Got my SCI rag in the mail yesterday. Noticed an article about eland hunting, and since an eland is on my list for next June I read the article first. Finally got to the end where the petite lady smacks a giant eland at 196 yards with a 260 Rem. Perfect shot no less. The pics look this eland to be 1200 lbs plus.

I've been to Africa and have seen Eland and they are big, especially a mature bull. I'm going back next June and have eland on my list, right after waterbuck. I'm planning on using 9.3x62 or 300 H&H as my heavy rifle and 7mm08 for the light PG stuff.

Just wondering if that 260 use on eland was a smart choice?

Not my idea..I've been within 30 yards of several and my .338 felt ..well, small..
Good shot for the lady tho...

No one with any brains will argue shot placement is not key but, I would seek to do as much damage as possible to an animal of that size and his major organs. I would prefer a 36 or 37 caliber rifle over a 25 or 26 or 27 caliber rifle. I suspect I would also try to break him down if given the opportunity by breaking the shoulder complex.

Personally, unless I could not shoot a larger rifle I would not go that route. And if I could not shoot a larger rifle then I would likely pass on the species altogether.

the 260 aint much different than the 6.5x55 and 6.5x54MS which killed a hell of alot of large game.....that said my understanding from what ive read is eland can put alot of distance between you and them without alot of effort with their lope and generally your on a limited time frame on your hunts anymore....as much as im a 6.5 slut i think i would prefer something a tad bigger cause i really wouldnt want to spend any more than i had to chasing hit game....course as the gal showed if you can put the bullet in the righ place it shouldnt be a problem......but i still think i would prefer something a lil bigger....

They shoot moose in Sweden with 6.5x55's all the time so why not. Sorta the same size.

I've shot three Eland. Two with a .338 Win Mag. and one with a 375 H&H. They're big animals who can absorb alot of lead. Personally, I wouldn't use anything smaller than a .338 or one of the 30 caliber magnums with a premium bullet.

I have no doubt I could kill a cape buffalo with a 30'06. Doesn't mean it is the best caliber to use on one.

YEP!

Wieght on a big bull eland is way over the 1,200 lbs you estimated. Double that and you will be closer. Think of a Clydsdale with horns and you will be getting a better idea. they are freaking HUGE and can take a lot of killin.

Here is one of mine, my biggest and best, for comparison and sizing. I am 6'4" and 255lbs for reference.

Mark.

I'm sure you got some mighty tasty steaks out of the filets on that one. Ummmm good!

Mark that's a monster congratulations.

To attempt a shot at an eland at that distance with that caliber is irresponsible. In this case it obviously worked but would you have read about it if they were still trying to locate the eland?

Try and purposefully hit between two ribs of any animal at that distance and see if it works.

Eland are huge. I've only shot one, but I surely was careful with my .30-'06. The weight on mine was 1,069Kg ... 2,352 pounds.

By the way, both of my Professional Hunters on that particular trip had been charged and badly hurt by eland during previous safaris. Neither had ever been bothered by Cape buffalo. Intersting.

Blessings,

Steve

If there were eland in Alaska, there would be guys recommending a .223 AI.

.......................I like reading about the exploits (advance teams so to speak) of others such as using a 260 Rem on large eland.

Good to know the 260 worked so well. Then when I go to Africa someday for the first time, I know and can be well assured that when doing my part, either of my three cartridges below will certainly work extremely well.

To me that's just crazy and frankly irresponsible. Can it be done? of course. I'm just a neophyte but to me the smallest caliber I'd feel comfortable with is a 300 and with a Premium bullet.

I agree. I've shot two, both with a .375 H&H and I wouldn't recommend going with any less than a .338. If everything is perfect, I am sure a smaller caliber would work just fine, but I had to take a severe quartering away shot on my second eland. When he was skinned we were able to determine that the 300gr tsx had penetrated about five feet to reach the vitals. I was confident in the shot with the 375, but would not have taken it with anything less than a .338 and would have missed out on a 40+ inch eland of a lifetime.

PeterKriel and Jorge be careful with the irresponsible talk! You're bordering on ethics and we all damned well know America is now a nation of moral relativists. So, if it's good enough for a little girl to pop a big beastie like that with a deer rifle then the rest of us should butt out because it's all about her and what makes her clock tick...

What did PHC say in one of his stories, "It's simply not done, Old Boy. At least not by Gentlemen and sportsmen." Sadly a time now gone by.

what i would do when i have a whole hunting season and what i would do when i only have 7 days to get everything done in are two different things.....the 6.5x54 was one of the preferred rounds of turn of the century big game hunters on anything short of the big 5.....by serious hunters....

i have no doubt that a 260 will work on eland, if eland lived in Montana and i got to hunt them regularly with a 6 week season a 260 with premiums wouldnt phase me.....but when ive got 7-10 days and alot of other critters i would also like to shoot DRT beats tracking so something like a 338 Win or 9.3x62 and holding on bone has alot of appeal....a half day traking an animal thats dead on its feet is likely more time than i want to spend....

This discussion is headed towards the circle-jerk abyss. You can also kill eland with a muzzle loader or even a 22. You can also use a spear. There's a reason as to why there are many calibers to choose from; depending of course on common sense and the size of the animal. And please spare me the "Pondoro" Taylor exegesis about the 7X57 & 256 Manlicher on elephant. For me a 375 H&H, but I'm just a neophyte...

And I thought a bull moose was a big animal... sheesh.

just finished J.A. Hunter's book 'Hunter', in it he comments in his career hunting elephant changed from being no problem with something like a 7x57 to it being dangerous because of where the elephants were hunted changed from the open plains to thick cover....a major reason Bell used a 7x57 is cause he shot elephants from the top of a ladder in tall grass and a something like a 500 would knock his arse off....with good shooting a 7x57 was actually damn near ideal as the shots were also on the long side....not so much in the thick brush where shots were in the dozens of feet....

have no qualms going after elk witha 260 but i get to hunt them regularly with a long season....im not on a time crunch where i dont want to spend a couple hours tracking if things dont happen perfect which is whats happening on an eland hunt.....DRT and move on to the next challenge is a good thing....

