Apparently, Ruger is positioning the cartridge as THE answer to the .375 H&H, but in a shorter-std. action and requiring less barrel length to produce the same velocities as the .375 H&H. I think it's the equivalent of the .375 Taylor?

This way, an American sportsman can hunt with their .300 or .338 mag. and also have the same bolt throw as an African legal and Big bear/lion stopping rifle. It would make for a lighter, shorter package to backpack and hunt in grizzly country-yet provide all the power of a 375 H&H.

Ammo/proper headstamped brass to be available in 2007 and brass for the .338 win. mag. is widespread.

What do you think? Opinions?
.375 Ruger discussion (it's the .375/.338 win. mag.)
According to this site its a .375/.338 cartridge with a belt: .375/338 Ruger

Maybe in Alaska but the 375HH case is way to easy to get everyplace on earth big game is hunted. You're not gonna find this new case anywhere but here.

Sounds like another new offer for the guy who just has to have the latest toy. I'm not sure I see the improvement or benifit. The shorter bolt throw cannot compete with the long tapered HH case which is famous for smooth feed and effortless eject when used for DG hunting. The steeper the shoulder the worse feed and eject become.

There is a good reason that HH design has been around so long and is so well accepted as "the" big game rifle of the world. It's case design is fantastic. Same can be said for the 300HH case design. Where difficult conditions and high temps are the norm the HH design is as good as it gets. I wish Ruger well, but I don't see this ever reaching any level of popularity, at least not enough to compete with the HH cartridge.

The H&H case design came to be as a result of using long cordite stick powder. The long slopping case was not able to head space correctly with its slopping shoulder so the designers as an after thought put the belt on it to make it work. (That belt acts as a rim to keep the case head against the bolt face to prevent head separation.)
Kind of like jury rigging. The chamber case fit also ended up being sloppy which was to its benefit in a dirty african climate.

H&H was lucky to turn out as it did. It was not brilliance that originated it.

I wish the German or American designed cases without belts would have taken hold or caught on instead.

Is the H&H that much better or is it monkey see monkey do?

WW1 ended or stunted case and rifle progress by decades.
Newton coming to mind as well as german designs.
We ended up or were stuck with British design.

I've handled some very smooth actions and they functioned
with normal rimless/beltless cases just as well.

SU, yours is the first version I've read of that origin!

All others I've read about the design were identical in regards to the long sloping case used to make feed and extract perfectly functional for a pure hunting rifle without any target or military design intent. Agreed the case length and design also had to accomadate the cordite which was used in that era.

In any event the design whether intentional or accidental is unsurpassed in function. Steep shouldered cases can certainly be made to feed exceptionally well. But the real test comes with contamination and foul weather. Remember back when Weatherby actions changed from Mauser to the ones made in California. Nothing but problems and complaints with the horrible feed they had. Gunsmiths made a fortune correcting these rifles. Some I've seen never fed good. Some had such strong springs to assit in the feed the shoulders would be dented from pressing against one another. When they moved to the next vintage made by Howa that cleared up. I think mostly from the gunsmiths who figured out what was needed. Both My model 70 winchester in 300 Wtby mag and my buddies Howa Made 300 Weatherby fed horribly at times, and at times they were fine. They were very high maintainance to keep them feeding well. This is not news, many people struggled with that long case tipping up at the angle it was being shoved forward with a steep shoulder.

Seeing as the CRF function of the Ruger Action is only about 75% CRF that does not help with a new cartridge which would seem to be for large and possible DG game species.

To clarify the Ruger CRF function; The case coming up from the magazine must be about 75% into the chamber before the rim is completely engaged by the claw. If you are to cycle the bolt 1/2 way and then pull it back the case lays in the throat of the chamber and does not come back with the bolt.

Very much unlike the Mauser, Winchester, Dakota, Kimber, Etc. which all have the case engage the bolt face 100% of the time after coming up from the magazine.

It's this kind of attention to detail by Ruger that makes me wonder about the feed reliabilty of a new cartridge with a steep shoulder designed for DG species. I now own a Ruger "CRF" rifle in 25/06 so I like the strength and 3 position safety but I'm not at all impressed with the CRF feed design!

"In any event the design whether intentional or accidental is unsurpassed in function"

Jim, I do believe that. But I also believe I could take a new Kimber, go 9.3x62 and not be on the short end of the stick in any bush in the world. My confindence level would be very high with this combo. I do like shorter throws and one more round with less recoil to boot. (Not that your feel percieved recoil in the bush.) you don't.


Also, I just found out the new 375 Ruger is based on the
300 win mag case instead of the shorter 338 case. That
seems to defeat it's purpose. What might have been a good idea then to go and hamstring yourself with a longer case.
Might as well just shoot an H&H and get the slicker benifit.

375 Ruger is an answer to a question no one's asking... although it'd be a dandy elk round <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brad, the question has been asked many times:

What Africa/dangerous game capable cartridge will fit a std. length action, and allow for a lighter, handier rifle (read 22-24" barrel and lower cartridge weight) for serious Alaska, B.C. and Yukon grizzly/brown bear and Africa use?

The answer was the .375 Taylor.

The new answer appears to be the .375 Ruger.

