Looking at a mausingfield action with a manners eh2 or similar.
Probably feed it with aics mags in apa metal. What 416 case would you push the 400 A frame with.
Ruger ,Rigby, Remington or Weatherby.

I’m leaning towards ruger for availability and cost.
What do the experts say.

I am all about oddball or over the top customs that only make since to me but this one is out there in my book... yes the 416 Ruger is a good choice but all the cartridges listed as well as the 416 Taylor will get you there. I have the 416 Ruger Alaskan platform. Fits me well enough, CRF, slick action, integral mounts and decent iron sights. Not much not to like. Especially for the price of entry.

Why all your other choices? Mausingfield? AICS DBM? EH2? Seems like there would be many other good ways to skin that cat. Not trying to drag you... but would like to hear your thoughts as to why this could be “the one?”

It’s just a bunch of parts I have used less the mausingfield that work very well. I’m Considering BDL but still tossing it around.
Once I have scratched my Africa itch it will timber hunt elk and bear. I have a bunch of builds that made sense, this one is a crazy gun guy makes no sense to anyone else but me build.

But my smith said the same thing “buy a ruger”.
I was just thinking about something very different.

For something very different, very cool, very well designed (IMHO) and very obsolete, try a 416 Dakota.

Im not an expert but just realistic. Its hard to beat the Ruger Hawkeye 416 ruger or get an No1 in 416 rem or 416 ruger. This is the easiest route.

Ive got a new unfired No1 416 Rem i picked up 20 yrs ago at a hardware store that was closing out the big bores that didnt sell. So i picked some up. Ive also got an 375 Ruger Hawkeye. This is what i own so it would jave to make do.

I have a Ruger Alaskan, 20” stainless in .416 Ruger. Love it!
Never shot a Cape buffalo but lots of water jugs, steel plates & 1 antelope. I load 350 gr. Speers at about 2,400 which make pleasant enough recoil for enjoyment while handling anything in North America I’m likely to go after. The 400 gr. factory stuff isn’t too brutal either.

For what it’s worth, I do like this cartridge & while it’s not a bizarre build, I like this rifle.

Thanks for the information.
I love the 350’s on antelope seems eccentric. I was thinking about antelope with the 260ab in my H&H I might need to go 300 A frames just to be safe.

For the 416 ruger guys running Hawkeyes what is the accuracy like.

I have messed around with CZ 550 416 Rigby's, built 404 Jeffery's, and now have a Model 70 Classic in 416 Remington.

If I preferred Ruger rifles over Model 70's I could be happy with one of those in 416 Ruger.

I plan on running 350gr TSX's out of the Remington with Speers as plinkers. I have some 300gr TSX's coming just to play around with.

I am past the serious building stage anymore. Take a factory rifle tweak if needed and I am good to go.

I think a little short action crf in 416 Express would be cool. Not the most powerful but I'm sure it would do the trick

Flip a coin on either the Remington or Rigby.

I have a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby and a Whitworth in 416 Remington. I am partial to the 416 Remington since it is in a lighter handier package

Close friend killed a nice buff in Zim couple years ago, used a Ruger RSM in .416 Rigby. One shot with a 400 gr. TSX.

PH carried a push feed M-70 in .416 Rem. He liked the RSM, but said it was too heavy. So, I guess the PH figured he packed it more than he shot it.

Is the .416 Rem becoming the fav 40 cal Africa round?

DF

More fav than the 416 Ruger

From what I'm reading, the Ruger version may be the Alaska fav in SS. It could be the package as much as the round.

DF

Funny thing is, that as “over-kill” as that 350 gr. 416 Speer is, it’s one of the very few bullets I’ve ever recovered in an antelope. The shot was a lasered 210 yards angling on. The bullet broke the front shoulder, wrecked the boiler room, broke the opposing rear hip & was recovered as a big lump under the skin. Even at that she took a few steps before folding up.

Sometimes I just have fun with some of the guns I’ve never hunted with because antelope are 95% of my hunting.

I love it. Do you have a picture of the bullet?

https://postimg.cc/gallery/ZbZK3hS

Don’t know if that worked. I’m an image posting imbecile, but that’s the recovered bullet next to an unfired round & the empty shell.

It works. Pretty dang cool stuff.

I have no experience hunting/shooting Cape buffalo. But, the 416 Remington and Ruger I do have. I think both are great cartridges. The Rigby intrigues me somewhat, due to its ability to push bullets quite a bit faster. I just prefer the more compact cartridges and rifles. Personal preference. I don’t see a bad choice with any of the 416’s including the Taylor or one of the 416 wildcats.