BTW i have Taylor's books aswell.....he doesnt recommend a 7x57 for elephant either cause he was also one of the later hunters that was hunting in the thick stuff and not the open plains

You mean Karamojo Bell?

As far as the OP's question, You can shoot anything with anything. It's when you make a habit out of it that it blows up in your face.

Because most of us shoot Moose behind the shoulder. African game has it's vitals behind the shoulder meaning you have to go for the shoulder shot. A lot more bone in the way means you need more gun.

No, most African plains doesn't have any more of its vitals behind the shoulder. They can be killed neatly with a behind-the-shoulder shot, just like deer, caribou, elk and moose (I've done it many times) but you sure don't want to put the bullet too far behind the shoulder, especially on certain animals.

African PH's like hunters to shoot 'em in the shoulder because it usually results in a shorter blood trail, and because so much game gets killed over there on a typical safari that they don't worry about shot-up meat. Plus, a lot of the native help will eat bloodshot meat without any qualms.

During my only battle with an Eland I felt decidedly under gunned with a 375/300 partition. It took 4 rounds to bring him down, with a lengthy chase between each shot.
The first shot was quartering away at about 200 yds. We found that bullet, perfectly mushroomed, in the center of the huge pile of wet grass that filled the rumen. Never reached the chest cavity.

Point being, if you hit 'em perfectly, a lot of cartridges will work. But otherwise you could be in for quite a ride.



Pete

Um...no it's in the same places.

Dogzapper that animal is HUGE!

My PH's and my expereince is that most African animals DO carry thier lungs and heart a good deal more forward than do deer, and similarly to out Elk but some even further forward than even an Elk. Wildebeast come immediately to mind havnig had rib shot Wildebeast run long and hard for far too long. Best bet on African animlas is to shoot them through the shoulder and on into the vitals from there if at all possible.

I guess it depends on what's mean by "behind the shoulder" or "in the shoulder."

Americans are used to shooting deer quite a ways behind the shoulder. This works because the typical factory deer bullet makes a big hole in the rear half of both lungs.

I've always preferred to shoot broadside deer, elk, moose and African game in the crease just behind the angle of the shoulder bones, about 1/3 of the way up the body. This is indisputably behind the shoulder, since it the bullet may or may not catch the edge of the shoulder muscle, and it definitely won't hit any of the bone. It will, however, center the top of the heart and both lungs. I've killed not only gemsbok, wildebeest and kudu with this shot, but piles of American game, including elk, moose and black and grizzly bears.

In fact, I've found African PH's so obsessed with the shoulder shot that they can't see evidence that it isn't necessary. About 10 years ago I was hunting in the Karoo region of South Africa, and a herd of gemsbok bulls came out of a draw. The PH and I picked out the best one when they paused on the ridge, and I shot it in the crease behind the shoulder with a 260-grain .375 bullet, the range about 200 yards. By the time I got another round in the chamber the bull was tipping over.

We went over to take some photos, and about that time my hunting partner showed up from over the ridge. Turned out his scope had gone bonkers. We were talking photos of my gemsbok when the herd came trotting back by for some reason. I handed my .375 to my partner and when the herd paused about 150 yards away he put the same bullet through the shoulders of a bull. It broke the near shoulder but missed the bone on the far shoulder. The gemsbok staggered around for a while before falling. In fact it stayed on its feet longer, and went a little farther, than the one I'd just shot behind the shoulder.

The PH looked at me and said, "Did you see how quickly that bull went down? Yours would have too if you'd shot in the shoulder!" At that point I wondered which universe he'd been in for the previous 20 minutes!

It does not surprise me that she got the job done with a 260. Also, it looks like she was using a model 7 which has a barrel that is 18.5 inches.

Most americans, who have lots of opinions and little to no experience, think that bigger is better and arm themselves accordingly. Eland are big but unless you shoot them where they are big you don't need a cannon. Example, if you stab a 100 pound woman or a 300 pound man thru the front of the chest with a 5 inch blade the result will be the same. Now if you stab the 300 pound man thru his heel it is a different story. Most women shoot more carefully and well within their self imposed limits. Many guys think there are no limits to their skill or the ability of their gear. No wonder they have problems.

Friend Bob,

Yeah, he is a monster.

I shot him on a large farm up near the Limpopo. He was the original eland bull on the property and he was exactly 26 years old ... he was a known character. The locals called him "Madala" meaning Old Man.

For a couple of months before we got there, Madala had gathered a herd of cows and he was quite possesive of them. The land owner told me that he could not breed and he would not allow any other eland bull to breed his cows.

So, he had to be put down.

One of the game guards knew where he hung out, so we started hunting him. Somehow, we managed to get everything right and quite soon, my PH and I were sitting on a trail and Madala was coming straight towards us. He was at the lead of the herd and he STOPPED at 50 7ards.

I had an angling shot from the front, so I put the Heavy Duplex on the crease between his neck and his shoulder. At the shot, he tipped upside down, with all four legs in the air ... unmoving. He was absolutely stone dead.

My PH, who is Oom Paul Kruger's great grandson,, muttered "Holy schit, that .30-'06 is loaded with dynamite!!!"

At the butchery, we found that my bullet had slipped in front of the shoulder and absolutely centered the spine. The Hornady 180 Interlocked destroyed one vertabrae, cracked two others and penetrated to stop under the inch-thick hide behind the far shoulder.

During the autopsy, I found an old, old, old 9.3 bullet that someone planted in Madala's left shoulder. The 9.3 bullet was fully expanded, but obviously didn't close the deal on Madala.

Kjeld Kruger, my PH, told me "Steve, my friend, THAT is a trophy that any Afrikaaner would treasure. Can you imagine all the hardships, winters, fights with other bulls this magnificent animal has been through in his impossibly long life?"

We agreed that going down to a bullet was a fitting end to Madala. To starve to death in old age was not. Better to die a Warrior's Death.

Madala lives on in our minds and his shoulder mount is on the wall ... I'm looking at him as I type this. He was a grand and wonderful old fighter, that bull who gave his life for me. MADALA.

