like both Cabela's "Outfitter" Micro-Tex clothes and also old Columbia "Trebark" fleece that really blends into the alpine rocks. So, I stick with these and am not going to spend megabux on the latest "digital" or "Opti" ow whatever.....

All of the deer family are colorblind. Any cloth that doesn't shine and breaks up the pattern a bit will do just as well as an expensive camo. What camo works best for is earning a few companies a pot load of money at hunters' expense.

Most camo is made to fool the hunter not the game.
That said I wear it usually because the style jacket or what ever comes that way. As has been said it really isn't necessary as long as you break up your outline be still and mind the wind.
Deer, while color blind, will notice solid color, reflective surfaces quicker than broken pattern dull objects.

I often but not always like to hide from people too.

Remember also that like many things, there is a large mental aspect to this pursuit. If you "think" it helps you, then it does...

Ghillie Suit can't hurt.

I have a few items of hunting clothes that are camo, but I don't consider it essential for deer hunting. For pigeons, magpies crow and probably your Turkey's its much more important.

Personally, I like large bold patterns with lots of contrast such as ASAT, but that is not easily available over here..As a second choice, I quite like MutiCam and given that a variation of this is now the offical cammo pattern for the British Armed Forces, it is much more common..

All the birds that I know of see color so that any bird which is pass shot or shot over decoys would need a camo predator of some sort and that includes face covering. Otherwise just break up the outline including face, reduce the "shine" (bright contrast), and stay down/side wind and go for it.

I wonder why a lot of the big cats have spots? Lots of the animal world has natural camo. Must just be a fad.

I hunt deer in solid fluorescent orange. I shoot deer from 25 feet on out. Sometimes with the close deer I need to wave/move a little so the stop to try to figure out what I am which makes head shots much easier. I've had deer so close I could touch them wearing the orange. I don't thing it's color or pattern that matters.

I use it to hide from people, works for birds. None of my camo matches, I use whatever is best functionally for the current weather.

Kent

Me too...

I occasionally wear a camo top but only if it is a colder day.

doesnt take much to break up you outline....you can do it with "carhart camo" just wear different shades.....ive sat less than 100 feet away from deer against a bare gumbo hillside wearing jeans, a plain long sleaved shirt and a blaze vest though the deer looked for me after i shot one of their buddies they had no clue where i was until i stood up and every one of them looked right at me....the different light and dark shades between even solid colored clothing breaks up your outline pretty well....

Breaking up your silhouette is a good thing and especially in bow hunting where you need to go undetected at much closer ranges. I would buy your hunting clothes based on performance first and not camo pattern.

Hunting the wind is far more important than camo.

Like fishing tackle is made to catch fishermen, the camo must be made to catch hunters.
It does tell the world you are a hunter, and helps start some friendly chats.

All good stuff above! I'd like to add something that I've done to this chat..surely you need to make up your own mind.

Years ago before camo was cool, nobody wore camo, in the Maine woods that I hunted. Usually all wool cause our season was in November and could be cold. Dark green wool pants, normally a plaid green or red jacket with a blaze orange hat with a blaze orange vest. Killed a lot of deer in those days. What I notice with my hunting crew was that the guys that didn't get a deer every year were dress with blaze orange coats and wool pants. None of us were sitters. We all still hunted. I think the guys with the Blaze Orange coats were seen by the deer because of the movement of there arms and would move left or right into the line of another in our party.

I then started hunting in our October bow season and bought some camo. Back then you had a hard time finding camo that was quiet as wool was. I've worn it off and on since then and frankly do not see the need while hunting big game with bow or rifle.

After going through a school provided by the USMC I learned about camouflage and concealment. A ghillie suite with natural foliage tied in it, is in my mind the very best way to hide you and your movements. Your movements need to be ultra slow. This system works awesome with BG animals and birds which I've gotten so close to bedded animals I could reach out and touch them. Which is more fun than killing them. Cause when I get that close I usually don't and just count coup.

If you choose not to wear camo I'm with you. Earth tones & quiet clothing is all you need...just wear the colors of your surroundings...dark for dark surroundings and light for lighter surroundings. I am a strong and firm believer that your face and hands need to be covered. Either with gloves, face mask or paint. These two items are over looked by some and move the most. Which is when animals are most likely to spot those movements.

Smell, well it only makes sense to be as odorless as possible when dealing with animals that can smell well. Smelling like your surroundings is the best. Pick the local foliage and rub it all over yourself. It will help mask your human stink.

Many moons ago an Oldtimer once told me big game animals have three senses, sight, smell, and hearing. If an animal only sees you he normally won't bolt. If he sees you move he will be alerted and cautious. But if he sees and smells you or smells and hears you or any combination of two sense he'll be gone in a flash. I use that old wisdom to this day.

Long before camo was on the market,the Boy Scout book talked about breaking up the man silhouette.
I'll second the notion of smell. I have seen deer watch me on a lake with the outboard running, then bolt when they caught a scent.

Absolutely overrated, focus on your scent first, second and third. Just about any camo patter will work, just like plaid because it serves to break up your outline and that is just about all you need in that regard.

But, far to many guys worry about pattern, or how noisy it is and forget about the nose.

Remember this when hunting ungulates. You can fool their eyes, you can fool their ears, but you can't fool their nose.

As other have said, it depends on the game being hunted. Turkey, ducks, etc have different eyesight from deer, elk, moose... I use full camo when Turkey hunting. I do believe it makes a bigger difference there than big game hunting. I don't duck hunt, but I would use full camo there too if I were to start.

