After some feedback from these forums I have locked down my no-DG hunting gun and wanted to share my observations and solicit feedback. It may just be the perfect solution for everything but rabbits and dangerous game. In other words Coyotes - Elk

The gun is a Sako 85 Hunter which I bought pre-owned at Cabelas with the original 30-06 barrel in a box and an unmarked 6.5-06 barrel in a 22.25 in length on the gun - 1:9 twist. I had it verified and stamped by a gunsmith before I shot it. The scope is a Bushnell 6500 Elite 2.5 - 16 x 50 scope Mil Dot Reticle with Sako Rings. The rifle and scope weigh 9.4 lbs. The Bushnell seemed a good value at the time for less than 600 dollars.

After much reloading I have settled on a Hornady 143 ELD X with 51.4 g RL 22, WLR Primer in 25-06 Brass necked up with Redding Dies. I am getting 2806 fps measured with a Magneto at 5500 feet elevation in 70 degrees in an indoor range. The rifle is shooting .75 to 1 in groups for the first two sets of three rounds - The Sako locking mag which I actually like carries 5 rounds a nice advantage over the 6.5 PRC and other magnums and short fat cartridges

At 8500 feet and 35 degrees, 200 yd Zero - where I hunt the federal ballistics calculator shows it will carry the minimum Colorado recommended energy of 1500 and velocity of 2000 out to 600 yds for Elk - the recoil energy is 14.62 lbs and 10fps. Perfect for me.

The rifle has excellent balance, the barrel is heavy enough to shoot 10 - 15 rounds for practice and the scope seems well made, has accurate adjustments, parallax to 10 yds and seems to have better glass than my Nightforce NXS (which does have better turrets and seems more durable) the scope also has a no questions lifetime transferable warranty. The Hornady bullets are inexpensive, easy to load and while I have not verified, are supposed to be deadly at almost all hunting ranges. The brass can be easily made from 25-06, 30-06 and 270 - the most plentiful brass on earth.

The 6-5-06 has significantly more velocity than the much celebrated 6.5 CM, perfect recoil, and is very close to the new 6.5 prc (in the same sized barrels) the hornady ammo lists 2960 in their factory PrC ELD-X load. I imagine my exact load would easily make 2860 in a 24 in barrel. The load appears to be just as accurate as the much hyped new 6.5's and I do not think it is an overbore, but this is subjective.

I wish the scope had MOA hash marks on the reticle to match the turrets instead of mil dots, and I really like illumination which this one does not have although the glass is so bright I have great visibility in the before and after sunrise/sunset realm when the Elk are most active. I am thinking about getting Nikon Laserforce Bino's and Kenton Custom turrets to expedite the shot. For the next barrel I am considering a 24" for more velocity from Mark Chanlynn who has an excellent reputation and is local to me here in Longmont Colorado. I would probably move to a 1:8 twist in the new barrel as it is supposed to be optimal for larger bullets over 130 although perhaps I should not fix something that aint broken.

I would appreciate opinions in this. I was never able to get the 140 Nosler AB's to group. I am considering either a Swift 120 A frame or Nosler 130 AB for smaller game although I like one powder, one bullet for everything and might just let it be.

I would love to hear feedback on this project from others.

Sounds like a winner. I'm very happy with my CZ 550 American in 6.5x55, which is very accurate.

Does every Walmart that carries Ammo sell them? Then what do you do If you drove across 4 states to hunt and something happened to your ammo. Just a thought.

My 6.5-06 has an 18" barrel and gets 140 Berger VLDs going around 2850 fps using RL26. Not sure I would claim it is the greatest cartridge known to man kind, but I do like it a lot. Mine is a 8 twist.

Never lost my ammo but it would be a problem if you did.

Been hunting for 60 years, never forgot my ammo!! Just a thought!

I truly understand why any hunter wants to create or use something unique, we all do in our own way. What makes a wildcat hard to sell is where the results already exist such as a 7x57 which will already send a 150gn bullet at 2800fps and offer a decent selection of bullet designs in that weight as well as offer an additional 25 grains at the same velocity many .30/06 factory cartridges propel a 180 grainer.

The original purpose of a wild cat cartridge was to fill a gap. Those days are gone.

Having said that, please ignore everything I wrote and enjoy your rifle. It will do everything you planned for it.
John

It's a great round as is the AI version, which gets you another 100 fps. Mine gets 3050 easily with 140's and a 24" barrel.

My only 6.5MM shoots only Round Nose Bullets in 156 and 160 grain weights. It shoots only 2250 FPS out the muzzle.

But it works ok.
2018 #1 Ant. Buck by .com/photos/156296479@N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

What does it do that a 7mm-08 won’t?




P

I like the 120 Barnes TTSX in my 6.5-06 and Creedmoors. Very accurate, hammers deer and pigs. I killed these four today and yesterday. All dead right there.

Thinking about setting up Daughter #1 with a 6.5-06AI for just that purpose. A .280AI and 7mm RM are the other leading contenders. My 6.5-06AI is a heavy barrel and I'd love to have a sporter-weight.



.25-06 brass is what I use as well - run it through the 6.5-06AI die to size the neck and fireform. Fireform loads are a Hornady max charge of H4831SC for the 6.5-06 with a 140g A-MAX. WW brass and CCI 200 primer for 2760fps in my 1-8 twist, 24" barrel.

Hunting loads are a 130g Swift Scirocco II at 3161fps using IMR 7828SSC. Given a MPBR zero for a 6" circle (277 yd zero, 328 yd MPBR), it is down only 41.3" at 600 with 13.4" drift at 10mph xwind and 2463fps/1751fpe retained.

By contrast, a 7mm RM/150g Nosler LRAB @ 3200fps is down 40.5" with 2466fps/2026fpe retained. A 6" MPBR yields a 279 yd zero and 329 yd MPBR. Drift with a 10mph xwind is almost identical at 13.8"

For a mild-shooting, hard-hitting cartridge, the 6.5-06AI is hard to beat and the standard 6.5-06 isn't far behind.at 3090fps with a 24" barrel (Hodgdon data for the 130g Scirocco II).



One advantage of the AI form is the .25-06 stamped cartridges fire-formed to 6.5-06AI cannot be loaded in a .25-06 chamber. THat, more than any other, is why I went AI. Don't want someone trying that after I'm gone.

If I was building another 6.5 for myself, a standard 6.5-06 would be a great choice, but I'd probably go AI again for the same reason stated above. Like you say, coyotes to elk. And I'd add a few p-dogs, too.

I was bored one day so I studied sierras reloading book.

Man what a phone book that is!

Anyways looks like the 25/06 was ballistic wise a superior non belted magnum of them all.

Me thinks the 6.5 06 might be a wee bit better........but the ammo.......I have forgot the ammo .