Blessings,

Steve

I thought the general rule of thumb is to use the largest caliber you can shoot well which can be relied upon to reach the game animal's vital organs from any reasonable shooting angle presented. If so, the 260 rem may be a suitable cartridge choice if one is willing to wait for a perfect shot presentation.

Time is money in Africa,Eland ain't cheap....

If your asking the question, you may be in doubt, and that's the real poison pill, doubt. If YOU think its not enough gun, then it's not. If you do, then it does. Go with what you are comfortable and confident in... that's the key, IMO.

Rin: I apologize for the nasty post I originally wrote below in response to yours above. This place has taken a turn for the worse in civility, and I guess it rubbed me the wrong way. I could have deleted it, but it would not have been the right thing to do. Again my apologies. j

Well if we follow that silly analogy, then a five inch blade affixed to a stick will work very well I suppose. It's patently obvious a 260 will kill an eland, but as another posted alluded to, eland are BIG and expensive. So if you want to play up the skill level, wait for the perfect shot with a 260,knock yourself out, only don't tell me it's as good as a 375 for that application and bigger IS better all else being equal.

As for shot placement, I not that picky so I just go for the front leg, follow it up about 1/3 and he's toast. It's that simple. Oh and American should be capitalized....

jorge,

I guarantee RinB has killed more eland than you, some with cartridges under .30 caliber.

Yes, Eland are VERY big. If you've never seen one up close, they are an amazing animal. My first encounter was walking over a hillside and finding myself right in front of 7 of them at about 25 yards. YIKES! The earlier post describing an Eland as a 1,200 lb antelope got me wondering...maybe if he was born last week! :-)

I've taken both Cape Eland and Lord Derby Eland on multiple hunts. The first two went down with a 140 grain NP from a 7mm RM. Thinking that was marginal, I then used a 8mm Mag with 220 Barnes X. Not bad, but the scenario led me to use 250 grain TSX in the 9.3 x 62 and 250 grain solid in the same.

Funny thing is, none of them traveled more than 100 yards. Maybe the one struck with the solid went a bit further. All were dead and tasted good on the grill! Don't overthink this.

"A knife in the heart beats 10,000 ft/lbs in the ass"

J D Jones

I guarantee just about everybody on this thread has killed more eland than me. And Bell killed more elephants than everybody on this Website (and AR) combined with a 7X57 as well.

Steve: Fabulous story about Madala! I can tell by your enthusiastic writing that the animal means a great deal to you.

Certain animals live with us forever,and that is one sign of a true hunter. Bravo!

Thanks for sharing that with us!

.325WSM with either 200 grain Accubonds or triple shocks have worked for us.

jorge,

And Bell did it 100 years ago. RinB has done it in the last 25 years.

My admittedly limited experience with both eland and moose, their northern equivalent, is that both succumb pretty quickly to good shot placement with bullets that penetrate sufficiently. (Ain't that a magic insight?)

Sometimes a bigger bullet will make them lie down quicker, and sometimes a really big bullet will get through the shoulder bones better--if it's necessary to break shoulder bones. But deep-penetrating bullets from .30 caliber and even smaller bullets can provide plenty of penetration, and if a small bullet punches a hole in the vitals, then the deal's done.

One of my hunting partners once shot an eland in the big joint connecting the shoulder blade with the upper leg bone, with a good 180-grain bullet from a .300 Winchester Magnum. (I was right beside him so witnessed the whole deal, including the post-mortem.) The eland started limping off, so he put another round into it--which landed in the crease behind the shoulder I mentioned in an earlier post. The eland wobbled about 20 yards and went down. Turned out the first bullet hadn't gone through the joint.

Was the bullet "inadequate"? Yeah, obviously. But if he'd put the first one just behind the joint (where the second one landed) it would have been a one-shot kill.

My first eland was shot at around 200 yards with a .338 Winchester Magnum and 250-grain Nosler Partitions. The bullet landed exactly where I aimed, but the bullet deflected on a 1/4" thornbush branch and entered sideways. It was the only branch anywhere near the aiming point, and I couldn't have hit it again with the rest of the box of ammo. Luckily, the eland only went 100 yards before stopping, really sick, and was finished off with another bullet that went through both lungs.

Did the weight of the .338 bullet make a big difference? I dunno. Maybe a 6.5mm bullet wouldn't have hit the branch, and gone on in normally, killing the eland neatly!

The one moose I shot with the 7x57 died within 19 yards. The one moose I've seen shot with the .270 went one yard. I've also seen eland and moose lost after being shot with "big" rounds, usually due to somebody flinching.

It's great to use a cartridge so powerful the hunter has plenty of confidence, but I've also seen many hunters who flinched and wounded game due to the recoil of the powerful cartridge they believed in, and consequently lost game. That tendency (in both my experience and that of many guides) begins at the .300 magnum recoil level. An eland or moose shot in the right place with a 7x57 or .30-06 dies pretty quickly, and one hit badly with a .338 or .375 magnum doesn't.

Have seen a lot of quick kills on all sorts of supposedly tough African plains game--and also a bunch of rodeos. The caliber and bullet weight hasn't mattered as much as the bullet's performance and the shot placement.

JFC those animals are gigantic.

They are indeed BIG. Amazingly graceful as well. I've seen Eland nonchalantly walk up to an 8ft high fence and clear it with ease.

I shot my Eland with a 30/06 and a 165gr Nosler partition, handload. Hit it behind the last rib on the left side and bullet went in (angling R-L), through to the right shoulder. He went about 50 yards, maybe further and died. The PH had shot at the same time (It was almost dark, he was moving, and had a broken leg, we wanted him down fast). The PH was shooting a 458 and hit him on the left shoulder (remember at an angle) bullet went in under the skin, out the front of the skin, into the neck, under the skin, and ended up behind the jaw bone. The big bullet didn't slow him down, and probably he'd gone off if not hit with the 30 caliber bullet, that went through the vitals.. very nice Eland, but very thin do to the injuries. But still over a 1000 lbs.

