With the 2015 Colorado Draw hunts looming, I'm looking for a proven outfitter who hunts private land or remote public ground for big mule deer. I have 17 points for Colorado deer now, so I think I can draw into a good area.

Does anyone know or have personal experience with any outfitters who manage and hunt prime ranches that hold the potential for 190" or better bucks. A November 2015 rut hunt would be near perfect. I prefer rifle but would consider MZ.

I also own 14 points for Colorado elk, so a similar 2015 hunt for a big bull in the rut would be attractive also.

Not looking for a low ball, I'm quite willing to pay the going price for the right hunt. Thanks.

Scott Limmer, Comanche Wilderness Outfitters.
Good guy and takes a lot of nice bucks.

Even on property that he doesn't have permission on!!!

I would stay away from him.

I would start with Huntsonora right here on the Fire

Yep, and if cash werent a concern Id hunt in Mexico.

Huntsonora is from Colorado, and Colorado preference points are not going to work very well south of the border...

You got that right pard!

No they won't work in messico. But they will work in colo where huntsonora lives, and also guides AND hunts. win/win.....

Mexico maybe, Alberta for sure. Yes, yes I know tags can be a problem, but quality bucks, while never a slam dunk, are certainly a real possibility.

If cash werent a concern, I'd hunt UT or AZ, and still pick Colorado over mexico..I pm'd the OP with my thoughts.

Oddly enough, I feel my best chance at a 190" buck is staying close to home to hunt the W TX sandhills. Killed 3 there already since 2008. For truly top end bucks and tags you are guaranteed to get, I'd choose Sonora, MX. LO tags in Colorado would probably be a good bet if you know where/who to go with. That being said, 190 class bucks are few and far between no matter where you go.

^^^This^^^ X100

Yup, look him up. He'll give you the straight on CO and I would bank on his word.

Killing a 190-class mule deer is a daunting task.

A 180 will land you in the Honors role of B&C and a 190 will get you into the All Time records.When I started the insanity of chasing mule deer of this caliber the minimum was 195 for typical mule deer.Either are probably more attainable than making the "book" with a non-typical,which is such a long shot that you may as well use up the odds in hitting the lottery instead.You're probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are of killing a B&C non typical mule deer.

I was looking at some stats on whitetails this evening(I could not find similar stats for mule deer);but for the top producing Boone and Crockett whitetail states,the number of whitetail bucks killed from 2009-2011 that qualified for B&C comprised less than 1% of the total deer harvest. Those were the TOP producing states. I recall seeing similar stats for Canada and recall that the "best" province was Alberta,and the odds of killing a B&C whitetail were a bit better there.......just a "bit".

I would not be shocked to discover that the same numbers for mule deer are even lower,because there are fewer of them continent wide.Which means that the total number of mule deer bucks killed that score 190 or better comprise less than 1% of the total harvest of mule deer bucks killed continent wide.Someone like Drummond might know more about these numbers than I do, but I suspect I am not far off.

Point being, if a guy is serious about killing a 190 class mule deer,he might want to consider that he likely won't do it on a single hunt. If he gets very lucky, he may....but he should consider that he may have to invest 2,3,4, or more seasons in an area known to produce that class of buck.

Unfortunately,this does not square up very well if the unit he hunts is a special draw unit for which he may get a license only once every 3-5 or more years apart;places like some units in Utah, Colorado, Nevada,New Mexico, Wyoming,etc.

Personally, and if I were to go guided(you may have no other choice in some places),I would try to find a situation that (a) grew deer of that caliber, and (b) provided an opportunity for a license every year for (say) 2,.3, or 4 years.

Why the same place? Because I have found over the years that the longer you hunt the same place, the same area,the more you know about it...the more intimate you become with the game and its' habits and the greater the likelihood you will encounter the buck of a lifetime,so long as he lives there in the first place.Deer dynamics being what they are, a "hot" area may decline due to hard winters, predation, or other factors. I'd want to squeeze as much time into a really good area as I could while it lasts.

If a guy can afford eastern Colorado for 2-4 or 5 years,I think he will kill a buck of that caliber. They are certainly there. But it isn't the only place.