Guyotrd, it sounds like you have a winner there. Shoot the heck out of the rifle before you rebarrel it. You might like it fine the way it is. I have mucked up more than one perfectly good rifle by trying to improve it. I have lots of rifles, but the one I took to Colorado in November was a "beater" Sears Model 53 in 30-06 I bought from a friend who is too old to hunt any more.

Marty

guyotrd,

Interesting.

I have been a semi-loony 6.5 fan for a while. Have owned and hunted with them in cartridges from the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer to 26 Nosler, and right now have eight 6.5 rifles in seven chamberings in the same range (two are 6.5x55's). Have also owned and hunted with a bunch of others, including a custom 6.5-06 with a 26" barrel. It's best load used various 140's with a charge of H1000 a grain over the pressure-tested max listed in Hodgdon's data, which got around 2950 fps.

Using the common 25-30 fps per inch of barrel length, that works out to just about what you're getting--which is about 50 fps faster than the velocity I'm getting from the 22" barrel of my present 6.5 Creedmoor, with Sierra's max published maximum charge of IMR4451 and the 143-grain ELD-X. Maybe my 6.5 Creedmoor has a "fast" barrel, or maybe many new powders have been designed around the incredibly successful 6.5 Creedmoor. But there it is.

Whether the 6.5-06 is the greatest all-around non-dangerous game cartridge depends on your perspective, but in my experience a bunch of rounds would qualify., even the ho-hum .308 Winchester. Have now seen the 6.5 Creedmoor take big game from pronghorns to big elk quite handily, with a variety of bullets. Have also seen the same thing with other cartridges, including the .308 and even the .375 H&H.

What all this boils down to is just about every rifle loonies like to think they've found the "perfect" cartridge, for at least one year, or maybe 6 months. In fact that quest defines "rifle loony." As a result, we keep trying different cartridges, apparently in the hope that one will finally change our life and end the search. So far I've yet to see a real rifle loony stick to their latest perfect choice. In fact, based on the evidence of the Campfire Classifieds, many move on to something else before they ever hunt (or even fire) with their previous choice.

Good luck with your perfect non-dangerous big game rifle!

As has been said:

The world is full of all-around cartridges... all-around hunters are harder to find.

Shoot a 140 grain bullet with a .600+ BC.

I know Walmart is where I shop for all my guns, ammo and reloading needs! Said no one.

Some don’t move on, they wake up one day and realize they own a bunch of rifles. I have a journal to keep straight which ones are sighted in, need sighting in, and rifles that need worked on. It’s hell to be a rifle looney!

Which is significant past 600 yards, but how often is that an issue?

You asked, I answered.

The 6.5-06 I shoot is on a Ruger Hawkeye action with an E.R. Shaw stainless 24" light sporter weight Bbl. 1/8 twist. It is deadly accurate using the Barnes 120gr TSX @ 3277 fps & IMR 4350 powder. Sighted 1 1/2" high at 100yds puts it dead on at 225yds. I live & shoot at an elevation of 7630 here in SW Colorado. '. It will drive these bullets completely thru elk. I have my own range & have shot this load out to 400 measured yds with no problem. It gets there right now. Have shot beyond that range at rocks but have not measured the range. It has to be well beyond 500. This rifle will drive 140gr bullets to 2950 fps with no strain according to my chronograph. I use primarily once fired 25-06 brass. Using 270 works but requires an extra step to trim to length.This cartridge comes in between the 260Rem/6.5CM & the 264 mag. It is a delight to shoot. Same velocity as the 6.5PRC at a fraction of the cost. Unlimited inexpensive once fired brass which is what I use. Will take heavy big game with moderate recoil. Much more enjoyable than my heavier cal rifle & takes the same game. As to my 30-06 & 338 mag they have set for years with out being shot. Heavy recoil, no thank you any more.

Great feedback - and i suppose i am a rifle loon

On walmart , i guess i could forget my ammo as i approach 58 but i might also forget my gun, i just sold my 338 wm and 300 wsm and am having my a custom built in 6.5 cm with the proceeds, not because i might forget ammo but when i am too lazy to reload i can buy hornady awesome ammo for 32 a box,

The 6.5 cm gives all the joy of the swede plus some with cheap and available bullets and ammo and is a pleasure on long sessions on the range

What that 6.5-06 gives me over the cm on the 400 yd shots on elk is a little more margin for misreading the wind or a rushed shot

I plan on a pig hunt this summer in texas and my son and i will shoot the 6.5s if i can talk him out of his ar 15 223

We are used to freezing on 3rd and 4th season in the high country every year so texas will be nice

I kill all kinds stuff with my 7mm-08. I can find ammo in lots of stores. Enjoy your 6.5-06!

Since having my brain infected by MD's writings I own a 257 Roberts, 7x57 and a 6.5x55. I reload for all three and keep one of the cheap Allen brand elastic cartridge holders on both of the Ruger stocks (257 UL and 6.5x55 Hawkeye African) with nine rounds of my hunting loads. The CZ 550 in 7x57 has a Monte Carlo stock so two boxes of reloads are always stored in the dedicated rifle case pocket for that rig. Haven't forgotten ammo through the years but take the mentioned precautions just in case.

Well actually...there are quite a few guys that say that. Most of them shoot plastic stocked rifles in common chamberings, probably have "blister pack" Nikon on top of it.

How crude...now if Walmart would start stocking GOOD 8x57is ammo at a better proce than Graf's...

6.5-06, 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoor, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. Something to type about in the wee hours of the morning while a pork shoulder gets finished up is about it.

I happen to like my lefthanded McMillan Compact in edge, the black teflon coated metal, the #2 Hart has been stellar and it has a nice trigger. If it was chambered in 280 Remington I'd be talking about how great 180 Scenars are at 2700 fps. But since it is a 6.5-06, I'll wax on about the greatness of 140 vlds. I find I am worrying less about rifles and more about how many hunts I can squeeze in.

At least I am very sure my 6.5x47 Lapua is far better than any 6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08. Those other two don't come close. You know, case design and all that.

Yes, efficiency and inherent accuracy in case design are what really matters.

That, and a pill with high SD.

Well said, especially the part about getting more hunting in!

At the end of the day I like shooting most everything and honestly I don’t feel like anything I’ve ever carried really limited me much either.

y thoughts exactly Kurt. I'm waaay more about trips than I am wares, always have been.

I do like my 6.5 ai, never have forgot my ammo.... Grin

I may be a kill-joy and I am not trying to create a conflict, but I do always try to interject truth and facts into the discussion.
Here are some facts that most of the worshipers of the demi-god called "BC" seem to be unaware of.

If we look at a BC of about .480 (which would be many of the bullets you can fire from a, 30-06 some of the good 7MMs or some of the flat base 270s) and we start that bullet out at 2900 FPS with a zero at 300 yards and we track it's trajectory out to 900 yards we will find the impact is 24 feet low if we held the cross-hair dead on that 900 yard target.

