Read the lengthy thread on the virtues of the 9.3x62, 30-06 and 7x57 for plains game, but it left me wondering where the 300 WSM ranks.

A louder more aggressive 3006. More pain with little gain. I am of the opinion that the hype of the wsm will not make it a better round, certainly not better than the 300WinMag. In my humble opinion there is noneed for a magnum to harvest plains game.

Donning flame proof suit as I hit the submit button.

Randy

Hang on Randy! I want to take a 7x57 and you should have heard my
PH's comments! "More lost game that anything else!" Really? He insists I bring at least a 300 win mag with 180's...but he will let my wife shoot his 223 and use it on impala and warthog?

The simple answer is that if you like it, take it. Use a good bullet, and it'll work great! The haters are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ;-)

The 300 WSM will knock down anything that our shores have to offer. I have had the absolute pleasure of working with this calibre and am currently in the market, to add one to my rifle battery. It will without a doubt become my new working rifle. Due to the case design, the powder burn efficiency is slightly better than in the Win Mag. They claim that the WSM has about 40fps or so over the Win Mag, so really nothing that will make any difference. All that I know, is that I have to have one. A couple of hunters have brought theirs over and took everything on the plains game list with them. I was particularly impressed with the little Savage .300 WSM.

Thanks for putting a smile on my face after the results!

There must be few other topics on any chatroom that fire up blood pressure like ballistics and caliber. IMHO a 7X57 is one of the really great calibers around, not because I heard, not because someone said so but because I have experienced it. For most plains game it works just great if you use good ammunition (like in most cases).

The 300 WSM I have not had good results with hunters. This may or may not be because of ammunition or operator error I simply do not know. If I were a hunter and consistently did not have good results with it and was completely honest about the fact that it was me having operator error, then there cannot be anything wrong with the caliber. Having said that and from I have experienced, I am not a big fan of the 300 WSM, biased as it may sound. If the originator of the 300 WM was trying to replicate the ballistics in the 300 WSM, why do I have more wounded animals with the WSM than with the 300 WM?

This is just an observation and I must confess my proficiency in calibers and ballistics could be considered lacking.

It will work great with the right bullet put in the right place.

There's no magic... it's going to perform just like what it is.

More velocity than the 30.06 and a little less than the 300 Win Mag (with the 180-200 grain bullets).

I just killed everything from Jackal to Giraffe with a 30.06 while on Safari and it works just fine, but the extra power of the magnums can be a good thing if used properly.

I can promise you that the animal that you shoot will not care which caliber that the exact same size bullet was fired from... he'll just be hit slightly harder by it.

Dead is dead.
It really is that simple.

Jeffpg: Pardon my ignorance....but where,exactly,do you shoot a giraffe?....yeah I know, in Africa

But I mean where in that body do you smack them?

They seem so huge and the hide and bones so heavy and thick...

When I went to Africa, I NEEDED (I was single at the time, so I could say WANTED and make it happen) a new rifle. I found a nice Kimber 300wsm that was like new and at a very good price, plus the gent took .40 cal ammo in trade.

I loaded it up with 168 TTSX and it worked wonderfully. Nothing complained and everything died. Quickly.

Jeffpg

Your assessment is so simple and true it will go unheeded by many. It has in many threads. Right bullet, right place, right trophy taken.

Pieter

The 7x57 allows people to do just that. Many shooters are affected by recoil more than they want to admit. I used to be one of them. Now I just admit it. I have found the speed of the projectile to influence the recoil perception in my case. It is why I shoot a heavy 375 H&H rather than a lighter faster 375.

KMG

I assume by your occupation, and by your postings, the recoil of a magnum is a non issue for you. I am also a rifle looney so I encourage you and anyone else wanting a 300WSM to have at it. For those of us not so trained or gifted, I still suggest non magnums for best shot placement.

Keep us posted on your rifle and results.

Randy

Load it up with 165 TSX and go for it!

More people new to the rifles they bring might be the cause. If a bullet leaves the muzzle at the same speed with one or the other, there would be absolutely no difference in results, given equal shot placement.

I don't shoot a 300 WSM but do shoot the 325 WSM. It hits like Thor's Hammer. I don't see why the 300 wouldn't give similar results.

This question is analogous to the comparison between the 375 H&H and the 375 Ruger. Again, no difference in results, given all else is equal.

Nobody disparages the venerable 300 H&H for PG. Out the barrel the 300 WSM and 300 H&H are twins.