Ross Seyfried once wrote an article about the .416 Rem. Mag. being about perfect. He was really convincing. I would look there.

I have a 416 express on a short Mauser action - it is a great little 416 and you NEVER see one mentioned! Think I would want a bit faster 416 for Cape Buff though.

My PH was more than pleased that I was using a 416 rather than a 375... I put my 416 Rem M70 together a few years before the hunt. I swapped to an unbedded McM stock, Wisner front and rear sights, Williams extractor and Talley QD's. I used a VXIII 1.5-5X on the hunt. I now have a Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Safari Posi-Lock that will go on it. My PH thought it was an excellent combo that "just felt right". He was using a custom 416 Rigby built on a Brevex action. It was beautiful and a tank. I used a handloaded 350 gr TSX. The one shown without petals was a finisher at 10 yards, the other from the first shot at 125 yards. He loaded the 400 gr TSX. The rifle weighs a hair under 9# as shown. Planning to head back when things clear up.

About as good as it gets there, Ed. Years ago, I spoke with Connie Brooks at Barnes and she told me their testing in Africa on Buffalo and other large game, the 350 TSX shoed better performance than the 400gr. I don't remember whether what kind of 416 it was, but I think it was the Remington version, which in my mind is the most practical of all the 416s.

Ed how fast were your running the 350 gr?

2550 fps

None, i'll be the odd man out and have a nice double rifle built pushing the 416 cal bullets from a rimmed 450 or 500 Nitro Express case.

What powder? I am going to try H4895, TAC and IMR 4451 under the 350gr TSX. My goal is to end up somewhere between 2500-2600 fps.

My PH in Zambia was also happy to hear that I was bringing a 404 Jeffery for Buffalo and not a 375 H&H.

Ed, what pattern McMillan is that?

I have a .416 Ruger and my 350 gr load at 2500 +/- is with RL-15. When I use up the 15, I will go to RL-16 because it appears to be more temp stable. That is assuming that I can find powder.

RL-15.

Winchester Express.

I probably will never go Cape Buffalo hunting as i have been a blue color worker all my life that`s just to of a expensive hunt for me and most other Americans. but if i did ever get to go i would use a 416 Rigby Ruger #1, that i own just because i believe in a great old classic cartridge the 416 Rigby with a great American made single shot rifle the Ruger #1 that now is no longer produced much and soon will probably never be made again. good luck with your choice,Pete53

Pete, I understand what you're saying about a cape buffalo hunt being too expensive. I understand from a blue collar worker's perspective, these prices are crazy. Especially if you start considering kids in college, or needing a new (used) truck, etc. That being said, if you really desire to go do it, you can find a way. It might take a few years of saving, but Cape Buffalo is really the last "affordable" dangerous game hunt and if you watch and plan, you can find some fairly affordable hunts. Granted, you're still going to spend a bundle, but you'll have the time of your life if you go with a reputable PH/outfit. And, it is never going to get cheaper, we all know that, so the sooner you get there to hunt, the less money you'll spend. If it is a dream for you, then I would do whatever you can to make it happen. Just my 2 cents!

thanks for the thought after all my years working,health issues now and paying for colleges for my kids and still helping my kids cause i want too. i will think about still going to Africa but this year because of how this election has turned out ,.i hopefully get drawn for a combo big game license in Montana. thank you,Pete53

Ok, I bought a 458 win mag yesterday. Darn nice rifle.
So my 416 budget is blown and I’m just thinking a good Winchester 70 in 416 Remington and skip the build.

Umm
We need details on the 458 please I know this a 416 thread, but....

Make some .45/70 level cast bullet loads & have a ball all day. I’ve done that with a couple of .458’s I’ve had. Full factory loses it’s fun factor quickly & your retinas are important.

Nothing fancy just a post 64 Winchester. Came with a stack of bullets and ammo.
When I figure out how to post pictures I will toss one up.

Looking forward, heading to range in the morning to play with my 416.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320xq90/r/924/6NaH5t.jpg

That 458wm

Builds off.
With the pre64 375, 458 wm and a possible ruger in 416 rigby I think the big bore itch is scratched. How ever that ruger guide 416 looks pretty slick.
If the rigby falls through I have a feeling about that guide gun.

Thanks for the pics, I like the 458.

From my experience with the big bores I have owned and others I have shot, you may be on the right track. Try a bunch of different rifles/cartridges until you find the one that is right for you.
Unless your goal is to own a bunch of different big bores, find the one package you like and shoot the heck out of.

