I can't decide.....Hornady 139 SP or Barnes 140 TTSX? Both shoot great in my rifle. Another bullet perhaps? Partitions and Accubonds are like hen's teeth up here so don't even go there.

Anybody have real life experience with either on moose or a big elk?

Either would work. I like the 140 TTSX if you drive it keep it close range (under 250) and drive it ~2800 fps. Otherwise, I'd stick that Hornady through the lungs.

Without question, 140gr TTSX. This bullets digs and digs and digs.

I'd use the TTSX in that scenario.

I reload and have had good results accuracy-wise with both 145 grain Speer Grand Slams and Speer Boat Tails. Although the Boat Tails are a bit more accurate, I understand that the Grand Slams is a tougher bullet. Since I hunt deer, hogs and elk, I will probably go with the Grand Slams. There are a host of powders that work well in the 7mm-08 which makes load development interesting.

The 140 TTSX, no question. (The 140 XFB worked on moose and many caribou back in the day…never recovered one either.)

While I have shot quite a few moose 'in the slats' (where the 139 would work just fine), I have also had a good percentage of kills involving shots where that bullet would have meant problems if it had been used. 140 is as light as I care to run for moose in the 7mm caliber, and then, only with a mono of some flavor. I would actually prefer 10 or 20 grains more, and especially the latter weights when using a Partition.

150 Ballistic Tip worked well on a fully mature bull elk for me this past year. I think bull elk are a bit tougher than bull moose.

My first choice for the 7-08 would be a 140 Accubond or Partition.

My choice of the 150 Ballistic Tip was strictly based on accuracy, but knowing full well its construction was up to any task I had.

I'm not a mono fan...

Elk may be less inclined to lie down where you want them to, but they surely aren't as resistive to bullets as moose can be. Accuracy need not be a primary factor in choosing a load for animals the size of moose.

I've been in on the killing of AK moose. Didn't strike me as especially hard to kill. Certainly no different than elk, and perhaps a bit "softer."

My shots on elk can come out past 500 yards, so accuracy always interests me.

120 or 140 TTSX.

Why not? Bad experience?

Yup, three different occasions.

I'm done.

I forget? TSX or TTSX?

At least they are dead. You kill some great Bulls Brad!

Can't Imagine a light for cal TTSX not being wicked as [bleep]..

This TTSX:



Did okay on this guy:

Not sure exactly where you are in Manitoba but Saskatchewan it is easy enough to find 7mm partitions and accubonds that it may be worth a road trip. Of course either of the two bullets mentioned will get the job done with due care and careful placement. I personally like slightly lighter X bullets like the 120 for 7mm.

I said nothing about hard to kill. Moose are hard on bullets. The majority of moose I've killed have stopped bullets; everything including Core-lokts, Hot-Cors, GameKings, Partitions, FailSafes, Ballistic Tips, XFBs, Uni-Cors, Grand Slams, TSXs, Weldcores, Interlocks, A-Frames… I have them. Doesn't matter whether they are shot with 6.5x55, 7mm-08, 30-30, 30-06, 340 Wtby, 358 Norma, 375, 45-70, moose don't have any trouble stopping stuff. The 139 Interlock is an ideal caribou bullet in the 7mm-08. Perhaps it's fine for elk; I can't say one way or another. I certainly wouldn't suggest it as a good choice for hunting moose. Monos have lost their luster with me as well, but the TTSX is easily the better choice of the two the OP inquires about. I think the tip has certainly helped it overcome the most serious problems it previously had sometimes.

Had a TTSX fail to open, as well as the original Barnes and Failsafes.

Good news is it's a free country and all are welcome to use what they wish... unless of course you live in CA.

I think your point about "hard on bullets, not hard to kill" is a good one and agree, I'd rather use the TTSX over the 139 Hdy.

But he also asked about the Partition or Accubond, and those are what I'd use (and do use) over either the Barnes or Hdy. And I can't imagine whatever works well for elk wouldn't work similarly on mooose.

More about moose stopping bullets my buddy shot a spike fork with a 375 RUM using a 270gr tsx at about 100yds recovered the bullet on the off shoulder. My buddy shot a big ol bull with a 338 win mag using 250gr cor lockt no exit I hit same bull with a 200gr accubond out my 325 wsm no exit and another buddy hit it with a 300 RUM 180gr accubond no exit either. Moose can soak up a lot lead. With my daughter 7-08 I load 120gr tsx and my wife 7-08 I use a 139gr hornady GMX.