If we look at a BC of about .600 (like some of the better 6.5 MM bullets) and we start that bullet out at 2900 FPS (which a 6.5-06 may do and a 264 Win Mag can do with no problem) with a zero at 300 yards and we track it's trajectory out to 900 yards we will find the impact is 20.5 feet low if we held the cross-hair dead on.

So at 900 yards the difference is 3.5 feet. 42 inches. That's it and that's all. If we look at the highest of the 30 cals, 7mms and the 270s for BC, we get numbers in the .49 to .525 range and that makes for a difference at 900 yards of only about 2 feet 3 inches. 27 inches! That's all! (but note, some 270 Winchesters , all 270 Weatherbys and Short mags, and the long barreled 30-06s, as well as the 300 mags and the 7MM Mag can all drive their bullets faster then most of the new 6.5MM shells can, so at 900 yards the difference would be even less then those I show here)

If we are speaking about hunting (or combat sniping) we have to acknowledge that we have no advantage at all, of one rifle or cartridge over any other, if you can't make a 1st round hit from a cold bore. That means if we had a 30-06 with 1/3 MOA capability and a '6.5anything' with a 1/3 MOA capability, both can hold a group at 900 that will get the job done. If we zeroed both rifles spot on at 900 yards and asked any reader here to make a 1st shot cold-bore hit 100% of the time on an 8" target with no misses ever, even with all conditions known, on a groomed field, with the exact distance known and no tricky angles and no tricky wind patterns, what percentage of us can do it?

So if you can't do that 100% of the time you have no ethical reason to try it on an un-wounded game animal.

If you are in the small percent of men or women who can hold that well, and break the sear that precisely, at that range, 100% of the time, you have the skill to do it with any round or rifle accurate enough to put 100% of it's shots into 8" at 900 yards, so BC is not really anything to worry about in the 1st place. At lest not the difference in BCs from the standard 30-06, 7MM or 270, as compared to the new super-slick 6.5 MMs.
We are not talking about comparing a 150 grain flat nose 30-30 to a .600 BC here------ or some pistol bullet.

If you can hold well enough to make a hit you can hold it.

If you can't don't shoot, even if you could miss with a round that shot 2 feet flatter.

It's just a large load of salesmanship as a rule.

Is the 6.5-06 a real good tool for hunting?
Yes!

Just like MANY other rounds are too.
A better question is "are you the "king of all non-dangerous game shooters"?

This is 98% about the shooter and 2% about the tool he is carrying.

I'm a yuge 25/06 fan myself, but would be more than happy to slum a 6.5 version.

Not trying to create conflict here, but since when did pontificating about your opinions become "truth and facts"?

Szihn, very good post. Few hunters should even be thinking about extended range shooting at BG. I hunt in Utah on a CWMU ranch and we have a very strict policy, if you wound an animal, however slightly, that is not recovered you are done hunting. Period. Therefore, we have few hunters willing to take ify shots.

Roger.

Allow me to rephrase:

What will the 6.5-06 do that a 7mm-08 won’t, using less powder, that is significant inside of 500 yards?




P

If you like it, mission accomplished. Anything you do or buy will be picked at and criticized here by the disgruntled, envious, and other varieties of jackholes. For maximum enjoyment, keep it to yourself, go forth and slay.

Sounds like a nice one. Enjoy.

I'm not what most consider a loonie ,but I do have more than 2-3 in my safe.Every one has their favorites but to say any one caliber/chambering is the perfect one I have to run the BS flag up.It might be perfect for that one individual,but with a little shopping around and experience,that same person might find another just as perfect.

I have killed elk, and more than a few, with .308, 7 Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby mag, 44 mag, 50 cal muzzle loader, 30-06, 30-30,probably a few I have forgotten and most of them with varying bullet weights. From 10 yards to 400 yards or so. I do hunt deer and antelope with a 6.5 Swede and .243.I could probably kill elk with them,as others do.

I can't say I have seen any difference in the killing ability of any and I could pickup any of them and go out and kill elk,deer, antelope., but realizing a few of them have distance parameters

What will the 7-08 do that a 6.5 Creedmore, .260 Remington, or Swede won't, using a lighter bullet with less recoil, that is significant inside of 500 yards?

That would have been my answer as well...

Cartridges are more alike than different, and most are equal inside 500 yards on most game.

I wish the 6.5-06 of been a factory round but its not, and thats the number one reason I would not have it or any other wildcat because if you fly and a bag with your ammo does not show up you will be looking for a different rifle. I also don't think there is magic in the 6.5 bullet and I have been hunting with a .264 Win Mag for the past 30 plus years. Do I think it's good yes but not magic.
If I was really wanting a 6.5-06 performance I would buy a .270 Win. rifle and I doubt you can tell a difference in the field between the two.
Why do I say this, I sold my .270 Win because it jammed one day and lost confidence in it and was young and thought I needed a Magnum and in 30 plus years there has never once been a shot I would not of taken game that I could not of done with a .270 Win.
Now if you want something thats just different thats ok too, but just know for 99.9% of your hunting there will be little difference in these two, paper ballistic does not kill game but good shooting does.
Good Hunting
.

Agreed.

Or I'd build a 6.5 PRC, a 6.5-06 in factory guise.

But it's all fun and games, so a guy should just do what he wants and brag about it on the intra-net to the applause and criticism of complete strangers!

The glaring omission in this discussion of why BC is not important is wind drift. Wind drift is the one indeterminate variable that long-range shooters deal with. And THE major source of error in long range shooting is estimation of wind speed and direction between the shooter and target. A higher BC lessens wind drift and lessens the effects of errors in estimating wind speed and direction.

Of course anyone who actually shoots long range knows this.

^
^
^
This is true, but again is is not near as large a gain as most seem to think it is. It does lessen the drift.
To use the above example again if we look at the drift of the .480 bullet at 2800 FPS from the muzzle (again think of an old fashioned 30-06 as an example) and we fire it in a full value wind, the drift at 1000 yards is 13.59 MOA. The .600 bullet fired at the same speed the drift at 1000 yards is 10.04
So all the hoopla aside, in the real world it's still only a 21% advantage. About 1/5th less drift.

Now if you dial for wind you would click another 1-2 clicks with the 30-06 over the 6.5-06.

If you hold for wind you would hold 3.55 MOA more which is about 1 mil.

So if you can hold well enough to make a difference it is no harder to hold 1 mil more with a 30-06 then it is to hold 1 mil less with the 6.5MM. but it's still the shooter and his skill that makes the difference, not the drift.

So I think the point is made...Is there anything wrong with a small ballistic advantage?
NO! NOT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

But the gun-rags and the internet articles of today try to convince the shooting public that if they buy "the latest greatest wizz-bang uber modern space gun" they are going to shoot better.

No..........they are not!
Not at all.
Not even a little.