According to the Pocket Field Guide of African Hunter: Shot Placement (no page numbers)
"Minimum Caliber: 338 Win
Recommended Caliber: 9,3 x 62 and 375
Notes on hunting and shot placement:..... Although not dangerous, like buffalo, this large bodied animal will withstand poorly placed shots."

There is not much more I am going to add to this apart from: if you are hunting with me I will not allow you to shoot an eland with a 260.

Is that your old 300 RUM?

Based off that I'm aiming for the shoulder (not the shoulder blade mind you).

It really is. Seeing kudu jump fences reminds me of an equestrian event. Eland look to be too big to get any air time, but put those power hind legs to work.

............Agreed! Not going to rush out and buy a 260 Rem for large African game.

If legal to do so, I`m sure big eland can be killed with a high powered 22 cal or with a 243 with the right bullets and shot placements. Some I`m sure would be willing to try.

A 260 Rem would not be my first choice for use on 1,200+ lb big eland.

But because that was accomplished on a big eland and done so very effectively with a 260 Rem, this very informative thread does offer better assurances to those of us who do have and would much prefer using our larger and more powerful calibers/cartridges for large eland.

................18.5" barrel uh?.....Well in that case when I venture over to S/Africa someday, no need to leave my 300 WSM Ruger shorty compact at home for concerns of being under-gunned for large plains game.

I like reading the success stories of the (guinea pig) advance teams.....

Yes sir, that it is. In a Model 70 classic topped with a Burris EuroDiamond 2-10x44 Posi Lock Scope and stuffed full of ammo tpped with 180gr Barnes TSX's at 3200fps. One of the finest hunting weapons I have ever owned, perieod, ever. If it had not been so NOISY and if it had not been for an expensive divorce right after I retunred form the next years trip in which I took the Kudu and other game I would still happliy own it. Took a big bull Kudu on that next trip over with it at 350 long paces, and just after that spring a Black bear at a lazered 445 yards, DRT.

Might have to get me another just like some day it but in 300WBY. A better balanced and less noisy cartridge.

"One of my hunting partners once shot an eland in the big joint connecting the shoulder blade with the upper leg bone, with a good 180-grain bullet from a .300 Winchester Magnum. (I was right beside him so witnessed the whole deal, including the post-mortem.) The eland started limping off, so he put another round into it--which landed in the crease behind the shoulder I mentioned in an earlier post. The eland wobbled about 20 yards and went down. Turned out the first bullet hadn't gone through the joint.

Was the bullet "inadequate"? Yeah, obviously. But if he'd put the first one just behind the joint (where the second one landed) it would have been a one-shot kill."

This is exactly why I use plenty of gun shooting a two thousand pound animal. I have shot a bunch of big game animals and spent a career in the Army. I would never claim to have the experience of John, but the point is I know my way around a rifle. I am confident that I "could" kill an eland with a 6.5, .270, or lightweight Bee of some persuasion, but why on earth would I want to do so. That eland is in my sights because I just spent a ton of money to get on that set of sticks. I am about to spend a bunch more when I pull that trigger - whether the bullet lodges in a joint or does what it is supposed to do.

No matter how confident we are of putting it in the crease, everyone can screw up a shot. The animal moves, the unseen twig, rotation of the earth, God's intervention, whatever - anyone can screw up a shot. For me I like the size of the error window afforded by a .338 to .375 class cartridge. My new favorite large PG rifle is a .318 Westley Richards Express with the traditional 250 gr load. Would I shoot an eland with a 150 gr 7 - 7.62mm rifle if it was all I had - probably. But at around 3K a shot, I'm going to make sure I don't have to do so.

Eland BTW, weigh a ton or thereabouts, I was impressed with my 375 H&H and 300gr Swift A-Frames and if I ever get to Alaska, I'll probably use the same thing or at a minimum a 33 with 250gr TSXs. I'm sure a 260 Rem with precise shot placement will kill a Kodiak, they weigh considerably less than an eland, but I have to ask myself a question, do I feel lucky? I've never won anything in my life so I think I'll stick with the bigger the better the tighter the sweater principle and there I know what I'm talking about!

Ain't that something to see? I saw a herd of about a dozen go over a 6' cattle fence, as easy as could be!

I shot an Eland bull with a 6.5x55 a quarter century ago. It died pretty quickly, although it managed to stay on its feet long enough for me to stick 3 156 grain Norma SPs into its vitals.

If I came across another "worthy of the wall" Eland with that rifle/cartridge/bullet combination in hand, I'd feel confident in my ability to make the shot if it was within by comfort zone. Same/same with a 260 loaded with a good stout bullet, maybe a 140 grain Partition or something similar.

I guess that would prevent me from hunting with you. Bummer.

Jeff

I hunted an area where sheep were kept in by a 4' fence and a herd of eland cleared it without breaking stride. One would not have known the fence existed at all except the fence posts gave it away. We were driving out to the area where we were hunting and there was a half mile of fence we drove past each morning out.

They are a beautiful animal that remind me of brahma bulls except for the horns, and meatier bodies. I agree that the 338 would be my minimum choice, with the 375 my first choice. Their bone structure is pretty strong where they bare weight.

Randy

I'm surprised nobody has commented on the quality of an eland filet. Top quality stuff.

My favorite African table fare without a doubt.

Please Jeff do not let my small oversight make you think you are not welcome! On the contrary I will gladly hand you my 375 when we see an eland

Some hunters just have the ability to shoot extremely well in which case using a 260 will suffice, like it has been pointed out by others previously. I have only ever had the privelige of hunting with two snipers (USMC and SWAT) who could shoot anything at any distance. Barry loved the Free State plains because soon as I said shoot that one he would say, ok now lets move back a couple hundred yards. If at 200 yards I told him to shoot an eland right below the left ear he would and there will be only one result.

If you could do the same I would have no worries about allowing you to do so but I'm not going to advise it be done by one and all.

I had a 375 with me, but can't see why you wouldn't to shoot a lighter rifle that kills them just as dead and doesn't kick nearly as hard.

