I have been having a heck of a time deciding on a rifle and scope to take to Africa next year. I am on a very tight budget and i am looking for something practical that has a wide range of uses. I dont plan on shooting anything extremely large but i would like to be able to have the capability of shooting longer distances(500ydish) with some emph. I plan on hunting Gemsbuck, Zebra, and maybe Blesbuck. I also hunt the larger North American game as well. I have been directed and i am pretty much have my mind set on a 300 win mag. I have found a Savage 111 with a prostaff 3-9x40 for $519. Thats the rifle i am most interested in as of now. I have 2 other Savages and love them so i favor them the most plus they are very affordable which is a plus for me. I would like to keep the budget at $1200 for this rifle and scope combo. I would remove the scope off that rifle and use it on one of my others. As far as a scope, I would like something a tad bit larger than a 3-9. But some thing with low enough power to shoot at closer ranges. I would also like a side focus parallax and finger adjustable turrets. I dont even know if this is possible with my budget. I would like to stay under $500 for the scope but the one ive seen that fit the bill are $559, The Vortex Viper HS long range 4-16x44. Im not very scope savvy. Ive always cheaped out on scopes and always had to replace them. I also want to learn about the turrets better, ive never used them. Can you buy adjustable turrets and install them on any scope? I always mesmerized trajectory tables and would hold high to compensate for the given range. I have approximatly a year to work out everything and i wanted to start with the rifle set up since it is most important, in my mind, then practice, practice, practice. Sorry for this being very scattered but i wrote it as it came to mind. Any advice, thoughts, direction would be greatly apretiated!

Sniper scopes and your budget don't meet...

Where are you hunting in Africa that you need 500 yards?

No place these species exist in nature will you "need" 500 yards. A long shot even in the open areas of the eastern cape and the Desert habitat of Namiba and the kalahari would be well under 500 yards. I'm not sure any PH is going to be judging game and calling shots at 500 yards.

If you set up for 300 yards for all the typical species in Africa you would be well sorted. If you're hunting in the NP of RSA or the same area in Zimbabwe or even Botswana, Getting a 300 yard shot would be harder then finding a trophy animal.

Long shots in the bush are 75-150 yards. Where are you hunting, and was it your outfitter or PH that told you to prepare for 500 yard shots?

Just as a side note here.

My hunters quite often use my 30/06 rather then bringing a rifle. It uses a 3.5-10 VX3

Nobody has needed more power, or more magnification then this. It has been used in the Kalahari, the Eastern Cape, and the Drakensburg mountains as well as our home base in the NP

You seem to be way over thinking this decision.

JJ gave some excellent advice. I will add that if your PH is advising you to gear up for 500 (or 400, or 300) yard shots, you need to find another PH. And forget about the turrets and the side focus. When you have stalked up on an animal that is 100 yards away, that is not the time to fiddle with your scope. That is the time to get on the sticks and shoot. By the way, buy a good pair of shooting sticks and use a scope-sighted, bolt action .22 rifle to send several thousand rounds down range between now and your safari. Work on accuracy first and then add speed to getting set up and taking the shot.

RS

A 3 to 9 scope is all you need.

Ditto for a .30/06.

You might be able to locate a used Winchester 70 Featherweight in '06 with a VX-III or a Zeiss Conquest on it that is within your budget range. All the better if the current owner will let you shoot a few groups out of it before you seal the deal.

That combo with Federal's new Copper bullet or the Vortex loaded TTSX in 165 or 180 grain weights and you are GTG on your safari.

i dont want a sniper scope, thanks tho

I will be hunting in S. Africa and Namiba. I have no intentions of shooting 500yds in africa nor has my PH told me i will need to prepare for that. This rifle is not only for africa. I can not afford to have a rifle specifically used for africa and nothing else. This rifle will be a elk, moose, bear, deer, coyote, woodchuck, whatever i decide to hunt in africa, and target gun. I enjoy shooting, and i enjoy shooting longer distances at the range. I wouldnt be getting a 4-16 or whatever i decide to use the magnification hunting. Thats why i stated i wanted a scope that would have a fairly low beginning range of magnification. when i hunt i always have my scope on the lowest power until i get in a position where i am able to adjust.