Partitions are my preference these days, but…





180 Woodleigh, 30-06, centered on near side shoulder at less than 40 yards; it caught the far side blade as well - in the thinner edges; stopped just beyond in muscle.



250 Swift A-Frame, 2700 fps, 358 Norma, approx 200 yards, small bull moose; centered onside shoulder blade, stopped inside chest cavity (lungs).

I've pulled 850 grains of 340 Weatherby lead out of a single bull, broadside at around 200 yards, including a Grand Slam and three intact, expanded NBTs. None hit big bones.

Moose are good-bullet-worthy obstacles.

I should add that big bull my buddy shot was 200yds on the first shot. Man that was a big ol bull fell over dead in a depression what SOB it was to get him quartered out. First moose I gutted like a deer buddy wanted to do a shoulder mount talk about a pain in the ass. Rolled the guts his insides were jello from the bullets no real meat loss. Looked like I just slaughtered a family after I was done.

A friend of my mine homesteaded in Alaska, and he shot all his moose with a 7mm-08 and the 140 gr Nosler Partition Federal Load! He would get his moose every year usually with just one shot! He told me once that its the best combo going for the task! Then again he could shoot and he was adept at not having to shoot to far either!

I've never hunted moose and sold my 7mm-08 so maybe I don't have a dog in this hunt but what about a 175 gr Hornady? A quick look at Hodgdon's reloading data shows 2500 fps ought to be obtainable and that combo should provide meat on the ground.

Dale

Or just use a good ol 150gr Nosler partition if one watches nosler website they can pick up seconds for a fair price.

150 or 160 Partition would be my choice.

The 160 gr Partition would be my choice

Must have been using a slow twist....



David

150 TTSX in a 1-12" 308 Win... that combo must surely fall somewhere in the "ideal" category.

Certainly ideal for such mundane tasks as bullet stabilization, but not for the shock and awe effect of "fast twist kills better". I think 8" twist is the min for better killing through fast twist, but don't remember for sure - the answers are in the archives of the 'fire...

David

Undoubtedly...

But my particular 150 TTSX never opened so I was unable to verify if twist had any significant effect on killing.

Stick a 140 Partition in the ribs/lungs. He'll die.

Ballistic tips blow up on the surface of Mighty Blacktail deer! Unexpanded TTSX with a dead critter truimps surface blow up...

Trust me I know.

130TTSX in the .308
150's in the -06
165 and up in 300mags

Or just use a Partition! lol

I have never shot an elk or a moose but in 2013 I killed a 350# WT in Alberta with a 7-08 & 140 TSX at almost 200 yds, he dropped in his tracks. This load was not a hot load by any means (47 gr of H-380) but is very accurate in my gun. I am a fan of bullet placement over big holes anywhere!!! I don't remember the limits but a 150 TSX in a 7-08 at 2800+/- fps should do the trick.

Nosler was unwilling or unable to ship to an individual in Canada at least not from their seconds shop.

120 or 140 TTSX. they work better when going faster

I killed a mature 3x3 Blacktail with a 120 grain NBT out of my 7mm-08. Pass through, DRT.



P

139 Hornady would be my first choice.

Nosler Partition would work very well also, I don't think you need it with the velocity produced by the 7mm-08.

Perhaps I'm a poor hunter compared to others. I know Mule Deer has written about dropping a moose with his 7x57 and 139 Hornady for instance.

I tend to use larger cartridges than was strictly is needed because I worry about not getting side shots that allow me to place the bullet where it can get to the vitals.

So I would prefer a larger cartridge in case capacity and bullet diameter. But that is not what you were asking. So, again I think the 139 Grain Hornady would be my first choice with the 7mm-08.

I've owned a 7x57 (ballistic twin) since the 60's and recently bought a 7mm-08 for my wife. I've never had to take a second shot when using the 7x57 and 139 Hornady combo.

Pick one, I have killed enough critters with Hornady's and mono's to figure out they work.

If I am going to spend money on premiums, it is certainly not going to be on AB's, Interbonds, etc.

limited experience here, but the last two moose I've killed fell to 7mm 08 throwing the 120 tsx


both one shot kills

though one of them was close enough might have perhaps killed it with a slingshot

If Partitions become available let me know, I have a good load for a 7mm-08.






P

I'm pretty sure he shot the moose with a 160grn Northfork, unless there were more than one that he's shot with a 7X57.

A TIC understatement without a doubt…which sure beats guessing as so many seem to do on threads such as this.