Allow me to shoot?

My nickel, my choice.

Jeff

My point and my experience is that a good bullet well placed always works, and I mean always. A bigger faster good bullet also works. However, I have never been able to observe any difference in the outcome. So feel free to shoot the bigger faster outfit but don't tell me the "lesser" outfit does not work for then I will be forced to gently but firmly advise you that you are full of prunes. In contrast, put that big fast bullet in the wrong place and I promise that you will have a rodeo of the unhappy sort.

If I were full of prunes I would not have a lot of the other stuff in me

So many rules so many exceptions to the rules. I cannot agree with you more, but there have been more large bodied animals lost with smaller calibers than with larger calibers. I think it was RAC earlier in the thread that said you can kill just about any animal with just about any caliber, but it's not what we want to do all the time. My dad shot beef cows with a 22 but then we were some feet from it and he could brain it.

It still is your nickel and your choice and again, if you have the ability of killing it with a single shot you will kill it. I have spent too many countless days tracking wounded animals and that's why I do not want hunters to shoot large animals with smaller caliber rifles. I once spent 2 1/2 days tracking a wounded eland that was shot with a 270 on a 2X1 hunt. The result is 2 1/2 days wasted hunting time of both the hunter and the hunting companion. I have never lost an eland that was shot with a 375.

Moral relativism! Moral relativism!

I gotta ask but, on the eland that led you on the less than merry chase for 2.5 days how was the shot placement of the first round?

Thx
Dober

Side note, while I realize that from time to time crap happens and people yip a shot.

I'd like to say that it's been my experience over the years that if people have a tough time making good shots with a light to moderate recoiling rifle. Then sticking a heavier recoiling round in their paws won't be for doing them and or the critters any favors...

Dober

Mr Kriel,
I was not thinking to you. I regret that you thought I was. I am truly sorry for offending you. I wish you well.

RinB I took no offense at all. Thanks for the thought though.

Dober it was a quartering away shot placed just above the elbow and slightly too far back. It hit a rib/bone and deflected up towards the shoulder. If there was a deflection prior to the projectile hitting the target I am unsure of it.

I am willing to wager that the next question will be if a larger caliber would have done better? All things being equal I believe a larger caliber would have done better.

The same old 24hourcampfire argument that every cartridge (no matter how small) kills every animal (no matter how big) just as well as everything else. I pity the sport who has never hunted and gets his knowleadge from this site as he will wonder why he needs anything beyond a .22 Hornet for all around big game hunting. I'm use to the reasoning here though so I just dismiss it. I mean if the .243 is as good as the .25-06 is as good as the .270 is as good as the .30-06 is as good as the .35 Whelen then the .243 is as good as the .35 Whelen for all game in all situations. Thankfully I'm not dumb enough to buy in.

When I was young I hunted everything with a 6.5x55 Swede. It is arguably a ballistic equivalent of the 260. Moose, deer, big bear, rabbits and upland birds. No problems as it and I were both good shooters. I made earnings hunting down wounded bear that outfitters either could not or did not want to recover. Head or rather CNS shots were the order of the day.

And then one day I met the exception. A big boar came out of the tag alders at 30 meters. My round hit him 1" above and between the eyes. He kept coming and my second shot went over his head and through his c7 spine he was so close to me. His momentum carried him through knocking me on my back. Gentlemen the sticky brown stuff happens from time to time in spite of our best preparation. The first bullet deflected off the skull slowing down but not stopping the boar.

The next week there was a gun show in Vermillion Bay and I put out the sheckles for a 338 win mag Ruger tang safety. Actually it was my wife who bought it as I was manning a booth.

I still have my 6.5x55 and it is a fine cartridge as I am sure the 260 is. It keeps the safe warm when I am hunting for bear though, and it sulked when I did not take it to Africa. They do that you know.

Randy

Well said, and I am of this opinion as well. The newer (Read BARNES) bullets DO allow each cartridge one full step up in power such as a 243 now acts like a 270 etc. Ross Seyfreid stated when he used the first prototype X bullets in a 30/06 back in the mid 1980's that it "Made his 30/06 think it was a 375" and reported that it was hitting and killing big feral animals in Austrailia on the maiden voyage hunt with these bullets just like he would expect a 375 to do but that is a modest jump up in power and capability. A .224 TSX, as great as they are, does not make one's 223 a 375. It makes it about like what we used to think of as 243 performance and nothing more.

For big stuff, we still want and need deep, straight line penetration and a BIG hole for blood to leak out of, and TWO holes with one going in and one going out of the animal.

Well lets not be silly. Of course you can go too small. I think that 6.5 is at the edge, but will get the job done if the shooter shoots well. It has good bullets of acceptable weight. I will be the first to agree that bigger is just fine if and only if the shooter can deliver the goods as well as with a 6.5 or something similar. The long range game shooters think a 6.5-284 or 264 is just great on elk at over 700 yards. Run the numbers and compare them to a 260 or 6.5x55 at 300 yards.

Lastly, a single instance or a few is pretty scant info upon which to base an opinion.

It still begs the question, assuming shot placement of course, would one be comfortable shooting a Kodiak Bear or a lion with a 260 or is the 375 more suited for the task at hand?

The cost of the hunt breaks any tie when I am deciding on what caliber to choose over another.

Why go to either extreme? You might ask Phil Shoemaker what he thinks is an adequate or good cartridge for large bears. I'm sure the same round would work well for lions, which are considerably smaller than the large bears.

This topic has been beaten to death. If I was rich I would buy a bunch of 260 Remingtons and pay for everybody here to go on an Eland hunt with Pieter as PH. Unlimited time for hunting and everybody would wait for that perfect broadside shot and would probably come back with a nice eland. The trouble is, you have limited time and that opportunity may not be presented as the "perfect shot" Personally, I would rather have a larger, heavier bullet for that less than perfect shot. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

I will restate what I said earlier with a difference. Given unlimited time, I could take a cape buffalo with a .22 Magnum. But you can bet I would pass on a lot of opportunities before that "absolute perfect shot" presented itself.

