Does any one know anything about these muzzle brakes? Has any one ever used one of these "quiet muzzle brakes" and is there a noise reduction?

www.gentrycustom.com/

Bill

There is no such thing as a quiet muzzle brake.......I don't care who makes it.

I had one installed on one of my 7mags back in '96 IIRC. I was crossing a snow covered clearcut in Idaho when a nice whitetail buck broke out across at about 300yds, spooked by a passing hunting rig going down a logging road. I pulled off a hail mary shot and was greeted with one of the loudest ear piercing ka-booms I've ever heard. Grabbed my ears in disgust and was even more disgusted when I learned I missed the buck. My ears rang for a couple days after that. I sold that rifle a year later, it sold quickly at a gunshow cause it looked kinda cool with that Gentry brake I guess.

MtnHtr

Bill,

Welcome to the Fire! I think you will find most folks here very friendly and helpful!

I sure would love it if this brake was indeed quiet, but I am not sure how that is possible. Of course, I am not sure how the internet is possible, but I am on it writing to you, so maybe muzzle brake technology has made a jump I don't understand. I hope so - maybe someone more savvy will jump in.

DJ

Or maybe not, in light of Mtn Hunter's experience. Guess he and I were posting at the same time.

David is just outside of Bozeman Montana, If you are any where near there go over and talk to him ask him for a demonstration. I haven't tried that but I do know he is a hell of a custom gun smith. He has 3 CMC machines and produces a lot of stuff that Brownells sells. But I have never heard of a quiet muzzle brake and sure have'nt seen one

the only truely quiet muzzle brake (other than silencers/suppressors which also act as brakes) I have ever even hear of was manufactured by an outfit called american safe arms. The way they did it was fitted an oversized sleeve about the size of a 10 gauge barrel around a lightweight barrel and vented the gasses into the sleeve. they ended up in trouble with the atf for a little while cause the atf decided they were building silencers not muzzle brakes. As the story goes browning was interested in the technology and loaned them their legal staff. They reached an agreement with the atf that they would tune their brakes to lower the overall noise no more than 4 or 5 decibles and the atf would classify them as brakes. It wasn't too long after this that they seem to have dissapeared. i have often thought that would have been the brake to have. All this is just going on memory so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks DJ. I have never heard of a quiet muzzle brake either that's why I was asking. I would be curious to what dB level he is calling quiet compared to the other muzzle brakes.

Bill

I would view any claim of a quiet brake with a raised eyebrow. Unless the company will stand behind it and state how much lower the decibel rating is with the brake they are most likely blowing smoke.

I have quite a few rifles with brakes, Gentry brake, like the Vais brake directs the blast away from the face of the shooter. I have a Dalsk (sp) that does the same thing. I have a couple of other brands that will replaced with one of brakes that direct the blast away for me, as the shooter. All of them are loud if you stand beside them. I also remember a brake that lowered the muzzle blast by 30 to 35 db, but it went the way of the ATF, because it was classified as a silencer.
Take care!
Marcus.

I cannot speak for the Gentry brake but I have noticed that some brakes are quieter than others. All are louder than an unbraked rifle. IMO the Vais, is quieter than a KDF.

I don't know about Gentry's unit, but I have seen some measured Sound Pressure Level data for the BP Tec that showed it was not louder. They have some theory of operation on their website.

http://www.bp-tec.com/

They can also tune their unit in that you can choose how the recoil moves your rifle (straight in line with bore, etc.).

I have not tried one of these, but I would like to hear if anyone does. I know that theory and practrice are different, experience tells you how much. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jim

I heard a story about a similar or perhaps identical system. The developer had worked on a solution to allow his young daughter to shoot a regular hunting bullet and load. Sure enough he got into a conflict with the ATF...

I do not know what happened to them after that.

By the way I think that forbidding a degree of silencing on hunting guns is a shamelful administrative idiocy which is driving many hunters to deafness. A similar attitude at the workplace would lead the business owner to pay compensations to his workers and fines to the authorities.