Brad, the other thing is that I have a .300 Win. Mag. It's apparently not based on the .338 win mag but on the 300 win. mag. I can maybe use some of my extra brass interchangeably (same platform) for north america hunting and have the same bolt throw?

Because I have an '06 length pre-64 M70 action and I want to go to Africa and after some big stuff, and think that such needs the .375H&H and CRF, I'm interested.

This one, I'll watch closely.

If it's designed off the 300 Winchester case wouldn't it be a pretty short neck gripping a 375 bullet?
Myself I think I'd perfer the Taylor cartridge for the longer neck.

I would think that the .375 Taylor would be perfect for Alaska. It probably will never surpass the popularity of the .338WM, but would make for a lighter .375 sort of cartridge.

I kind of have a lust afair with the 375 Taylor it has pinoche.

A 375 Ruger just doesn't have the cool sounding factor to it.

On a side I've no question what so ever that it will feed and will feed well. The H&H will have nothing on it in terms of feeding.


Mark D

Mark, I've gotta copy this and save it. We'll see if you still feel the same in a year or so! Look at the feed nightmare the shortmags have had! This to me to be a really big "short mag"

I am not understanding the attraction to a "lighter" rifle with the same power as the 375HH. One of the incredible benifits of the old 375HH is that it's the most powerful rifle cartridge you can shoot for your investment in felt recoil.

So we lose that feature, The wonderful long taperd feed and extract case design, ammo available nearly anyplace you would want a rifle like this, the sloppy to unrealistic CRF function of Ruger rifles.

If you're really serious about spending the money on a rifle cartridge that will likely save your life, who picks this one over the old faithfull 100% reliable and 100 years of proven performance Holland and Holland?

On another note I have serious doubts that it will shoot a 270 grain bullet at 2800fps or a 300 at 2600fps without pressure issues. How are you going to get more powder in a case with less capacity? I would suggest it will meet original 375HH factory spec, but not what can be realized with handloads in that 375HH.

Now the upside is that Ruger will make money on this. It keeps them in business and we need every American rifle maker pumping out guns to stay afloat. For that I hope it sells like crazy. I want it to be a success and see great use across the globe. I'm just not believing all the Hype surrounding it right now. I suppose there are already too many little guns flooding the market. Why not go for the bigger ones.

Ruger is certainly the leader in new releases today. From the little 17 caliber up to the 458 Lott and several unique big bore handguns. I give them credit for the effort!

I'd rather have the 375 H&H. As Brad already said, this cartridge is an answer to a question that was never asked.

This is the first I have heard of the new Ruger .375 cartridge, but I have to say I�m a prime candidate to buy one � for a number of reasons.

The first is that I like Ruger centerfire rifles and have more of them (4) than I do Marlin (3), Browning, (1), Remington (1) or any other make (0).
While I have a Marlin in .375Win, I�ve wanted a .375 in H&H, Dakota or RUM for some time � not for Africa, not for Alaska or Canada, not even for hunting in griz country in the lower 48, all places I will very likely NEVER hunt. A .375 bolt gun would become another elk rifle in the stable.

With kids in college, new Ruger rifles in H&H, Dakota rifles or even Remington RUM�s are out of my price bracket � and I have not seen any at gun shows that were in a condition and price that would separate me from m money either. The new Rugers can be built on the standard length Ruger action and should be no more expensive to manufacture than a .338 or .300. My last new Ruger was a canoe-paddle .300 Win that I paid $375 for during the Christmas sales. Even without the sales $450 will get a new Ruger most any day, at least in the Denver area. I�m sure the new .375�s will command a premium price for a while the initial demand is serviced, but that should change relatively quickly.

As to the Ruger �flaw� of sloppy CRF, I own both push-feed CRF Rugers and am quite happy with both. I do prefer the CRF simply because I do 99.9% of my shooting at the range in single shot mode and the CRF makes easier to extract cases one handed � I just angle them out and pluck them out of the receiver.

So what I am looking at with the new Ruger .375 is a cartridge and rifle combination that should soon fall into my price range, is on the action I prefer. Even better, I suspect more than a few people will buy them, shoot them only to discover the recoil is more than they want to handle, and sell them. I�ll be keeping an eye out for those rifles in particular!

Is the 300WM case capacity basicaly the same or very close to the 300H&H? If so then wouldn't it make sence that this new Ruger 375 if based on the 300WM case would have virtually the same capacity as the 375H&H??? Also when was the last time you heard of anyone having a feeing issue with a 338WM or 300WM etc. Pretty much the only issues I've heard of where with the first generation WSM's that came out and the WSSM's. IMO feeding will be a moot point.

I think like coyote hunter... A power house of a rifle in an afordable package. Pretty much the cheapest 375H&H you could find would be a CZ, and IMO they're fugly... and are in the $650 range. I'll bet that the Ruger variation will be closer to the $400 range, and I'll have money left over for a scope.

I have a DG rifle already so this one would be 'back up' when I go, and will likely be a go to elk rifle as well.

Was it really needed? Nope, and neither were any 30cal mags introduced after the 300H&H, so whats the point???

There has always been some demand for a 375 cartridge that will function in an 06 length magazine and deliver H&H ballistics , and I think it well sell to a certain extent in a standard priced Ruger..........lot's of rifle nuts of average means have lusted for a 375 H&H , but just about every one made has commanded a premium price , and you couldn't adapt the H&H to most standard length actions without alot of expensive and sometimes questionable, 'smith work .