The reason the topic has been beaten to death here on the Campfire is that enough people have personally experienced or seen success on numerous occasions with smaller (much smaller in some cases) cartridges than the cartridges some people are adamant in saying are the minimum. Some of those same people with a lot of experience have seen the mis-application of larger than required cartridges with very negative results.

Yes, everyone should "use enough gun." However, there is some common sense (or not-so-common good sense) needed in deciding what is enough, and some people tend to go to one extreme and others tend to go to the other extreme. It is useful to know what is the range of cartridges that would be expected to work every time a hunter took what most people would consider a reasonable shot (a shot into the chest from the front or side, not through the back end). That is why the topic gets discussed endlessly.

Adequate? probably a 3006. Ideal? a 375 H&H and I've never even hunted one of them. For lion? My uncle took his in Mozambique in the 60s with a 270. I also remember a story in a magazine called Argosy, where somebody took a big brown bear with a 22. There's a difference between "adequate" and sensible and that's my point.

Yep, and it's largely because some people are so attached to their opinions that these kinds of discussions are like some drugs, highly addictive..

Jorge,

Based on what I've read (I haven't hunted large bears or lions, either), ideal is probably the same as "adequate" for the large majority of people, or said another way "adequate" is ideal for many people.

You may be in the 20% or so at one end of the spectrum who shoots large bores well and likes doing so enough to work at practicing to do so. There might be 10 to 20% of the population at the other end of the spectrum who, for a variety of reasons, even with the best training and coaching couldn't shoot large bores adequately. Then you have the 60% to 70% of us in the middle who might be able to shoot large bores well if we really applied ourselves, but (a) don't have any interest in shooting African bovines or elephants (and therefore don't have any need to shoot large bores) and (b) realize that we still shoot smaller cartridges better than larger cartridges even with considerable practice and don't actually need mega magnums for the deer and even elk that we might hunt.

For deer I like the 257 Weatherby and should I ever hunt elk, it would depend on the terrain and the ranges involved but an 06 I think would be just about perfect and it ranges were longer one of the 300s. Speaking of 300s, that's probably what I would call a good eland caliber with good bullets. I'm not a believer in overkill by any stretch of the imagination, but as a few have stated here, those kinds of hunts are expensive as well as the trophy fees and I do believe one should shoot the largest caliber they can handle.

I am NOT being critical....

Your statements give a very practical answer or explanation for a lot of people.

I have a few friends (not critical) that fit into that category.

I don't consider MYSELF a big bore shooter. 1 338 WM hurt and 1 375 HH was NOT nearly as punishing. From 8mm RM down I don't have any problems. Especially with a stock that fits me.

EVERYBODY does not have to shoot big boomers...

EVERYBODY does not NEED to shoot mild cartridges.

EVERYBODY has CHOICES.

+1

I spent half a day tracking an eland do to some poor shooting on my part. I was shooting a 300 Win Mag with 180 gr Swift A Frames. While I was planning on using a 416 Rem Mag with 350 gr Swift A Frames, in this instance it would have made little difference. My shot was high, but thankfully it did make for a good blood trail. I don't think a 50 BMG would have made a difference.

Point being, in this case caliber would not have made a difference, good shooting would have made all the difference in the world

For what it's worth

OK, let's put this stupid [bleep] debate to an end once and for all. A .260 aint' enough gun, take a .338 Win Mag or a .375 H&H and put it on its face in the dirt.

Nuff said!

I like a couple of others here actually HAVE hunted nearly all of the worlds Large and or dangerous game and most of the big game in the US and have taken more than one trophy specimen of most. The 260 is an OK deer cartridge, thats it. There are much better ones (257WBY comes immediately to mind) but it is a nice mild round for most folks taking most shots one would get at a deer. Simple as that. From there, it is highly adviseble to go up in rifle caliber and power as one can without sacrificing good shot placement.

Also well said, and right on the money.

Hear, hear! Well, errrrrr, except for those pesky facts, where I've taken Livingstone and Giant (Lord Derby) quite handily with the 7 Rem Mag, Dad and I each common Cape with the .300 Win, and Dad a second with the .270 Win.

Also saw my best friend and business partner, the most experienced and finest hunter I'm ever to know, flub one a bit back on a Giant with a .330 Dakota, to finish him the next afternoon with my pet 7 Rem...

Yeah, gee, it's not like a .338-.375 cartridge has never wounded an eland.

I've hunted a little here and there, and seen plenty of game from trophy deer to eland shot around the edges with various magnums from the .300's up. The hunters were using powerful rifles because they'd been told they HAD TO in order not to wound game--and then wounded game anyway.

A couple of years ago on this forum some guy was asking if his .30-06 was enough for plains game. He'd heard so much about how tough African animals are that he was afraid .30-06 bullets would barely get through the skin.

This argument appears so frequently on the Campfire that we should have some sort of icon that anyone can use to flag it, warning rational people away from the thread.

Apart from all the killing everyone does....

is there an angled shot you wouldn't take with the 260 & appropriate bullet, that you would take with a larger caliber and appropriate bullet--or does modern bullet construction account for that?

That's the thing when you ask what "would you use"
On my last trip to Africa I took a 375 and 308. The 375 for me to try the 270 TSX and the 308 for my kids. This was the eastern cape of SA so not your typical selection for calibers. We made shots up to 450 yards but what I used would not be what you think you would use in the Eastern Cape which is more wide open. Had I not been taking the kids I would not have taken the 308 which is funny to say because it worked so dang well.
Having kids has taught me allot about not overthinking my caliber choices for hunting.
Rifle looneyism over times causes blurry vision

None of the 3 PH's I know would have allowed the shot with a .260 Rem regardless of shot distance. They all have a .30 caliber minimum on Eland. On my trip in 2009 I took my Eland with a .338 Winchester loaded with 225gr A-frames.

Load your .300 H&H with 200gr A-frames and you should be just fine.

Yes, but for some of us Campfire regulars who read and absorb as much as we can from the experiences of hunters who have killed numerous animals, these kind of threads still have some useful information. I for one appreciate being able to be a "witness" to some of the hunts that people like Dogzapper tell about.