My 300RSAUM with 165gr Woodleighs worked real well for me, the 300WSM is just a bit more goodness.

Would I take it again? Nope...my 7x64 running 160grPT's is more than adequate for the PG I'm interested in....eland not included.

I used a 300WSM with 180 grain Partitions for springbok and warthog in Namibia and it worked great.

I used my 300WSM on two trips to RSA and have taken 12 plainsgame animals witht this cartridge. All were one shot kills. I hand load 180 Accubonds atop 65.5 gr. of IMR4831 for a muzzle velocity of 3000FPS +-. The accuracy is exceptional and has become my large game rifle for Africa and north America. MTG

My Kimber Montana in 300WSM is going with me to Africa someday. 168TTSX has proven to be very accurate at 3100FPS. For plains game, I think it will work fine.

I aim to get a bull moose later this year.

Hey Randy, the rifle that Marius at KMG loved so much was the Savage 16 Weather Warrior in 300wsm that my son and I used. I've not shot other magnum rifles, but 12 guage turkey loads kick much more than this Savage I have.
We truly never felt the kick. It comes with a really good pad on it. And, although the rifle is light for a mag (6.9 pounds), it doesn't kick at all. It certainly doesn't kick more than the 30-06 i had years ago.
Here's the rifle link Savage 16 in 300wsm


I only pulled the trigger once on the 7-08 we brought, it being the only errant shot made on the trip.

I really felt bad the last day because i half jokingly/half serious told Marius I'd trade him that rifle for a Waterbuck. Then when he surprisingly said "Certainly" I had to renege. Of course, it'd have been impossible anyway without the advance paperwork needed.
If he hasn't gotten one before I get to go back, I'll bring him one in personally.

I had never wanted a mag, not needed for deer in Mississippi. I really got it for future hunting out west and for our africa trip. Wanted a longer range rifle with ummpphh than the 7-08.

blessings,
rph

Took mine this past year and shot impala, leopard, wildebeest, warthog, and sable with my .300 WSM.

All one shot kills and everything seemed to die.

Not much difference from the Win Mag other than an increase of a few fps.

Great guns if you use good bullets. Like most other calibers.....

I don't think that in reality the WSM has any more velocity then the WinMag. And with 180 and heavier bullets, the advantage (if any) switches to the bigger case of the WinMag.

I bought the 300WSM because it was chambered in a short lightweight rifle I actually like to carry. I had a 338WinMag, but it was quite heavy, and unless I was specifically after elk or moose, I always defaulted to the lighter to carry 25-06s that I own.

Now that I am reloading my WSM, I find that I am getting 3100fps out of a 168 gr TTSX with only 64grs of RL17. A WinMag requires 73gr of RL19 or 75gr of RL22 to get 3100fps.

So, I have a rifle that still has a 3 round magazine, is lightweight, short bolt throw and more economical (powder wise) to load.

What is not to like?

And well we are on WSM, I really like the 270WSM. A modern 7RM.

I know a very successful Master Hunting Guide in Namibia and he caries a 7x57 using Barnes TSX. He would probably enjoy it when someone arrives at camp with another 7x57. We have shot eland with 100% success with our 7x57.

The 300WSM would be perfect for plains game.

Pieter

Yet the 300 H&H is lauded as one of the greatest plains game calibers of all time. I guess it really does matter which case you send the same bullets, at the same speeds from, eh?

Completely disagree. The WSM although I much prefer the longer cousins, makes for a SUPERB PG caliber, certainly better than any 7X57, 3006 or the 9.3. More range than the first two and much flatter than the latter. With 168TSXz it's a great PG round. And BTW, it develops LESS MV that the 300 Win Mag and more of a par with the H&H.

I've shot the 300 WSM in 5 differ rifles near 13 years now.

Superformance powder with the 165 should work great.

General comment: Cartridges don't "kill"....bullets do.

.............Although I `ve never been to Africa as of yet, I would treat the 300 WSM no different than a 300 Win Mag or the 300 H&H.

Just a 30-06 with more power. Nothing more than that.

Per my 49th Edition Lyman manual on pg 231, here is a portion written for the 300 WSM.

"Ballistics of the 300 WSM averaged 30 to 50 fps below the full sized 300 Winchester Magnum while consuming around eight to ten percent less powder in out lab tests",,,,,,,,,,,

In checking the #s that`s about right for all bullet weights.

So whatever you can expect from a 300 Win, you should also expect the same using a 300 WSM. No reason to believe otherwise whether used for African plains game or for any other game.

