I've had 4 hunters ask to cancel hunts based on business changes that effect their companies with health care, the cost of fuel, loans for materials etc.

They were banking 100% on a conservative winner that would stop the bleeding. These four people do not know each other, are not in related business and live in different areas of the USA.

I never saw this coming, so it's a tough situation for us now too. The loss of four hunters and 4 non-hunters is a good chunk of our business now too.

And so it begins! The spiral of small business destruction.

Ouch!

They should go when they can still have a gun...

Sadly, I think that is going to become the rule and not the exception.

Mike

Sadly I agree as well...

all the way around

My best friend and his wife have a small fishing lodge at Whale Pass, SE AK. They are experiencing the same thing with their long time regulars now.

This might put them under.

FUGG that Muzzy Kenyan all to H@LL!

My business has sort of come to a screeching halt after the election. My customers are all too scared to spend money, everyone was banking on the Kenyan being defeated. I hope this economy isn't the new norm.

Agazain: And what country would that be. We ARE the last country, that lets folks have guns. Austalia, etc., very much restricted, as are most parts of Africa. I was told in Namibia, that if you already have a couple of guns and want another (family even) are asked, "what for" you already have enough..

have a friend in Idaho said he was going to leave the USofA if O won, and I asked him the same thing. WHERE you intend to go that isn't already worse?

Wife and I have all of our plans (building a second house on the property, buying a used economy car etc.) on hold.
And we're debt free...

If I didn't have adult kids out there trying to make it I'd say let it all burn.
Get what we deserve as a country for adopting socialist European ideology.

If people and businesses were afraid to spend and invest before the election, we are seeing the aftermath of a GOP loss.
There is nothing positive to look forward to in 2013 and beyond.
This is not "sour grapes". Obamacare alone is going to be a huge tax burden as it unravels into our economy. Look at the unemployment surging with companies after Nov. 6th.
I'm afraid for JJ and others, its going to get worse before better. Just how much is anyones guess.

Have to call you wrong on that one as NZ still has laws that encourage hunting and gun ownership. We have COLFO (coalition of liscenced firearms owners) that has made good representation when gun law reviews were mooted and with factual rather than emotive lobying has kept the rot at bay that has infected many of the places you allude to.Maybe not as open slather free as the US but hunting and recreationary use of most weapons is available. The restrictions from the US are what makes things difficult for us with YOUR laws restricting what we can get from you direct. I have been waiting since early Aug to get a reamer from Mansons.

VG is correct....NZ really is God's country.

Or will be until over-run by Indians and such.

It's almost impossible to emigrate to NZ, I understand. I would have made the move years ago, but I didn't have a medical degree or similar.

You Kiwis are a great bunch! I meet some here on the ski slopes who work at the resorts. They have a great attitude and sense of humor.

If you have enough money to qualify as investor class, they'll let you in.

Soon some of you guys might be able to get in as refugees, beeing minorities sufering persecution fof your belief's.

+1

I can second what Gerogiaboiler said regarding my business. We are literally day to day. Four years ago I was working five electricians, now it's down to one and myself. I see no relief on the horizon or in the distant future. We used to go see my two sons every year and they would come here. That hasn't happened in two years because of fuel prices and I will not be groped by TSA. And, I guess I'm just old fashioned enough if one of their goons or goonesses groped my wife I would end up in trouble.

It is easy enough for we Australians....bloody Kiwis think we are their west island anyway, actually it is no different from moving to another state.
...but with worlds best hunting and fishing, and with all those uppy and downy thingys....hills I think they call them.

I've experienced the same with my booking agency. Several of my outfitters were full or nearly full for 2013. In the last two weeks i've had a few cancellations (from self employed business owners) stating that the concern for 2013 and beyond is a bit much. In other words, they are sitting out 2013. I am not a "half empty" kind of guy but it does not feel good to get cancellations on otherwise "solid" clients.

Friends,

As most of you know, Karen and I retired from our retail jewelry store. It was a mom & pop operation; both of us are Graduate Gemologists and I'm a journeyman gold & platinumsmith, plus I was a Certified Master Watchmaker (AWI).

We literally did all of our own work and sent out practically nothing. THAT is the key to making a decent income.