Just have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Separating the wheat from the chaff is easy..

If JB, or Dogzapper, or me wrote it...its Gospel.....










Two out of three ain't bad!

I've hunted eland several times as part of general bag safaris, and have never carried a smaller rifle than a 338 when doing so. That was based on the advice of the PHs I hunted with. A couple years ago I hunted them in South Africa. My PH said I could use a .270 if that was the only rifle we brought, but that bigger would be much better. He also told me that we'd have to be very careful in shot selection if I chose to use a .270.

What I don't understand is, if you can take more than just a light rifle, why would you even consider using a .260, .270 or 7mm for eland? Sure, it can be done, but this is a case where bigger definitely is better. At least .30 caliber, and .338 or .375 is much better.

Well I take it that the lady in question collected her Eland, Seems to me that its all a moot point, its the cartridge she shot and shot well and killed her eland with it. As far as it goes with me, its your time and money, shot what ever cartridge/ rifle /scope you want. These days I am more incline to just hunt rather than split hairs.

Excellent point!

Because it's all about the YOU, right?

I have only shot 2 Eland and both were with a 375H&H. The first one at about 100yds with a 260gr Nosler partition. All four legs went in different directions and it did not move an inch. The second was at under 100yds and the Nosler hit a mopane and broke the left hip. Tracked for almost a day and a half before finally putting him down.Would I use a 260, to tell the truth I wouldn't even own a 260. Would I use less than a 375, probably if I wanted to. I like the 375 and shoot it well so why try ,but I have also used a 7x57 with great success and would not hesitate to take an Eland with one, as I also shoot it well. It's your money ,your hunt,your conscience and your decision and i'm not about to make it for you.

Interesting:

7x57 = 7/08
6.5x55 = 260

BOTH proven on metrics proven in Africa.

Why one would use a 7x57 but not a 260 is beyond me. I'd run both on the same species/distance.

Bullet choice + shot placement.

One of the writers, perhaps Greg R took a shorty Ruger 260 to Africa and had quite a bit of success as I recall, no issues at all...........he adhered to the 2 principles above.

So if we adehere to the two principles above, I take it the 260's suitable for Cape Buffalo as well?

Lethal - yes, preferable for the #1 dangerous of the Big 5 = certainly not.

For Buff I'd want a 338, 9.3 or 375 bore, but Again, the OP is asking about ELAND.

One talks about the size of an animal etc. - it's the vitals that one needs to take out. Penetration to/thru said vitals with expansion/destruction during that penetration is what kills. Raw foot lbs alone is not the solution.

As most might consider, stopping a potential dangerous large game animal charging would suggest using a rifle with considerable stopping power.

I have no doubt a 120 Barnes or a 140 Partition thru a Cape Buffalo's vitals will kill it.

Yet, I would have no reservations firing upon Eland with a small bore of 6.5-7mm spitting quality bullets of good SD at 2800-3,000 fps.

One can use whatever they wish - and legal. Point made earlier about the confidence the article gives if a hunter is using something larger yet.

Confidence is important otherwise one may not shoot well when needed. Small bores are for those who have confidence, shoot w/a cool head, understand anatomy of their game, have discipline to choose their shot or hold fire, and definitely more suited for non dangerous animals given a choice of weapons.

Keep in mind, a 375, 416, or 458 is not guaranteed to stop nor kill any animal hit if proper bullet choice for game and/or good shot placement is not made.

No matter the cartridge choice, good bullets and good placement are essential to killing any animal.

Well I agree with you if only for the fact one cal kill a buffalo with a 22--given proper shot placement of course. In my view that's just not the issue. While I agree most of us tend to go way over bore when it comes to calibers, there is a reason why there are so many big calibers. Suffice to say, in *my* esperience, albeit very limited, I'm glad I had a 375 with me when I shot my eland. Yep, you guessed it, poor shot placement and had it been that 260, I'd still be looking for him, but that 300 grain swift broke the pelvic girdle and enabled me to shot him again and kill him. This much I can tell you, given EQUAL shot placement, there is a world of difference on how an animal reacts when smacked with say a 3006 and a 300 Weatherby. Been there done that and nobody can tell me otherwise.

So not be be a horses butt - but do you believe a 260 with Barnes or Partition would NOT have penetrated/broke the pelvic girdle? Someone may chime in on this scenario but I'd have to believe a 120 Barnes would dig as deep, how much damage to a pelvic girdle it would do on arrival I cannot say. Suffice to say I'd be hoping not to start out there using any round, but not flaming you that things did not go as planned.

I won't argue w/your experience, nor will I endorse the 260 as a first rate/choice Cape Buffalo round, but again, on Eland, if I had a properly loaded and accurate 260 or similar in hand, I'd fire after picking a good shot. That's just me.

Glad your hunt ended well and you were able to get a successful follow up shot.

I always Strive for 1st shot opportunity placement, and realize things don't always go as planned.

There is no doubt a 375 is proven in Africa on a myriad of game as the '06 is proven in NA. I would not bet against it, assuming good bullets and the shooter accomplishes their intended shot placement.

As to Buffalo and a 22 - well, assuming the L.R. round - not wise. Been killed I am sure w/bow/arrows and even a large Cold Steel knife albeit between the ribs thru the heart (that was a self defense scenario - on youtube btw).

A 223 w/good bullets like a barnes would no doubt 'Brain' a Buff, but I won't be doing the R&D

I do believe STRONGLY - that small/medium bores are often underestimated if one does not consider using the very best of modern bullets w/either mono construction and/or very high S.D. Modest speeds and high S.D. and/or mono's often kill large game very impressively.

FWIW, MY round of choice dangerous African game would be a 338, 9.3 or 375. Personally I am willing to trade a little 'paper horsepower' for more shooter friendly/lower recoiling rifle and a bonus of an extra round or two in the magazine just in case. A 9.3/286 should do all I ask, assuming I do my part. I did seem to notice a 375 I fired have a little milder impulse on shoulder than a 338, though do not recall rifle weights of either.