It always amazes me how many people will get on a thread and opine based on no experience, very thin experience, uninformed extrapolation, or hearsay/theysay. It almost makes me want to just say, "use a 22 mag" since "I know a friend who did it", or "use a Ruger MK 1 22 pistol" since "I know another guy who 'I've heard' did it". And, of course, I've seen them die by 223 before Barnes even made 22 caliber X bullets.

Just go to Africa and tip a few Cape Buff over with your 300 mag and Core-lokts and be done with it already.

A light cup and core is a good bullet; it just isn't a good bullet for animals with the mass and bone structure of a moose. That's not saying it can't work, but why recommend a 'tool' which is so limiting? Killing them should be the easy part…so you can get to work on the hard part. Making the 'easy part' more challenging just before you take on the hard work just doesn't make any sense to me.

I vote 160gr Partition @ 2750. powdr

I know enough guys that have killed moose with traditional archery equipment, I myself I have done it. Hope to get it done this year again.

There is no fricken way either of the above bullets will not work, unless they are improperly placed.

I have killed a truck load of big game with the 7-08 including quite a few elk. My go-to bullet is the 154 Hornady spire point interlock. It is cheap, accurate and very effective. It is a very dependable bullet and will certainly penetrate adequately from a 7-08. I also had good luck with the 150 Partition but no better than the Hornady at half the price.

Unlike many posting responses here about shooting deer and other even hypothesizing, I have killed big bull elk with this load and have used this rifle as the elk hunting loaner rifle where it has taken even more. No complaints at all.

250 Grand Slam, 340 Wtby, 3000 fps muzzle, <200 yards: both shoulders/ no major bones.

225 XFB, 340 Wtby, 2850 fps muzzle, <200 yards; both shoulders, major bones both side.

170 Core-lokt, 30-30 Win, 2100 fps muzzle, <90 yards: shoulder muscles.

160 Fail-Safe, 7mm-08, 2500 fps, Est 275 yards: high shoulder/neck; stopped against vertebra.

200 NBT, 340 Wtby, 3000 fps muzzle, <200 yards: near shoulder muscles; stopped in offside ribs (along with two more just like it.)

All of these animals (mature bull moose) presented near perfectly classic broadsides.

Your post suggests that the 7mm-08 is an adequate choice.





P

Can someone explain to me the actual science of twist affecting "killing power". I've never heard of this before. Sounds fishy.

For stabilization/accuracy of the bullet yes. Speed and bullet weight for killing yes. But twist????

Adequate? Absolutely! It also might suggest that moose can readily absorb a pretty good punch and are deserving of tough bullets, especially in a lighter caliber like the little 7.

(The XFB tipped the animal over on impact since it broke big bones in both shoulders which obviously took his pins out. The rest of the bullets were each one of three or four bullets that the respective animals took while on their feet.)

Only that the denser the medium (in most cases, sea level air vs mountain air) the more stabilizing that is required. I don't think you can spin it fast enough to make it track perfect in meat. Some claim there is a "buzz-saw effect". I have no opinion on that one.

Ah, so many moose droppings here.....it's hard to keep track of them.

Thanks guys. Nice discussion. I suppose I was more interested in opinions on the Hornady. I just scored a sweet deal on a couple hundred and they shoot so nice I was just wondering how'd they do on a moose. I already have a great sub moa 140 TTSX load @ 2860 fps but those spire points shoot just as good. I'm a big Barnes fan though and IMHO the 3rd post on this thread pretty much sums it up.

Finally caught a TTSX in last year's moose....

Love that field photo, and nice looking moose. If I wasn't so attached to B.C. I would move to Manitoba, my sister lives there and I have really enjoyed my visits there.

I'm not sure there is any actual science to it. Some folks running fast twist rates have noted that the rifles achieve more "dead right there" killin compared to rifles with slow twist. The most commonly held belief seems to be that the faster rotational speeds help expanding bullets to open faster and/or more reliably. The phenomenon has been commonly noted in two different scenarios:

1) Moderate power varmint rifles exploding prairie dog (and similar) varmints as effectively as higher power rifles in same caliber. Commonly stated that a fast twist 223 will explode prairie dogs like a 22-250.

2) Reliable expansion of mono metal bullets (like the Barnes) some times achieving the DRT effect of lightly built cup and core bullets. This would seemingly be the best of both worlds - cup and core style shock and awe combined with mono-metal penetration.

Cannot vouch for either. It's one of those things that's impossible to prove, so it needs to be argued about....

