I was asked to post images of the bullets from my Safari( african images)
All are Factory 260 GR accubond in .375 cal H&H

As reported none exited, 4 of 5 were recovered.

From Left to Right,

From the Kudu, entered far back , completely destroyed the liver, length wise through 1 lung, top of the heart and lodged in the front of the kudu on the opposite (front of) shoulder, Range approx 85-95 yards

Second bullet, Elands neck at 15-20 yards ( it was laying down having been shot twice), went through the spine and found 3/4 way through the neck. This is the finishing shot

Bullet 3, from the eland ( my first shot), found in the shoulder joint and failed to penetrate to the vitals. 3 rounds hit the eland, first in the shoulder, second in the ass, that bullet broke the pelvis but was not recovered, third in the neck. Range 45-60 yards

Forth bullet is from the gymsbok, 70-80 yards, side shot behind the shoulder , both lungs, top of heart and broke opposite shoulder, the round was found under the skin.

I watched all the animals cleaned. My observations
1) the bullets all worked as the animals are dead
2) the bullets seemed to do tremendous damage to soft tissue, the liver from the kudu was vertually gone.Damage was at the front of the wound path.
3) the bullets did not do well with heavy bone, if it had not been for the follow up shots on the Eland we may have lost it.
4) published velocity from federal is 2700 feet per second, if hunting eland again I would use a slower , better contructed bullet, I like A frames ,my outfitter said, they have had good success with x bullets.
5)When using this rifle for elk,moose or grizzly , I would like an exit wound. The trackers seemed to follow my animal without any trouble, to me their were allot of tracks (kudu and gymsbok were with other) and I would have prefered a more defined blood trail.By myself, I would have had alot of trouble following the eland (from the blood trail, tracks were obvious in the red soil of africa) as there was not alot of blood.
6) the kudu and gymbok both went 40-50 yards after the shot, which I am sure you all realize only takes a few minutes to cover but it seemed like hours given the ammont of sign.
7)once again the bullets worked,the animals are dead, I just feel others would have worked better.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes.

Don't beat yourself up, you done good.
Suggest next trip try 235 TSXs. You can push them to almost 3000 but you may recover none.
The Barnes are far nastier than a lead core as they dont roll over into a smooth coin like circle (as your's illustrate)

35 225 TSXs 35 Whelen 225-275 yds. Mulie, Elk and Moose all at severe quartering away angles. Full length penetration and 1 shot kills.

I would suggest as well that the Barnes bullets would have given MUCH better results as in exit wounds even when bone is encountered. Glad you were able to collect the animals you shot, hitting, and wounding and losing then paying for an animal really, really sucks.

Good idea to upgrade to these before you are out hunting truly large game again.

Oldman,

Show us the photos of the game that you took with those bullets.

Or, just admit that like all the photos of 'your' rifles that you post, this photo is in the same category.

ZZZZZZzzzziiiinnnggggggggggg!!!


Ingwe

Sadly, it is pretty easy...

I know...its almost not sporting...but theres nuthin else going on tonite.....

Ingwe

TI3006, Thanks for the photos and descriptions. I had been told that the 260 accubond was well matched to the 375 H&H and gave great performance. After seeing your pictures and especially the lack of penetration on that eland, I will be using the 270TSX in my 375. The accubond didnt fail to take your animals but failed to perform as you and I would like. IE. exit holes. Thanks, Dean

lets see the animals

Whew...I was getting worried you wouldnt post that pic again today..

Well, fella's, I may get screwed, but I'm going to shoot 260 Accubond's at eland and zebra this summer. I am a TSX fan, but these things do shoot in my 375. I suppose the only thing I have going for me is that I can only drive these to 2600 fps muzzle velocity from my 20" Sako Mannilcher.

I do know these have worked on at least one Alaskan coastal black. No bullet was recovered.

Just so you know, and this may be something new to consider, bears are very soft and fragile compared to big African ungulates.

You can feel it with your hands when you touch or press the body of a bear it's soft as a human being. They have far less bone strength and sinews and just plain softer body mass.

Compare bears to a Zebra, gemsbok, wildebeest, waterbuck etc. These are as solid as a Fully inflated truck tire. The reaction to bullet impact with herd animals is by a large margin different then individual animals.

I'm not trying to influence your choice, just a little information regarding your comparison. I used to have a 375JDJ handgun. With the 260grain NP it whistled through almost every black bear I have shot with it. That might be in the neighborhood of 20-25 of them. It also exited on several Brown bears. Yet it never exited a single wildebeest, zebra, gemsbok or waterbuck. This comes with first hand experience, not calculated text book ballistics experience.