When planning my Safari, I originally was going to use the PH's 7mm Rem Mag on all my plains game except for the Giraffe & possibly the Eland, for which I would swap over to a 375 H&H Magnum. Once I got there & began to "try on" his rifles, I quickly found that his custom 30.06 built on a CZ 660 action fit me like a glove. I stoked it with Norma Oryx 180 grainers & started killin' stuff with it and became so fond of it that I decided to head shoot the Giraffe with it, which I did.

They are thick skinned and huge, and require a lot of killing when shot with the normal shoulder shot.

With the overwhelming rave reviews of the 30/06 and the 308 on PG how can this be a real question other then just making chat or wanting to have confirmation of what you like?

.308 diameter is the base line of good functional successful calibers. The speeds of the WSM exceed those of the cartridges that have had 100 years of brilliant performance with Plains game. Do the math!

As far as Giraffe, I've killed and seen killed quite a few, one property had 20 and wanted them all killed right away for Land grab reasons and meat sales. We shot them all in a two week period. I killed the biggest bull in the area which was a 17' bull that was an absolute monster. One shot in the back of the head from under 100 yards with guess what? ...... my 30/06. 165 grain TSX game over....... ..................TIMBER!

Seriously, a 165 grain TSX at 2900 plus is perfectly lethal on nearly anything on this planet. If you can get them to 3000 plus............ wow! you will have a magic wand of death.

Jeff/JJ: Thanks for the info!

I think the 300 WSM is a near ideal 30. Not too punishing, efficient, can be put in a trim rifle and good ballistics with popular bullets.

It won't do something magical, though, that the 300 Win Mag or 30-06 won't, other than be a bit more efficient.

Hello. I'm not a World traveler but I did get a .300WSM when they first came out. Browning and Winchester came out with the cartridge and a rifle with a BOSS recoil reducer/barrel tuner. The concept was for a mountain rifle that would weigh less with a shorter action. How much weight could that possibly save? Well, the rifle was light and I knew better so I had one built on a Nesika action in a big McMillan Winchester Marksman stock with a heavy 25" Dan Lilja barrel. Mine weighed 8 1/2 pounds bare. It still kicked hard. I had a muzzle brake put on and it got much better. I reload for it, and dote on it, and it'll shoot 165 grain ballistic tips into half inch groups at 100 yds. I have shot deer out to 450 yds with it, twice in fact. Never missed, never wounded, never taken more than a step before falling flat on their faces rifle. I've been hunting with it 11 or 12 years. It works really well. My advice is don't buy one in a short light mountain rifle without knowing it will beat you hard. It is an accurate cartridge and can be handloaded to some pretty impressive levels of accuracy. My heavier rifle with a brake is fine to shoot and I keep it to right around 3000fps and it seems very accurate and manageable.

I'm assuming that 3000fps is with 180's?

You can further tune that recoil by switching to 165 TSX at 3000, there will be no difference in the performance. However the lighter bullets will recoil less. Although if you're not using the TSX now then you will actually see at least as good performance and likely better should you shoot bigger heavier game then deer with it. Or when you make step raking quartering away shots when needed.

I hunted South Africa earlier this year with a 300 WSM and 165 grain TSX bullets. I had eight one-shot kills on (3) impala, gemsbok, blesbok, kudu, wildebeest, and zebra. I recovered one bullet; the rest are still in orbit circling Earth somewhere.

I have nothing but praise for the combination. I personally believe that with a good bullet like the TSX, the 165 is a better choice than the 180.

I don't shoot 180s. 165s at 3,000 fps. I use IMR 4350 and it's a really nice load. I've killed at least 60 deer in North Carolina with 165 grain ballistic tips over 20+ years of trips to Northampton Lodge. I found that 150 grain ballistic tips will break up and shrapnel will blow the guts of a perfectly shoulder shot deer far too often. I also found that 180 grain ballistic tips didn't offer any real benefit so I just bought box upon box of 165s. I loaded 180s for my best friend's .300 Wby with the same 4350 at 2900 or so because he blew the guts with 165s. It seems that a couple hundred feet per second more would tear apart the bullets. I didn't get into solid bullets. Obviously you wouldn't blow them apart like the lead core ones.

Well, then your WSM 165's at 3000fps are nearly identical to my 30/06 with 165's

My Loaner rifle is shooting that 165 TSX close to 2950fps.

Probably why I feel it's a good combination. Having used this myself, and my hunters using this for many hundreds of animals with only few un-recoverd. These coming from admittedly poor shots.