Having said that, I would surely HATE to be in our former jewelry business today. How could we ever give our clients their moneys worth at $1,750 gold and $1,575 platinum (which is alloyed with irridium ($1,075/Toz itself).

And with practically every family struggling to make economic ends meet, the high prices I would HAVE to charge .... UG, it just makes me shiver.

Even repair would be quite difficult. I used to charge $70 for a full ladies ring shank, making myself a handy $40 ... today, the material cost itself would be close to $200 and if I missed the estimate of 14K shanking material weight, I'd be easily in the dead loss column.

I have a good friend who is a retired manufacturing jeweler who has done work out of his home shop for the last several years (retired from Zell's, Carl Grieve and Shrieve's). He is a MASTER goldsmith and probably finer than I ever was.

He recently received a quote on 18k yellow gold shank stock to do a ladies ring ... the stock was $95 per pennyweight and the ring probably would take 4dwt to do. My friend mis-guestimated by one pennyweight and ended up doing the three-hour job for free and losing $100. Then the lasy complained like heck ... she could not afford the original estimate and wanted to renegotiate the price. He did what I would have done ... he GAVE her the ring, with his compliments and told her than his shop was closed forever.

He quietly pulled in his horns and is doing NO more work.

Tough times. Did I mention that I'm SO HAPPY to be retired and out of the economic mainstream?????

God Bless,

Steve

I posted the following in the classifieds forum but it belongs here as well.






We've paid tens and tens of thousands over the years in federal taxes but our business went to [bleep] and I'm now in hock to the IRS because I used money from my business to pay my mortgage and family expenses for the past couple of years instead of paying them so they could give an Obamaphone to the lazy piece of [bleep] pictured in the Youtube I posted above. I wasn't dodging taxes, it has been a matter of survival as our cash flow has dried up, it was either pay the Feds or keep a roof over my kid's heads. Until you own a business you have no idea how badly they bleed you, it's ridiculous. If they had given us some breathing room and not taxed us so heavily I wouldn't have even had a mortgage as it would have been paid off and I could have paid them on time. Now, I'm on a payment plan with the IRS which after interest and penalties will take me 5 years to pay off based on my current income from my business which is day to day, we've really been struggling to stay afloat these past couple of years and it's getting worse. It wasn't like we were living it up, we have just been surviving, but I realize it is more important to provide for trash like that in the Youtube video rather than those of us who actually work for a living. If I sound bitter and pissed it's because I am. They are destroying small business in this country. I feel like I have a target on my back.

I really get tired of all this crybaby crap about the election. You think our principles were totally rejected by the electorate? Hell, no. We took the House, didn't we? Obama got 9,000,000 fewer votes than in 2008, didn't he? The problem was that Romney got 3,000,000 less.

It's time to fight. Next election they won't have an incumbent. Here in Ohio their ground campaign was worthless. I know. I helped them. And I'm sorry. Romney wasn't much of a fighter. Danged fools were so out of touch they were predicting a landslide a week or so before the election. The Republicans screwed up. With any brains, they'll learn. We will be back.

For the outfitters seeing cancellations, I sympathize with you. I owned a business too, selling it in 2007 (thank goodness). But stick with it. Advertise a little more. Things will gradually improve.

I've been doing this over 20 years with growth 17 years in a row. The last three have declined to a questionable level. The next 2 look pathetic.

"Hang in there" is not a realistic view, hope is not a strategy. I do this for people around the world not just USA. Europe went flat 2 years ago and has a completely flat outlook.

This is very bad, I'm afraid it will degrade to a personal business for repeat hunters and tourists, with a few new referenced people. Rather then grow as the past 16-18 years were. Sad that all the investment and struggle with flawless references and my reputation cannot over come.

I think this was a bit over the top. Most of the posts are simply stating what has happened to their business. We are tightening our belt and feel that we can outlast Obama, but we are hearing the same thing from our customers. We are a wholesaler and a lot of our retail customers have closed their doors and others have cut their purchasing.

The ones I am angry at are the conservatives that would not vote for Romney because he wasn't conservative enough and the evangelicals that would not vote for a Mormon. They threw the election or else it would not have even been close.

We are less worried about us and our business than about our daughter and the young people of this country.