In the past I never saw a whole lot of value with camo for big game hunting around here as the state required a large amount of solid blaze orange. Why wear camo on your lower half (which is often shrowded by brush anyway) when you are required to have a solid blob of color on top?

A couple of years ago Utah approved "blaze camo" which would help to break up your outline on a big game hunt. I would happy replace my regular camo vest with a blaze camo vest if anybody around here carried any blaze camo... I plan to start wearing more camo as I see no harm in attempting to break up your outline, even if it's not 100% necessary in all situations.

I also agree that the majority of modern camo for big game hunting is designed to fool the hunter into opening their wallet, and not necessarily properly designed to fool big game. I think modern camo patters are far too busy, with little or no "negative / white space". You end up looking like a big grey blob from a distance. I like the ideas behind ASAT and Predator Camo, but they are a bit harder to find than the more popular brand names.

I recently discovered "Vertigo Camo" that has a basic pattern with lots of negative space on it and comes in "tan" and "white". I personally feel like it breaks up my outline better than the Realtree or Mossy Oak patterns. I plan to try them out this fall.

Wow, good stuff here! Keep it coming please.

I have a theory that the use of hunter camouflage came from military camouflage.

I think once marketers saw the use of camouflage in the military (and IMO, in general, it's just a uniform to differentiate side A from side B) they applied clothing used for humans-"hunting"-humans and applied it to humans-hunting-animals.

Vets hunting in their old cammis may have had something to do with popularizing camouflage as well.

Just IMO.

Most of it came from the increase in the bow hunting community size with a spike from the post-Rambo II movie release. The Rambo II movie was the "Hunger Games" of my youth. Archery really rocketed after the movie was released.

When we started bowhunting, the assumption was that we "needed" camo to sneak up on game. What we had at the time, was old fatigues, surplus uniforms and a marketing idea was born. I hunted for several years in a set of USMC lightweight cammys, with canvas soldier fanny bag.

Reality, break-ing up the outline, masking the face, and sitting still were probably as good then as they are now. But, we "were told" by Outdoor Life, Sports Afield and such that we needed camo to get the job done. So, an industry met the demand for something other than BDUs.

Sitka Gear and the like are now marketing to the new 20-something crowd with the idea of going lean and light, with perfomance based equipment, over the Wal-Mart brand. Their hunter model is a lean runner with 5% or less body fat, and the idea that you have to get wayback in there to hunt.

Does the Opti-fade pattern work? Has for me, but who knows what else would have worked?

Sitka Gear is made mostly overseas, not a poke, but the prices don't reflect that. You get some features that the baseline gear doesn't have in pockets, seams, and zippers...but not sure it meets the price difference. Rocky has good gear, usually for about half of the Sitka Price.

Im going to make a Elk hunting video wearing a Santa Clause suit. Sure hope my beard doesn't get hung up in the string when the bulls at 10 yds.

While wearing bluejeans and a bright blue down ski parka, I have had mule deer, elk, and bighorn sheep so close that I could not focus on them with my 200 mm camera lens. Inside of 8 feet. Hunt into the wind, and don't move when the quarry are looking in your direction.

I have not caught what our man does for a living. If he would get any use of the rougher type clothes, on the job, or other.
If it trips his trigger to wear camo, he would not the first kid on the block to wear it.

IME, movement, scent, and dawn/dusk situations involving UV light are ahead of breaking up outline, which is not to be discounted. They all work together. The particular pattern is likely not too important, as long as it is big and bold.

Birds see color, and perhaps patterns as well as we do, so if hunting turkeys or waterfowl, be aware. I'm not qualified to speak on the latter however, having done no turkey hunting and very little waterfowling.

At range, "fine" camo becomes solid, so go for big, high contrast patterns which works just as well at close range as at long range. If possible, get a bush, etc. between you and the animal, or just behind you. Camo won't help you a damned bit if you are skylined/backlighted against the sky, lake, etc.

I have camo as dedicated hunting gear, both for fabric, and as UV killed, scent killed gear. Camo pattern comes third, tho I'm not particular as long as it is large pattern. Mixed top/bottom patterns may even be better.

Camo for me is mostly a "color-coded" way to keep it separated from everyday gear, which is NOT UV killed and is washed in brightener/scented detergents. Use the hunter detergents, after UV killing the new fabric. Then never wash it in common detergents again.

I've probably killed as much game in everyday clothes, tho... It's a kinda mental hunting uniform thing, too.

I hang my cammies outside before the hunt as much as possible to remove house odors, etc., even after the UV/scent killer thing. Or store them in sealed plastic bags with sprigs of vegetation natural to your area.

PS. I have to add, one of the funniest things I've ever seen was this dude wearing full camo, crossbow-hunting hogs from a helicopter.... That comes right next to Boob and Boobs (Lee an Tiffany, among others) sqirting a couple shots of scent killer on their boots and shoulders on leaving the truck while still-hunting elk...

This stuff needs to thouroghly cover your clothes, then be air-dried to be really effective

I know way more about moose bellies than is really necessary....

Camo clad western hunters who sky line themselves,and tromp around without giving any thought to their approach to an area stick out like sore thumbs;and look like camo clad hunters sticking out like sore thumbs....even to human eyes.

And the mule deer bucks they are after are long gone a half mile or more before the hunters get into any kind of range.

I've shot mule deer in jeans and denim jackets in warmish weather....back east here we wear wool and most is plaid but not all of it.I wear Filson Cruiser in solid green or red plaid a lot....Even at close distances in the woods a careful still hunter will stop next to something that breaks up his outline.

As others have pointed out, use wind,ground cover,terrain,and sun to mask approaches and don't worry if you don't have the latest Mossy Oak or Real Tree patterns....they are mostly fashion statements.