I'd heed JJ's advice. Since you are on a tight budget, if the PH has a loaner - use it. Take the money saved and shoot another trophy, and worry about what you need for your North American bucket list later.

The scope is also in the same boat as the rifle. I can not buy a scope just for Africa, then buy one just for target shooting at longer ranges. I just cant afford to do that nor do i want to. That VX-3 you mentioned is a very nice scope for shorter ranges than i want to be able to shoot and larger animals. But i want something that is a little more powerful for the farther shots and/or smaller game and something with the features i mentioned before. I thought that vortex was a good all around scope since it is only .5 more powerful at its lowest but also is 6 settings more powerful at its highest setting. And not to mention, its about the same price as your Leupold.

Disregarding what you want for your hunting at home, for what you are planning to do in Africa a fixed 6 power scope sitting on an accurate 30.06 loaded with 180 grain Nosler Partitions or something similar would be hard to beat...

If the PH where you are going has one that you can use, go for that and study more on what you want at home in the meantime.

that's what I'd do in your situation.

Step up to a Savage .338 - stick a Burris 1.5-6 on it and you are set for life. My .375 H&H with that scope puts three 235 grain Speer bullets into 2 inches at 300 yards from a good rest. IMHO longer range shooting at living animals (humans NOT included)is only engaged if starving or incapable of hunting (stupid).

Terry

My "go to" rifle for almost all my hunting is a Ruger M77 stainless laminate hawkeye in .300 win mag and topped with a Zeiss Conquest 3.5- 10 x 44. I just took 6 animals in Africa last month and will be using it again in New Zealand in May.

My longest shot in Africa on 2 trips was 300 yds. Most were at or under 150yds.

Try Ebay and get yourself a Leupold vx-3 3.5-10, or a 4.5-14. I have purchased many new and used Leupolds on Ebay and have never had any problems. There are quite a few 3.5-10's on there right now going for about $300. Some still in the box! Kevin

I'd question the ability to afford the complete hunt if you are having a hard time affording the rifle and sights that go with it.

Going cheap will work often. But as you've noted you are not a one time hunter. Buy it once, buy it right IMHO.

For what JJ has mentioned,I'd not be feeling undergunned with one of my 308s at all..

Thanks for the Response! I thought i was crazy for wanting to take a 300 win mag from what others were telling me. Im not very scope intelligent nor do i know alot about the good brands or the ones i should stay away from. Ive had other people on a different forum tell me that the vortex are the best for the money and for the performance and that they are very durable. Thats the reason why im looking into them. From the research ive done it seems that you get more for your money with them than the other known companies, am i wrong? And what kind of rounds were you using if you dont mind me asking? Thanks Again

So, since i want to budget myself on a rifle, that must mean i can not afford to hunt?

One rifle cannot do everything for every hunting situation, much like a fishing rods or golf clubs ( so Iv'e been told?)

I think some of the folks here are reading the very strong concern over an outstanding 1200.00 rifle scope combination. Then wondering how you pull of a $10,000 two country hunt with airfare and trophy shipping trophy fees, daily fees, taxidermy, and all that little stuff that adds up to a couple thousand more bucks. Like for instance the several hundred bucks for a quality air travel case, and the pre-issued permit fees, field glasses, cameras, boots and the plethora of additional "nickel and dime items that come up. Unfortunately there are not many "nickel and dime" items when going to Africa. They turn out to be 50-100 dollar items!

It's certainly possible you have managed this trip to the penny and you have a budget to manage for the gun. That's cool, but it does tend to sound like a fella buying a Bugatti and trying to make a deal on new tires for it. There is no real difference in the best options for a big game rifle in North America, and the rifle scope combo needed in Southern Africa for Plains game.