Well I am a pilot by profession, I do mostly bush type stuff or off shore oil support in helicopters. I just applied for a job that I thought I would be a good fit for, I even got a call from the Chief Pilot, One seat, he got 700 resumes, and 40 strong resumes for the one seat. I was in the final pile but there are a lot of guys on the streets looking. Its tough as tough as any I have seen. And the 1970's was tough, the only difference I was a young 22 year old in the market place with no experience and now I am close to 60 with fat logbooks. Its not good. I can see were guys would have second thoughts about a hunting or fishing trip. Nobody knows what the rules of the game is going to be, and this is being done on purpose, to cause and much uncertainty as possible. its a political calculation that seems to be working. Good grief the Federal Government has not had a budget since W's last budget. That going on four years now. All of this is plan to see if you just look.

Time for another generation to learn the hard way. Sad, though. Does this make me a crybaby, too?

Nothing I can add Steve, but I'm glad you are OK.

I would like to apologize to GeorgeL, GaryO, and JJ Hack for insensitively implying you were crybabies. It never occurred to me my comments would be taken that way though I can see now how they could be.

I have the greatest respect for small business, having operated one for many years and sold it in 2007, after growing it substantially. People ask me how I had the foresight to sell it then. Well, it was pure luck.

Rather I am P.O.ed at all the whining among the Republicans about how this election means we are doomed, must change our principles, etc. You three gentlemen were not among the whiners.

Good luck with your businesses. I think this too will pass. Right now, at least around here, everything seems to be on hold pending the tax cliff resolution or lack thereof. People do not fear what they know will happen but rather what they don't know will happen. My own PH in Zimbabwe, whom I hunted with in 2011, is in the same boat as JJ.

I too fear for my children and grandchildren.

All any of us can do is tough it out but apply pressure so that the Republicans in the House don't "go wobbly" on us.

Have they no compassion?

Have they no humanity?

Have they no Rio Grande?

This was to be my year for Africa, now I'm holding off to see how things shake out. We own a small business and I work for a large health insurance company, too much unknown right now to pull the trigger.

I'm sorry but priorites have changed. I've wanted to hunt Africa since I was a kid...and I was "that" close. Maybe next year.

I was days away from booking a trip to Africa. Had to hold off. Too much uncertainty with the job to risk that much money. Government inaction has created great uncertainty in DoD. Industry and govt programs alike are not doing much until the path forward becomes clearer.

I too was hoping to be able to go to Africa in 2013 but just too many questions. I don't trust our government and I'm not sure the Congress will stay strong.

Guys,

You are foolish to wait.

- Botswanna is closing

- Mugabe has wrecked Zim

- Zambia has closed hunting to residents

- RSA is making it more difficult to bring in rifles, and the Majority Government is slowly but surely weakening the country and seizing land.

- Moz has not become the go to destination due to various problems, including costs, lack of infrastructure, game decimated by the prolonged war, and the fact that the South Africans have to do everything for them with regards to hunting.

- Lions are disappearing as wild untouched land shrinks

- Cost has made Tanzania become the destination only for European Industrialists and oil Sheiks.

The point is that Africa will never get better or cheaper. There is no telling what this UN Small Arms Treaty will do to travel with hunting arms once the bureaucrats and functionaries get to it.

If you have the time and money to go now, by all means go! You are not getting any younger or fitter. Prices aren't going down.

+1000.

There's always Texas (for when woulda-coulda-shoulda kicks in.) Listen to jorgeI, hatari,...

I took my family 4 years ago about the time everything in my business was getting hit. Made the decision to go and I am glad I did. There were times I wish I had some of that money back for comfort but in the end Im glad I didn't back out.







Enjoy today. Believe it or nor if things stay in the suck you have pleasure knowing you got to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Then you can let Obama take care of you
Those damn rich owe it to us you know

JJ,

With the outcome of the election, and looming long-term care costs for my MIL, my wife and I have cancelled this year's Africa safari.
I do part-time consulting work, which has all but dried up as the oppressive Obama policies on oil and gas leasing continue their stranglehold on my industry.
Our hunting, fishing, and recreational activities will be confined to the US, for the time being, with cheaper (or no) air fares, lower or nonexistent outfitters charges, etc. We're not out of money, but we are increasingly concerned about what the future has in store.
I also think that in addition to the reality of adverse effect on business, there is a general air of pessimism about the future, that can't help but suppress spending on just about everything.