Shaq,

Please post if you are successful. That would be priceless.

Actually, that has the makings of a great contest, and would serve to prove a great point about the necessity of camo as well.

And don't forget sound. Most animals have incredible hearing- those ears on the various deer species aren't there as a fashion statement. Just consider that any sound you make will likely be heard be any animal within a quarter mile or more.

If it is subtle or indeterminate, they may come to investigate.

So if noise is inevitable (and at least some is) make it sound like maybe another animal, and not human-pattern.

Velcro is not good.

Nor metallic sounds, or plastic rain-coat on brush. Folding or shaking a cheap poly tarp can bring a bull moose in, and has.

On the other hand, it took Fish and Wildlife Service 12 years to locate my back in tarp camp, and then only because I rigged a blue tarp up across the entrance to intercept wind-blown rain. They spotted it from the air... Up 'til then, the brown worked just fine.. I've a new location and a 10X20 camo tarp now.....

So, is camo over-rated? It all depends....

Good points, people may be easier to fool then critters.

Hmm, sounds like an interesting story I'd like to hear sometime. Along with any others you may care to share.

It's funny. I really love this thread. I'm a pro-staffer for a deer hunting magazine. We get a thread over at that forum about camo, and it goes in the completely opposite direction.

The reason is that a good number of the responders are the kind of guys that read magazines a lot. More importantly, these are the kind of guys that take magazines seriously.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing magazines or magazine articles or magazine writers. It is just that, if you are just getting into hunting, or if you don't have a whole lot of people around you that hunt, you may not know the reality of hunting. I was like that for probably the first decade of my hunting experience.

If you read a magazine, you have people in camo talking about the need for camo. It is all very consumer-oriented information. The question is never "is camo necessary?" It's always "Which camo is best?" When you pick it apart, it all starts looking like grown men diving into the same hole as teen fashion.

I'm somewhat of a heretic, in that I came from that kind of mindset. Over time, I started to question a whole lot of things, and actually started to test ideas. Take camo for instance. I started deliberately hunting in brown Carharts just to see what would happen. Nothing. Eureka!

It is not that camo is counter-productive. It does help up to a point. It is just that you don't necessarily NEED camo, and you also don't NEED to be all that concerned with it.

One other observation and then I need to run. A big difference between the folks here and the folks elsewhere is that you keep hearing from them this idea of "The Edge." It embraces a whole bunch of consumerist attitudes, but basically the idea is that you can somehow buy your way into successful hunting. A better camo will somehow substitute for lack of experience, or practice, or knowledge.

Hmm, interesting observation.

The same is true of other sports, hobbies. Supplements to replace poor nutrition and exercise in the world of athletics, the latest optic/bullet/gadget for guns in the 3 gun world/long range precision/et al.

Seems everything can be improved by going back to basics and refining.

I really like old school camos. Ie: Mossy Oak bottom land. Drake Old School and the BDU mil-surp stuff.

I typically wear a camo shirt with carhartt pants. I like their 'stone' color. It works well.

For sucks, though, I wear the Max-4 Advantage. I really feel ducks/geese can see much better and it's needed to blend into a marsh when they have the arial advantage. And, they see some colors, too.

I believe camo is overrated and certainly, the marketing is clearly aimed at convincing us that we NEED this camo or this newest pattern or ultimately, that our success depends on wearing THEIR latest camo pattern.

We've bought into this to the point of camo becoming "fashionable". If you don't believe that, witness the numbers of seat covers, bedspreads, blankets, cargo shorts, easy chairs, and a multitude of other camo non-hunting "stuff" that is out there.

I don't believe for one second deer, turkeys etc give one whit what you're wearing.

I've bought and worn camo for years and just the last few years have gone away from it for no other reason to convince myself I don't NEED it. I proved my point for good this past spring when I shot a gobbler wearing no camo.


It was wet, rainy and foggy. I was in a little low spot against a little pine tree, peeking around at two gobblers up on a hill when 5 surprised me from my left. I was completely exposed, just against a tree. I ended up moving when they were at about 30 feet just to make them turn. As I slowly moved and raised my gun they just got nervous and changed directions which gave me a shot. They never did recognize me for what I was.

I WAS wearing a headnet to cover my face and gloves. I believe that shining white face is our weakest link, especially at close range. Look at the photo above, my clothing is earthtones and approximately accurate for the landscape, but those hands and that face stand out.

My point is, turkey eyesight is legendary and I managed to kill one without camo, but I believe ANY game animal will key in on movement long before defining what you are.

So I've proven, to myself at least, that camo is not necessary for success. Camo is something relatively new on the scene. Game has been killed for generations without the use of camo.
I still have plenty of camo clothing and will continue to use what I have. But as I replace clothing, I have no need to pay extra for various patented camo patterns.

As far as Sitka gear, I know there are those who love it. I ordered a pair of pants and ended up selling them in the classified ads here. Simply WAY overrated IMO...just not for me at the proud prices they charge. Other non-camo pants will work just as well if not better at lower prices. Not knocking Sitka gear, just not for me.

So there's my $1 and .02 cents worth.

Last fall I shot an elk out of a herd of about 80 that was scattered along an open ridge top and in a basin near the top. The approach was wide open, in plain view, as I climbed 2000' over a mile long hike. The 'cover' was knee high sagebrush, nothing else. I was wearing solid green shirt and pants with a dark blue cap, no camo at all. Since I was in plain sight for the whole time, I moved slowly and tried to keep going straight at them to minimize sideways motion. Finally, at 350 yds (lasered), I decided that I was risking it all to get closer so I took my shot from there.