By the way, the 165TSX at 3300 plus fps is like magic. I had a fella shooting these with the 300 ultramag in the Drakensburg Mountians. He was shooting springbok and Black wildebeest at 500 plus yards, also an eland at what we guessed at 750-800 yards. We could not get a clear measure with the rangefinder but we could in front and behind it. Not what I would promote, but his interests were in Long range shooting and he was clearly far more a shooter then a hunter. ( X military sniper, now an FBI sniper)

His skills were not human at shooting very far and on moving/ running targets. This was the guy that enemy nightmares are made of.

I've hunted twice with JJ and shot a .300 WSM, 200g Partitions first time. No problem-- killed everything. Second time an .06 with 165 BTSX, same loads as JJHack. The .06 is just more fun and easier to shoot-- recoil, etc. Also, you can leave JJ the unsoent ammo when you leave!

Bobin,

I took mine with a neck shot........timber!!!

Body shots with light calibres evidently make for "fun" follow ups

We made a trip to Namibia this past June, upon arrival the PH asked what rifles we had. I told him 300 win mag and 7mm mag. He said, the 300 WM is fine, but would not let us shoot the 7mm mag. I asked about a 300 WSM as I had considered taking one, he said we would not have shot it. The interesting part is my son shot most of his animals with a bow. I encourage you to talk to the folks where you are hunting as you plan. It was our first trip and I learned a lot, one thing I learned, if the booking agent does not get you in touch with the outfitter it is a red flag for problems.

MSmitty7 - what didn't he like about the .300 WSM?

Essentially it's got the same ballistics as a .300 Win mag, close enough anyway I'd think.

Thanks, Guy

I never got a logical response as to why he did not like the .300 WSM other than he had seen too many wounded and lost animals. I mentioned the similar ballistics, but got no response. The owner and he really preferred larger calibers and heavy bullets. They favored Nosler partitions as well. He did say it was difficult to find ammunition there for the 300 WSM if yours did not make the trip. He was also very careful to point out that time lost tracking was time away from hunting. In defense of the PH, we did get off to an interesting start due to information from the booking agent that was not accurate and a lack of communication from the booking agent. Being our first trip, I was unaware that if the booking agent does not put us in contact with the owner/outfitter upon making deposit there is a good chance for communication problems.

Exactly. Not enough difference for the animal to tell for sure, and in a lighter, handier rifle to boot. :-)

The bullet is a lot more important, and the 168 gr. TTSX looks like a winner there.

One of my buddies just returned from SA, killing everything from duiker to eland, 12 animals I think it was, with his 7mag and 160 TSX with outstanding results and zero problems killing stuff. .30's not necessary in his opinion at least.

I recall reading the original "30-06 TSX" thread by JJHACK.

One of his anecdotes was about a military sniper who headed for Africa with a 7mm Rem Mag for plains game. All went well until the zebra, which he hit but never recovered due to lack of blood trail.

Given the expense involved in an African safari, I think I'll personally error on the side of "too much gun". The 300 WSM seems a like a great fit for plains game, with only marginally more recoil (165-168 versus 160 grain bullets), substantially better damage factor, and absolutely no measurable ballistic disadvantage relative to a 7mm magnum at typical plains game ranges.

On the other hand, there are many alternatives from 8mm to 9.3mm that sound like a lot of fun as well. ;-)

What's the difference between a 300 Win. Mag. and a 300 WSM? 50-100 fps? How would an animal know that?

if they had a chronograph?

wouldn't be all that surprising, afterall, those impalas have night vision goggles.

Anybody that says to us a 300 Win mag but not a WSM, shows complete ignornace when it comes to ballistics. As to the 7Mag, a good bullet like the TTSX or Partition in 160gr ormore is about as good as it gets.

A .308 shoots a 165 gr about 2700, 30/06 2900, 300 wsm 3000, 300 win mag 3200, 300 weatherby 3400 these are not etched in stone lots of factors from barrel length and various loads and barrels, just as an example here.

However nobody that has seen these perform on game and has opened up the body to examine the results can deny that velocity effects the reaction to tissue.

Even a FMJ through the chest with the 3000 plus FPS rounds will blow a huge hole through the chest simply because the tissue is escaping the path of the projectile at close to the same speed of the impact. The stretch of this tissue ruptures smaller animals to the point of bursting through the skin.