There are many of us who feel down about this whole mess. However, we will be better off to buck up and forge ahead with life. We could be in Syria right now, eh?

Thank God we're not in Syria, hatari- or any other eastern country, for that matter.
But, you suggest another point, that affects many of us, and that is our increasing loss of freedom in this country.
Air travel, for instance, has gotten way more difficult than it used to be, largely due the aftermath of 9-11. Transporting firearms has become orders of magnitude more difficult than it used to be, and I don't see that fact changing for the better in our lifetimes.

Two years ago, I had a mule deer hunt booked to Mexico, that both I and my outfitter gave up on because of increasing drug traffic violence in the area we intended to hunt.
Did the election have anything to do with Mexico? Of course not, but the point being that nothing will be done about Mexico by the current administration to change the situation.

As to your comment that this to shall pass....... I would like to know what your smoking so the rest of us can get some of it too.

I hear you. While Mexico is not the subject of thread, like you I like it is a crime what is going on with our boarder, and the fact it is not safe to hunt on either side of it is incomprehensible. People hunted Rhodesia and Zambia during the bush war and had fewer problems.

I'm sorry you're struggling through the Bush/Obama recession. Though I didn't hear any of you crying when George W Bush got elected, and we went from a 280 billion dollar surplus to a a 180 billion deficit in one year (before 9/11)! Neither did I hear any republicans crying about the deficit as they signed one national debt increase after another without a sound during the Bush administration. We went from creating 20 million jobs during 8 years of Clinton to 2 million during 8 years of Bush. Hate to confuse anyone with facts though ... I'm not an Obama fan, but I'd vote for Clinton (Bill) for president again in a heartbeat. I thing we should accelerate over the fiscal cliff, raise taxes for everyone, reform entitlements, leave sequestration in place and balance the budget and then pass a balanced budget amendment. We should try living within our means for once. The economy will recover over time and be stronger than ever.

You must have been tone deaf then because the Tea Party was formed because Bush and the Republicans were fiscal profligates. As for Clinton at best he was a pragmatist because his first 2 years were a disaster and he was extremely unpopular. We wont be so lucky with the current occupier.

colorado....you and the rest of the blue states can stick it up your azzz as far as I'm concerned.

Actually colorado is a swing state, but you can secede as far as I'm concerned azzzhole, finally give us a good reason to build that damn fence ...

Why the talk about Bush? Who was tooting Bush's horn? Why would anyone even bring it up when 0 has made the same mistakes time ten plus a thousand more?

I do not disagree with some of the solutions proposed but you need to realize that 0 is, by Alinsky blueprint, a divider and not a uniter. Read the Alinsky rules for radicals and you will see the vast chasm between Bush and 0. This is not just a little more spending.

Well, that escalated quickly!

I am going again and soon. There are always things to worry about. There will always be naysayers. Go while you are healthy enough. Be strong fear not.

Escalators go both up and down-
In this case, down........

I just learned of another Obama recession casualty.

In 2011 I hunted with Gavin Rorke in Zimbabwe. It was a new concession and Gavin had spent a lot of money getting it in shape. The hunt was excellent--lion, bull elephant, and buffalo were bagged among others. The accommodations were first class. I almost signed up to return in 2013 for leopard and sable but decided against it in part because of the economy.

Now I learn that Gavin is out of business and has sold out to Charlton McCallum Safaris. Gavin will act as PH for the safaris he has sold in 2013 and 2014. CMS, incidentally, has an excellent reputation.

One more small business and safari outfitter bites the dust.

Elections have consequences. Make sure you vote in 2014.

I'm not far behind. I can survive another couple seasons like this at most. Three like this will be the end I'm sure.

We are all learnig the hard way that outfitters are small businesses like many others. A bad economy hits small business owners especially hard. I hate to think what the next four years will bring. It is alright to not know anything if you are willing to listen to those who know more than you. The current administration does not understand what makes our economy grow and is to not smart enough to seek the advice of those that do. A lot of average presidents got to be good presidents by surrounding themselves with smart people. Sadly, I don't think that will happen in the next four years.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings (esp) to all you Americans but you're making a BIG mistake if you think the Obama effect is going to touch your world for just 4 years.

Obama is nothing more than a black (or rather half-chat) version of Tony Blair. Everything from hand gestures, to speech style to policies AND most importantly, hidden policies and agendas are identical.