I planned how I moved and I had the wind. I'm convinced that I could have been wearing a clown suit and got just as close. They just weren't watching. I guess they felt safety in numbers and assumed that no one was dumb enough to climb up to where they were. I shot my cow on a VERY steep place. I rolled her down about 400 yds before dressing her while a group of about a dozen cows stood on a knoll 200 yds away watching me and barking the whole time.

I've started going out of my way NOT to buy camo. However, the "camo mentality" is so entrenched in the industry that it is sometimes difficult to find non-camo gear.

I'd like to have some Cabelas Micro-Tec pants and shirt but they don't make solid colors. Same with the Wooltimate line, all camo. I've bought some LL Bean heavy wool cargo pants in the past year and a solid olive green Columbia soft shell jacket. Not top-of-the-line gear but plenty functional for me and not priced at absurd prices.

I see all types of gear, for instance a rangefinder, that is like $10-$20 more for the camo version vs. plain black.

The camo gear would be funny if it didn't cost so much. Flashlights, trekking poles, fire starters, etc, all a joke. A lot of that stuff is counter productive since I know I'd lose it if it's not a bright color. I'm a klutz. I have a camo knife & arrow head sharpener (it only came in camo) that's I've lost in plain sight a couple times while skinning out animals. I'm not likely to spook a dead deer with a bright orange sharpener.

Then there's the camo toilet paper. Some is marketed as a joke but some is supposed to be serious. The advertized idea is to keep other hunters from seeing your bright white paper and shooting at you. Well, I guess if you want to expose your rosy red to the public, camo TP might be useful, but I'm usually a bit more secluded. My bare non-cammoed fanny will glow in the sunshine a lot more than the TP will.

I try to match the location I'm hunting.

Example, Sitka blacktail buck shot in Alaska at 20'. Fish images on the shirt are Salmon




Whitetail shot in Texas. Fish images on shirt are Seatrout, Reds etc.






It would make no sense to wear a Salmon shirt in Texas just as it wouldn't make sense to wear the Seatrout shirt in Alaska. You have to match your surroundings.

To the guy just getting started, like most of us, I suspect that you may have a somewhat limited budget for items that are used only for hunting.
Please focus your hunting clothes dollar more on the function of the item than the camo pattern. Warmth or waterproof-ness, "quiet" cloth, all trump camo pattern. The good news there is that these positive attributes are most often found in a camo pattern. Don't agonize over which one or pay a premium for the latest and greatest gimmick.

I grew up in a time where the only guys who had camo were bird hunters, followed later by the bow hunters. I killed a lot of stuff before I ever had much camo, including a fair number of called coyotes while wearing flannel shirts and blue jeans. (pure heresy!)

Some have mentioned face covering above - that is truly very important. The human face shines like a lantern in many hunting circumstances.

I once read one of these internet forums where a bunch of guys were trash-talking a guy who had made a very successful coyote calling video, their trash talk relating to the fact that he was wearing tennis shoes instead of camo'ed boots - no way could the footage not be fake... A bunch of guys showing how deeply they'd drank the kool-aid. And people wonder how Obama got elected...

Focus those dollars on fit and function to afford yourself more time out hunting and shooting. That is far more important than camo pattern.

One of the Christmas presents my son recieved from an aunt a couple of years ago was a gag gift that included two rolls of blaze orange TP. I knew that I'd raised a fine young red-neck when weeks later I noticed that those rolls had a place of honor under the back window of his car, one on each side....

like in every other facet of hunting theres a few guys that get it done correctly and a huge majority that might try but get it all screwed up, trying to get it right
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=2353&p=31936#p31936

I am working at getting my wife to make a necktie with camo pattern. That, is another thing altogether.

Reminds me of some of the lingerie ad's with the gals in the camo bikini underwear. Kinda interesting, but it'd only slow me down....

Not a stitch of camo here, though the colors were fairly neutral:

The shiny old Super BlackHawk .44 that I used to pack "way back when" must have blinded him to death....

Even this little mid range guy didn't care.

About the only thing I camo up for is turkey.

Do you want to look like a bush or tag an animal?

We can put a lot of effort into secondary goals. In the ghillie photos linked, two steps in any direction would change the background enough to make the wearer stand out as much as if Steelhead had used a salmon pattern shirt in Texas. Does a ghillie wearer change suits every few feet?

Camo is useful for calling critters that depend on their eyes more than scent (neither deer nor even coyotes fit that definition). I use it for such calling stands.

Animals have keen senses but don't require anywhere near the camo needed to evade military optics with a human brain behind them

For each story of a critter that came close to a camoed human, I and others can report having deer, elk, black bears, coyotes, foxes, etc. within touching distance when we were wearing no camo.

Bottom line however: If it helps a hunter's confidence he should wear it head to foot.

I have an old set of German Flecktarn that i picked up for under 20 bucks in a surplus store in Germany. Works well for Spring turkey and warm weather bowhunts.

I don't wear camo and the best mask for scent is using the wind in your favor, nothing more.

This all makes me think of one of the times I got busted by a coyote from way out there where I really had no reasonable expectation for having that happen. Nor a reasonable explanation.

I was set up in a fence row with camo head to toe, face mask, tree at my back, camo'd gloves, even. Even better yet, there was a treeline behind me that was about 60 yards away and was really a solid black back-drop. I thought.

I called and had a coyote on a string coming at me through abandoned pasture salted with a few multiflora roses and cedars. At one point I had let up on the call and then went to move the call the inch or two back to my mouth. AT that slight motion that coyote became electric and left the county. At the time I was perplexed as to why that happened. Everything was in my favor. Wind, camo, backdrop, you name it.