This happens less and less the lower the speed. Bullet weight does not do this, velocity does. However Bullet weight retains the momentum and drives further by retaining the velocity for a longer time. ( greater distance)

So the bigger the bullet and the faster the speed the better it works by holding on to the speed and causing the flesh to get the heck out of the way as it blows through tissue to get out the other side.

When you suggest that 100fps is a small amount, that is a reasonable observation when we are talking about 3000 or 3100 fps. But the additional velocity at the impact distance, is big. The use of heavier bullets to start with which are longer and eat up the capacity of the case which could be used for powder is significant.

Roy Weatherby felt that the short neck of the 300 win mag ( unique to all modern cartridges as it's shorter then the bullet diameter) Was a problem to be able to get the maximum use of the various selection of .308 bullet shapes and weights. He Then developed his magic death wand the 300 Weatherby Magnum. It has a long neck, which can hold any bullet with ease, and a huge case that can handle any bullet length that will not suck up more case capacity then it should.

Unfortunately it also must have a 26-28" barrel to burn that powder, and it's recoil will definitely get your attention. However that cartridge does drive a bullet to another whole level of performance over most other 30 caliber cartridges, even though it's only 100 fps faster then the 300 win mag with a standard or more specific load, shooting a 200, 220, 250 grain bullet from the 300 weatherby can be done well above the 300 win mag potential.

Exactly like shooting a 150 grain bullet in a .308 or 30/06. Not much difference not an obvious reason why a 30/06 is the better choice. But then consider shooting a 200 grain bullet, or a 220 grain bullet and the difference is huge. The 30/06 leaves the .308 behind when the bigger game and bullets are included.

With the advent of TSX bullets some of this difference has tightened up. If your gun shoots them well, the much lighter bullets hold 100% weight and out penetrate all CUP and CORE designs. But they are also longer for the weight which use up some case capacity. (Nothing comes free)

There is a difference, and in my personal and simple minded opinion none of these today have yet surpassed the over all balance of the original and very first magnum cartridge..... the 300Holland & Holland. If I had to move from that to the next more modern level, the 300 ultra, or Weatherby would be next for the huge case capacity and long easy to reload neck.

I have not seen more internal trauma, deeper penetration, and absolutely decisive kills folding game that otherwise would have run. Many of these from a bad hit simply fold in their tracks. This is common from a 300 weatherby shooting 165 TSX at 3400fps.

That combination has just destroyed more sell-able meat for me then all other cartridges combined. My opinion of that cartridge is inversely proportional to sell-able meat loss and impressive performance. A quandary for the choice of a Safari company owner, but a simple choice for the visiting hunter that should not care about the meat. For the guy that can handle that rifle using it for plains game, it is without a doubt as decisive and with the most astonishing internal trauma on large animals as I have ever witnessed in 1000's of animals we have killed.

The 300 mags are the Apex of plains game firearms. To exceed this option requires going to a much bigger rifle, 338 win mag is not a better cartridge for plains game, although the blood trails are better. You would really need to go to the 340 weatherby or another 338 super magnum case.

If you can shoot those, you are clearly in another league from my skill and tolerance level.

"Roy Weatherby felt that the short neck of the 300 win mag ( unique to all modern cartridges as it's shorter then the bullet diameter) Was a problem to be able to get the maximum use of the various selection of .308 bullet shapes and weights. He Then developed his magic death wand the 300 Weatherby Magnum. It has a long neck, which can hold any bullet with ease, and a huge case that can handle any bullet length that will not suck up more case capacity then it should."

I agree with what you say JJ, just Roy W did not compare the 300WM to his 300WBY. The 300 WBY was designed/introduced in 1944 and the 300WM was designed/introduced in 1963. The comparisons are just, but Roy designed without influence from the 300 WM.

My buddies' hunt included two zebras, but I certainly don't blame you with choosing to err "on the side of too much gun." Hit 'em where you're supposed to and it doesn't matter according to him. Good luck!

AB2506,

Thats dead on accurate on your part, I did read his opinion sometime after the fact and his over all views of the win mag by comparison. It's how I came to know his feelings, however the cart ended up a few steps in front of the horse in that last post. Your time line is however exactly right. So I stand corrected on the time line. His actual comments were also correct about the loading issues, at least from his view. Its why he preferred his design based on a big Wine bottle crossbred to a 300HH case, rather then past case designs by all others. Plus a wine bottle design fit well with the elite company he kept and made for a very long lasting name for the case, and what is now an industry standard! "Magnum"

Lets face it, somebody was gonna invent a line of excessive over bore cases. It just happened to be Roy Weatherby's time in history. Just like Holland and Holland before him. If Laupa in Finland had existed then, it probably would have been them!