Half the equation is finding a deer of this caliber. The other half is actually killing him...that's not always the same thing.

Just my view of the matter.

That was as good of a summation as I've ever heard Bob. Very, very well done.

I didn't want to downplay contacting Drum. He knows his stuff. I also forgot about the mule deer promised land....the Jicarilla. You better have a pocket full of money tough.

JG as you likely know I was not downplaying Drummond at all because he seems to me to be one of those rare guides/outfitters who truly savvy's mule deer of that caliber.....and they are VERY FEW! Point being that a guy like Drummond likely books up...they all do, or competition for tags may be such that it's hard to draw or otherwise get a license.

A guy needs a game plan if a mule deer of this caliber is the objective,which means having 2-3 options to pursue.He should have more than one place to go.


I'm simply trying to underscore the difficulty of killing a buck of that caliber.

I personally know and have hunted with exactly three people who have killed a handful of bucks that gross 190" or better; I have "met" a couple or three more on the Internet,you and Pat Sinclair being among them.Huntsman on here has posted some toads. They all have one thing in common and that is that they live in the country they hunt and are very hardcore and diligent mule deer hunters.

For a traveling hunter,who lives far from great (not just "good") mule deer country,only gets a few days with a tag in his hand, and cannot spend a lot of time scouting,the task of killing even one is very difficult for obvious reasons,among them being that he likely can't distinguish between a 180 and a 190 class buck...he needs a real pro familiar with the nuances of judging them on the hoof....he will kill a 180 every time he sees one and well he should....a 180 is a very big mule deer.

As well it takes a lot of time and effort in good country just to see one.In 40 odd years of hunting some of the best areas in the US and Canada, I figure I have seen maybe 8-9 of them,alive.

In the past 10-12 years, I have seen two....both jumped in heavy cover at 50 yards and about 30 feet while still hunting. I killed neither one. I went into deep depression,knowing that I had "blown it" and hit the booze for weeks after...

Of course none of this means that a guy should not get out there and try for one.

The Jicarilla is, far as I know today,one of the best places in the lower 48 to kill a buck like this, unless things have changed. That country has been an historic producer for decades....if a guy can afford it that is.

Aaron Neilson 100% for anything big in Colorado

He is a bona-fide giant slayer

I think being fixated on score is the wrong approach. the score IMO doesn't really tell the story of how large the buck is. I have seen bucks that score off the charts and you would never dream they scored that well. I like bucks that look BIG, I like wide bucks but they typically score less.

Bob,

Both very good posts, and match my experience.

I killed some good mule deer bucks in my 20's, but wasn't really interested in score. For a while in my late 30's and 40's I became more interested in score, but not obsessive, partly because I quickly came to the conclusion that an older buck is always more interesting to hunt than a young one that may score better, however we measure score.

Have killed two bucks grossing over 190, and helped companions kill a couple others. Mine were taken in Montana and Sonora, but also saw at least one that easily would have qualified in Alberta--and could have easily killed him. Unfortunately, it was in one of those areas where hunting is only allowed three days of the week, so you can only "scout" the other four. Had him bedded down at 400 on a scouting day, and at 150 yards the next day, when the shooting season opened--but by then he was 150 yards outside my tag's area.

Most people haven't seen enough 190+ mule deer on the ground to really be sure of what that means. A 190 buck in Sonora looks very different than a 190 buck in Alberta, because Alberta bucks probably average twice as large in body, but not near as wide in the ears. But generally you DON'T get a lot of time to decide anyway.

Have even seen people who claimed to know mule deer look at a 23" wide 4x4 on the ground and say he was was 27". Have seen others look at a photo of a 200" buck and say it was no more than 160". One of the bucks on my wall is 27 inches wide, with "crab-claw" forks, but so heavy it takes a very jaded hunter to not say "wow."

Got him in Wyoming, and also have killed a couple of good bucks in Colorado, but am just as confident of finding one in Montana. Have seen a couple of other bucks that would go at least 190 here. One was on public land in the Missouri Breaks, two miles away just at dusk, and never found him again. Another was on a private ranch near the North Dakota border, and he was never seen again either--and not just by me but anybody else I knew in the area. Maybe he crossed the border.