They re going to shoot as well as their skill will allow.

If I were assigned to make a squad of the best marksman I was able to make out of 10 average shooters/hunters and I had a budget of, let's say, $2000 per shooter, I know I would NOT buy them new rifles in a "super slick High BC (or BS) round" I would spend $2000 on each shooter for ammunition components and a few new barrels, and put them through a 6 month course of training.

I am not against any of these shells. I made guns to earn my living. I want to make them for those that ask me (or I did, until I stopped taking more work because of my age and the length of my back-log) because I want their business.
But I am not willing to let them believe a lie and just go along with it, so I can make some money. Doing that makes them distrust me later when they learn the truth, and they will!

When I make such a rifle for someone I tell them the truth of what I am making for them, what they can expect, what it WILL NOT do, and I want them to know they can trust me to be square with them.

The unvarnished truth is that spending $2000 on ammo and maybe a barrel job or 2 is going to make them a FAR better shooter then spending that money on a new gun that shoots a slimmer more slippery bullet, but didn't do a thing to increase their skill.

It's the shooter, not the rifle that matters.
98% the man and 2% the gun

Probably not much, but I’m not calling it the king of anything.





P

Missed the point entirely. Which is, estimating wind speed and direction is always imprecise and always a source of error because wind is not constant in speed or direction all the way out to the target. So it's not a matter of "simply holding 1 mil more with a .30-06." It's a matter of lessening the effects of your errors in estimating wind speed and direction.

And the better BC reduces the effects of your errors in estimating wind speed and direction by reducing wind drift. So if you want to see the difference in a bullet with .a 480 BC vs. one with .600 BC, run some different scenarios to see what the effects are when your wind speed estimate is off by 5 (or insert your # here) mph.

And using the OP's load of 2800, which, too me, is a bit on the slow side.....

I'm running 130 VLD's at 3150 in a 26" tube in a 6.5-284......5 MOA of 10 mph wind at 900.......

that or... a factory available brass 6.5-284



They all sound like way too much gun for many folks that don't have call to to shoot over 200 yds ..

...a pussycat 6.5 Grendel would be sufficient for many folks needs....??..

I sure wish the ubercool mini Howa Grendel had been around some yrs ago ...

are we ready for the “bullets matter more than headstamp” yet?

Some people are racists against 6.5’s. 🤪

Only if we can pry our cold dead buns off the couch......

LOL, that's a mighty wide paint brush young sprout.

Agreed to an extent. Our fellas had .500 BC bullets 10-15 years ago in 300 Wins and thought they were crazy to have such a powerful combo as compared to the older 7.62 LR rounds, now they’re getting into the .700’s and think how the hell did they get by without them... it isn’t because they are less skilled shooters, it’s because the added BC helps with a wind call which even the best folks I’ve seen aren’t perfect and I think what Smokepole is saying that all else being equal he will take the higher BC’ed bullet and enjoy a little less critical bullet.

I like BC on a bullet but like a lot of others here don’t seek the highest BC bullet above all else, but if two perform similar on animals I can’t see a good common sense reason to not use them.

Anyway you look at it, we have equipment that is far superior to what our dads had. I’ve compared the 147 ELD at 2775 from my little 6.5 to a 300 Win with a 180 Partition at 3050.. kinda hard to really say one or the other is a better deer killer when at distance the little squeak really sneaks up on the old 300.

I’m not changing out for all the other latest but they are pretty danged capable.

Is the 6.5-06 the king of all non-dangerous game cartridges?

It isn't in my mind, but my preferred long action 6.5mm bore cartridge is the long obsolete and slightly slower 256 Newton.

Robert Frost once wrote the following: "Two roads diverged in a wood and I - I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.". Compared to the 270, the 6.5-06 is clearly the road less traveled and if that makes a difference to you, that's all that really matters.

I owned a couple of 6.5-06 back in the days before the VLD components bullets came on the scene and came to believe that they were little more than inconvenient 270s. That may have changed with the advent of VLD bullets, but how often are you likely to shoot anything that is beyond the effective range of a 270 loaded with comparable bullets?

maybe it's about not having to use a 270 with comparable bullets.....

They are all great, put them all in a hat, pull one out, go hunting!!!

Then there is the 280?

Schizn writes a lot of good stuff!

Mule deers post is also spot on.......like he was talking to me.

The thing I wanna know is............

So U can hit the beast at 900 yards.....great.

How you gonna find it?

The 7 08 is a short action........I like levers. So there is benefit there over the 06 case.

But like mule deer said I get a new caliber and never really try it out before I get another!

I have pretty much decided I can't shoot very far. So for me I like the 308 win or 300 savage for general hunting,

The 45/70 for close work.

The 30/06 , iif I am gonna pack a bolt action. This is because I have a husky action.....very light.

If the 6.5-06 is King, my 6.5 PRC is 'Prince Rupert Creedleymoor'......

good pic h m 22

Huntsman always has good game pics. I especially like his rimfire shots.

The OP appeared to be excited about his new rifle, but that seems to have been lost in all the gack.

I don't know what that means.

The OP specified 600 yards, so why the 500 yard restriction? Why not limit it to 400 yards, or even 300? And why limit it to 300 when a "good" hunter could "get closer"?

Trying to justify any cartridge as the 'best' or 'king' or some other pinnacle superlative is a fool's game as it relies on judgement calls based on specific criteria that vary from person to person and situation to situation.

I like a variety of cartridges in the 25 to 30 caliber range. Some excel at one thing, others at other things. My .257 Roberts is a superb choice for long range, low volume varminting, much more so IMHO than my 7mm RM - but the 7mm RM is an easy choice when it comes to elk. My .30's are nice but to match the trajectory and wind drift of my 6.5-06AI you have to get into much heavier bullets and a lot more recoil.

Over the last few days I ran the numbers for a bunch of different cartridges and loads and came up with several that stood out, using 600 yards with drop, drift and retained velocity and energy - along with recoil and component availability - as the criteria of interest. Factory ammo and rifle availability were secondary as the plan is to reload and, if necessary, rebarrel and/or restock. The goal was to help select cartridge that would be suited for Daughter #1 for elk and down that would provide more reach than her current .308 Win load. Her hubby and I handload, she does not. She is petite and recoil sensitive so a fairly lightweight rifle and relatively light recoil were important.

Using 7000 feet above sea level and MPBR zeroes for a 6" target, 10mph xwind, the loads below were the most interesting. Daughter's current .308 Win load is listed first for comparison.