David

Las,

Google centrifugal force, and think about how that would apply to an expanding bullet as it penetrates through flesh, both in terms of expansion and fragmentation, and think of the additional damage that would cause in flesh.

This will likely get me into trouble (again

Bill Steigers of Bitterroot bullets did the fast twist testing years ago. For the times, his bullets were ahead of the curve in construction and very tough. Friends/customers did some of the testing with him,and of course they also shot a pile of them into animals.I have had a zillion conversations with Steigers on the subject.

Steigers proved to himself that a faster twist helps to expand tough,high velocity hunting bullets. It's a long leap from that to "increased killing power".But to the extent that more rapid and complete expansion creates a more severe wound channel I suppose the conclusion is not that far fetched,especially since we lose velocity with distance but rotational velocity remains pretty high.

In any event, Steigers bullets came with recommendation on the packaging for minimum velocity,and [b twist levels.[/b] Since Bitterroots were sort of a landmark bullet,and one of those responsible for flushing most of todays better known bonded bullets out of the bushes, I'd find his advice hard to ignore.

In any event, anyone who knows him will tell you that he knows a lot about BG bullets,and not theoretically either.

Anyhow, like someone said the "faster killing" may be hard to prove. I can tell you I have a couple of recovered 140 BBC's here recovered from game. Retained weight is about the same,one fired from a 280 with a 10 twist and the other from a 7 RM with a 9 twist....distances similar. Hold them both in your hand, and it isn't hard to tell which hit with more RPM's.

One old pundit said it better than I can,(and referring to the extreme example of a 110 gr. fired from a 300 Weatherby at 3900 fps). RPM's, he says, are 4550 times per second from a 10 twist (do your own math).....I edited the content for brevity but the gist is there:

"....cetrifugal energy...pulls the outer part of any rotating object away from its center,the axis it spins on........The centrifugal energy developed in our bullet rotating 4550 times a second is enormous. It would take about 2.5 minutes for an ordinary shop grinder to make as many revolutions as it does in a second. Every molecule in it is imbued with intense ambition to break loose and fly sideways. If it hits anything,that is exactly what it does..."

Turn your self over 3000-4000 times per second, your brains will fly out your ears.

Ever see a bullet destroy itself in mid air? What do we suppose does that? It isn't forward velocity (Hint)

Folks are right....we can argue about it, but you have to be a flat earther or carping skeptic to say it has no effect on bullet expansion at all.


Think about it.

Bob
All true.
I used to blow bullets up with the .460 that were designed for the .45/70.

The 400gn Speer with the paper thin jacket would often disappear in a puf of blue smoke before reaching to 100 yard target when driven at 2900fps.
John

John:

A friends brother used to load 90 gr HP's in a 264 Win Mag.drive them at max just for the purpose of letting us watch them disappear in a blue haze before they made it to the 100 yard target.

The rifling scored the thin jackets and all those rpm's just did the rest.Fun to watch.

I also understand that the target Bergers have tougher jackets than the hunting versions so they will withstand the high rotational forces of fast twists on rifles for LR shooting. Seems some versions would not make it to the target.

I think the same thing can happen to one extent or another (depending on the bullets construction) when an expanding bullet's jacket is compromised on impact with an animal.

I agree. Saw similar things happen when Barnes first introduced that zippy little 100gn X bullet in .270 about 20 or so years back. Introduced a new concept in entrance holes.
John

Partition-and be done with it !

I'll bet that was an awesome blue haze to behold…400 grains of shmokin'!

We don't have ground hogs and weren't allowed to shoot the 'roos's off the range so made our own entertainment.
John

That must be your varminting load, huh? Getting her tuned up for the PD shoot?

I can't speak to dinky bullets for deer that are the size and weight of a Yugo. I can't speak to that Speer 400 grain at 2900, other than OUCH! I have seen enough of the twist-rate and rotational velocity phenomenon that I've come to accept that it has an evidentiary basis in fact, and is part of the bullet performance "equation". And I've seen the aftermath of a grinder wheel that gave way. Like a bomb went off.

My varmint load was the 300gn Hornady loaded to 3,000fps. Smashed bones like a sack of nuts and bolts and DRT was usual.

That 300 Hornady was designed for the magnum 45 cals, was it not? A lighter bullet option for thin-skinned game? Edited to add: I think I'm thinking of the 350...

Yes you are. The 300gn was a flat tipped hollow point. Although not designed for the magnum cases or velocities, it is still a felatively large chunk of bullet to absorb.