Would anyone following this thread shoot an eland with a 165 gr TSX 300 WSM? And if I put a 180 gr FMJ in front of 44,5 gr of powder, would I be good on Cape buffalo?

Completely agreed.

No I won't.

I'll use a 168 gr TTSX at 3100 out of my 300WSM on eland, if I can afford an eland (I just added my projected fees up, and it currently comes to $8050 without eland.) It is currently my biggest rifle. If the little lady in the Safari Club Mag can whack an eland with a 260, I figure I can with a 300WSM.

Sam Fadala used a 30-06 on buff, but for that, I think I would go purchase/borrow a 9.3x62 or 375 of some sort.

165 grain bullet has worked more then a dozen times on eland from my 30/06 it only gets better the faster it goes.

44.5 grains of what powder? we don't have American Powders in RSA, so not many people will get an accurate answer to that one.

180 grain FMJ to the brain of a buffalo will work with flawless perfection, however miss by a tiny little bit and it will go horribly wrong in a hurry.

What are you thinking Pieter? What are you up to?

Exactly my question, JJ.

I would very happily use a .300 WSM with a 165 TSX on eland, based on some experience, though not as much as yours.

The one thing that gets everyone fired up out of their socks would be calibers, muzzle velocity and ammunition performance. The 300 WSM, though I have not had good results with hunters using it, is a great caliber. For a moment it got you fired up did't it Jiems?

I just figured you were up to some trouble boet, ek hoop alles reg

IME the 300 WSM is a solid 150+ fps faster than the 30-06... and 200 fps faster is not out of the question. RL17 really makes it go.

The question was how does the 300wsm rate for PG. the answer is fantastic. I reload for two wmags and one 300H&H. I get 0.5 inch groups on all of them with with 150 tsx.

Funny enough the H&Hbeats the wm for speed when we use 200 grn or more. But i do have a 26 barrel on the H&H. If today i am only allowed only one rifle for plains game I wil use the 300wsm. The better use of powder and all the advantages that comes with that is only one of the reasons for me. The fact that the wsm is beltless is a huge thing in my opinion.
The wsm"s simply reload more easy due to this and the better shoulder angle. To met the loss or gain of speed between the wm and H&H, and the wsm is so little that it cant be part of the consideratin.


What was the question again?
How does the 300wsm rank for pg? It ranks damn good!!

Ja dankie Jim. Are there any bad calibers out there today? Nope, don't think so, but there are calibers not suited for certain game species.

The 300 WSM in my opinion is suited for African game and I do recommend it to anyone wanting to hunt here.

In view of the massive weight of an eland, why not use 200 grain bullets for it instead of 165-168?

This choice is strictly for monolithic bullets. With 100 percent weight retention the higher velocity trumps starting weight.

10 plus years ago a heavier bullet were needed to give expansion and retain half the weight, we all know how we'll that worked right? Even partitions did not retain 50% in most cases.

Starting with 165 and getting 400fps more speed flattens trajectories shortens muzzle to impact times and still retains far more then any cup and core bullet could ever manage.

I've shot bull eland over 2000 lbs. as a follow up with the165 grain bullet and found it under the skin on the opposite side, 6" from the hunters bullet using a 375hh shooting bonded bullets. I can't go into all the examples of similar performance. It is however a compelling level of experience seeing these little 165 grain TSX bullets getting the job done with astonishing performance.

I agree with jj on this. The 300wsn is n fast runner and to use this to the best effect mono's is the way. Something like tsx or GSCustom. I wont think twice to use the 300wsm with 150grn tsx on eland

At 250 yards or less, I don't think any animal hit with a well placed shot from a .30/06, .300 WSM or .300 Win Mag (given appropriate bullets) would be able to tell the difference. Over 250 yards, either magnum would shoot a bit flatter than the .30/06. That said, my longest shot was a Gold Medal Springbok, facing me, at 315 yards with a 180 grain bullet from a .30/06. Boom-plop.

Easiest body shot on a Giraffe is to maneuver into a position where the animal is facing you and shoot it dead center in the chest, just above the two bones that look like "breasts". I have killed three Giraffe, for camp and bait meat whilst cat hunting, all with a .416 Rigby. Since the Giraffe is large, big boned and thick skinned, I don't recommend anything less than a .375 with strongly constructed bullets.

Whin70, I know you didnt invent this term, still I think this term was invented by salesmen to make US hunters bound for africa think they are undergunned.