My simple goal is to have one big rifle. Non looney of me I know. I want it to be over 40 caliber. My 375 was an opportunity that came up. While I like it, the comfort level is not there.

I only have 100 rounds through my new to me 416 Remington and already feel very comfortable with it. I can shoot the 416 as comfortably as my 375, so much so, that the 375 will probably go down the road once the 416 is completely done and have a bunch more range time with it..

I’m thinking the rigby will follow me home tomorrow and my next step will be to try a 416 ruger guide. Then sell what I don’t like.

I shoot a CZ 550 416 Rigby and 416 Remington on the Winchester 70. I like the Rem version of these two better for handiness and was quicker to my shoulder. On my one buffalo hunt (I'm not an expert) i used the 350gr Barnes TSX's at 2550 fps with R-15. You can get another 100 fps out of this quite easily and i did, but backed it down for a little less recoil. I carried that rifle maybe 40 miles on a 14 day hunt. When i finally shot my buff at 15 yards, it was instant lights out for the buff, fell on its nose and death bellowed.

All this to say, make your rifle balanced between power and handiness, and you certainly don't need more juice than the 416 Rem Mag provides. My PH carried a stock 416 Weatherby Mag, but complained about the price of ammo in Zimbabwe to feed it.

Enjoy your journey and keep us posted on your experiences.

Ended up with the rigby it’s a heavy sob I’ll see how it shoots and if I enjoy all the forward weight.
Might end up swapping it for the Ruger 416 guide gun if I can’t fall in love with the M77 of old.

Weight seems to be a drawback to the Rigby, which requires a bigger action, etc.

The .416 Rem seems to be growing in popularity generally, the SS Ruger .416 in Alaska. Ruger built a package that seems to fit the needs of hunters in AK. Both are good rounds, either one I’d pick over the Rigby. My bud really likes his RSM Rigby, but it is heavy.

New powders and improved bullets make .416’s even more effective. So, the “good old days” of rifle technology is not as good as what we now enjoy.

DF

I’ve shot Cape Buffalo with a few different calibers, including 458 Winchester, 375 H&H, 470 NE and 416 Hoffman. The only heavy rifle I have now is the 416 Hoffman, which I acquired about a month before Remington announced their version of 416.

If I were to get a new 416 today, it would be 416 Remington, in a controlled round feed Model 70.

The Remington is nearly the same as Hoffman, only difference is the shoulder on the Hoffman is about 1/8” farther forward, so you can shoot 416 Remington cartridges in a Hoffman, not not the other way. My Hoffman load up to now has been a 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw atop RL15 at 2,510. It’s a great Buffalo load. However, I’m about to start tweaking it as finding Bullets is very difficult right now and I have a Buffalo hunt coming up.

I’ve got a 16-day hunt coming up in western Tanzania that includes 3 buffalo bulls and am considering what to shoot in my 416. So far, I have 350 gr TTSX’s & 400 gr Cutting Edge Raptors in hand and have 400 gr Swift A-frames on back order. Also have some 400 gr Trophy Bonded sledgehammer solids. I should be able to get some 400 grain TSX’s by early May. It’s going to be fun testing these various Bullets and will make the time until October fly by. I expect I’ll be able to push the 350’s around 2,650-2,700 but am not sure I want to. It’s hard to argue with a 400 at 2,500+, that load really is great Buffalo medicine. My PH, Alan Vincent, thinks I should stick with 400 grain Bullets.

I gave all that background because you can nearly duplicate it with a 416 Remington. While I love the history and tradition of the Rigby, I think the Remington is the best practical option.

With today’s powder options and able to fit in a std full length mag action, the Rem does make more sense than the Rigby.

The Rigby has an outstanding history and is a great round. The Rem will almost equal its performance in a lighter, less expensive package. Thus, it’s more practical.

DF

This might not be what many would opt for, but here’s what I had built for my .416... I went with a .416 Hoffman, because Remington had not yet announced their 416 when I had mine built by Champlin Firearms.

It’s a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 with 22” Shilen stainless barrel. Brown Precision fiberglass stock, barrel band front swivel stud to protect hand on forearm, German claw mounts for quick on/off scope with fixed open sights. Scope is a Leupold 1.5-5x. Weight about 9 1/2 pounds, IIRC.