There is however a significant difference in this analogy, you're shooting the 260's 400fps faster. That will be a huge advantage for you.

I have shot a lot of game, about 40 animals from eland to impala in size, in Africa with Federal's factory 300gr Trophy Bonded load and it has performed perfectly. Shots ranged from maybe 25yds to about 250yds.

Each of the few recovered bullets, that would be three iirc, looked like they belonged in a magazine ad.

Recovered one from an eland which was recovered in the gut after breaking the spine on a frontal shot, one from a wildebeast recovered under the hide on the off side after breaking the off side shoulders, destroying the lungs and heart and one from a waterbuck, can't recall where.

As well as the bullet did on the bigger stuff, it also expanded well and left excellent wound tracks on impala and bushbuck.

And it is accurate as can be, at least in my rifle.

JPK

The 300gr TTBondeds would be a step up from what was used during hunt no 1 but I still stand by my recomedation of TTSX's in any reasonable weight. 260or270 and go slay some stuff!

Have you tried seating the TTSX's really deep and pushing them hard? Just a thought as this will usually solve TSX accuracy issues. If these do not work, try some Swift A-frames as a second good choice before venturing out with the Accubombs. Either way, good luck and good hunting.

I shoot TSX's regularly through other guns. I've not really had problems with them shooting. In fact, I'm taking a .300 Wby with 168gr. TSX's as my primary plains game rifle.

For animals the size of zebra or eland, I'm not too concerned with 1.5 to 2" groups either. On the other hand, the Accubonds shoot into under an inch and I'm not too worried about their performance. My rifle is actually a 20" mannlicher style Sako. I can just get a touch over 2600 fps, so that's as fast as I'm likely to be able to go. I have until July and I may change my mind, but right now that's the path I'm on.

Anyway, I appreciate the input. This is my first trip. Its nice to have someone that's been there with insight.

I have seen both the 250 9.3 and 260 .375 AccuBonds used on quite a few animals, both in North America and Africa. They work very well on game up to 750 pounds or so, but when after something the size of eland or big moose I tend to prefer something a little harder and deeper penetrating, whether a heavy Nosler Partition or a TSX or whatever. I would have no qualms about shooting an eland in the shoulder-bone with a .375 using a 300 Partition or 270 TSX, but have seen eland shoulders stop some smaller and softer bullets.

I've never been but I couldn't sleep at night knowing the magazine was stoked with Accubonds or some such for hunting Eland or the ilk.

Guessing the vital zone is about the size of a Volkswagen so under MOA don't seem overly important, YMMV

Bingo.

JB,
Honest question. If I look at the OP's pics, they look a lot like recovered Partitions normally look. Is the performance really that different? Do they expand so much more rapidly that they don't penetrate as effectively as a Partition?

If Accubonds are really a bad idea, I don't mind spending another $40 on a box of 270 TSX's, cause, in the greater scheme of things this is in the noise of the trip and I won't miss it. My biggest concern with the TSX has been and remains its behavior at a relatively lower terminal velocity from a short barreled rifle.

HS,

Started at 2650 fps, the 270 TSX will still be going 1829 fps at 325 yards...Ty at Barnes told me that the bullet was designed to expand in soft tissue at 1800 fps and above.

Manny

From what I've read the AB is designed to retain about as much weight as a NP but set up much faster. From a short barreled gun with the projectile at lower speed they might be fine. I'm just not a fan of tipped bullets for African game....with one exception; the Swift Scirocco......I've heard good things about them, but have NOT used them myself, but they DO have a much thicker pure copper jacket, unlike the AB which is gilding metal.

I have used the Swift Scirocco. Given the wound channels I've seen, it would be hard to believe that they don't set up very quickly. I've never recovered one of these either, though.

Speaking of pure copper: I've also used the Barnes Original in my .348. These bullets penetrate like the dickens and they expand to about half their size.

HS,

RE Barnes original in 348..... That is great to hear. I have a bunch of 348AI ammo loaded up with 250gr Barnes originals at 2550 and have not had opportunity to give them a try out yet. Looking forward to plastering something with one ASAP.

RE Barnes TSX expansion at lower velocities. I would not expect you to have any issued with yours from your 20 inch bbl'ed 375. they are actually quite reliable expanders at distance and slower speeds, especially in the larger bores. That big hole in the nose of the large bore TSX's catches a LOT of tissue and fluid.

Huntaria,which Scirocco? The original or the II?