.308 Win / 130g TTSX @ 3045fps (Daughter's current .308 Win load)
600yds = -57.4", 1929fps, 1074fpe, 26.7" drift

7mm RM / 150g Long Range AB @ 3200fps
600 yds = -41.2", 2427fps, 1961fpe, 14.7" drift

6.5-06AI / 130g Scirocco II @ 3161fps (my 6.5-06AI load)
600yds = -41.9", 2425fps, 1697fpe, 14.2" drift

6.5 PRC / 130g Scirocco II @ 3050fps
600yds = -46.6", 2331fps, 1568fpe, 14.9" drift

.280AI / 162g ELD-X @ 3000fps
600yds = -47.3", 2350fps, 1987fpe, 13.7" drift

.280AI / 168g Long Range AB @ 2950fps
600yds = -49.9", 2294fps, 1963fpe, 14.4" drift

.270 Win / 150g Long Range AB @ 2850fps
600yds = -55.7", 2183fps, 1587fpe, 16.0" drift

I was leaning toward finding a lefty Savage and rebarreling to 6.5-06AI or 6.5PRC. Finding a lefty 7mm RM or .280AI would also have been acceptable. What I found was a lefty Remington M700 of 1975 vintage, chambered for .270 Win. With the 150g LRAB loaded to 2850fps it does what I was looking for with a hair under a calculated 18 ft-lbs recoil. Her current .308 load is at 15.8 ft-lbs but in terms of retained energy (1500 ft-lbs) the .270 will do at 655 yards what the .308 will do at 395.

Nosler offers the 150g LRAB in .270 Win factory ammo, but we plan to reload. If for some reason the rifle doesn't shoot, it will get a new barrel - possibly in 6.5-06AI or .280AI to take advantage of the wider bullet selection for those calibers.

Is the 6.5 the 'king'? Depends.

It means some will shoot anything else, to keep from shooting a frigging 270..... If it ain't clear now, ask Ingwe.

Or you could rebarrel to a faster-twist 270....the 6.5-06 is never going to beat the 270 with like bullets, loaded to same pressure.

There is a nice Remington 700 in the classifieds, a 6.5-06

Damn that's nice.

The 'problem' with the .270 is the selection of high BC bullets is not as wide as with the 6.5 and 28 calibers and, with the notable exception of the Nosler 150g LRAB, the .27 bullets seem to have lower B.C. values than the 6.5 and 28 caliber options. Particularly for bullets I consider best suited for game (read no thin-skinned bullets);

Oh, that makes it clearer for me.

As I have aged, taking the path of least, or at least lesser, resistance makes more sense to me now than it did in my youth.

Perhaps this is a "cool" verses "practical" situation. I shoot a couple of rifles chambered in 256 Newton, a cartridge that has a high "cool" factor and a very low "practical" factor.

None of my lever guns have a high 'practical' factor for my hunting needs. .22LR. .44 Mag, .30-30, .375 Win, .45-70. Love to shoot them all, though. Their 'fun' factor far outweighs the low 'practical' factor.



Still scratching my head as to why I have 3 AR-type rifles, .223/5.56, .300BLK and .308 Win. Hate chasing brass, hate the ergos. And why do I have so many handguns? The AR's are practical if civilization as we know it today collapses, the semi-auto handguns are for small game (.22's) and defense and the revolvers mostly for home defense and fun. Guess that is good enough reason.

You might never forget to pack you ammo for an out of state hunting trip, but I have loaned my spare rifle to guys that did twice.

One guy had traveled from OH to the high plains of eastern CO and when he was unpacking at the motel, he discovered that he didn't have any 6.5x55 ammo and there was none to be found anywhere he called closer than a six hour round trip away. He was all in dither about it, so to calm him down, I loaned him my S&W C in 30-06 and he punched his tag somewhere around Wray the next afternoon. It is a situation that probably doesn't happen often, but it does happen on occasion and having the option to buy common factory ammo when it does is a real benefit.

Of the 5 cartridges that you shoot in lever guns, I would categorize only the 375 as being impractical, because of the lack of factory ammo and components. There are few more practical cartridges than the 30-30 and few better if it used within its performance envelope.

Long ago I started taking two rifles when the distances were measured in hours.

That doesn't help, though, if you forget to pack any ammo and have oddball chamberings.


Got to camp one year and discovered that since I had swapped one of the rifles at the last minute I had .257 Roberts ammo for my .45-70. Fortunately, the other rifle and ammo were good to go.

I think the slow-twist 270 is slowly changing, as it is with every other popular caliber. You are correct that the "tougher" high-BC bullets are fairly limited in the 270 right now, but still, a faster twist isn't going to "hurt" anything, and a specific throat on a rebarrel would likely give you the accuracy you are after with a specific bullet. That was all I was getting at. No one is going to force you to shoot "target" bullets at elk. I understand it is a religious thing with you....

When I pack for a trip, I start with.......

Tags

Guns

Ammo

Money

Everything else........

I agree a faster twist won't hurt anything, but it won't improve current bullet selection either.

As to 'target' bullets, my preference is practical based on experience and the ranges at which I typically shoot (all under 500 yards with all but 3 or 4 under 350).

Yeah, ol Rupert does look princely, reminds me of the prince in "Braveheart."

I'm a believer in check-lists. More than one private pilot has killed himself and his passengers by failing to use a pre-flight check-list and forgetting to turn on the pitot tube and/or carburetor heat when required.

This is a fabulous cartridge.

I have a nice 6.5/06 built on a Mark X action I need to pass along to somebody. It is very accurate with <100 round count on a 26 inch barrel. I built and broke it in about 8 years ago, then got distracted by other things. I'd probably sell it for a little more than I've got into the barrel, because most people won't like the stock, and there are some flaws in the blue.

You aren't likely getting all the BC out of the 150 LRAB now, with a 1:10 at 7K and 2850fps. And why the concern with 600 if all the shots are closer? Strange.

all calibers and all the different cartridges are great to shoot and hunt with and I also use plenty different loony stuff, but to be honest just the lowly 30-06 will still do it all just fine.

Very interesting campfire conversation here - and I am covetous of Huntsman22's 6.5 PRC build. I posted this to share my excitement over my new build and put a question mark in the title because I do not definitively state the 6.5-06 is the King but enjoy the debate, learning more about this great hobby in this forum and it is certainly an overlooked cartridge. Everyone is drawn to this sport for different reasons and none are invalid as long as enjoyment is derived. I personally like building the ammo, selecting the right rifle, cartridge, bullet and scope - leading to the challenge of taking difficult game in conditions that can be quite demanding.

I started building this rifle because I was shooting hundreds of rounds a year at the range with my 300WSM to practice for the annual Elk hunt in the mountains where over the last 4 years the animals/shots have been between 225yds and 430yds, (except the year we only had cow tags and a big bull walked close enough in dark timber where if I had a bayonet on my rifle I might have killed him). I think I damaged my right shoulder and was getting tired of the recoil hence the need for something lighter. I inquired about having the 300WSM Sako converted to a 6.5 PRC which probably is a better Elk 6.5 for these long shots - but the magazine was just a very small amount too short.