The load I shot has been 81.0 grains of RL-15, pushing 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bullets at 2,510 FPS. I’m getting ready for an October hunt with 3 buffalo on license and going to be testing a variety of other Bullets since Bearclaws are tough to find these days. For solids, I have Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers, Cutting Edge Safari Solids and Woodleigh Breakaway Solids, all in 400 grain. For expanding, so far I have 370 grain Cutting Edge Raptors and 350 grain Barnes TTSXs. Still waiting on some 400 grain Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame and Nosler Partitions. Load development is going to be interesting, and I’ll work from my current load downward till I find what shoots best between 2,400-2,500.

That’s a nice rifle Fred, Matt was saying it’s a pussycat with the kdf.

Rigby or Rem. Both kill efficiently and work great. I have used both. I prefer the Rigby for no other reason than that is what I have.

There are no bad .416 cartridges. All work.

416 rigby is a keeper. I’m in love with the horse power got 400 Aframes well under min of buffalo.

Im in the process of regulating the sights now.

Neither.

Just get a 375 H&H, which is all you need for buffalo.

The 416s are not really "all around/general use" calibers. Kind of a waste of space and weight for a second rifle to bring for only one animal. They are overkill for plains game and on the lightish side for elephant. You really don't need anything bigger than a 3-7-5 for buffalo anyway.

The 375 H&H will be much more accurate, reach out further, and in combination, more accurate at longer range. Even with a rest and in a blind, your PH won't be saying "take the Rigby" to snipe that croc or hippo. The 375 H&H will also handle a bit better both on sticks and freehand. Much easier to get a second bullet downrange with a 375 H&H. The "field' recovery time alone on a 3-7-5 outweighs any theoretical "internet" more dead 416 argument.

Finally, the 375 H&H has a very light recoil due to its taper. I am not recoil sensitive at all. To me felt recoil is not much more than a 300 Win. You know you've shot a 416 Rigby. Again improves both accuracy and quick follow ups.

Oh and good luck trying to find ammo over there. (Don't tell anyone you've got a 375 H&H as everyone will be hitting you up to buy your ammo.)

Here's my Holehan 416 Rigby on top and my Pre War Mod 70. The Rigby has never been to Africa and I'll never (need to) take it. Very pretty and look good on paper, but in retrospect for me a huge waste of money.

Harry Selby would disagree with you about the 416 not being an all-around rifle..

I'd go with an 8 pound 416 Remington with 350 go TTSX

Phil’s daughter in AK uses a .416 Rem as her all around rifle, including sheep. First of all, she can shoot it and she won’t get surprised by a big bear and not be prepared.

That apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

My bud’s .416 Rem is as accurate as my .375 H&H, both will go MOA with select loads.

DF

Modern times. Reality. Not internet theory.

He also did not have A Frames....or any decent soft projectile.

TSX in big bores ain't all that and a bag of chips. A lot of PHs who welcomed them with open arms when they first came out are now coming full circle and going back to A frames. Just not opening up at lower velocities.

I'll never use them again on anything bigger than a 300 Win.

Until I have a problem with the ones I have ill stay with the bag of chips

If I were to make another 416 it would be a 416 Taylor. I owned one and I have made about 15 of them and I like the fact it's a standard sized Mauser so it carries very easily and gives the exact same ballistics as the 1920s 416 Rigby in a more slender rifle.
I believe the 416 Ruger may be everything the Taylor is, but having not made any 416 Rugers I can't say what is needed to make the cartridges feed from a Mauser, which is my favorite action.
But a 400 grain bullet at 2300 to 2350 needs not apologize for anything, anywhere.

Having a Taylor and 3 416 RMags...I will go 411KDF and enjoy practice with 41 caliber handgun bullets a 400 H&H if you wanted to use a longer action. With 405 Win bullets for Black Bear and 411 X bullets for Brown Bear. But then again some places require your cartridges be marked exactly as you rifle is marked...Might be an issue. That is why I went 416 RM.

Are you going to mount a scope on the .416 Rigby?

I would probably take a Kimber Talkeetna and rebarrel to 416RM or a stainless Winchester Model 70 rebarreled to 404Jeffery.

My tweaked M70 416 Rem worked just fine in Zimbabwe with the 350 gr TSX. Servil to buffalo and my PH was more than happy with my combo.

Not surprised that your "PH was more than happy" that is a great combo

I built a .404J on a M-70 RUM action. Less modification that way, just open the bolt face.

This one in a Echols Legend stock that I steel bedded and freefloated. Williams bottom metal fit perfectly, D'Arcy's inletting is perfect.

DF

Nice .404 Jeffery DF, have you seen my .404 Jeffery?

Think I remember when you got it.

Lot prettier than the Legend stocked SS Win-70.