Why do we hunters accept such stupid laws and regulations when they hurt our health ???

I know these aren't after-market, but maybe one of the after market manufacturers has something similiar....

Savage has designed a Muzzlebrake that can be rotated open and closed. Shoot it open when running a lot of rounds through it at the range....when hunting, close it.

The Browning BOSS system now has a CR attachment. CR stands for convention recoil and the muzzle blast/sound is also conventional.

That's very interesting. I wonder how long it will take for others gun makers who offer muzzle brakes to follow? Or an aftermarket muzzle brake to come along that will fit other guns besides Browning?

I have a .338 WM in a M700 Remington with a factory muzzle brake. Tried removing the brake for a couple of shots and found a) the recoil was more than I wanted to contend with, and b) the bullets didn't have the same impact point.
I believe Remington has an attachment for the barrel intended to protect the threads when the brake is removed. My gun did not have this attachment so I don't know if the point of impact would have been unchanged if there had been an attachment i.e. the weight of the attachment would have been similar to the weight of the brake.
What has been the experience of others with changing points of impact when a muzzle brake is either removed or covered?

You have a great question Jim and for those who have a gun with a MB....I would love to hear your responses.

If a MB is twisted off or covered up....does it change the ballistic performance?

The BP bunch came onto Accurate Reloading touting their muzzle brake and how it doesn't increase the sound (or sound pressure). They started getting real evasive when they were pinned down on how their brake didn't increase the "level of sound" to the shooter. They finally drifted back into the shadows not to be heard from again.

To each his own, but I don't see why anyone uses a muzzle brake while hunting. I've never felt the recoil while shooting at the animal. This is from my 458 Lott on down. I most certainly have felt the recoil at the range. There I'll use a sissy pad and plenty of hearing protection.

The range where I shoot has a metal cover over the benches as do many ranges. The raport of the rifle is a darn sight louder to the shooter than shooting from an uncovered bench. None of my rifles are wearing muzzle brakes. It was my understanding from the BP bunch that the sound pressure wasn't increased, but why the heck was it louder to the shooter? This was when their story started to unravel.

Don't tell me that in this big audience no one has experimented with guns having muzzle brakes i.e. determining the effect of removing or covering up the vent holes? Personally when there is rainy or snowy weather I wrap the muzzle brake and end of the muzzle with electricians tape to prevent water from getting into the barrel. The tape blows clear when the rifle is fired but it has no effect on the point of impact, at least on my rifle.

If you live in a state where they are not restricted why not put a suppressor on it. They reduce both recoil and noise. I have no idea what they would do to accuracy.

DT

It's funy to read all of these posts about the brakes and the pros and cons.

I have no automatic hatred of them but I don't like when I have hunters shooting them for several weeks in a row with me. I can plug my ears from time to time but the truth is quite often I have to look through my glasses to watch the shot. I need to see impact and reaction to improve my locating the game.

I have known two fellas percsonally with braked rifles that had the thread protector. On paper it sounded good but in practice the POI was over an inch different at 100 meters. that was ofcourse carried out the further the shot was. Even with earplugs in and head phones on those rifles were by a large margin much louder then an unbraked rifle. I got to the point of moving a long way off and behind when he would shoot. It was very unpleasant to be around, even in the desert much less a somewhat enclosed rifle range.

I remember one instance from last season very clearly We were squated down looking over game for the best animal. We were about 80 yards from the herd but with the thick bush it was hard to see all the animals to be sure of the best trophy. There were about 40 animals but we could only ever see 10 or so at one time.

We finally settled on the one we wanted and watched for the right chance to shoot. I was squatted down sitting on my heels with both hands holding my leica's to be sure of a good hit. I was about 12 feet from the hunter and even with him.

When the bull turned sideways, broadside at under 75 yards the hunter took the shot. I never saw what happened even with my solid hold and good position. The sand and dust that blew into the air, and the blast from that brake actully pushed my balance point backward and I fell back breaking my fall with one arm. There was dust and sand in my shirt, mouth, ears, hair, and my hat blew off!

