Is the 6.5mm 123 grain Scenar a hunting bullet? If so, what are the velocity parameters.

From the Lapua Website:

Scenar
The first choice for serious target competition. Lapua Scenar hollow point boat tail bullets have given suberb results at long ranges and bench rest shooting.The Scenar bullets have the IBS World Record in 600 yard Heavy Gun 5-shot group (0.404�) and also hold the official world ISSF record of 600 out of 600 possible, an unbeatable score.

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/bullets

In short, it's a match bullet. Use it as you see fit.

Thanks.

I have used the 123gr Scenar on game. It worked...



Have used the 139 on elk successfully also, still haven't recovered one.

I had two bang flops on antelope this year using that bullet. One was 100 yards, one was 300 yards.

I shot an antelope and this small mule deer with the 123 gr Scenar. The antelope was hit high, about 4" below the spine so I can't really say anything about he performance there. The mule deer made a big circle, maybe 30 ft and died about 2 ft from where I shot him. The pic shows the entrance hole and there was no exit. Everything inside was jelly. Some bullet fragments did make it into the guts. I'm not going to say anything on the performance based on a sample of one, but I'll definitely pay close attention to shot placement if I use this bullet on game in the future.

Lets see.

In one corner we have the Lapua website. In the other corner we have Pat (Scenarshooter) and his very impressive portfolio of Scenar killed critters taken over a number of years...

Hmmm...

My money's on Pat...

DF

I had a similar experience with a 90 Scenar out of my .240 at over 3,400 fps. It liquified the chest of a WT doe. Pat sent me some 105 6mm Scenars to try but my 10 twist wouldn't stabilize them. A number of experienced hunters praise the 105 in an appropriately twisted 6mm rifle.

I guess we gotta chose the right bullet for the critter being hunting and the speed of the round being used.

DF

Couldn't be that easy!

Naw...

Gotta be more complicated than that...

What was I thinking...

DF

Given who the OP is, the velocity parameters are VERY important. How do they hold up at hyper speed? Ringman is not one to shoot normal cartridges, and most of his rounds are FAST.

ironeagle_84,

You found the 6.5SLR cartridge, I hope. The Weatherby is at the 'smith to be reamed with that reamer. He told me he would start on it today.

Also I have a new wildcat on the way. It is the one I will use the 123 Scenars in. As soon as I get a formed case I will drop one off for you. The body will be a .338 RUM to shoulder /neck junction with a 7 RUM case length giving it a longer than normal neck length.

Ben at Hornady named it 6.5Rumln. I asked him what that stands for. He said, "That is 6.5 Remington Ultra Magnum Long Neck." According to Nosler manual the .338 holds 103 grains of water. I am hoping for 3,850 feet per second with these bullets. I would like to find some solid copper bullets in that weight range with a high BC in case these can't handle the higher impact velocity. Maybe someone here knows of one.

Ringman, I did, THANK YOU! That is a sweet looking round.

Here are some bullets in that range...

Cutting Edge

Barnes

Matrix Bullets

You saying Ringman's not normal or he just doesn't shoot normal ctgs.??

Seriously, the 123 gr. Scenar pushed to Ringman velocities may end up like the 90 gr. Scenar in the .240. Just too much speed for the bullet.

Now, the 6.5 mm 123 gr. Scenar may be a stouter bullet than the 6 mm 90 gr. Scenar. I know what 3,400 fps will do to the 90 gr. version, turn a WT chest into red soup. Pretty nasty clean up at the skinning shed.

There are reports that the Scenar 139 does very well on hogs and such, maxed out in a 26 Nosler. I don't know of any critter performance reports on the 123 at 3,400 fps or so.. May do OK, or may be like the 90 gr. Scenar/.240 scenario.

Bottom line, one needs to understand velocity specific bullet performance. The 26 Nosler was built around the 129 gr. ABLR. Those Accubonds hold together pretty well and don't seem to have a critical velocity ceiling. I'm currently working with 120 gr. E-Tips. They for sure don't have a velocity ceiling.

I'm waiting for reports on the 123 Scenar.

Interesting Loony stuff, for sure...

DF

Loony stuff.

How correct is that?

I wish i could say, but i dont shoot anything like that except my 22-250 AI. I use varmint bullets though, and they are supposed to blow up.

Only a hard core Loony could get torqued out over bullets, velocities, performance on various critters, etc...

DF

If I had a gun that had power to push those speeds, I would step up to the 139. I'd run a 139 now, but the Swede isn't a power house.

I run the 139 Scenar in my Swede, a 98 FN Mauser/Shilen, because it's the best shooting bullet in that gun.

I need to try the 139 in my 6.5-284, now shooting 140 Hunting VLD's. At around 3K fps, that bullet works pretty well on game and is very accurate.