I think the designers are also showing some good sense using the 300 Win. case , as the powder capacity should be very , very close to the H&H , or maybe exceed it a bit , and it will function thru 06 length actions without a hitch........given the current trends I'm a little surprised they didn't use a shortened ultra mag case .

At any rate , give me a Ruger 77 all weather to weigh about 8 3/4 or 9 lbs scoped , priced with the 300 s or 338 s , I'll buy one.............

Ok maybe I'm hung up on the feed issue too much. But I spend much of my life in a situation that is clearly different from many of you folks.

The "typical" American hunter wants every possible amount of speed from his cartridge. Just look at the magnums evolution in this Country!

Now I get a hunter who has taken the time to develop this maximum+ load with great accuracy and he's shooting a 300 win mag from a more or less stock rifle. He's awfully proud of the effort and has a hella powerful accurate load, under normal American fall hunting conditions.

He has this gun in the 90-100+ degree sun for the whole day. The metal is hot to the touch, not warm, but burning hot. Then he has the chance for the shot and the spent shell ain't coming out of that chamber now. I promise you this has been a frequent enough occurrence that the design concept bothers me enough to have mentioned it. Max loads at 60-70 deg are way over loaded at 90-100!

Another scenario. The hunter shows up in AK for a coastal brownie hunt. He is using brass shells not nickel plated. He's got them in a leather shell holder on his belt. By the 4-5th day they are green and have a film over the whole case. The shells in the magazine are also getting green. Now he gets a shot and guess what, the extractor pulls off the rim, or the extractor jumps the rim leaving the spent shell in the chamber. I've seen this happen more times then I can count.

But never a single time ever with the HH long tapered case design. Why do you think it's popularity for Brownies was unmatched for the last 40 years or so? Plenty of power, 100% reliable and built with CRF actions that were proven. Plus mild recoil with easy second shots for such a powerful rifle.

So maybe the guy using it for Elk in mild/ cold weather gets what he wants from this design. For those folks I stand corrected on the skeptical over analyzing of these posts. However, I still stand by my concern over the use of this "new" design for those buying it to protect themselves or for those hunting in harsh/hot/salty/ hideous conditions.

I suspect that a properly designed CRF action well tuned with a reasonable loads in this cartridge will function well.

On the other hand, this load packed to the gills with powder and shot from a less then perfect CRF rifle could be a struggle. I would very likely just shoot it in a Push feed that has a flawless feeding cycle. In any case buying a new rifle for DG is very much like racing a new car. It's a bad idea to compete at the highest level and expect to come out on top without experts in your corner. Whether they be your mechanic, and race team setting up the car for the race, or it be your gunsmith who makes that gun competitive for the dangerous potential situations it may have to get you out of.

The cost of brand new rarely if ever includes "just right" where rifles are concenred today.

Jim, guess I'm missing something... this cartridge isn't a beltless mag ala WSM. It's a standard belted round... can't understand where the idea it won't feed well comes from.?.?

Maybe we should just drop the whole feed issue all togehter.
I never suggested it will not feed or extract all ways, or forever, or 100% of the time.

The design of the HH cartridge was superior to all other cases ever made in the freaking history of firearms for feed and eject functions. Making a case with a rebated rim? (is that the case?) and a short neck with a long shell case bearing surface is not as functional as the 375HH case is. Especially in conditions where it's in a tough environment , or stressful.

the neck should not be shorter that the bore caliber diameter. Necks tend to be much shorter in these "new" cartridges. I believe they generally sacrifice neck length to get velocity by virtue of increasing powder capacity.

Try keeping the bullets in the shell under recoil with that short neck. It's already an issue with a long neck!

Some of these cartridges incorporate a rebated rim to accomodate a standard magnum faced bolt. This is often the cause of feeding problems for the cartridge

If the whole point is just another elk rifle that's great go for it, have fun. The post originally expressed that this would be a good Alaska bear rifle or for Africa.

I simply do not agree at all where life and limb are concerned that this comes close to the solution we already had.

Brad - I am with you - the 300 WM isn't a finiky feeder in my opinion and I have had a bout 6 Rugers and they have all fed flawless. So I think Ruger will get it to run. They sure don't seem to be making may mistakes lately and they are atleast progressing as a company - new rifles and pistols (their new 45ACP) and new rounds for us to play with.

Plus they carry no long term debt and have other non gun business ventures (read somewhere that virtualy all Ti golf heads sold in the US, regardless of name brand are done by Ruger)

One would have to say that over their life time Ruger seems to have been run VERY well and are a pretty good model of how to run an American gun company.

Kind of a 308/30'06 thing, if you are in the '06 camp you will stick with the H&H, if you like the new-fangled, then this Taylor brother will excite you. As with above 308/'06 example, I question that handloaders can equal the best H&H with the Taylor type case design. Factory loads may prove equal. I like the 375 Weatherby better, JMHO. Bill

There is no reason the new catridge has to be loaded hotter than the H&H , if you think about it the 300 Win has quite a little more speed potential than a 300 H&H(larger powder capacity) so with prudent loads , extraction under very hot conditions should be a non-issue .