The hunter was just fine aside from not seeing any part of the impact with the blown up dust. The crap that blew into the air was to his sides and not back towards him. My ears were ringing for days after that, and I was beginning to worry it was permanent. It was especially bad when I was trying to fall asleep at night. That constant buzz was driving me crazy in the still of the night. It's events like this that form my opinions on these muzzle blast enhancers.

They have a place on a gun used by a fella with bursitis or tendonities of the shoulder. Maybe some other injury or problem. Better to have a braked rifle then to never be able to hunt again. Its like a disability feature for hunters like close parking at the store, or ramps built into the cross walk curbs.

I guess I don't see the brake as a needed item for a healthy guy that can still use a rifle without one. Not any more then using the handicapped parking or using a wheel chair when I could walk.

I have no problems taking hunter with a brake. I now know to prepare for the shot a bit better. When ever possible I will stand right behind him. Although not always possible in the heat of the moment. I also don't use my glasses but plug my ears which is a risk in mot seeing the reaction to the shot as well. The price you pay for reduced recoil!

JJ, have you ever tried those moulded ear plugs with the automatic dampening valve. I have talked to guys that have them and they swear by them. They're not cheap, but since they're custom moulded to your ear they're comfy.

Even if a guy put them in a few moments before a shot was anticipated, they would still let you hear clearly up until they closed at the "BLAST".

I'll have to remember the "Muzzle Brake"/"Wheel Chair Access" comparison. The range is one thing, but out in the field muzzle brakes are about as much fun as lead boots.

RO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JJ - In my case the thing to keep in mind is that I am always alone when I fire my braked rifle in the field. I will never be going to Africa or on a guided hunt where it would be necessary for me to shoot near another person.
While at the range I either get off by myself or warn others who might try to use the bench immediately beside me. I do try to show regard for others at the range.
Also, in my case, years ago I developed a bad case of pinched nerves in my neck to the extent I couldn't work for 2 months. The person who was treating (and who was a shooter himself by the way) warned me I might have to quit shooting. You can guess my response to that!
Fortunately the doctoring worked and my neck problem has not returned. Since I wanted to try a heavier caliber rifle for moose hunting the only answer was to try the brake.
They aren't necessarily the answer for everybody but they work for me.
Given your line of work I can understand why they aren't your favourite accessory. Jim.

I have one on a .300WSM and a buddy has another brand on his .300 WSM. The Gentry is MUCH quieter. Your perception may differ.

I've tried them all, and there's not one that remains in my safe. I've got a screaming left ear since the first unprotected shot from a braked rifle back in 1996. No thanks to them all for me. If the recoil is too much then shoot something with less recoil. Hearing aids run from $600 to $2500 apiece, and insurance doesn't cover them (except for some GMC policies....note their financial health!), and once the tinnitis stays for about a month, you might as well learn to live with it, because it ain't going away. Tread carefully with the braked rifle, NEVER touch one off unless you and every one around you is protected.
Don
PS have you ever seen one of the brake manufacturers claims independantly verified with actual data? I haven't!

Gentry's brake has the vents angled SLIGHTLY away from the shooter. This makes a little difference but not much (and has been tested). Some other brakes have the same feature.

That said, there isn't much that can be done with a conventional muzzle brake to make it a heck of a lot quieter, though some are definitely louder than others.he loudest I have ever experienced was the original brake on the Browning BOSS. Man, that sucker would blow out a stone monkey's ears, even if they were plugged and muffed.

A number of years ago, Gentry designed a thin covering for his brake. This allowed the inital gas to escape normally, but then it was re-directed toward the muzzle. He brought it up to my place to test it one day. It was a LOT quieter--but didn't reduce recoil much! Which is probably the reason he never brought it out.

MD

I just had a Gentry Quiet Brake installed on my Interarms Mark X 30.06. WOW, what a difference! It cut the recoil in half atleast, and I don't think it sounds any louder.
I am impressed!