Saw three bucks that would have gone at least 190 the one time I hunted Sonora. Two were killed, the one I got and another a companion killed after that, while I hunted with him. That friend had hunted Sonora NINE times previously without killing a "muy grande." The third was a buck I saw an hour before killing my big one, and was so similar they could have been twins. This is apparently unusual, according to the guy who finally got one on his 10th trip. (I am sometimes lucky, which definitely helps.)

I used to feel pretty confident of killing a good buck on public land in Montana, but these days the mule deer population in most areas is down due to bad winters and, in some areas, over-hunting. I wouldn't bet on even seeing a good buck on public land except in a very hard-to-hunt areas, and would suggest to anybody who really wants one that the odds are best in Sonora or Alberta.

I'd never say anything crazy like "it's not about the size" or something like that, because everybody likes to kill a nice big critter. But, if you do come to Colorado to chase a buck, make sure you enjoy the hell out of your hunt, take a lot of photos, be thankful you're not at work, and don't make it all about a number of inches. It seems like a ton of people are so hell bent on a number they have in their head that they forget to do the other things....

Tanner

John I have never been to Sonora but am aware of what's there in the right places. I have hunted Alberta several times and would like to go back because that's one of the places I have seen some of these top end bucks.

That guy who hunted Sonora 9 times before killing his buck underscores how hard it can be. That's dedication!

I can recall some very large mule deer seen where I hunt in Wyoming that folks saw but which then just vanished for a year or two....until they were spotted once again.They are very good at avoiding being seen even if they are living in the same general vicinity..

One advantage to going to Canada is that,as far as I know licenses are available through outfitters as opposed to a draw so if you get in a "rotation" with an outfitter,you can go every year, or as often as your pocket book can stand it.None of this mule deer hunting is cheap today,and some hunts cost as much as a good plains game hunt in Africa.

I had a lease over in Eastern Colorado with two other people for 3 years so have been in that country. It definitely is a great bet to kill a buck on this class.

Cumminscowboy brings up a good point about bucks that are "big" but fall through the cracks when it comes to score.Of course the scoring language is just a frame of reference so that we know what caliber of buck we are talking about;anything that approaches 190-200" of bone on his head is going to look stupendous and not easily forgotten once you see it,even if he does not "net" that high.

As the old saying goes......"nets" are for fish.

Great posts JB and cummins, and I couldn't agree more. I've had guys come to camp with a high number in their mind, in spite of having never killed anything over 150. When we showed them several bucks in the 180-185 class they about crapped their carhatt's. When we told them they what they were looking at they became uninterested........pathetic IMO.

JB got me thinking back a bit.....I'm addicted to matching wits with big mule deer bucks, I admit it. Except for my Sonoran buck, I have never killed the biggest bucks I've seen.

I once got invited on a guided mule deer hunt in Wyoming by another guy who had never killed a good mule deer before, but happened to work for a firm willing to pay for both him and me.

It was the other guy's first guided hunt, and he somehow figured that $3500 (which isn't all that much for such a hunt) meant he would be looking over several huge bucks, and taking his pick. I'd taken some good bucks before so told him he could have the right of first refusal. Barely into shooting light we saw a buck that I would have taken. The antlers were probably 27" wide and almost as high, with long tines and fair mass, and even had decent brow tines for a mule deer. The only flaw (if you could call it that) was one of the back "forks" didn't fork, but instead was a single tine probably 18" long.

If it had been my choice, I'd have started a stalk right then, but despite both me and guide (a guy in his late 50's who'd been around quite a few mule deer) saying what a good buck it was, my partner didn't even respond. Instead he looked bored.

We hunted for another day and a half, and didn't see any larger bucks, at which point my partner decided he had stuff to do back home, so after lunch got in his pickup and headed out. That afternoon I got lucky and killed a buck of about the same size as the one he'd passed, though with all the usual forks.