As to the neck length , that should also be a non-issue , the old H&H doesn't have all that much neck to start with . Bump the 300 Win case up to 375 and you will have a neck length very close to the H&H .

As to reliabilty under poor condtions , I see no reason a this new cartridge will be any different than any garden variety 338 or other belted case..........

I'm sure though , the fellas that get to Africa alot will stick with their H&H rifles , if nothing else , there will always be a big concern for ammo re-supply , but some of us home bound characters that like to play with big bores and occationally make a stab at collecting an elk or moose may buy the new round......

What I'm hearing elsewhere is that the new Ruger cartridge is a non-belted 'fat' case. Just what I would want it to be!

[quote]Mark, I've gotta copy this and save it. We'll see if you still feel the same in a year or so! Look at the feed nightmare the shortmags have had! This to me to be a really big "short mag"
-------

JJ- if you want to cut past copy put it on your bathroom mirror I could give a care of what you want to do with it. DO IT, that is fine with me. I just don't care what you want to do.

From what you said here it is more than apparent that you don't believe it will feed.

Horse apples, I honeslty expect a bit more from you on this one. A fella with your experience should know better than to say a round like this won't feed. I mean for crying out loud how darn tough is it to get a 300 winnie and or a 338 to feed. Not exactly rocket science! If a person/or a company like Ruger has a tough time making a round like this feed then they had better find a new line of work! Go and work for Keebler or something.

Now if the round in question was say a 375 WSM and you had spoken in said fashion I would of thought, yep sounds about right to me. Even though my lil 338/300 WSM feeds like a charm.

But this is not the same as a "short mag", not even freakin close.

I tell you what I have an action, I'll have my smith build me a Taylor. When it is all done we'll get a bunch of folk from the "fire" together, do some shooting, make smores, tell lies and sing kumbaya. And we will also give all a chance to shoot,handle and see how my Taylor feeds.

If, all agree that it don't feed then I will gladly pay you what I had in the project. So I would be out the expense of the tube work, and I would also pay you what I had in the job as well.

Now on the otherhand if all agree that it does feed then you pay me what I have in the project.

How's this sound?

Sounds about fair to me.

You sound awfully sure of yourself about it not feeding so lets see how convicted you really are on this.

Thx 4 your time

Mark D

One last thing for the rest of the gang and not just JJ.

Do I think it is a neat lil round, yep I do.

Do I see a need for it, nope

Do I think it will sell, nope I don't but you never know.

Do I believe it will feed, ah I think you already know my answer to this one.

And lastly will it ever run with a H&H nope, but it will be very close as in what a 308 is to a 06 and a 7/08 is to a 280 and what a 300 WSM is to a 300 WM.

Ciao

Mark D

JJ, this was the statement that prompted my question to you... it was an honest question with no ill will at all... seriously. If I'm reading betweent the lines correctly you were a bit miffed at the question. It wasn't my intent to goad you, I was just curious why you were comparing a WSM to this new 375 as they're apples and oranges... totally different cases. I thought perhaps I was missing something. Obviuosly I wasn't.

I'd also add I've had two SS M70 375 H&H's... I would prefer the H&H version to this cartridge as it's a known quantity and available everywhere plus it'll breath easy and still out perform this new round. On the other hand, the idea that the 375 H&H necessarily feeds better is horse puckey. In fact, I've seen more than one M70 that didn't feed the big, long H&H well. I've alwayas felt the M70's geometry isn't quite right for the H&H sized cases and is better with the 300 WM sized cases...

just a few thought's.

There is a picture of it up on AR... can't tell just how 'fat' it is, or at least I can't. Looks similar to a 300WM case sans the belt, neck looks to be about bore lenght.

Bambi, thanks...

Here they are. Heck, now I like it better... looks like a 300 WM sans belt:

I now own a Ruger "CRF" rifle in 25/06 so I like the strength and 3 position safety but I'm not at all impressed with the CRF feed design!

JJ how accurate is the stock Ruger 25/06 they make a SS LH
and thinking about one. Like a lighter rifle do they feel heavy?

Mark, I said I was going to copy that and wait to see what happens down the road as a joke. Sorry it was disturbing to you.
Brad and others
Again and I will repeat this for the dozenth(is that a word?) time. I never ever said even once that it would not feed or eject, what corporate moron would market a new product that would not work at all?

I questioned whether it was not going to feed or eject like the 375HH with flawless dependabilty. I base that on the short mag designs I have seen up to now. Their feeding really sucks from those I have seen, and the guys I know who bought them. Do a search on this very site. It's not a secret.

When it comes to DG like Africa and Alaska my concern was it's not like the 375HH design so it's likely to be feed and eject problematic when combined with the 1/2 way CRF action Ruger sells.

It may not be at all, I don't have a crystal ball here and I don't work in rifle design. However based on what I have seen from the new generation of shortend cases I'm very skeptical of this working as well as the 375HH does, or to somehow believe it would equal or surpass it as a DG rifle. With factory level pressure they should be fine in hot weather. I just don't run into all that many people who shoot mild factory ammo. I would guess 9 of 10 Americans hunting with me have the "special loads" version which is really where the problems crop up.

Up til now this has been a light hearted conversation, however I get the feeling in some of the posts now there is a bizzare level of increasing stress? I'm confused by that. Do you really give a rip about my opinion here that it justifies getting stressed or angry?