DF

There's a lot of good information being shared here, and everyone (as usual) has at least a slightly different opinion. I'll chime in just because I believe mine is a simple one and it's fun to read and to share here.

I shot a lot of game, both large and small, with a 416 Rigby while on multiple hunts in Africa during the 4 years that I worked there. I would choose Rigby simply for the history and tradition, but there's not a 416 in existence that I know of that is not completely and likely over adequate for cape buffalo. If I were getting equipped from scratch I would read up and go with whatever appealed to me the most, because as stated here already any 416 is plenty for buffalo.

I took mine with a 375 H&H, along with many other smaller animals, and it is what I would take again. My reason was already stated before as well. It is plenty of gun for buffalo. It is extremely versatile and shootable. It is definitely my favorite big bore cartridge and the ammo availability is the best.

Good luck on your trip. A cape buffalo hunt is like no other.

I traded the .404J after shoulder surgery, couldn't see me shooting that thing.

That was 5-6 yrs ago. Then, here I am, shooting my bud's .416 Rem in a M-70 with Shilen barrel. Note the movement of that post op shoulder.

My bud suggested I send that picture to my surgeon, who is a hunter. Just wanted to let him know how well he fixed my complete rotator cuff tear.

Hit the mute button to hear the gun speak. That's at bud's camp. He built it up due to flooding. Believe it or not, that gun will shoot MOA with the 400 NPT over 75 gr. 4064, Bill Hober's Swift factory load, running almost but not quite 2,400 fps. Standing bench, of course. Elmer's contribution to sighting in.big guns.

DF

[img]https://i.imgur.com/H0EkQ2c.mp4[/img]

Yes. I took the scope off got my 400 grain A Frames absolutely perfect at 50 yards. Had to take .075” off the sight. Next is getting the first flip up on at 125 yard and the second at 200.

The scope is a Leupold 2.5 compact it has about 5” of eye relief. Amen. It’s 1” high at 50 yards.

I have settled on the 400 Aframe and the 400 hornady solids land about 1/2 higher that the Aframes and perfectly in line.

I have 2 1/2 boxes of 350 Aframes and a box of Barnes 350 tsx
And a bunch of old Barnes X bullets I’m going to have to trade off for 400 grain Aframes.

dirt farmer.
I put a SB vari-m on the pre 64 375 H&H it has about 3.5” of eye relief and if I’m not holding on tight it will kiss my brow.
It shoots 300 Aframes under Moa for three with 75 grains of RL17 fed215’s at 2620.

Great video I will get some pictures taken and post them when I have a chance.

Good choice on the scope DD!

Just a suggestion, why don't you get the second flip up sight on at 200 yards and not worry about the other two.

The .416 Rem in the video wears a Trijicon 1-4. I'm not sure the actual ER, but it seems adequate. BTW, it's a fine scope with great glass. It's tough and holds it's settings. I like the triangle reticle on a gun like this, it's fast to pick up and has a clean field of view. To me, at 1X, it's faster than irons. My bud didn't want irons, says his eyes have "matured" beyond that. Mine, too...

I was using a target I made; I covered a 4x4 piece of thin plywood with black plastic sheeting, painted it white, stenciled red targets. Works like a Dirty Bird target, shows bullet holes really well. In this case, the triangle fit perfectly in the red bull, forming a pie shape in the bottom quadrant of the target, very repeatable. That just worked out by accident, but was pretty neat.

Shooting the 400 NPT, the gun had been sighted for 350 Speers, the first shot was a bit low, I adjusted the scope once, shot two, adjusted again shot two more, left it there. The target was at 67 yds. Nothing magic about that distance, just a convenient set up due to a limb sticking up from recent storm debris, a handy spot to lean the plywood target. Just two rounds a group doesn't make, but gives a good idea. Now if someone wants to come shoot the 10 shot, Fire specified groups, I'll supply the ammo and watch....

DF

DF, hope your Bud uses the 400gr Partition on Buffalo, cant wait to hear how it works if he does.

400 A-Frames, same load, shot almost as well. Again two shot groups...

Bottom photo, the Breakaway solids over 77 gr 4064, (added charge to bring them into same POI as softs). Although each bullet cost $7, they didn't shoot as well, still minute of a buff. By the time you get to solids, MOA no longer an issue.

For me, the idea of the 350 TSX seems optimal, would be my choice, but when in Rome.... The PH wanted solids, so solids are in the mix.

The wife of my friend's hunting pard passed suddenly, so hunt has been postponed.