I was working up 140 VLD loads for the 26 Nosler, but abandoned that effort. The Hunting version seems to have a 3,200 fps performance ceiling, Berger limiting their 26 Nosler data to 3,150 fps. The 139 Scenar is a tougher bullet than the VLD and reportedly performs well in the 26 Nosler at 3,300 fps.

DF

Thanks, ironeagle_84, for the links. The Barnes I'm familiar with. The others are new and there is a good posibility one or two are in my future.

Gentlemen, check out the meplat on this one!

Caliber Inches: .264
Weight, grains: 130.0
Core Density, lb/ci-in: 0.4097
Core Weight, grains: 87.5
Jacket Density, lb/ci-in: 0.32
Jacket Weight, lb/ci-in: 42.5
Ogive Radius, calibers: 10.0
Meplat Diameter, inches: 0.9
BC (static): 0.4869

Check out the BC on this one.


.264 calibre 160GR VLD rifle bullet Caliber Inches: .264
Weight, grains: 160
G1 BC .685
1-8 twist

Edited to add second bullet.

Push a match bullet to 3850???

Yeah, I'm sure that will turn out fine for you...(head shaking)...

As they say, common sense isn't common. I hope a critter doesn't end up suffering as an unwilling participant in your little "experiment"

Thank you. I hope things go well for you this year, also.



Me too. But it's not an experiment. Others already use it with success. I killed a deer one time with a .300 Win Mag firing match bullets. It was spectacular. Despite a perfect behind the shoulder shot the near side scapular went thirty to forty feet in the air. The exit wound was at least 4 1/2" and maybe 5" across. One could see shinny bits of lead core throughout the expansive wound. That was certainly messy.

By the way, welcome to the 'fire.

Ringman,

With the round you're working with and the velocity, I'd check out Matrix. They have 6.5 mm 150 gr./160 gr. VLD's and also have bonded hunting bullets.

The heavier, slower and higher B.C. bullets may out perform the hyper vel, lighter bullets at LR.

DF

Dirtfarmer,



I followed one of ironeagle_84's link and ordered some yesterday. Thanks for the positive reinforcement. Although I excel at ignorance, with the help of my .com friends I may do something right. The Leupold VX-6 4-24X52 I have is something someone here recommended. It sure seems better than either the Bushnell 6500 during day and the Swarovski z5 in low light. The Talley rings for it and the Swarovski came from a suggestion here.

But here is something for those who don't know about it yet and want to reduce weight on a lightweight build. MicroCell recoil pads are really light. The 1.26" model weighs 2.9 ounces! The 1/2" model weighs somewhere under two ounces. I bought them from Hastings. Phone" (717)524-5301

They have VLD's and they have bonded. Not sure they're the same.

You may want to give Marshall a call and pick his brain.

DF

Judging by the case capacity, the new round will gain 95 fps or so over the 26 Nosler. Will be a long ways from 3850 with a 123.

You don't know how I load.

Enlighten us.

oh you have missed his bragging bout using top end loads as his starting place? so long as the accuracy is there he doesnt seem to care what pressures are cause FPS tops all.....

Well, except accuracy. If the bullets fired from my guns are not fast and accurate, they get a new barrel.

Like I just posted on another site, there's SAAMI pressure limits, and then there's the Fire pressure limits...

DF

Here is a man who is ahead of the pack! One of the other wildcatters here claims 3,700 feet per second with a 140 grainer. I am concerned about opening up the bolt face that much to accept the .300 Norma case, so went with the RUM case. His wildcat neck length is better than mine, though.

Here is a fun little thought. There are no SAMMI specs for wildcats. At least we don't establish max loads the way P.O. did: Increase powder till you blow a primer and then back off a grain.

Use JB's "rules" and see what you come up with, comparing your case to the 26 Nosler and 7 Ultra (i.e. rounds that have actually been pressure tested and not random wildcat internet numbers).

So now you're comparing yourself favorably to Ackley?

Did you run your cartridge through Quick Design? Did you do anything other than just guess, using a reference to a random internet wildcat load as basis for what velocities your round would achieve?

I recall that's basically what you did with the 257 SLR. Used an anonymous post on Reloader's Nest as the basis of where you thought your round would be for velocity. Strangely enough, it didn't work! Pretty silly way to go about things considering the tools we have at our disposal these days. But it's your money to spend, and your face to blow off if the gun lets go.

Pass the High BC bullets from 2850-3100 please.

Tanner

The Bible says a live dog is better than a dead lion.

How 'bout a high BC at 3,500 feet per second? It not as fast as a 6.5 Prometheus, but it will still have less wind drift than something traveling 3,100 feet per second.

Do you think people will be shooting your cartridges long after you're gone too?

Next thing, you'll be saying that all you need is a .308 and a "target bullet" to kill elk out to 500. Or some stunt shooter will chime in about a 260 using half the powder and killing elk out past 600.

And then someone else will post about using their scopes to glass, and we'll be right back where it all started....

At least we have the full range (moron thru master) here on the fire!