Simply put, I have strong reservations on it's abiltiy to compete heads up with the original 375HH design. So much so that I don't see it putting a dent in the HH usage where a serious professional, or a serious hunter in a DG situation would feel as good using it. At least not as he would with a real CRF and a 375HH cartridge. Anyone who doubts this is a bit premature considering the defense of a cartridge and rifle that is not even for sale yet!

If you guys actually read all the text I wrote I said cleary that I hope it's a success and Ruger sells lots of them. Ruger has released more new products then anyone and we need our American Gun makers to stay afloat. It's written above. I'm not anti Ruger, Heck I just bought one myself, my first non-winchester centerfire in my life. I'm not anti "new designs" either. Great lets find the best possible cartridge/bullet/ powder/ I'm all for it.

Remember there were not too many people that were disgusted with Barnes bullets more then I was. I hated those bullets because they were so inconsistant and troublesome. Through the evolution of the product I saw them improve quite a lot. I have 200 loaded as my "go to load" in the 30/06 and about 200 for the 458 Lott which I have been using for 5-6 years now. If there were an "agenda" I would still be bashing them.
What I post here is not from some agenda I have but rather from "gut feel" based on a hella lotta field experience. When something sucks, you won't see me beat around the bush. When it's great I won't keep it a secret either. We'll all see what happens with the new 375 cartridge togther.

I was just making a light hearted joke about the "I'll keep a copy of this post for later" thing. Don't sweat it.........my pathetic attempts at humour always seem to get me in some kind of trouble here!

KK I sent you a PM I don't want to get off topic here

JJ-no harm no foul-if you were truly trying to be funny I aplogize for coming out at the bell swinging. I read it wrong I guess.

One big issue I see with these forums is that I lack the face to face to truly read what is being said. If that makes sense.

I am going down to pick up my 70/375 Wby now so ave a good day! And it will feed...grins

Mark D

Jim, again you're making a lot of assumptions based on... well, I'm not sure what!

______________________________________________________________

"feed or eject like the 375HH with flawless dependabilty."

Say's who?

Like I said, I've had TWO M70 375's both of which needed tweaking to feed properly. Many M70's will run the long H&H cartridges right into the extractor cutout, hanging up, unless tuned. Many think the M70 geometry isn't apporpriate to the H&H length cartridges... I tend to think the argument has some merit based on what I've seen.

______________________________________________________________

"I base that on the short mag designs I have seen up to now. Their feeding really sucks from those I have seen, and the guys I know who bought them. Do a search on this very site. It's not a secret."

So you are basing your idea on the WSM's even though they're absolutely nothing alike!

As an aside, I've had FOUR 300 WSM's including one of the first from Winchester. I was probably the first one here on 24hr to point out the pitfalls of the design in relation to feeding back in 2001... do a search.

You know, having a shorter action doesn't save all that much weight, and a 375 H&H class chambering shouldn't be a featherweight anyway. Further, this 375/338 Win will need to be in a long action anyway. I won't need to be in the oversized actions like the CZ Safari, Ruger Rigby, or Mk 5, but then again, neither does a 375 H&H.

Having said that, the 375/338 will be a fine round. It will feed just fine and performance will be on par with the 375 H&H. Who knows if it will catch on. It had better become more popular than the 376 Steyer...........

Exchanged some thoughtful PM's with JJ since it seems like we're all talking past each other here.

Bottom line... no stinking cartridge is worth a public misunderstanding!

JJ's a good guy...

Yep JJ and I got it all sorted via PM, he and Brad are good fellas...look out for that Mark D fella though...grins

Mark D

Yeah! Even more so in some of the other forums.

Glad you guys shook hands.

Back to something someone said earlier in this thread about the shape of the .375 H&H case and length of cordite strands....

I don't load with Cordite, obviously, but I Googled it earlier today, and it seems to me the idea isn't without merit.

Cordite was extruded, and so it could be cut to any length. But in order to get enough into the case to get the velocity they wanted, they could either go with a long, skinny case - with long strands - or a short, fat one, with a greater number of shorter strands.

But I don't know what the thinking was at the time about the burn rate and pressures of fewer long strands, versus more, but shorter strands.

Getting a headache, now. I think we need a chemist.

- TJM

Absolutely!

Ok back to the good stuff.

If the Ruger comes out and has a bit of weight to the tube (.65" to .67") I will pick one up and give it a run. I've heard thru the grapevine (thanks Mac) that Bansner makes a handle for a Ruger.

If they do I and Mac will build a corporate rifle (I just love spending his $ 4 him).

Heck if it works we'll even borrow it, and or is it loan it to JJ for him to take it accross the pond and give it a go. He may have to take us with him though......grins

Seriously though I love the short and stout ones (rifles that is) and this lil 20" Ruger in a Bansner with a straight 4X or my 3X Leo would/could be a heck of a neat rig!

I will of course need to put on a bit more optic for the chuck season though.

Make it your best day!

Dober

Mark,
I am with you on this one......seems like it could be made into a neat little package (for a 375 package <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Hope they will think of us lefties on this one. Could be my first Ruger in almost 15 years!

For you lefties, perhaps a #1A??

Mark D

Us lefties have the world so backwards we NEED a magazine fed rifle....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I blew out a shoulder playing ball years ago, was forced to learn to do all left handed 4 quite a while including shooting.