The coyote had spooked right beside a small cedar that I was able to mark and step-off the distance to. >400 yards and that coyote had spooked with the wind NOT in his favor. I looked back at the fencerow I had been in and saw nothing but black against a background of black provided by the woods that was 60 yards or so farther behind where I had been.

There was absolutely no explanation behind why I had failed, until I got down on my hands and knees beside that small cedar.

From that perspective the view before me was a perfect side-view of the 4 feet of the tree trunk I had been a part of, hopelessly silhouetted courtesy of a 10x10 (?) hole in the branches/leaves of that 60 yard black back-drop I thought I had.

Color or pattern did not matter, movement did. I can not think of any color or pattern based analogy similar to that that I've experienced.

I'll qualify that by stating that I'm just a simple hunter in this for my own benefit.

Wearing good camo and stalking deer in the juniper covered ridges around the lower areas of the Pecos river, I have had deer see my movement from 40 or so yards and come to attention. Then, I stayed motionless as they have approached while looking for what moved. Many times I thought they had me spotted and the jig was up, only to realize they were looking 'through me' and not seeing me, as they kept looking around and sometimes passing by only yards away.

The same has happened with elk.

I have walked while hunting and wearing ASAT camo and had deer see movement and look at me. When I stopped moving, they would loose me and often go back to feeding if I stayed still.

Deer in the east texas woods are deathly afraid of camo and if the see it move they will quickly leave the area, with the knowledge they have trouble honing in on it. Yes, as someone previously said, deer in many areas where visibility is short, do their business while looking for the white of a face or hand in the forest. For that reason, while sneaking through woods, I wear a face net and don't move my arms much and move slowly while carrying my gun or bow down as low as I can. My best camo in the early part of the season in the pine and oak ridges and pin oak and gum bottoms is the dark green/ black dickies. Deer see me coming quite easily and from a distance, but they think it is a cow and don't pay attention until I am close enough to pick them up, if I am moving real slow and taking my time looking hard for movement ahead of me. Generally, it helps to be moving much slower than a traveling buck.

My brother and I, archery hunting, have had bull elk see us sitting and come to within 3 yards trying to figure out what we were. Don't expect that with a red emblem showing on a cap. Predator camo is great if you need to be close, but we have done well wearing grey wool rich pants at times. Carhart color has been good while calling elk.

I consider carhartt or grey to be camo in many hunting environments, as I do the wonderful dark tan thinsulate insulated Wranglers.

I have never had wild turkeys come close in the fall if I was sitting on a live oak limb in central texas while having bright colored fetching on my arrows. Even without movement and otherwise having total camo they have always nailed me. I have stalked and drilled a few though, with total camo.

Camo is not necessary if one is a great hunter, sits on a ridge and shoots a long way, is still and has an animal travel over him, or is real lucky, but it helps if it blends in to the environment and one is subject to Murphy's Law.

And, there no getting away from it, it just looks SO COOL!

I wear full blaze orange head to toe while white tail deer hunting and have shot over 100 deer all in full blaze. as long as you know the wind and DONT MOVE you are good. I have never had a deer see me because of orange it was movement or scent and my fault and i knew it the joys of being busted. if you sit in a tree long enough you learn alot. I have had deer stare at me 10 to 15 feet away trying to figure out what i was a few times only thing i can say is you will never win a starring contest with a deer. I do think cammo would be a good idea when bow hunting or hunting close to the game trails as i never sit on a trail always off to the side as far as I can and still be able to get a clear shot. but deer that travel the same trails know what is suposed to be there and what is not.

Avoid UV brightened detergents for your clothes (get a "sportsman's wash - a bottle is cheap and will last a long time), odors, movement and solid colors (break up your outline) and you will be way ahead of those who don't.

While usually I wear camo, I don't pay much attention to the pattern - anything that breaks up my outline is better than nothing.

That said, I've often hunted in blue jeans and always have to wear blaze orange outer gear (on upper body and head minimum) when hunting in Colorado. Camo orange isn't legal so I rub dirt on it.

Ah! Now there you have the ultimate consumerist fashion notion: UV. Invisible rays that can only be removed by a secret spray. I've written extensively on this.

1) Although a deer's eyes are built to receive UV, they are not built to resolve an image.
2) For all the so-called scientific testing, no one has shown deer have an aversion to UV.
3) Your clothing fluoresces in visible light in response to UV. That's why they put UV brighteners in your clothes, so the whole idea that deer seeing you in the UV part of the spectrum is bogus. Read up on the difference between fluorescence vs reflectance. You'll see what I mean.
4) At the request a manufacturer of the most popular anti-UV spray, I tested their product. The details are on my weblog. The bottom line: totally bogus and largely ineffective even for what they claimed the stuff could do.
5) For any game species other than cervids (deer, elk, etc.) anti-UV is completely ridiculous. They do not have the receptors.

Now, here's an article from just a short while back:

http://genesis9.angzva.com/?p=1605

Studies on reindeer indicate that they too can see in UV. However, what that does for them is allow them to see dark, non-UV reflective objects against a hi-UV background on snow. What has low UV reflectance? Predators like arctic wolves. The white fur shows up dark on the snow in UV. What this means is that (if anything) deer probably are more adverse to a LACK of UV.

Read through my weblog using "elephant repellent" , "UV" and such as keywords.

If you are still unconvinced after reading all my stuff, just take your hunting clothes and wash them once in hot water. So much for UV brighteners.

Limit the blue tape on your muzzle and odds increase tenfold

So true.

good point.....a field of flowers is gonna be a huge UV beacon, its how they attract bees....the natural world is full of non threatening things that is gonna reflect and fluoresce UV.....