Huntaria,

AccuBonds are indeed designed to act much like Partitions, in fact they were partly designed to satisfy the constant whining for a "tipped Partition." Under normal circumstances they retain about as much weight as a Partition of the same size and diameter, but open up a little wider so tend to penetrate a little less. For instance, when I tested .30 caliber 200-grain AB's and 200 Partitions side by side in the same stack of dry newspaper (a very tough test) the Partition retained a little less weight (about 70% to 74% in the AB, as I recall) but penetrated a little more, about 15" versus 14", due to the AB opening up a little wider.

I have seen a 180-grain AccuBond from a .300 Winchester Magnum shot into the shoulder of a big bull eland. The bullet broke the shoulder just above the big joint, but broke up and didn't penetrate into the chest. Another quick shot behind the shoulder put the bull down.

As I noted, I have either used or seen used both the 250-grain 9.3 and 260-grain .375 AccuBond, both at about 2600-2700 fps at the muzzle, on quite a bit of game both in North America and Africa. They are very good bullets, and will penetrate prtetty much the length of a big bull elk or kudu even on a shot into a hip. But an elk or a kudu is not an eland. A really big eland can weigh an honest ton; a friend once killed one that weighed something around 2200 pounds on cattle scales. Most are not that big but 1500 pounds is common.

Please note that I suggested the 300-grain .375 Partition for eland, not the 260-grain. The 270 TSX will do as well. I wouldn't worry at all about expansion from a slightly shorter barrel with either bullet.

Luckily, my own .375 H&H puts all loads from 250 to 300 grains into the same group. Generally I use 300 Partitions as the deep-penetrating bullet, though have used others, including the Fail Safe and X, and just load those when there is the possibility of really big game, whether eland or buffalo. They will work fine on smaller stuff too. Only if the big animal on the list is taken early in the hunt so I switch to a lighter bullet, whether in contruction or weight.

I'll just stick with the 300 gr. 375 bullets..they have served me to perfection for many years..I never liked the lighter bullets and am not a Barnes fan..I really like the 350 gr. Woodleighs, 300 gr. Northforks, 300 gr. Nosler partitions, and in a monolithic I will always pice the 270 gr. GS Customs bullets. If I want to shoot a lighter bullet such as a 250 gr. then I'll go to my .338 and so fourth..

Just my personal choice for the big stuff.

One really never knows as I witnessed Phillip Price with Swartkei Safaris, RSA stick a 100 gr. Corelokt Rem factory bullet in an Elands anus and it penetrated to the off side skin of the front right shoulder perfectly expanded...I credit that to the low velocity of the Remington round..It was perfect performance and a real eye opener "I think" ....Maybe sometimes we push those bullets too fast.

What caliber for the 100 Grain?

The original. In my .300 Wby, it tore a massive hole completely though a quartering away pronghorn and made a mess of 3 different deer, the largest of which pushed an honest 200 lbs.

Well, y'all given me something to chew on. I'm nearly tempted to go shoot a really mean gelding I own just to see how the AB works on something on the order of 1500 lbs. (I keed, I keed, but, well, he really is an ass and not the donkey kind, but I digress).

Since my dad and I are going, we're carrying 2 guns apiece. We'll share the .375. My thoughts were to use it on eland and zebra. I have quite a stash of the 260ABs, so maybe I should go over to the classifieds and see if anyone would like to swap a couple of boxes of AB's for TSX's, then I could carry both.

I'll also take a .348 using the 250 gr. Barnes original on gemsbok and hartebeest.

In all, between us, we'll kill 25 animals, so its quite a list.

One other thing for y'all. Would I have any issues if I took a box of 270 gr. TSX's and a box of 260 gr? From what I've read, it just needs to be of the same caliber, but reading the rules and real-life experiences are two different things.

You reallly should use your 348 on more than just two animals...

Well, here's the list

Kudu
2 Gemsbok
2 Spingbok
Warthog
Hartebeest
2 Zebra
Duiker
Eland
Blue Wildebeest
Springbuck
And, a couple of pick and choose small predators

Of this list, what do you think lends itself to the .348?

Warthog
Duiker
Blue Wildebeest..


Ingwe

Not one of the gemsbok?

It would be cool...


Ingwe

My double rifle friend (who's been to Africa twice) thinks I should just forgo the .375 and other than the kudu, kill everything else with the .348. I will tell you the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on was while hunting with the 71. I did a spot and stalk in a 40 mph wind on a group of antelope. I killed a big fat doe at 150 yds. with the .348.