I observed when I first got the rifle that the ballistics were very close to the 270 only with better BC's, less recoil and I like the 6.5 mystique. Having a requirement of such long shots on big animals in harsh conditions and the desire for a great deal of practice with my older shoulder limits the choices somewhat for me.

The very first time both my son and I punched our Elk tags were on the 4th day of freezing all day with no animals sighted, when on the last day of the hunt, late in the afternoon before going home empty handed and when it had warmed up a bit - a herd of about 15 came out of the timber where the guide chased them out, running at full speed in a valley about 40 yds below the perch we were on and 240 yds horizontal distance. I called out the last one was mine and for my son to take the second to last. I had my 300 WSM and my son had the 7Mag I gave him, A hale of bullets erupted and both of us emptied our 3 rounds in the magazine and he was fast enough to get a 4th reloaded and shot. He put two in the shoulder of his cow and I had one in the shoulder and one in the back hind quarter of mine. We were shooting Partitions and did not even know we both got one until we climbed down the cliff face and found them both in the tall grass about 30 yds apart. While we were butchering them the guide neglected to tie his horse up and the horse ran off - we tried to approach him but he kept putting more distance on us and finally disappeared. It was about 30 minutes before sunset and we were about 5 miles from camp in real extreme country. Fortunately when we got back to where our horses were tied up the guides horse had returned there instead of heading back to the base camp - so none of us had to walk out. This was one of the best days of my life - sharing this experience with my son.

I understand that 6.5 CM's are killing Elk all the time but the long and sometimes rushed shots in the wind we have had experience with, still have me doubting if the 6.5 is best for these conditions. It seems like the conversation in general has migrated to very long shots and BC's. I am relatively new to hunting Elk and intuitively it seems that I should be thinking about Taylor knockdown power and massive energy transfer like what a 300 or 338 gives to make sure the animal gets the ethical kill it deserves when the shot is not perfect. I will try out the 6.5-06 next October then decide based on the results, whether to put a second barrel on my 6.5 CM switch in 7 SAUM, 7 WSM or back to 300 WSM. Perhaps practice all year in with the Creedmoor and then put a Proof Carbon for the bigger caliber (save weight), sight it in, take a dozen shots and take it on the hunt. I have posted pictures of our great day with both the animals.

Tags, guns, ammo, money, clean underwear. Then everything else.

I have a lifetime supply of .375 Win brass and bullets. Love shooting it but bolts almost always beat levers for my hunting needs and wants.

Agreed... pass the PRC.

Nothing strange about it. 600 yards is the maximum at which we practice because it is the longest range available where we shoot. We use both steel plates and 108mm (4.25") clay pigeons for targets at 500 and 600 yards.

The .277" 150g LRAB measures 1.429" overall and 1.287" from the base of the bullet to the base of the tip.

The Berger bullet stability calculator is available here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. It agrees with you that with a 1-10 twist, 7000' and 2850fps the B.C. is lower than the published .625 and suggests a corrected B.C. of .623 - a difference not worth mentioning. At 2900fps it says the bullet "is flying with full stability".

But that is using the full 1.429" bullet length. Because the tip is much less dense than the metal and is sharply tapered, it is reasonable to use a length somewhere between the overall length and the length from the bullet base to the base of the tip. Iterative calculations show the bullet is fully stable at 2850fps with an adjusted length of 1.426". That is just .003" shorter and is 99.8% of the overall length. There isn't much tip left in the remaining .003".

If an adjusted length of 1.411" is used (87.5% of the tip length included), the bullet is fully stable at 2595fps. My guess is that is a rather generous allowance.
At 1.422"" (95% of the tip length included) the bullet is fully stable at 2780fps. All that is excluded at this length is the last .007" of the tip of the tip - and there isn't much there.

In short, I don't anticipate any issues with the 1-10 twist. If there is, the easy solution is to bump the velocity to 2900fps.

King? Worldwide use may suggest the 7mm Rem Mag is probably the holder of that title. Does anything and more than the 6.5-06 and enjoys the popularity of buying ammunition any place around the globe. From 100 lbs - 1,500 lbs of game animal, probably none have been used more successfully than the 7mm Rem Mag. Hard to beat and with today's bullet choices as it is better than ever.

I think if you look into it, 30-06 sales are more. Last time I saw a chart, it looked 30-06 ammo out sold 7mm mag.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/best_selling_rifle_cartridges.htm

This. Whether it's liked it not, every other cartridge is measured up to it.

I won't discount the 30-06 as being up at the top in game fields by North American hunters, but in today's long range performance the 7mm Rem Mag shoots much flatter and drifts quite a bit less than the 06 while retaining better downrange numbers all of which is not much to worry about at 300-400-500 yards when comparing. I think you'll find that worldwide the 6.5mm and 7mm is used a great deal more than the 7.62mm. I would however say the 308 Win may be more popular around the world's game fields than the 30-06 is at this time. I think you will find that the 7mm Rem Mag stole a great deal of the 30-06's thunder post it's 1962 introduction.

Please post your source concerning world wide use or is it your opinion. One can find several cartridges that out shoot the 7mag in terms of flat shooting, wind drift etc. I doubt world wide the sales volume noted in the study I posted is much different ,but I will qualify that in that is my opinion

Yes, but from a purely practical perspective, folks are unlikely to find .375 WIN factory ammo and/or reloading components on dealers' shelves very frequently. I'm a 25 WSSM shooter and like the .375 WIN it is another virtually orphaned cartridge that works well within its niche, but is impractical due to the scarcity of factory ammo and reloading components. Lately however, WSSM shooters have been helped by Hornady's decision to make regular runs of component brass for the .223 and .243 WSSM and won't have to depend on Winchester/Olin for an occasional/seasonal run.

Guyotrd,

Congratulations on owning a great rifle!

I went a similar, but slightly different, path with my 6.5.

I had a long action and stock on hand, found a Bartlien barrel at 50% off retail, and Redneck here on the 'Fire put it all together for me, chambering it in 6.5-.280AI. It's no lightweight, but man, does it shoot!
I named it "Holmes" in honor of the late, great John Holmes since the cartridge looks like a very long 6.5CM.

Is it the perfect rifle for all things? No, but it shoots 100gr Ballistic Tips at >3,500fps into tiny 5-shot groups and has shot well under MOA groups all the way to 600yds. I simply haven't shot it past 600yet, so I can't address it at more than that. I have made called head-shots on a life-size prairie dog silhouette at 400yds, and shot a nice .5MOA group on a turkey silhouette at 600 yards with Barnes 127gr LRX.

Yup, we're a bunch of Loonies and I like it that way.

Enjoy your rifle!

Ed

Well I see that the 7mm RM is 7th on that list with 30-06 at #3. Not sure what that encompasses outside of the U.S. By the same token he has this to say about the 7mm Rem Mag's popularity.