A while back, I limited out on ducks here on the coast with my son wearing a white University of Texas jersey, inside out of course in case any of the ducks were Aggies or Sooners

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When it comes to wearing clothing for hunting the first thing I look at is how quite is the material. A lot of the camo out now has some sort of nylon in it and makes to much noise. I look for neutral colors because when you are hunting on open hillsides with bunch grass fancy camo really makes you stand out. All you need is something that breaks up your features, Washington dictates that you wear hunter orange. My son and I have camo orange vests and when crossing a hillside I have known he was crossing I could see him. I do wear camo for elk, not to hide from the elk but to hide from other hunters. I have been sitting under trees and had guys walk up to were I am and start glassing and taking off their packs. That is when I clear my throat and watch them pee themselves. Camo for most hunting situations is not really that big of a deal, but I feel that it is a marketing gimmick to sell cloths.

A couple of points.

1. Camo has become the hunters uniform and anyone wearing camo represents the entire hunting community. I tell my firearm safety students that if they act like a jerk in McDonalds in July while wearing camo, you have negatively impacted non-hunting people. Be careful with this. I smile and say, "go ahead and act like jerks, just dont do it wearing camo. Of course, your parents just rolled their eyes at that statement!"

2. You cant prove a negative. All of the testimony that someone got close to game while not wearing camo is not proof that camo isnt better. Say they got within 30 feet of 400 deer in the last 20 years while not wearing camo. Well, by wearing camo, that may have been 420. or 520. who knows and it cannot be proven one way or the other without some serious scientific methods.

If you are happy not wearing camo, fine. If you like it, fine. I would not laugh at or disparage either group. I personally like it as I like the garments that it comes in (Cabelas wooltimate is a great example as it does not come in in non-camo).

the point alot of guys have is camo is about breaking up your outline and you dont need camo patterns to do it.....to a critter that basically sees in grayscale by putting on a dark shirt and light pants you have broken up your outline quite a bit.....in alot of places the right plaid patterns do just as good of a job breaking up your outline as any camo pattern.....


and movement awareness and scent control(even just playing the wind right to hell with magic sprays) are far more important than breaking up your outline....

Better than no camo? Yes.

Overrated as to how much better? Yes.

What shaman said. Fluorescent orange absorbs UV and emits orange light, that's why it's brighter than plain old orange. Very little if any UV gets reflected back to the deer. Also deer don't see orange very well, looks like a muddy brown to them. See NY DEC for pictures and a short explanation of both points.

The biggest problem with commercial camo is not wearing it in the hills, but when worn out in public.

It automatically pegs you as a hunter, which means you're a target for the bubba hunters to corner you and tell you all about their thousand yard top of the backline hold shot with their 300 Ultra Mags. You're wearing camo, so of course you wanna hear my "hunting stories", right?

Wearing camo in public also pegs you as a bubba to non-hunters, or locals who are pissed off at being overrun with bubbas and just want their towns and countryside back to themselves. This often results in jeers as you walk by, or other locals attempting to sell you something. You're wearing camo, so you need to use me for your taxidermy, right?

There's this whole camo-as-fashion thing that has come on in the past couple decades. Me? I am of the opinion that camo duds belong in the field. However, I see a lot of folks wearing camo out in public now. It's a statement about lifestyle and attitude, in the same was wearing the Stars and Bars used to be-- something vague about freedom and the outdoors and doing what I want to do.

Then there is the idea of Mossy Oak as a sign of affluence. If you wear the latest camo pattern, it shows you can afford the newest and best. You know someone that wears Realtree APC is doing so because he can. You also know that someone who has some oddball splotchy camo shops at the Dollar Store.

Pink Camo? Now camo is making a political statement too. Chicks who wear pink camo are saying they can hunt like the men. I have a daughter-in-law that is big into pink camo.

Urban camo marks you as a bad mofo. Never mind your backpack has Ninja Turtles on it.

Me? When I need to take the bus, I wear my old M65 in GI ERDL and talk to myself openly. In 30-some years, no one has ever tried anything, in fact I can always get a seat by myself, no matter how crowded it is.

"Me? When I need to take the bus, I wear my old M65 in GI ERDL and talk to myself openly. In 30-some years, no one has ever tried anything, in fact I can always get a seat by myself, no matter how crowded it is."

Are you sure that fact is due to your actions or the lack of personal hygiene?

+1, and like GregW said, some of my light jackets happen to be camo, but not necessary. I'm simple minded...and pay attention to wind, shade, etc.

JGR- nice that you mention shade...I thought I was the only one. Virtually everyone I know thinks nothing whatsoever of walking in the open in the sunlight. Never occurs to them not to...
A close bud operated that way till I took him hunting one day...until that day he did not know it was possible to sneak up on a whitetail and kill it...

I like Camo. It doesn't make much difference with game animals, but I can hide from other hunters, game wardens, ranch foreman, and landowners a lot better.

As a disabled hunter I make good use of camouflage - I painted my Red Ford Explorer green.

shaman, interesting remarks on camo as a statement. There's a tendency here to look upon people wearing new camo in the latest pattern, coordinated from head to foot, as dudes. People more interested in showing their cool than in hunting. Not so long ago someone not wearing farm chore clothes was looked at askance, outside of waterfowl hunters that is. That's changed as camo has become more common on the racks of course. But still I tend to avoid the coordinated look and replace items singly as they go on sale to fit in. Saves money and the game doesn't care.

I read about a greenhorn who was hunting in New England. He went into a small town store wearing blaze orange hat, coat, and pants. The grizzled locals, who wore nothing brighter than a red plaid cap, looked him over and one said "Sonny, aren't you taking an awful chance with those brown boots?"