Bliar lost power in 2007 & not only is the country still suffering from the damage he wreaked on everything from the economy to it's society & social structure, it'll be suffering for DECADES to come & I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff that the Obama effect will do exactly the same to the USA....... & also the rest of the world.

Only the strong will survive IMO. Small business better find a way to adapt to it. My strongest advice (which is worth exactly what people pay for it----nothing) is to get out of debt and stay there, both business wise and personally. The only difference in our Republicans and Democrats is that the Democrats will get us where we're headed quicker..........down the schittter. We'll wind up in the same place eventually anyway.

I'm VERY sorry to hear this....being a member of this forum I always respected you as an outfitter and your comments on stuff here. Many good hunters you've taken to Africa and all good reports.

Hate to see a good guy like you have to lay your business down because of this bad economy but its totally understandable...Wish you only the best!

Indy, I vividly remember as a kid hearing my grandfather say exactly this same thing to my father. That was Cuba 1960. History tells us that despite the many sacrifices made in opposing that regime, it didn't "pass."

I'm afraid our current situation won't "pass" either if we "just hope" that it will. A charismatic socialist demagogue promising the most naive and ill-informed voters - idealistic college students - "hope and change" while preaching and promoting class hatred, is a powerful and destructive force in any society. We are now experiencing the result. This change and this regime are not like other political events in our past.

A valid concern, for as you might see from my reference above, history is prologue. Hopefully our concern for our children and grandchildren will translate into greater participation in the electoral process in our future elections by those of us who believe that our founding principles are still our best basis for enduring Liberty.

IMHO rather than just cursing the darkness in despair, our history has taught us that resolutely organizing locally to politically oppose to these unconstitutional changes to our democracy is the most effective path. Let's provide the world with a shining example of our Exceptionalism once again. We still remain the last, best hope for freedom.

So, is it too soon to ask about the cancellation hunt prices?

In regard to health care which will affect everything else, I am afraid we are going to look back from some very difficult times ahead. I have a cousin who owns some restaurants, and is just at the fifty employees limit; he was holding off expanding to another facility pending the election. No more. Multiply this thousands of times.

I think I already see it in decreased patient numbers in our facility. I believe we are going to see a disaster either very acutely but more probably mitigated by a long, drawn out painful (no pun intended) process with great increases in costs (many health care dollars going to a bureaucracy), less accessibility (determined by age, etc-rationing), and lower quality.

Even CPAs and tax guys are going nuts right now when they are usually sending out their end-of-the-year tax planning letters. They don't know what's going to happen.

They'll be calling OBAMA O-BAN-A before his second mandate is over.
Feinstein has already got the ball rolling on the mother-of-all gun ban bills after the Newton, Connecticut mass school shooting tragedy.

I notice that a lot of heads are disappearing into the sand on the impending Feinstein ban bill as if we can ignore the issue and it will go away.
Doing that is like ignoring cancer and hoping it will go away.
This is a time for American gun owners to be writing & phoning their federal representatives and senators like never before and DEMANDING that they not be punished for the actions of a lunatic.

If everyone had acted as if Obama was going to win the election and continue is destruction of our country maybe it would have prevented his reelection.

The real problem with the election was the MSM or propaganda arm of the progressives and the fact that Romney didn't fight. He should had called Obama a tyrant for violations of the constitution. He should have called him a liar and betrayer of our men in Libya. I could go on, but you get the point.

We own two small businesses outside of DC. DC has one of the strongest economies in the US due to the government. My wife runs a job placement agency & closed her office & laid seven employees off. She now works from home & has had no income in three months. Private businesses are simply not hiring. I supplement my small electrical design business by teaching shooting & working as an armed guard. Many small business owners are struggling to survive & it will get worse as Obamacare kicks in. The Republican party is no longer a national force. Gingrich said it best. The Democrat party has built a machine while the Republicans have been running elections. To ever become a national force again the Republican party must adapt the tactics of the Democrats. It will not be easy. In the past I have been on three safaris, but at 70 never expect to hunt Africa again.

Romney had to be extremely careful how he fought back. He didn't have the majority of the media drinking his coolaid and worshipping him like Obama does.