DF

He's long been a NPT fan, but seems the PH is an SAF guy. At least he'll have both.. Bud has used the SAF in his 338 Win in AK and S TX (nilgai), so he likes them, just prefers Partitions. He may be able to convince the PH to use NPT's. We'll see. Either bullet should do the job. Doubt anyone could tell the difference, doubt the buff could, either...

10 solids, 20 each of NPT and SAF, plus 50 7RM 160 NAB's (over 67 gr. RL-26), two plastic 50 rd, boxes in a locked TSA type ammo box, weighed 10#'s 8 oz, under the 11# max limit.

DF

I'm also interested in hearing how they work on Cape Buffalo

I enjoy the hell out of shooting the rifle, so getting the two flip dialed ups is a good time. Kinda figure the more rounds I fire from it the better I will be come game time.

I bet the work flawlessly.

Dirt farmer sorry to hear about your friends wife.

Yeah, that was a bummer. The guy is a successful businessman and a retired pastor. He and his pastor son preached her funeral.

Now, you gotta be plugged in pretty tight with the Higher Power to successfully pull something like that off and do it well.

I wasn't able to go, but my Bud said it was one of the finest funerals he'd heard. It was recounted how she lived, the people she influenced during her lifetime. Reportedly her sphere of influence and her ministry were quite extensive and note worthy. Her reward is on the other side, for sure. There's gotta be Peace in that.

DF

True, the more time spent shooting it the better you will be when the moment of truth arrives. I just think a 200 yard zero with the iron sights will cover any shooting you will do with the .416.

Agree 100%. I was going to set the number 2 at 125, and the number 3 at 200.

You may laugh at me, but take it out rabbit hunting. Try and get real close to them without them knowing you're there. Carry what you're going to hunt buffalo with and stalk the country for bunnies. IMO, that will be more helpful than anything else, if you can hit bunnies regularly with the .416 then buffalo will be easy-peasy.

Then he can move up to a .460....

Dem wabbits be some tough critters, don't ya know....

You not going soft, shootin' them with a .404J, are you...??

DF

DF, not yet.

Elk,
I reserve the 458 for rabbits they are tougher than normal rabbit 🐇. 450 Aframes at 2320fps with 77.7grains of AA2230.

Farmer. The 458 has a 1-6 trijicon on it and I agree they are very nice scopes. I considered a 1-4 for the 416 but kinda dig the 2.5x and the ability to take it off and run the irons.

This years goal is to test the 416 on elk! Fingers crossed.

DD, something tells me that the Rigby will do just fine on a elk.

The .458 will do just fine for those tough bunnies and the A-Frames will just barely over penetrate.

😂😂

I can't imagine shooting some of the cannons talked about here. Biggest thing I have ever shot was a 300 Wby Mag. For some strange unknown reason I do have a hankering for a .375 Ruger guide gun. It just seems sexy to me.

Of course, you deserve one.

Good site for enablement, we here to help...

DF

I have an eye for the 416 guide. I have three boxes of 350 Aframes to get it started. But I’m pretty sure that you will love the 375 ruger.

As to recoil it’s just a big push. 😂👍

Nice, if he cant get by the PH, could always use dead Buff for bullet testing with the NPT.

The hunt is the client's, he is paying for the hunt and the guide. He can use whatever bullet that he wants to use.

True enough.

But, it's his first buff hunt and he's wanting to stay on the reservation, so to speak.

His thinking, why hire a PH and not listen to his advice, just as he doesn't appreciate a client trying to tell him how to try a case in court.

So, that's his take and his reasoning for listening to his PH.

As has been posted here more than once, PH's are largely expert hunters, at the top of their game. Most, however, aren't gun people, their rifles but tools of their trade. So, they tend to go with conventional thinking, don't branch out much, even when better stuff becomes available.

And, it may be a regional thing. My bud who got a buff in Zim said .416's and TSX's were in favor there and I've read the same. South Africa is where softs and solids are being recommended. I'd be curious to hear opinions on regional bullet and round preferences. I'd think PH's probably swap tales and discuss equipment among themselves.

DF

I would choose the Rigby.I once shot my PH's in an old MK2 magnum.It was REALLY accurate -much more accurate than my 458 Lott's.

Barret

I’ll make you a deal on a .404 Jeff project if you still need to scratch the itch. Action was an original German .300 Weatherby magnum, lightweight Walther barrel, sculpted scope mounts, barrel band, 3 pos safety, NECG front & rear sights and Weibe bottom metal. I have the metal work done and a nice stock blank. Needs the wood carved, metaI blued, and final tuning. I have a large collection of projectiles and dies to go along with it.