LT Dan:

By your post, I assume you have personally killed giraffe. If that is the case and you were present for the necropsy, you must have observed that the skin was at least an inch thick, the bones are quite large and a big stink bull can stand about 19 feet tall and weigh around 3,000 pounds. If that doesn't qualify as a large animal requiring at least a medium bore rifle firing a heavy, well constructed bullet, than nothing does.

I maintain that a well placed shot from a medium bore rifle (9.3x62, .375 or better) is the prudent minimum when shooting giraffe. Of course someone will point out that Bell killed elephants with a 7x57, but no one will recommend that as sound practice.

Giraffe indeed have chest skin that is many inches thick. So thick in fact that it's difficult to salt cure properly. It requires lacing the skin with deep penetrating slices to get the salt many inches to the hair follicles.

I would not consider anything less then a 338 with a monolithic bullet, and that would be marginal in my opinion for a direct chest shot. The 375HH I have used for chest shots did not over penetrate by any means, not even with 270 grain TSX bullets, or the 300 TSX bullets.

After some of those difficult to believe experiences, I determined that the 30/06 with surgical precision of a head shot was prudent. That decision with the 165 TSX was an instant kill without a single step. With a gun zeroed or adjustable to 100 yards, you have a kill shot about the size of a clay shotgun "pigeon". If you cannot hit that size target at one hundred yards........... well maybe golf or fishing is a better recreational endeavor.

Giraffe are horribly complex to follow up wounded. They leave a blood trail above your head in the leaves, and see you coming a mile away. They have big feet, and are very heavy. However those big wide soft hooves do not leave great tracks even in dirt. They are not hard like the hooves of other smaller antelopes like Kudu or wildebeest.

The last Giraffe I shot was under 100 meters but in that ball park. It was a giant of an old bull. It was killed with a single 165gr TSX bullet from the 30/06. The head behind the eye had a .308 entry hole, and there was no exit The TSX bullet to not come out of the skull on the exit side! The giraffe skull from an old calcified bulls noggin is quite thick and heavy.

I have never seen a Giraffe shot in the chest head on or broadside that fell at the shot. every one of them ran some distance. A few very short, with a staggering gait and stumbling to fall within 50 yards. The way a giraffe moves everything seems like slow motion. The inertia to move that mass and those long legs just defies the reality of how much ground they are actually covering. A running giraffe is covering 20 meters in a single stride with a body that looks as if it's hardly moving.

They can look down at your approach when wounded from distances that you cannot comprehend. They know you're coming from a significant distance and wander the bush never taking their eye off of you. Closing the gap to find a clear shooting lane in the trees is often a near impossible effort!

I don't think Dan was relaying the statement in his post the a chest shot giraffe. I believe that it was a more general term towards standard Plains game. At least that was as I read this?

Yip, thats about it. Like I have said in the past, why wont a good hunter from the USA, that knows and trust his 30-06 not be a good combo for the plains game over here?

Two reasons:

1) Because we've been told for decades (mostly by other American hunters)that African plains game is much tougher than North American big game. This hasn't been my experience, but it's a common belief over here.

2) They want a new "African" rifle.

Timber totally cracks me up and that's one of my African fantasy's....<g>

Hope alls well in your camp this holiday season JJ (and all others)

Dober

This is just me and I kind of imagine that for some reason or another others may not agree (shocker...grin) but to me the 300 wsm kind of ranks like this. It'll do with the 180's what the 06 will do with 165-8's. Point being that there's about 12-15 grains diff tween the two and for the most part they'll run at the same speeds (or close enough no one game will ever know the diff).

Brads old 70/06/Bansner rig (cepting for sans irons ;), but with a back up scope) was about the most model perfecto 06 I've ever had my hands on. And for me JB's NULA/06 was same same for me.

Just my thoughts, and all feel free not to concur with me...grin

Dober

I concur.....What was the question again???

I've owned a 300WSM and several 30-06's. The 300 WSM does everything the 06' does just a wee bit faster and harder. The 300 WSM IMO is about perfect with 180's and I wouldn't waste my time feeding/loading anything else for it. It's much like a 06' AI in a short action. As many have said it will do fine. Most important is you. Shoot it well and place the bullet appropriately and you'll be rather content with it's performance. Partition, bonded or mono and remember the engine room in Africa is a little north on animals compared to NA big game bringing in the shoulder into play. So, don't bother with the poly tipped stuff.