I am sort of fortunate as I can kind of shoot off of either side..sort of that is.

Mark D

On a good day I can ring a doorbell left handed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm confused by that photo. One looks like a weatherby shoulder and the other a Win mag shouder. Why are they so different? What are they comparing? a 270 and a 300 grain bullet side by side?

Maybe just my monitor but the shoulders on those two cases look nothing alike to me!

From the picture, it looks like a RUM, right down to the COL and case length, as determined by using the bullet diameter as a calibration point. Not very exact with the tools I was using, but very similar.

Are you sure this ISN'T a RUM?

i found out afew years backwhile exterminating ground squirrels on my uncles farm that i can shoot a rifle using iron sights pretty darn well left handed, however for some dang reason if the rifle has a scope i cant do it. won a bet with my brother over it. me shooting left handed i took out more squirrels than him shooting right handed(both of us are naturally right handed)

as for the new round cant wait to see it but i already have a 375WSM <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> hows that for giving yah heart burn JJ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> if i ever make it to Africa though ill find a 375 H&H to haul with me. for screwing around here in Montana after everything from ground squirrels and jackrabbits up to elk, i use whatever catches my eye cause i always have a second rifle with me anyways

Rattler-most every time I go to the range I abuse the gong from standing from both right and left side.

It helps to work on it from time to time. I had to use my off hand once in a stand a deer came in from I way I could not get to righty so I just took it lefty.

Fun practice for sure.

Mark D

Having shot a lot of different calibers a lot, I am in the camp with JJ that NOTHING feeds like a 300 H &H in a nice slick action (like a pre-64) THey still feed, but often with a hitch or a hiccup.

The ONLY reason Ruger would do this is that they don't make a magnum (H&H) length action. If they want to sell bigger rifles- they had to make a round that would work. THis doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's probably silly at this point.

If you want a lightweight elk rifle that will work with heavy bullets for whatever reason, I guess this is your baby.

As for me, my next rifle will be a 375 Holland- although I really do like JBs 9.3 BS. it was a true SHORT action with nearly the stuff of the H&H, It fed fine, but not like my H&Hs.

JMO

Ruger makes and sells quite a few "big rifles" in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby and 458 Lott. HERE

Those are the bolt guns - not counting the No. 1 which doesn't really have an action length to speak of. In the No1 thumpers include 375H&H, 405 Win, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott and the 458 Win.

I don't think Ruger did it to have a thumper - they already had them - I think they did it to offer a gun in the general MK II line that a guy could use as a DGR. The Magnum line before this typicaly featured upgraded wood and an upgraded price to go with. CZ has been offering large bore rifles at a good price and I think Ruger wanted a piece of the pie. Now they could have just offered the thumpers in a MKII and been done but whats the fun in that?

I like Ruger guns, and the strength they offer, I like that they are the only folks on eath making true SS rings. I love their three position safety, argueably the best ever made. The integral scope bases are also very nice.

However if it was truely their intent to get into the DG market with this in a big way, they should start by making the CRF action work like a CRF rifle should!

Once that shell leaves the magazine it should be controlled by the bolt face 100% of the time, not just when it's 1/2 way to the chamber and snaps up from the magazine. With all the effort they put into this action, it's a horrible shame they fell just short of making their CRF function actually work!

JJ- I am not a CRF guru - but could rail work make that happen - 100% control ? To be honest I never paid much attention - all I know is on the 6 Rugers I owned - they all put rounds in the chamber and ALWAYS took them out. I hunt deer and went after black bear 2x so my needs and expirences are different than yours but I would bet that most guns sold in the US over 338 caliber are never used anywhere near a cow much less cape buff.

I mean there can not be that many people going to Africa or dropping 20k on a bear in AK hunt can there?

It's not relevent to me what anyone hunts. What's relevent to me is that a claim of CRF is made, and it's not true. Kinda like Barnes saying that the four petals on their expanded bullets are "razor sharp" Or the old black talon ammo marketing that their bullets spin through flesh like a "buzz saw". Or scent lock clothing actually has some function aside from making you hot and sweaty( stinking even more)

All that is crap information, not a word of truth, yet the uninformed hunter is sucking it up. It's a shame more people don't call manufacturers on these out and out lies and deception.

My 30/06 (now 25/06) Ruger feeds and ejects flawlessly, however it's not working as a CRF rifle until the bolt is more then half way closed. So it's not a CRF rifle. I tried 6 other Rugers in the few months. All were exactly the same. It's not that mine is bad, it's just how they all work. Whether or not you "need" this function is your decision. It is however decieving the public to show you have this yet it does not function like the Mauser/Winchester/Dakota/Olympic arms/Montana rifles, etc etc.

Just my opinion of course, and you're probably right most guys have probably never even noticed this. But for the guy who really believes he has purchased a CRF rifle because his mind was made up to have one, he's been ripped off! I do think it's possible to correct the way it works. All the parts are there. It's the feed angles and timing that are way off.

I would like to see a Ruger 458 Lott or 416 Rigby to see if anything different was done to make them feed properly ...........if they do? I have only seen smaller cartridges from the 25/06 to the 338 and none feed with a real CRF function.