Many 375s are heavier rifles, I'd appreciate a handier rifle like a Sako Black Bear in 9.3, just me.

Every shooter must choose rifle, optic and chambering for their recoil tolerance and specific needs of the task at hand.

Again, assuming the shooter is comfortable and is not recoil shy to it, a 375 properly loaded is a solid choice in Africa, no doubt about it.

Note Jorge1's note on "is the 260 a Cape Buff round then". Had a friend kill one with his 264WM..one shot, hit the ground like it was pole axed. Just need to get away from the idea that "body" shots are the only way to go. He shot his under the ear, at 200 yds, with a 160gr bullet. I have had a 375 for over 40 years and used it on a number of animals, and find it over rated. The bullets seem to be too heavy and slow for stuff like deer/impala, etc., and I have shot several of those with it, and had them run off aways before going down. Same hit with my 280 and the 140gr bullet, puts them on the ground right now. I don't think anyone is recommending the 260Rem as an all round round. It isn't. But neither is the 375.. on plains game the 260 should be great, and Craig Boddington took one to Africa years ago and found it totally acceptable for plains game, and his daughter used it when she went to Africa with him. But no one suggesting that it's a great round for Buff or Elephant, even if there weren't minimal caliber rules. But Wm. Bell, shot 100s of Elephant using the 6.5x64, which is of lesser power than the 260. He used it a LOT on plains game, having to feed a large retinue of natives who followed him around.

IIRC, Bell only shot 8 elephants with the 6.5x54. After that he decided the German bullets were defective. He used it on meat animals but remember, if something was wounded and escaped, he didn't have to pay the trophy fee or even follow it up.

The problem with a .260 for "plains game" in much of Africa is that, while you are out seeking plains game, you might find a buffalo.

I resolve the problem simply. I do a lot of competitive target shooting with .308s, .223s, 6mm wildcats, and the like. All are popular for low recoil. You shoot better with low recoil. As you increase power, recoil increases, though it remains tolerable until you hit some threshold. For me, the .375 H&H is on the low side of the threshold. The .458 is on the high side. With light rifles, the .300s can be on the high side.

I have also noticed that it seems that my .375, with the same 300 grain expanding bullets I use for buffalo, kills smaller plains game faster than my .300 with 180 grain Noslers. Therefore the next time I hunt eland (I did not get a shot the first time), I'll use the .375 H&H. YMMV.

Adrenalin. This may have been touched on already. I didn't see it in a cursory review of the prior posts.

A well placed shot with a light caliber on a relaxed, serene animal will the do the job. Once the adrenalin is pumping however, all bets are off.

I made a poor shot at 100 yds. on a big Eland Bull. I won't bore you with my excuses but the shot hit low on a facing shot and took out the Eland's left rear knee. I was using 300 grain Nosler partitions in my .375 H&H.

The bull didn't know where the shot came from and began running straight toward me. I proceeded to put 3 more rounds in the center of his chest as he closed the distance. He kept taking the hits without flinching. He ran out of steam only a few feet from where I was standing.

In that instance, if I had been using a light caliber I would have probably been tracking for days.

That's why I don't hunt with marginal calibers.

JMO

I think that most places, like RSA, Namibia, where you're hunting plains game, you're not likely to run into a Buffalo, and even if you did, unless you have a ticket for one, so what. Read my note about about the local guy here killing his buff with one shot from a 264win mag. As for the Eland taking hits in the chest, from the front, no reason a 260 with 140gr bullets wouldn't have killed it as well as the 375. Hits in the chest from the front, should be taking out the heart and lungs. A 308 with 150-165gr Barnes Ttsx bullets, should shoot the length of almost any plains game animal, if shot from the front, and go through and through on a side shot. As for the 375 being better on a marginal shot. BS. I hit an impala with a 375 at 30 yards, and it took a step just as I shot, and hit it through the liver. It just took off, and we followed it up, but I took my wifes 06, and when it came blowing out of some brush, hit it behind the shoulder with the 06, and it hit the ground skidding..also one time hit a Mule deer behind the left side ribs, and out behind the right shoulder, with a 375, and it kept trucking and ran a 1/4 mile, and then laid down, and eventually died. IMO the 375 much over rated for any plains game, as bullets too heavy and designed for larger game, so don't work as well on the light stuff. It does not have the put down effect of an 06 or such, on the lighter stuff.

The short answer to your question is "I have no idea." This place is about opinions and views based on experiences and in that regard, there's just no way you or anybody else is going to convince me the 260 is good for anything but deer. The "given good shot placement" Commandment is so patently obvious I don't know why people keep bringing it up. Same for W.D.M. Bells's and the 6.5. He shot very few elephants with it but again I'll ask; is the 6.5 then an "Elephant Gun"? If so, I'll sell you my 450NE at a good price.

Finally, I'll close by relating a Craig Boddington story both told to me in person and it's in one of his books. It concerns what Craig believes was the biggest kudu he's ever seen and keep in mind Craig's been on about one hundred (100) Safaris and counting. Apparently this kudu was a monster and very wary. At the end of the day he only offerend Craig a Texas Heart Shot as he bolted back into the bush. Craig was carrying a 30.06 that day and he elected not to shoot. He goes on to say had be been carrying his customary 375, there would have been no doubt in his mind he would have taken the ass shot. I'm a slow learner, but that lesson stuck with me and I was glad it did when I gooned up that shot on the eland. jorge

No problem Jorge - so long as one humanely legally harvest game and spares their own bacon, however one wished to proceed is fine by me - seriously.

I won't go poking thru the bush after Buff w/a 6.5...no plans anyways, but if I were after plains game, very likely, and point taken yep you may run into a 'nasty' but I have no plans on going thru the African bush solo - I'd expect to have a PH nearby...

Good points re: bullet choice as using a 'tough' slug made for the big stuff, is not perhaps ideal for the smaller game.

Lastly, the comment on 260 for deer but no larger, well - I respect your feelings. I would never suggest one hunting with a weapon that either they 1) lack confidence or 2) they cannot shoot well.