PK, I have shot an eland (880 kg)with a 160grTSX 7mm WSM. Mistake was hitting humerus and reducing the amount of internal damage. As it was the bull went about 90 yds and piled up. It did require a finishing shot. An inch further back and it would have been down much sooner. Gemsbok, and kudu required followup shots also due to operator errors. Impala, bushbuck and zebra were down for the count. We also had a 300 WSM w/ 168 TSX, which gave equally good results.

Took a 300WSM on my first trip to Africa. Worked pretty good on 13 plains animals. 180G Triple Shocks.

Seems like a 180 grain .30 caliber bullet at 3100 fps works the same wherever you use it. I like Partitions or A-Frames....

Hey, that's pretty cool. Congrats on your trophy's. I love my 300 wsm's, but feel they are just like others have said ("30-06 AI" on a short action). I'm sure those triple shocks did the trick just fine. Do you happen to know the velocity you are getting out of them and what rifle platform were you using?

Fully the equal to the .30-06.

I'd have to dissagree swampy. In my experience it doesn't feed quite as nicely as the good ol 06....Hate to pick nits but just how I see it...

There is that I just meant ballisticly.

When the 300WSM came out I had a plenty of hunters come over with it right away. The feeding was the most common issue. For what ever reason there seemed to be a greater double feed problem, and often having the tip of the bullet jam into the top of the chamber rather then into the barrel.

I saw this with several rifles and hunters. I began to ask the hunters arriving with the 300WSM if they had ever had this problem. The answer was typically no. However when hunting these same guys would have a problem and then claim I jinxed them!

I'm no gunsmith so I cannot speak as to why this happened exactly. However it became something I remembered happening with this cartridge. It reminded me of how many people used a push feed for a life time of hunting without a problem, until hunting with me in Alaska or Africa, and then having a shell not extract or a double feed jam.

There are most certainly huge differences in the use and function of rifles while targets and practice are done, and when actually using the action quick and "sloppy" on the hunt! During my career I have seen many rifles jammed tight with two rounds trying to get into the chamber at the same time. Oddly enough the same comment follows 100% of the time. " I've never had this happen before, what could have caused this"

The 300 WSM reminds me of this same situation, not so much over the last couple years, but more when they were first on the market. I'm not sure that anything was changed in the design, I simply believe that people are not using them as often.

I don't see them as frequently any longer. Far more 300 win mags and 30/06 even 300 ultra mags. There was time when the 300wsm was very popular with 3-4 hunters or more a year with them. Now I probably only have one a year if that.

Back in the day, the .300 Weatherby was the cat's meow. Do you see many of those any more?

And way back in the day it was the H&H.....Which is almost the balistic twin to the wsm...

I've owned a 300HH ( mod 70)which was in my opinion the apex of slick feeding perfectly designed cases. Back then I was as a younger man unfortunately. At that point I had the bigger faster better vision and moved to the 300 weatherby ( mod 70). After all I could still use the HH shells in the 300 weatherby. They worked really well too.

Too bad that the 300 weatherby was not in practical use any better. It was faster, could shoot 250 grain bullets with plenty of powder capacity and was flat shooting. But the reality for me within actual practice was not any different then the 300HH. I sold the 300 weatherby and bought a then new stainless steel Model 70. It was a pre order which came to me about a year before they showed up on store shelves. I still have that 30/06 if that tells you anything about the performance in actual practice while hunting. It's killed more game by more people then any rifle owned by any person I've ever known. It should be put into the winchester museum when I'm done with it.

How long has the stainless model 70 classic been made? it's been like 20 plus years now probably? I would love to have that 300HH back, that was really one of the best cartridges I've ever used. That long tapered case fed and extracted like magic. Sometimes bigger and faster is not better when everything is considered.

I will add another insightful experience. The difference between a double lung hit animal at 150 yards with the same bullet between the 300 weatherby and the 30/06 is significant. The great majority of the time the animal runs with the 30/06. With the 300 weatherby they very often fold like a head shot.

The internal trauma does not look like the same bullet could have been used. The 400fps difference with the 300 Weatherby is not insignificant. It's simply devastating with an astonishing level of destruction.

Jim; the 300's performance is exactly what I've experienced in my much smaler sample universe. I'm a firm believer in speed kills.

JJ you mentioned feeding issues. From what I see from some is they go out and buy the newest flavor of the month, shoot it off bench to get zero and then go on an expensive hunt to work out the bugs. Then when they get home they move to the next flavor.
That also can be attributed to rifle looneyism. Such a dreaded affliction