Well it would be nice to see a LH Ruger in SS in any kind of .375! I agree they are not a true control feed the early Ruger MK11 had a lip on the bottom of the bolt to prevent controlled round feed but were advertised as CRF. The only case failures I have had, have been with the 375 H&H which left the case in the rifle and head came out with the bolt.
So I use new or twice fired brass in my hunting loads.

Took this pic this morning.

From L to R



.338 Win
.375-338 w/Win 270 gr PP
.375-338 w/300 gr Partition
.375 H&H empty
.375-338 empty

I don't like Ruger trying to put their name on it. Kinda like A-Square naming the .338-06 A-Square.

My knocks on the 375 H&H - length of case/action req'd. Sloping case may feed well, but increases back thrust. This is why the H&H is generally loaded to lower PSI levels and why it's so easy to match H&H performance with the Taylor.

MM

Since I don't buy/shoot factory ammo, reloading for it is not an issue for me.

MM

Greater backthrust do to the less parallel shell case to chamber wall bearing surface. (not as much grip)

Also coincidentally why the HH design extracts 100% reliable even in horrible conditions and with high heat.

I think the Lower pressure has to do with the greater case volume? What is the difference in case volume? Does the blown out 338 case have a close capacity to the HH case?

I use RL15 with the 270 grain bullets. I have loaded to 77 grains where I saw pressure issues. Those bullets left the barrel in the mid to upper 2800 range.

With 76 grains I never have pressure problems and the velocity was about the same. With 75 grains it's absolutley no problem and the velocity is just over 2800 fps at 60-70DegF
This leaves me margin for error in South Africa for the higher temps. My loads are now and have always been used with 210's not magnum primers. When I used Magnum primers my accuracy was a bit inconsistant. With the large rifle Primers they shoot like a target rifle! I also crimp them fairly tight with a Lee factory crimp die. I can have no risk a bullet comes lose from the shell!

I have shot a few Hornady Heavy Magnum factory loads with the 270 grain bullets. They were 2850fps dead on the money and shot into the same clump of holes in the target as my handloads do. They also used 76 grains of powder( I took one apart)

I suspect I could fit 80 grains of powder or a bit more into this case. What is the capacity of the 338/375 case?

Here's some .375 Taylor data:
.375 Taylor

jds, that's our own BW's website...

I saw the name BW on the site, but wasn't sure if it was ours or not. Learn something new everyday.

Well here's my capacity results (to base of neck of fired case:)

375 H&H (Fed Nickel) = 80.5 gr RL15
.375-338 (RP Nickel) = 75.7 gr RL 15

6.3% difference

I used Fed 210's also. I don't think you need a magnum cap for the likes of RL15, 4064 and Varget.

My practical max loads for lead core bullets are:

270 gr / 71.0 gr RL 15 / 2,675 fps / 21" bbl
300 gr / 66.0 gr RL 15 / 2,500 fps / 21" bbl


MM

Over on AR the speculation is now this is gonna be a totaly NEW case , with the body being as fat as the belt on H&H brass........

If true , the case will hold more powder than the old H&H . From the pictures on AR , it does appear to have a bit fatter body than the 338 and it's ilk...........so...... could be interestin' stuff ahead.....

Andrew-

Those rifles you are referring to are not the standard rifles that Ruger sells- these cost in the $1500 range. They sell VERY few of them each year. They want to be able sell a 375 at a competitive rate. I have only seen ruger come out with a couple of dogs, so I expect that this will be a decent rifle. I have noticed a huge drop in QC at Ruger since Bill died. More and more of their parts are being installed "as cast" rather than machined to tolerances. Oh- well, people still buy them.

===============
from: http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ert_072706/

HORNADY
Wayne Holt of Hornady also had some new for 2007 items for us to look at and after the presentation he told me that I could share all of it with the online reading audience. So for about two hours I sat patiently through the rest of the day's presentations, formulating in my head how to present this mountain of info. While I was planning my day four write-up, Hornady Marketing guru Neil Davies started to chew on Holt's ear about how he didn't think it was a good idea to let the information out at this point. So after lunch, with a smile on his face, Neil informed me that I can only report on the .375 Ruger, the new for 2007 round that Hornady is manufacturing.


New for 2007, Hornady Ammunition's .375 Ruger.

The .375 Ruger features a standard magnum bolt face, is reported as being the smoothest feeding magnum to date and will be available in 270-gr. SP, 300-gr. IB and 300-gr. FMJ.

The round has been field tested by Craig Boddington in Africa with great success. Boddington killed a hippo and two water [sic] buffalo with the round.

Look for a future in-depth review in a Primedia publication.
=========

NO belt, I like it.

Thanks,

Ya gotta wonder why it took a factory so long to try a case designed along these lines , after ultra-mag , shot-mag , and stretching , chopping , and necking the old belted Holland and Holland case every which way but loose.....

Reportedly (check big bore forum on AR) the factory loads are going to hit 2850 fps/270 gr and 2700fps/300 gr !........recoil in a synthetic stocked Ruger 77 is not gonna be for the once a year , trigger yankin' deer hunter.........

I really like that!!

A fat, beltless cartridge that fits in a standard-length action? What possible advantage could that provide? Oh, wait, never mind - that�s just what I�ve been wanting! I anticipate the cartridge will be a success and will generate more than a few offspring over the coming years.