Not intending to sweep in for the steal ... but you have my interest about this 404J in case the original poster declines.

Good post.

My best fried for many years before he died an early & untimely death from cancer, was a well renowned PH in Zambia & Tanzania & he would have been happy to let me use a 338 if it had been legal.

The 375 with good bullets & a GOOD SHOOTER is more than adequate & most guys will, w/o a doubt, be a better shooter with the 375 than the 416.

MM

Well after all that, the hunt was postponed until August.

Bud, at his camp, was standing on his side by side, just having cut a limb. His brother-in-law started the vehicle, causing him to fall. He landed on a just cut limb, full weight on his hip. Went to Urgent Care, X-Rays showed non displaced Fx hip. Sent to hosp, had surg last Sunday, nail, plate and one screw. Is at home, non wt. bearing, using walker and wheel chair for 6 wks.

So, hunt again postponed. Bummer.

Well, at least his ordinance is all set up, ready to go.

DF

I bought a Remington 700 Custom KS in 416 rem for $700. Great rifle and price. The only thing was that it had to much recoil for me.

I would get a 375 HH to bring to Africa. With controlled expansion bullets it would be effective against Buffalo.

[quote=Tony_Soprano]Neither.

Just get a 375 H&H, which is all you need for buffalo.

The 416s are not really "all around/general use" calibers. Kind of a waste of space and weight for a second rifle to bring for only one animal. They are overkill for plains game and on the lightish side for elephant. You really don't need anything bigger than a 3-7-5 for buffalo anyway.

The 375 H&H will be much more accurate, reach out further, and in combination, more accurate at longer range. Even with a rest and in a blind, your PH won't be saying "take the Rigby" to snipe that croc or hippo. The 375 H&H will also handle a bit better both on sticks and freehand. Much easier to get a second bullet downrange with a 375 H&H. The "field' recovery time alone on a 3-7-5 outweighs any theoretical "internet" more dead 416 argument.

Finally, the 375 H&H has a very light recoil due to its taper. I am not recoil sensitive at all. To me felt recoil is not much more than a 300 Win. You know you've shot a 416 Rigby. Again improves both accuracy and quick follow ups.

Oh and good luck trying to find ammo over there. (Don't tell anyone you've got a 375 H&H as everyone will be hitting you up to buy your ammo.)

Here's my Holehan 416 Rigby on top and my Pre War Mod 70. The Rigby has never been to Africa and I'll never (need to) take it. Very pretty and look good on paper, but in retrospect for me a huge waste of money.


I’m going to agree, and disagree, with Tony Soprano on the .375 vs .416 issue. When I was taking my son on his 1st buffalo hunt, he wanted a big bore. I bought him a Model 70 in .375 H&H, telling him “It’s all the rifle you’ll ever need for Africa”. And it is, given that he’s not likely to hunt Africa many times and will always be backed up by a bigger gun. It has become his favorite rifle.

I, on the other hand, felt the need for a bit more gun for my own hunts, in part because I’ve nearly been flattened by a bull elephant and a buffalo cow. I’ve carried a .458 Winchester and a lovely old Rigby box lock I had in .470 NE (eventually sold that double, but wish I hadn’t). I wanted something a bit lighter but still with more stopping power than a .375. So, I had a .416 Hoffman built on a pre-64 action. I’m shooting a 400 grain bullet at 2,360; which yields right at 5,000 ft-lbs of energy and penetrates deeply. I believe it’s a nice compromise between a .375 and the bigger 45 & up caliber cartridges.

The .416 can reach out a fair way; evidenced by a Gemsbok I shot at around 300 yards in the Kalahari. Up close, I’ve dumped an old buffalo bull pretty much in his tracks at 20 yards with it. My rifle weighs 9 1/2 lbs, so it’s easier to carry than a larger, heavier Big-bore. With a Brown Precision stock and Pachmayr decelerator pad, recoil isn’t a concern unless I crank loads up over 2,500 FPS. I got over the need for more speed when I had rotator cuff surgery a few years ago. 2,360 will kill just fine. I get sub 1” groups with several different 400 grain Bullets, so accuracy is plenty good.

I don’t think a .416, regardless of variant, is ‘the best’ for any specific use in Africa, but it’s a damn good compromise for almost everything. You can’t say that about nearly any other caliber, except possibly the .375.

GO with the Rigby, Lot Lower Pressure, More Accurate !

Good one and a classic.

They tend to be heavier than .416 Rem versions, which seem to be gaining popularity in Africa.