HS...wait till you get there, check out the terrain and game, tell your PH your honest limitations with each rifle, and go with his advice and your own experience..you'll do fine...Half the fun is trying your own stuff, instead of what everyone else, including the gun rags say...
( apologies to JB... ...)

Ingwe

Now that's fine advice. The 71 wears a peep. If the light is good, I'm good to 150 from sticks and dead steady, 200. Other than that, I can ring a 8" gong at 300 yards from sticks with both the .300 and .375. Working on getting my dad to the same shape at 300. He's fine to 200 now.

Went ahead and ordered the extra box of 270 gr TSX's. A little extra insurance on a $2500 critter don't hurt, I suppose. I don't know whether to be pissed off at myself for being influenced by strangers, or to congratulate myself for being open minded in the face of zero data. I need beef, so I may pay my neighbor for a cow for test practice!

well don't shoot the beef in the "mignon"!!!

Ingwe

Nice looking 'shrooms, TI3006. Here's another option just to look at. http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/ They have a variety of bullet weights. Here's Franz's/North Fork Technologies Facebook page, where you can see critters from his African hunts:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?v=info&ref=ts&id=100000732410648

[img]http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/catalog/product/gallery/id/36/image/52/[/img]

With the level of competence you have with the 348, it could do it all. Rare is the shot taken in Africa of over 100 yards. But I do love the idea of the 270 TSX 375 on Eland, they are HUGE. Use what you and your PH agree on, what you like and what to use, most of all have FUN!

+1... A mature Alaskan Yukon Bull Moose is much tougher to penetrate than a Bear in my experience

I always kept quiet about this because I figured many would say I was full of malarkey.....but the first couple of Alaskan browns I saw skinned and reduced to skeletons,I was surprised at how light-boned they were compared to large ungulates.They were, however very heavily muscled,but like JJ and jwp seem to imply,more "soft" than "hard".....I have since heard that this is true of all the great predators, like lions, tiger,etc

Great bullets for sure, but they are OUTRAGEOUSLY priced. I don't mind paying but I can buy a TSX for about a third and a Swift for about 2/3 of the price of NFs. jorge

The North Forks are a bit spendy,, but nothing compared to what one of my wooden arrows cost. These bullets aren't for everyday target shooting,, but I figure that for going all the way to have an incredible life experience/hunt, the cost of a pizza is all that we're really talking 'bout, and the payoff of bullet integrity and mass-shape retention is well worth it.

I went up to Philomath, here in Oregon, to pick up a box of .308's and got to learn about the metallurgy that goes into these bullets. Very impressive quality of materials and actual processing/heating-cooling, to produce a bullet that won't peel back, or come apart.

Thanks for at least looking at them and giving a civil reply!

The 348 could do it all easily and would be a lot of fun. It would be very similar to the .350 Rigby Magnum which was one of John Taylor's favorite for Eland.

I agree with what the others have said and would err on the side of a too tough bullet for the large plains game. It is interesting to see how highly the Barnes bullets are thought of in Africa with very little of the bashing of them you see on the internet. Might be due to the use of 30 and larger caliber or the toughness of the game, I don't know.

I had very erratic performance with the discontinued 260 grain ballistic tips. So I kind of lumped the Accubond in that category until proven otherwise. They are good at longer ranges.

I have a good spply I bought from Mike before he closed down Great bullets to be sure, but TSXs are my bullet of choice now and SAFs for my 416 because I have a lifetime supply ! jorge

Hatari,
Sorry it was a Salo L series .243 shooting the 100 gr. factory corelokt..penetrated lengthwise in an Eland, and a huge bull at that...
I don't particularly understand why Nosler came out with the Accubond when their fame is the partition bullet, and if it ain't broke don't fix it,

But hey! I'll always take another option to play with..and perhaps the Accubond is better for the lighter animals and in the lighter calibers..I have never been quite satisfied with the Nosler partition in the 22, 6mm or even the 25 calibers..It works but it leaves something to be desired on ocassions in that it doesn't have a big cross section and exit holes are small and blood trail can be less than desireable on ocassions..Maybe the Accubond will correct that. I have always liked the cup and core bullets such as the corelokt, Hornady Interlock, Speer and Win. PPs or Silvertips in the 22, 6mm and 250 Savage and 257 Roberts over the premium bullets..

Barsness beat me to it by a few pages. Looks like a great soft game bullet but not what I would want for Eland or Moose.

OTOH, those 260s would be great deer bullets. My brother took his whitetail with that very bullet last fall.