Camo or I don't hunt.













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Of course not. Guys like that only eat rice and drink and bathe in rainwater so the bad guys don't smell them.

You don't see teh shade thing mentioned often. I often wonder how folks miss it though, a deer in the shade or walking through the shade is often hard and for sure harder to spot. When one walks out of the shade into the sunlight its like someone turned a spotlight on it.

If it works that way on game, you KNOW it works that way for you.

Unfortunately shade isn't always available for a given route but we sure try to take BIG advantage of it if we can.

Yep, your from East Texas. Didn't know camo worked in the dark though.

Awesome stuff. Camo is a marketing gimmick for fashion-conscious hunters. I admit I like the "morning wood" pattern.

I much prefer the European approach - muted earth tones and a preference for Loden green. Looks good in town, works good in the bush.
I wish some of the good USA hunting clothing was available in loden instead of camo. And I also resent paying a royalty to the marketers who tack on a few bucks to the cost of every camo garment.

Just saw a sow last night-shooting hogs from a helicopter in Texas. The dudes in the chopper were wearing camo...I'll bet those hogs never suspected a thing.....

She must have been one pissed little piggy.

Yeah, and all those professional TV show/hunters that crawl into a blind wearing full camo are hiding their azzzes off too.

I hunted crows for many years and needed all the camo I could get. Since the camo was my "hunting clothes" I also wore them hunting squirrels, deer, ducks, whatever. Deer can't see the red/orange colors, hence hunters orange for safty.

I don't think there is any disadvantage to wearing camo unless you wear it to town and some little old lady gets upset with you.

I hunted coyotes and bobcats with a guide down in Texas. The guide had video of himself shooting a double on coyotes and several bobcats while wearing a Santa Claus suit.

He was in the open, so the predators could fully see him. He simply did not move.

Movement, not color or pattern, makes all the difference.

Most camoflage is simply marketing.

I choose clothing that performs and is comfortable, waterproof, windproof, warm, etc. I will admit that most of my clothing is camo because they meet these attributes. I've dumped several pieces of clothing that haven't. But I also have pieces that aren't camo. I keep them around for the same reasons and I'm not afraid to mix and match. I do have a couple of pieces that claim to have "scent control" features, but I still rely on wind direction to mask my order when possible.

Oh, I don't wear it as casual clothing...ever.

I have a couple of Kuiu camo clothes. The four way stretch makes them much better than any other clothes I have hunted or hiked in. That they are made in camo is just a bonus.

When I lived in Pennsylvania, I killed 3 deer a ranges so close I could easily have hit them with rock. My technique was to sit on the ground with my back to a fallen tree clothed in a solid blaze orange jacket.

Damn, Scott! I wasted all that money on camo TP stock? You were the one that told me to invest in it.

Oh, wait.... it's up.

Never mind.

Francis Sell wrote, the less you move the more you see. I have found stillness to be a key point to hunting success.

That said, I have walked for long distances with deer herds by imitating there actions. The lifted head stare, short rapid changes of direction, etc... They were not alarmed as long as I mimicked their actions.

My Samauri is camo.

My Samauri is camo.

RiesigJay,

Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I just found this thread. The reason I wear camo is one of the guys I know who was shot was wearing blaze orange. I don't know what the other guy was wearing.

Another guy I know who was shot at was me. It happened long before camo or blaze orange was available. Forty-nine years ago my wife made a very bright shirt for me. It had a red sleeve with a half yellow chest and back. The other half of the chest and back was red and the other sleeve was yellow. Very obviously not a deer. A bullet hit near me and then I heard the shot. I looked up from where the shot came and, like in the movies, saw light glint off the barrel. I yelled at the guy and got behind some trees.

I wear camo to be concealed from the other hunters.

The fallacy with that is the idiots who take shots at anything that moves.

The irony is Wrongman glassing with his rifle scope, which he admits doing...

I wonder if he's the dumbass who shot his friend?

The fallacy with your thought is the idiots don't see someone wearing camo as easily they see the bright colors. I was already shot at while wearing bright. It has not happened since I stopped wearing bright.

I can tell you of 1 case where orange definitely saved a man's life. My sister's FIL was watching a buck walk through some quakies. As it moved through a clearing, he was just ready to shoot at the neck when he caught a slight glimpse of orange. It was his partner's cap. He was packing out the deer on his back with the head hanging over his shoulder. The orange was the top of his cap that barely stuck up enough to see over the neck. Scary!!!

And the fallacy here is that there are "hunters" [sic] that will take "sound shots" even if they don't see anything.

I have long theorized that once in a great while brain cells do a dyslexic reversal in an excitable hunter who is intently looking for game, and his brain suddenly shouts, "ORANGE! SHOOT!"

It is my attempt to figure out why once in a while a hunter in orange in wide open is killed by a bullet from well within visual range.

I'm sure hunter orange spares lives and injuries in far greater numbers than such an anomoly might cause, even if my theory is correct. I wear hunter orange where required by law and slectively in other situations: while packing game, in an area with other hunters, or working cover with a partner so he can keep track of me easier.

Wow. This is the most bat-schit crazy line of thinking I've ever heard.

Because there are soooo many guys out there that willingly shoot at other people these days.....THOSE are the guys you gotta watch out for, not the accidents...no sirree...it is the guys that take aim at you on purpose.

Holy crap, you simply cannot get enough states between me and that guy.

I thought that happened only in magazine photos. It borders on mental illness to carry a buck over your shoulder without camoing the deer.

My uncle was shot by his "friend" who was "sound" hunting. Fortunately the bullet went between the ulna and the radial. It took years to fully heal.