I found out a couple years later from the outfitter that the other guy came back the next year, and his guide put him within 200 yards of another big buck. This time the guy decided to shoot, but it turned out he'd sighted-in his rifle with very different ammo than the stuff he had in his pockets. He started searching for even one round of the "correct" ammo, and the buck eventually got bored and left. They never saw it again.

I suspect he thinks "expensive" mule deer hunts are a ripoff.

I have hunted some of the best big buck territory in this country, both on my own an with guides. I'm still looking to break the 190" mark. I hunted the Deseret Ranch in Utah for years and saw some good bucks, but never pulled the trigger on one. Part of my problem is I haven't been able stay off the trigger, until recently that is. So maybe it'll happen. At age 72 it better happen soon The good news is I'm am hunting a great area and getting to know it well. God, I do love to hunt!

John,

I was helping on a guided hunt one year, kinda doing horse wrangler stuff.

Anyway, we were DEEP, about as deep in the wilderness as you can get in Oregon ... the very headwaters of the Imnaha River.

On opening day, we were barely out of camp and going by the side of a large glade when I spotted a really nice mule across the open space. We got the horse string stopped and had a pow-wow. "Who wanted to stalk and kill the buck?"

Turned out none of our guys wanted to tag-out in the first half-hour of a $4000 hunt and none of the guys thought it was "decent."

My friend, the outfitter said, "Sh1t, he looks damned 'decent' to me, in fact, that's maybe the best deer you'll see all week."

They still passed.

The outfitter looked at me and asked, "Steve, do you want that deer?" And I allowed as how I did.

He said, "Give us twenty minutes ... that will get us by the opening an up on the next ridge. Then stalk him and kill him if you can."

By the time twenty minutes was up, the buck had climbed a point and was laying in a small north. It took maybe an hour to use the wind and the lay of the land and get over him.

Then I got a good look at him ... Holy Crap, he was just one hell of a buck ... one I'd tale any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The shot was maybe 75 yards and slightly downhill. He was almost asleep and kinda doin' that rocking thing with his head ... I placed the bullet just under his skull. He just rolled over in his bed and joined eternity.

No kicks, just dead.

He was just a clean heavy 4X4 with four-inch eyeguards and lots of gorgeous pearling on the bases and way up the main beam. Width was 28-inches and height was 28-inches. Just one hell of a heavy and gorgeous mule deer.

And what did the paid hunters kill? We worked our asses off for a full seven days and they didn't kill a single deer. One of the six guys managed to wound a forked-horn on the 17-mile ride out. We never got the forked horn.

Mule deer, good mule deer, are never a given. Like big bears, they show up when you least expect them and you'd better be willing to take the big one on the first day ... or the last ... or any damned time.

Blessings,

Steve

LOVE the stories.....great stuff men.

A few weeks ago I witnessed a Canadian pay $390,000 to hunt mule deer in Utah, and $320,000 to do the same in Arizona..

Thread has derailed as the OP is looking to burn his points in Colorado,and I did give him my .02 on that via PM.

But of all the places,if I had a choice would be here, and I'd have a great time doing it..Henry mountains.



I've spent a good amount of time there, and it is unlike anything I've ever seen.

Having grown up in Colorado and been able to hike around the high country a little bit and look over quite a few mule deer, I think I can count the number of 190"+ mulies I've seen on one hand (definitely takes less than two hands). I was lucky enough to be able to kill one of them last year, but I'm not foolish enough to think it's a sure thing year after year.

And there's no way I get anywhere in the vicinity of that buck I killed last year without the help of a good buddy. It's just as much his deer as it is mine.

Love the stories, gents.

Awesome picture Rosco, have always been interested in the Henrys.

Pic was poached from the net..If you get the chance to look around there you wont be disappointed.The buffalo can be ornery sometimes tho, and you will see them clear up on the tops. Friend of mine killed one at over 10k a few years back.

August is a great time to look for big bucks while they are still in the "red" and hang out above treeline.

Late summertime is definitely my favorite time to scout them.

Steve,

HA! Yep, you take 'em when you see 'em--if you can.