Republicans will have a hard time until they can turn the media tide in their favor. There are too many undiscerning voters who lap up everything the leftist media puts out. Perhaps too many people have just given up and don't vote?

I hate to say it, but the Republicans need to put aside social conservatism (abortion, daycare, medicare etc) and campaign on fiscal conservatism. That is how Stephen Harper has been able to with a few elections here in Canada. That and the left has split it's vote with the NDP and Liberals. But hey, it's worked since about 2005.

There's also a marked increase in Americans looking to leave the USA because of that useless tosser Obama..... I'm currently being approached by an average of something like 2 Americans per week asking me what property prices and cost of living etc are like here in Portugal.

Really? And here I always thought it was the liberals that were all set to move out if the conservatives won.

Probably really good hunting in Portugal I bet.... NOT

Brent

That's what I thought when I moved here but Portugal must be the best kept secret in the hunting world.

HUGE Iberian red deer, fallow deer, wild boar and no end of fantastic wing shooting abound and at prices that are about half the price of the nearest competition.

Here's an Iberian red deer I took a few weeks ago & this would be considered nothing more than a good representative of the species rather than a particularly good trophy.



The fishing is also phenomenal.

This one might be considered a good trophy

This is one of those moment of truth times in American history.

If American gun owners puzzy out and give up like a lot of the talk indicates is happening we lose everything and the second amendment will be completely gutted by the end of Obamas tenure and American domestic policy will be dictated by the UN when Obama signs the ATT and surrenders American sovereignty to a band of international dictators in collusion with George Soros.

We need to get on our representatives and senators to defeat the Feinstein ban bill& rally against the ATT.

If we stand and fight and support the NRA and other organizations we will win this fight.

I for one refuse to be scapegoated and punished for the actions of criminals and nut cases because the American media has now become the "tyrannical regime" the founding fathers warned us about. The media has become the tyrant that is attempting to rule us through their prejudicial propaganda.

Never was a truer word spoken.

You guys over there had a very good reason for the 2nd amendment and the reasons for keeping it are just as important now as they was then.

I support you guys all the way.

Unfortunately alotta (and I mean alotta) heads need to be pulled out of the sand so the fight to preserve and protect 2A can begin in earnest.
We need to contact and rally the politicians to the cause including the ones who have historically been our friends as many are faltering under media pressure.
We need to get organized and active and support the NRA.

Sharkari,
I'll have reconsider my thoughts on Portugal. But I don't see any Absaroka Mts in Portugal

Seriously though, looks like there is some good hunting there.

Brent

Some parts of central Portugal are fairly mountainous but the general area I hunt in is Castelo Branco and is mostly very similar to the rolling hills of Zululand so not too difficult for retired old farts like me.

the main big quarries are red & roe deer & wild boar (I get a lot of wild boar around the house here as well).

Smaller quarry is mostly foxes, hares & rabbits. Then there's the wingshooting and that's mostly walked up (over pointers) or driven partridges and a fair bit of duck shooting.

If you're a fisherman then the inland lakes/flooded valleys have tip top coarse and trout fishing. I'm also told that some fishing venues here even have sturgeon in them and the sea fishing (including marlin) is (I'm told) some of the best in Europe.

I didn't expect to find much hunting here at all when I emigrated from Africa but was very pleasantly surprised to find I was wrong in that assumption.

The game laws are a tad complicated but I booked through Athina Hunting Tours who are based in the UK and they were brilliant.

As for prices, they're considerably cheaper than in the adjoining countries......... but for some reason, the Portuguese couldn't sell a shag in a knocking shop and I reckon that's why no-one seems to have hunted here.

I don't know anything the Absokora Mountains I'm afraid but assume they're big and beautiful..... I'd like to see them but am too short, too old and too stuffed up to go climbing them I'm afraid.

So the rolling hills of Castelo Branco will do me fine nowadays.

Well thanks for the post. I learned something.

couldn't sell a shag in a knocking shop


God i hope I can remember that long enought to pass it along.

No-one but no-one knows how to market here...... It took me 6 months to realise I have a car accessory shop up the road..... It has no signing at all & black tinted windows & that's absolutely typically Portuguese.

The restaurant we use for lunch when we go hunting looks like a private house or maybe a run down coffee shop from the outside but you walk in & it's fabulous.

The food is also great but this place doesn't even have a menu..... they just tell you the choices.