Are you talking about shooting at someone wearing bright clothes? I agree with you.

You Rich, you are nuttier than squirrel [bleep].

Why would you be needing to hide from foreman, wardens and land owners, Allen?

Every now and then I read something that is clearly, Award winning. Holy [bleep].



As the First Place Trophy shows, you're the expert on Mental Illness.

I can only hope the DMV has revoked your driving privileges..

Seriously, you own firearms?

Question: How do you camo a deer you're carrying over your shoulder?

Do you cut down a pine tree and strap it to the deer so it looks like you're packing out a Xmas tree?

Buy the deer his own set of Mossy Oak camo pants and jacket? (Doing double duty if you buy Scentlock, then you won't smell like a dead deer to all those hunters with really good senses of smell...in case he shoots at not only sound but smell).

Maybe dress the deer up like your ex-wife, so everyone thinks you're simply on your way to bury the body?

I would really like to see pictures of this method in action.

You don't wonder about someone's mentality who carries a deer over his shoulder during hunting season?

I carry a camo T-shirt and stretch it over the antlers and head.



I will leave the obvious mental picture of concealed deer antlers for you imagine.

I wonder about the mentality of some who says,



You're saying just camo the buck while carrying over your shoulders,

All complete stupidity, carrying a camo'ed buck while dressed in dark clothing, Again, Award winning stuff.

Now let's talk about concealing deer antlers, some tips please?

Read the above post.

I would never carry a deer over my shoulder. In my day pack is a plasticized 6x8 tarp that is part of my "survival gear. I lay the tarp on the ground, roll the deer on it, and then gather up one end and tie the head into it. Then I measure out several feet of parachute cord and tie that into a loop at the head end of the tarp. I step into the loop and put the front of the loop behind my head and the two running lines go under my arm pits. And I start walking. Both hands are free and the deer and tarp just tags along.

You can make it easier by cutting a short, stout limb and rigging the chest rope like a water ski tow rope. Pushing on a stick is FAR easier than having a rope cutting into you.

Sit on a sand hill in west texas wearing black and trying to call coyotes in to kill before you try and feed me BS. Yea, in sept or oct you can prove your point- on those young, dumb pups of the year.


Always remember when hunting, are you wanting the young dumb one, or the old smart one. Animals are like people in some ways. Some are smart and some are dumb, be it coyotes, geese, deer or elk.

All bozos know that for dove you can wear blue jeans and white tee shirt and red cap and have a party downing them and beer, the first weekend. They mop up on the immature spotted wings the first couple weeks of season then they quit hunting as the birds just aren't coming in.

For the mature and big northern birds moving in later and you best be keeping your trap closed and camoed behind a mesquite bush or they will locate you from their afternoon perch after feeding and before assaulting the evening waterhole from a few hundred yards away and leave you high and dry for an un-gunned waterhole elsewhere.

You don't need it, but some good gear happens to come in camo. Things that could be set down and lost should not be in camo. For clothes, I do kind of like camo for gutting and such. Once the blood dries, it's barely visible.

I'm not so sure. They are a great tool if you know how to make and veg' one but otherwise they look like overly juted wookies. I also sweat to death in one and if not cleaned often they take on an ammonia smell pretty quickly in warm weather.

Wow! it is amazing how much money our government has spent on camo patterns for the military. They could have save millions by just coming to the Campfire and finding out how unnecessary it really is.

Yea, cuzz hiding from Vietcong and deer are the same thing and suffer the same consequences if spotted...

Ha!

not to mention we are dealing with one critter that can see color and detail really well(us) and another that cant(deer) [bleep] me common sense really is near extinct.....

Well . . . actually deer can see color. Dogs can see color too. It's just different for them. Deer have deeply attenuated red vision that makes hunter orange look like the color of maple leaves getting ready to fall-- a rough approximation.

This brings up an interesting point. Why is camo such a good, necessary thing in the military and not with deer hunting? The answer is kind of complicated.

First off, human brains just aren't tuned like prey species. A deer's eyes and minds are much better able to pick up movement. Our eyes are better able to pick up subtle color differentiation.

Second, we understand our world in a completely different way. We can anticipate danger and dangerous situations a lot better. We can reason things out. An animal sees a lush growth of alfalfa as a bonanza in the middle of the forest. We however, can see it as a food plot and a potential ambush site. We also understand that a hunting blind might have something inside of it.

Third, we have a better-developed theory of mind (what goes on in the other guy's head). Deer stick their heads behind a tree and they think they're hidden, even though their butt's hanging out. We can anticipate what the other guy's thinking.

Humans also have a concept of mortality far better developed than a deer. I've watched a lot of deer. Believe me when I say that their concept of life and death is not like ours.

Lastly remember that modern military camo is there to not only fool human vision, but that of electronically enhanced vision (night vision, etc.) It always blows my mind when I see pixellated camo meant for hunting animals-- like the deer and turkey are somehow going to get night-vision scopes!

yeah but its different just like an eagles vision is different than ours.....the acuity at which deer see color is no where near ours and most birds kick our arses......

Indeed. It's amazing the government spends millions on public education yet turns out specimens like HitnRun who seem to lack critical thinking skills.

Also, consider the need for a "uniform" that tells one side from the other. If every military in the world wore the exact same camo we'd have a lot more blue-on-blues.

You becha Einstein, Critical thinking skills is exactly what is lacking in all the unnecessary need of camo, but when that is mentioned "tongue in cheek" all of a sudden it becomes necessary. We should have breakfast with all the "Waffling" going on here.

Perntly no one has sliped into a bar with a bra on his head in cognieto.grin