My biggest buck ever was a 6x6. He had an extra fork on both sides, because the front tine on the back fork also forked--and both antlers match perfectly. He was also the very first legal big game animal I saw on opening day of the 1992 Montana big game season. Hadn't punched a deer tag in Montana during the previous five years, while looking for a really exceptional buck.

This buck was up at timberline on the Rocky Mountain Front, and I hesitated a little, partly because after going that long without pulling the trigger you want to make sure, and partly because (as it turned out) his body was so huge the antlers didn't look as big as they were. But once he was on the ground and I walked up to him, the size of both was obvious.

In fact he turned out to be as big a a 2-1/2-year-old cow elk Eileen killed a couple of weeks later. Have only taken one other mule deer with a body that big since, but that was up in Alberta, where as you know they're ALL big-bodied.

My very best to you and Karen. Was really glad to hear the good news!

Great thread gentlemen. Hopefully the OP got his question answered, because the rest of us have been the beneficiaries of about 200 years of exceptional mule deer hunting experience. I didn't hunt much as a youth and really started after I had joined the Air Force and was out on my own. But at that time, I had a young family and other obligations.

Luckily, I spent about 13 years of that Air Force time in Alaska and it was like they turned me loose in a candy store. When I moved back to the lower 48, work again took up too much of my time. At age 54, I'm trying to turn the tables a bit and spend more time in the field.

My many thanks to you all for the contributions to this and the many other great threads!

Are you a resident or non resident? You have quite a few options either way but if you're a resident you are sitting pretty darn good.

PM sent

I am a nonresident. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

I apply to almost all the western states every year for deer and other trophies, around 30 applications yearly. I have been lucky enough to draw sheep tags in Wyoming (Rocky Mnt) and Nevada (desert), and as a result I am a Grand Slammer. I also have my North American 28.

My one time that I hunted Sonora, I was with a party of 6 hunters that saw NO bucks whatsoever, even though we were hunting a ranch that had "never been hunted before". The outfitter there still hangs around SCI, etc, but his reputation is getting tarnished. A return trip to Sonora is on my bucket list.

I've hunted the Paunsagunt twice, taking one good buck, but I don't have enough Utah points to get drawn in the Henry Mnts.

I am not obsessed with score, especially net, but I am only interested in hunts that offer a decent chance for a truly big buck, so I mentioned 190-class simply to clarify my desires. I know such bucks are trophies of a lifetime, and don't exist behind every aspen trunk. I am lucky enough to have taken 2 bucks in this class, one just above 190 and one just below.

And since I have been accruing points in Colorado and now have 17, I believe I'm getting close to drawing into a great unit. I don't want to squander those points on a middlin' hunt.

Thanks for all the replies, and I'm still open to ideas this year, or perhaps next year when season dates are more favorable.

Good luck man I wish you the best. Sounds like you're a man who knows what he wants and goes for it; I respect that.

Your question spurred some great storytelling from some of the elder statesmen of the site which was great for me even if it didn't get your questions answered .

Seriously I hope you document the trip well and post up pics. Best of luck to you!

My first thought was Todd Rice but Todd hunts areas where the densities are high so you should have at least seen some small bucks so that leaves me thinking that it has to be an area with low densities and a shady outfitter so I'm going to guess Carlos Hermosillo either on the coastal range or way north?

Bingo! The ranch was near the town of Altar.

The biggest mule deer that I've ever seen was being "shoo'd" out of a flower garden by a woman living on the high golf course at Cordillera, south of Edwards.

Edwards where? Sheesh.

Sorry, Edwards, Colorado, is about 10 miles west of Vail on I-80.

Cordillera is a golf course community with three courses. The buck in question was up at on the top course, off a street called Summit Trail. The lady was chasing it with a garden rake.

I-70, not I-80.... Good luck hunting there..... or playing golf.

Tanner

When I lived up in Evergreen Meadows, west of Denver, I used to just about bust a gut laughing at the sight of the little old lady next door, in her night gown and slippers, chasing elk out of her garden with her broom. It's a wonder that she never got kicked or run over!

Yes, I-70, not I-80. All you have to do to play golf there is to buy a house. I don't think that they allow any hunting on the Cordillera property, but there are some interesting elk and deer there.