7mm Rem Mag Popularity

One things for sure both qualify as "King" over the 6.5-06 when it comes to a track record of dropping significantly more game around the globe. I do however like the 6.5-06 but in truth it does nothing better than a 270 Win in the game field other than in someone's preferential mind.

Wife shoots a 6.5-06 and it has quickly became one of my favorite rounds. I could be perfectly happy to hunt with a 6.5-06 or a 7mm-08

I bought my 6.5-06 not long ago. I really like it, a Dumoulin action, Boyd Stock, Douglas Barrel.

260Remguy Just an FYI Sportsman's Warehouse and Bass Pro always have 6.5X55 ammo that is where I always bought mine, and in the last week I have seen it in both those stores and in Cabelas.

Yes, but that doesn't do a person any good if he shows up at his hunting destination without ammo and without enough time to have ammo shipped to him or to physically travel to and back from the nearest stocking retailer with inventory on the shelf.

The specific situation that I cited occurred in Wray, CO. While Wray is the Yuma County Seat, it is a small town, less than 3,000 people and no 6.5x55 ammo. The closest Cabela's, in Sidney, NE, was out of stock and the nearest 6.5x55 ammo that the guy who borrowed my 30-06 was able to find was in the Denver metro area, a 350+/- mile round trip.

EDIT: If the 6.5x55 shooter had had a 243, 25-06, 270, 30-30, 308, 30-06, 7mm RM, or 300 WM he could have bought factory ammo and punched his tag with his own rifle, not one borrowed from a kindly stranger who had the foresight to pack a spare rifle and ammo.

Now that DO have real merit.

I have a Swede but that doesn’t change the facts.

I suspect the 6.5-06 would also be in the (s o l ) same ‘outta luck’ situation.


Jerry

I guarantee it would be in the same boat.

I prefer a Danner size 12 wide as a long range solution...sooner or later I'll either get within respectable 8x57 wacking range or I won't. Of course everybody knows that a 114 year old cartridge with no bullets readily available with a BC over .450 is pretty useless up against modern "evolved" game...

^
^
^
^

I agree the .375 Win is not practical for most shooters because of the factory ammo situation, let alone trying to find a rifle so chambered. Finding components is also a problem.

Starline lists brass as available in quantities of 250 to 1000 and I recommend anyone who is short on brass buy it now. Bullets are somewhat problematic - Hornady discontinued their 220g, which my rifle favored, and Sierra 200g bullets are out of stock many/most places. (Sierra still makes them occasionally, so get your backorder in now.) Les Volmer makes 220g bullets with the same profile as the original Hornady bullet but note that in my experience the safe powder charges for the Hornady bullet are much too high for use with the Volmer bullet - redeveloping the load is definitely in order. Barnes still offers their 255g Original and Speer still offers their 235g. Have not tried the Barnes but the Speer requires some special reloading techniques due to its length and ogive. There are other bullets available that may work, especially if the shooter is willing to use their tube-mag rifle as a two-shooter - one in the chamber and one n the mag.

In terms of general practicality, I considered giving my Marlin 375 to a son-in-law that resides in Iowa. The .375 Win is legal for deer there (but last time I checked the .38-55 was not - go figure!). I finally decided against it because he does not reload. For me, however, the .375 Win is very effective out to 200 to 250 yards. With a max rise of 3", the 235g Speer @ 2084fps and 6500ft altitude is down 3" at 205 yards with 1698fps and 1504fpe. At 300 yards it is down 19.7" with 1538fpes and 1235fpe, which, according to Speer, is approaching the low end of where the bullet should expand.

Seems to me that if a man does his homework, and assembles the variables together in a rifle he likes and shoots well and has confidence in, and can maintain a monogamous hunting relationship with it season after season - then he has taken the road less traveled. At least on the 24HourCampfire. My hat is off to the OP for finding his huckleberry.

Last time I saw 6.5-06 ammo on the shelf was on a planet in the outer reaches of the Andromeda galaxy - and that was some years ago. Last time I was there they only had 6.5 CM.

Last time I depended on what I could find on the shelves of a local store, I had just purchased a brand new Marlin .30-30 for $159.99. And that was back when they used good wood. It was 1980 I think.

Not that I need another rifle to NOT hunt with (last two years have been way too busy), but I always though a 6.5-06 would be on my short list. Matter of fact, if yer gonna wildcat anyway, I'd roll 6.5-06 A.I.
Don't need it. Got a .25-06, 7x57, .45-70, .30-40, .223, and a couple muzzleloaders, all in the safe right now.

But if I ever ran up on a rough LA 700 on the cheap and had a buncha cash laying around.......

Yeah C H - I forgot to post the emoji.


Also, I'm NOT a 6.5-06 hater. I just prefer the 7 R M.


Jerry

I love the 7's and as I pointed out a few posts back I will most likely add it too my switch 6.5CM. (one of the shorts) It appears to me that the 6.5's and 7's have more efficient long range bullets than the 270 and 300's, without finnicky loading.

My very first of about 10 rifles was a 7 Mag Browning A-Bolt White Gold Medallion - the Internet had been invented then and if I recall I carefully researched it for several weeks and decided on a 7Mag as the most logical all purpose big game cartridge. (My son is holding it in the pictures I posted) It will shoot snake eyes for the first two shots at 100yds, then I have to distract myself for a while to let it cool.

I take practicing seriously as I do not want to be known as a "sport" that wounds my animal on the really long shot because I did not do the necessary work.

By and large the only practical time I have to practice is at the indoor range nearby. The recoil and muzzle blast of the 7 and 300 is what led me to the 6.5's. I have observed that generally, younger guys recommend the bigger calibers and the older guys like me end up going light. (body deterioration) of course there are exceptions.

After all the talk of forgetting ammo I am going to reload an extra 100 6.5-06 rounds and place some in all my cars, hunting jackets, pockets and strapped to the stock of my gun. Perhaps I may even store them like the watch in Pulp Fiction LOL - Seriously, as has been recommended by others I try and always take a back up gun on the big hunts - just in case, it used to be my ex, Weatherby 300 which is little better than the wildcats for remote availability - now It will be my 45-70. For my big African guns I have warne quick release rings and a back up scope and rings sighted in that accompany the main rifle.

guy -

In the age department of your post, I am the exception. I'm 69 Y O now.
I also don't shoot indoors so that doesn't bother me.

I know I don't need a 7 mag for WT but the 7 RM is qualified as an ALL AROUND ( all purpose ) game hunting cartridge.


Jerry

Didn't take you as a hater, sorry if it sounded that way.

My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and it has been taking game since the early 80's. Still works fine. It will probably be the last to go - at least while I'm still elk hunting.

Love my heavy-weight 6.5-06AI for target and short carry and would like to get one in a sporter-weight for longer hikes. Don't have any need for a 6.5 CM, but you never know - need hasn't had anything to do with my rifle acquisitions since the 7mm RM. But don't tell my wife...