The short mags never did interest me but the concept of FBMs (Fat, Beltless Magnums) that fit standard-length actions have. I�ve been hoping for some time that Ruger would chamber the Dakota cartridges, or at least the .338 and .375. While I wanted a Ruger in a FBM, the RUMs don�t fit the Ruger standard action and I didn�t want a 9-1/2 or 10-pound Ruger Magnum.

I think there is much to be said for a fat, heavy bullet traveling at moderate velocities, which is one reason I like my .375 Winchester and .45-70. It�s also why I like the concept of the .338 Federal and .338-06. The Ruger .375 will not be in the same class as the RUM, but that�s quite OK with me as it comes in a more practical package.

Let�s see � a .375 Ruger initially � what could be next � a .338 Ruger? I like it!

Perhaps it is a bit of common sense infiltrating the ammo and rifle manufacturers.

Wow, here comes a whole nother slew of wildcats.

Damn! Another great idea I didn't patent! (Most folks don't know it but I thunk up the idea for mountain bikes back in 1976. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Seriously, I've often wondered why they don't just make a case that starts at the same diameter as a belted case and then just run the sidewalls up from there. Not as much capacity as an Ultra mag or some such based on the .404, but it would definitely add usable space.

Even better, if I'm getting this right, you could clean up a lot of existing belted mag chambers if folks wanted to re-chamber to something based on the new case. You wouldn't have to change the bolt face nor modify the feed rails most likely.

I really think this is the most genuinely useful design to come up in hunting cartridges in a long time - far better than the Ultra Blasters with their excessive power and easier feeding than the short mags.

Good on Ruger and Hornady!

Jim, if in fact that's what this cartridge is, I couldn't agree more!

Should be dandy necked down to 30 cal too...

Dennis - I have never seen a Ruger like I listed at 1500. 1100 sure but not 1500. That is where I was comming from.

I haven't seen any fall off in the Rugers I looked at recently but they could have been old stock Dunno. I hope they don't fall off. IMO a Ruger is the best buy in tirearms right now. 500 bones for a good looking rifle that comes with rings. Ergos are spot on for me. I looked at CZ and they just do not do it for me.

still not sure what this does that the 376 Steyr does not already do, except maybe have the Ruger name and endorsement.

David, it's a bigger case...

Water Buffalo in Africa?

I wish they would make a 284 based case only with the 30-06 length. You wouldn't have to change the bolt face on the many existing standard actions and probably get belted mag capacities, plus be beltless.

They do - the 280 remington. I believe its most popular offering is 280AI which is supposed to run with teh 7mm mag.

Nosler is supposed to be offering brass as the 280AI soon as their new custom is being offered in that this year. No fireforming if that's the hold up.

I didn't mean 284 caliber, I meant 284 the Short action cartridge with the rebated rim. If that short action cartridge were extended out to standard action length w/ same shoulders etc then the capacity would be greater, (probably close to the same diff %wise between 7-08-284).

Then it would surpass the ai versions of standard rounds and be close to or surpassing the belted mag version. Not sure here just pulling a wild guess.

Ahhh - I see. That would be cool then. I thought you were asking for a 30-06 length 7mm.

Well, I did add a [sic] in the text I quoted from the web site. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

sic --- Thus; so. Used to indicate that a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written intentionally.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sic

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I always thought [sic] meant "said in context" or "This idjit cain't speak engrish".

Most importantly to me, it will come in a Ruger package...

That and I think that more than likely the others and ammo mfgs will support this a bit better than the steyr. I can not recall ever seeing steyr ammo on the shelf.

I think it will beat out the RUM in sales, too. The RUM could not be chambered in rifles with a 3.4" magazine or .30-06 length action.

I'm thinking M77 RS. I hope it has the old sights. Oh and Stainless.

This case should taper more than a standard magnum 2.5 or 2.6 inch case, since it starts at the diameter of a conventional case's belt, rather than the body. If the .375 H&H has its reliability in part from the taper of the case, this one should be reliable too. If there is any advantage to a beltless case, this case has this second virtue too. I like the .376 Steyr and the .416 Taylor. When is the .416 Ruger going to be introduced? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I absolutely had to bring this back to life. "Answer to a question no one is asking" hahaha now look at it.

It's also funny that people thought it was a necked up .300WM lol

Exactly. I've maintained from day-one that the .375 Ruger is a solution in search of a problem.

Don't agree... the .375 Ruger is an excellent cartridge of modern design principles. I have a Ruger M77 African rifle in .375 Ruger and a M77 Mark II Stainless rifle in .358/375 Ruger... I carry the latter a lot while guiding, loaded with 225 Accubond, it is a flat shooting, heavy hitter.

Both cartridges are great. Choose whichever is chambered in the rifle you want.

375 Ruger is readily available in South Africa.

"375 Ruger is readily available in South Africa."
AB please tell me specifically what retailers in South Africa carry Ruger 375 cartridges? I am asking in case my ammunition is waylaid travelling.

Ask your PH----he'll know.

I agree, that the 375 Ruger is an excellent cartridge. I also think the 416 Ruger is an excellent one.
I have both, no regrets, and thoroughly enjoy using both.

...


Weatherby should pay some royalties for this conceptual work from 15 years ago 😉