I’m in EdM’s camp. .416 Rem with 350 TSX’s. And I’m also a .375 H&H fan.

.416 Rigby bud just sent me a photo of him with a dead ‘yote, Rigby in hand. Probably overpenetrated.
I think it was a 400 TSX, same bullet he used in Zim to bag a 41” buff. Yote was very dead, no mention of over kill.

DF

I love my rigby. DF I’m really loving the 400 Aframe at 2450 with 102 grains of h4831.

Rigby bud uses 100 gr H-4831 with his 400 TSX’s. Speeds a bit north of 2,400 fps.

I’m sure those A-Frames will whack about anything.

Interesting discussion, SAF vs NPT. Both seem to work.

DF

Yeah, I’m sure the Rigby is more accurate than my Hoffman, since I only get 0.80” groups with 370 grain Raptors. I’m sure a Rigby chambered rifle would do better.

LOL. So heart felt. You matter. Crying laughing.

I’m sure that a properly hit animal could not walk either one off.
I have Aframes because they were available when I was looking, had it been noslers in stock I would have went with them. That said my 375 H&H loves the Aframes at 2620. Where the nosler love is at 2475. Nodes matter.
And 145 fps = a bunch of ko.

I’m still very tempted to get a mauserfield and build a big bore.
The 400h&h has my attention. Probably will pass before I get the action but I’m really thinking something different would be fun.

DD, have the .400 H&H built!

That would be a great combo, the .400 H&H along with the .375 H&H.

Yep, a wabbit killing combo, although a bit light up against the .460.

DF

If I wanted the most insurance, I'd shoot a 416 Wby with 450gr bullets. There is no such thing as too much gun for Cape Buffalo.

LOL, the 400 H&H is a hell of a cartridge men, none smoother feeding i've ever felt, i had one built on a mag action M-70 classic action last year, loaded up 400gr A-frames, Bonded Kodiaks and BBW #13 solids, all to an easy 2400 fps with Varget powder in Quality Cartridge brass, took that rifle to Tanzania for an anniversary safari with Wife, with it i shot:

Gold medal Waterbuck at 218 yards off sticks
Warthog at 168 yards off sticks
Liechtenstein Hartebeest at 236 yards, prone off elbows, herd bull bedded, he never got up.
Monster Zebra Stallion, 277 yards, prone off elbows.
Leopard, 70 yards from blind, dead before he left the limb.

Also did some 40 cal solid testing on the Cape Buffalo and Hippo i took with a 577 double, there isn't an animal walking i wouldn't hunt with that 400 H&H, you can also forget about getting a 400gr BBW #13 solid at 2400 fps back, bolting one in the chamber is the last time you'll see it, wont go into details here, but the penetration has to be seen to be believed.

I’m naive about the 400 H&H; what is the actual bullet diameter? Is it .400 or some variation above .400? I presume it has a taper like the .375 H&H, is that correct?

CEN, yes, it's a long tapered case, have heard some fireform 375 H&H brass for the 400, Bonded Kodiaks, A-frames and solids are 410/411 inch, it's a great cartridge for something a little different, the stalking rifle i had built up weighs in at around 8.5 lbs with scope in QD rings, very handy, easy carrying quick pointing hunting rifle for all game worldwide.

That rifle is a peach too. If I had more of some use I’d be all over one just for the cool factor.

I bought a 400 h&h recently, built on a sako action . I have not found much available for bullets. I have a couple boxes of 300 gr 405 bullets to try .. How much varget does it take to get the 400 gr up to 2400 ?

I use 76gr Varget under the 400gr A-frames, Kodiak Bonded Cores and BBW #13 solids, 75gr Varget goes under the 400gr Woodleigh solids, they build a bit more pressure than the others in my rifle.

Thanks beretzs!

How about bringing this old thread up to date.

Bud missed 2020 hunt due a fractured hip.

But, he made a big come back in 2021 with this 43" buff from South Africa with PH Charl van Rooyen (Infinito Safaris), who was his guide.

Charl likes the SAF, so that's what was used. First shot thru the rib cage and exited. Bud hit buff three more times, no more bullet exits, dropped him before he got out of sight. Guess that old push feed M-70 cycles pretty well. David Christman, Delhi, LA, did a great job with action work and fitting the Shilen barrel.

DF

Nice buffalo.

Good stuff DF, thanks for the update, i'll be looking for no less to try the new 404gr Hammer bullet out on in my 458 WM.

I once shot a 416 Rigby out of a old Ruger in Africa.It was impressed with its accuracy.

Yeah, those big guns can be surprisingly accurate.

DF