C H

I didn't think you did or implied it. I simply added it for general comment per the 6.5-06.

No Harm, No Foul.


Jerry

Since a 6.5PRC and 6.5-06AI wasn't available, I went with a used Remington M700 in .270 Win for Daughter #1. Loaded up some 150g LRAB development loads today using IMR 7977 and H100V, at .126" over SAAMI COL and Nosler load data. Hoping to hit 2900fps or more with the extra length and powder space and the 22" barrel. Even at 2850fps, which should be easily doable, it should be a great round.



Using 7000 feet above sea level and MPBR zeroes for a 6" target, 10mph xwind:

.270 Win / 150g Long Range AB @ 2850fps
600yds = -54.8", 2216fps, 1636fpe, 15.0" drift

.270 Win / 150g Long Range AB @ 2940fps (Hodgdon velocity, 24" bbl, 150g Hornady SP, IMR7977, COL 3.285")
600yds = -50.2", 2294fps, 1753fpe, 14.3" drift

6.5-06 is a good one even though I don't own one. I do like the 25 & 27-06 and the 28-06 AI so whats not to like about the 6.5? If building one I would go AI or 6.5x280AI for the longer neck. I carried around 9-10 lb. rifles for a long time and just thought that was what a rifle weighed, now I like 7-7.5 lbs. more even if I am not packing it that far. For scopes I am getting more fixed 6x's and 2.5x8xs. Though several wear 3-9s or 3.5x10s but most stop at a 44 mm objective. Just my preferences.

Very fond of the 7RM even though the glitz has worn off it, it is still a good all a rounder. The 6.5x55 is no slouch either and not far behind the 6.5x06. The old Sweede worked fine a couple of days ago on a nice meat buck, field dressed at 175 lbs. which is good sized for a hill country buck.

Even commercial Pilots still manage to forget to check things like fuel level, about as bright as those who
forget ammo for the hunt...

We had one big shot commercial female pilot who ran short of Fuel en route,. had to load drums into the MD500E
and go 'rescue' her. (but it aint exclusive to females.)

Next thing you know, someone will come out with a new round, the 6.8x06 AI fast twist with appropriate bullets....but no flies on a good 6.5.

Meanwhile the best improvement most hunters could do to "connect with vitals" is to put in the time learning their gear - learn the dope, and use a LRF.

Before jumping off to a wildcat - I'd opt for a 280 or 280 AI and heavy bullets though personally would grab a Swede, Creed, 270, or 7/08 first. Just me.

My guess is you'd be able to get dang close.

I had access to modeling software about a decade ago. It was kind of like Excel What-If functions, but on steroids. Just to test it out, I took a large part of Hodgdon's loading database and tried to optimize for best performance versus lowest recoil. To make it work, I started with MAX loads and then knocked off between 0 and 5 % and then did my calculations. I let it run for days.

What I found was that there were a few nodes which had very favorable ratings. Three stuck out.

35 Whelen (reduced somewhat)
280 REM
6.5X55

If you want to think about it in a grand 10,000 ft kind of way what that model told me was that somewhere between a 6.5X55 and 280 REM lay an ideal round that would deliver the best theoretical performance vs recoil of anything out there.

Bottom line: Somewhere in that 6.5 to 7mm pantheon is an ideal load. Probably you can get to it by a variety of routes with various bullets, powders and cases.

A 6.5-06 wildcat? A 280 REM? A 6.5X55? The answer is: Yes, one of those will do nicely.

I've always maintained that caliber range, with their bullet weights and speeds is a "sweet spot" for a bulk of hunters in NA.

The cartridge you are looking for is called the 7X57!

So a caliber between 6.5 and 280, but on the Whelen case.....hmmmm....

Sounds gay.

Just got a rifle like you describe for Daughter #1. With a 150LRAB @ 2850fps, recoil is mild, ballistics are excellent and it is elk-capable past 600 yards. I expect it will serve her well.

I expect it will too, given my somewhat limited experience with such gayness. Deer and elk seem extremely....homophobic. Though I've not taken anything beyond 425 yds, so the gay may have a dissipating effect over distance, for all I know. Keep us posted on how well your daughter shoots it!

Thought about this thread a bit and whomever said that "cartridges are more alike than not" really put gun writing out of business, as this one is really just another example of a "Me Too" cartridge when use on non dangerous game as originally stated by the OP.

[quote=shaman]

What I found was that there were a few nodes which had very favorable ratings. Three stuck out.

35 Whelen (reduced somewhat)
280 REM
6.5X55

If you want to think about it in a grand 10,000 ft kind of way what that model told me was that somewhere between a 6.5X55 and 280 REM lay an ideal round that would deliver the best theoretical performance vs recoil of anything out there.
Bottom line: Somewhere in that 6.5 to 7mm pantheon is an ideal load. Probably you can get to it by a variety of routes with various bullets, powders and cases.

A 6.5-06 wildcat? A 280 REM? A 6.5X55? The answer is: Yes, one of those will do nicely.

[/quote

Does this mean that the 270 is metro sexual?

Did some load development for Daughter's M700 .270 Win yesterday. Started out with a Winchester 150g Power-Point factory load (X2704) rated at 2850fps but it went over the chrono at a wimpy 2722fps. Pretty gay!

Heck, that's only 23fps faster than a 150g BT out of my 16.1" barreled Ruger Scout .308. There were a couple guys shooting their custom .338 Lapua rifles at the range while I was there. One was based on a Defiance/Deviant action. Now THOSE were some manly-man rigs! Too manly for me, though, as I wouldn't want to pack a 16-17 pound rifle around while hunting.

Ended up with a 150g LRAB loaded to 3.467" COL at 2910fps average over the chrono. Calculations (G1 B.C. of .625) show that at 7000 feet in altitude and MPBR zeroed for a 6" target, it retains only (G1) 2259fps and 1700fpe at 600 yards, with a drop and drift of 52.2" and 14.6". Still pretty gay!!!

On the other hand, 2259fps, 52.2" drop and 14.6" drift compares favorably with a .338 Lapua/300g AccuBond at 2750fps, also at 7500feet altitude, 600 yards and MPBR zeroed for a 6" target - 2216fps, 57.9" drop and 13.2" drift. The significant difference is retained energy, 1700fpe vs. 3272fpe. Maybe just a little less gay?

For 20+ years I hunted with a 7mm RM load that couldn't come close to the .270/150g LRAB load in downrange ballistics but proved to be a very effective killer of elk anyway. The last elk I killed was with my buddy's 7mm RM and that same load at 411 yards, 4 steps and down. Gay or not, I think the .270/150g LRAB combo will serve Daughter #1 well. Heck, if it wasn't wrong-handed, it would serve me well, too!

That would be me

And I’m not a gun writer, though I play one on the intranet...

I might a stayed at a holiday inn express.