If you in fact have the 10K plus for this two country trip, and can fund the rifle scope combo for another 1200.00 why worry beyond this? The cartridge is a perfectly functional choice, and so is that scope. You're not hunting DG with it.

Of the 400 plus hunters I have had in my career, the most popular cartridge by far has been the 300 mag of one flavor or another. Of those using it, I would guess that 9 out of 10 used a 3-10 0r 3-9 or something right in that magnification range. Not a single one has ever needed more or less. Although some had scopes of lower quality that lost shooting light well before they should have. The magnification range was just fine.

What kind of rifle is your 30-06?

I will be of no help for what rifle/scope to buy but what do you currently have?

you might just need a better scope on a rifle you already own, or swap scopes around

Every serious big game rifle I have is a CRF winchester

I have a .223, a savage 11 in .243, a savage 10 in 7mm-08, and a marlin 30-30. I do not have any scopes that are worth anything

I'm a bit confused on the direction of this thread now.

Is your question " what scope should I buy" ?

Well that crf and your leupold comes out to $1300. So your telling me I need to raise my budget $100 to be able to afford to hunt Africa? You said im hunting 2 countries, What 2 countries am I hunting?

I think he's reading what you wrote.

look at the Meopta line. A lot of scope for the money and real quality all the way.

Hack: In my old line of work it's time to punch out some chaff & flares, unload the airplane cobb on all the power and knots she'll give you, extend distance and GTF out of Dodge!....

Jorge, I cannot even type on this iPhone I'm laughing so hard I cannot hold it steady!

Savage88:

My wife and I have been going to Namibia every year for the past eight years. I've also completed the RSA PH course a couple of years ago.

You already have 7-08 and as long as all you are after is PG, you shoot it well and load it with heavy for caliber TSXs as fast as you can push them, in my opinion you have all the rifle you really "need". My PH friend has a "loaner" in 7x57 that has taken everything up to Eland.

If you want to get a better scope, you can find used Leupolds on Ebay for half the price of new all day long. As far as magnification goes, there are not many people that can shoot well off of sticks with much more than over 4x power. With a little practice you can learn to shoot with both eyes open on 2x for close-in thick brush. You can find a good used Leupold VX-II for under $250 or a 2-7 Leupold Rifleman for around $175. When it comes in, you send it off to Leupold to have it checked out ($10 shipping) and it comes back in a few weeks good as new and if was seriously screwed up they ship you a brand new one.

If you're dead set on a new rifle think about a CZ550 in 9.3x62. You can find them brand new on Gunbroker for under $800. That caliber is just under the power level of a 375 H&H and the recoil isn't much more than a 12ga with field loads. It will knock the stuffing out of all PG in Africa and everything in N. America as well. Only downside to the 9.3 is finding off the shelf ammo in the States but it is everywhere in Africa.

$375 for a used Leupy on the Classified Boards in 3.5 x 10. I picked up a USED VXIII in 2.5 x 8x. It seemed to work, as I killed a bunch of animals in Zim last fall. I think it cost around $325?

I like taking my own rifle. I borrowed a PH's .308 on my honeymoon to shoot a warthog. But I like to bring my own. You can pick up a used Model 70 on the boards and still be under $1100 total.

DON'T get the 9.3 x 62. You can't find ammo for it anywhere in the states. Yes they are cool, but get a 30-06 or .300 Win Mag and you will be fine.

SB45:

True enough on finding off the shelf 9.3 ammo in the US. Can order it on-line from a lot of sources though. Expensive but available. Since I'm a devoted re-loader, factory ammo isn't an issue. 30-06 is a very viable option with ammo available pretty much world-wide.

IF and I do mean IF the UN Arms Treaty is ever fully implemented and more countries and airlines actually increase the enforcement of some existing laws and regulations they already have on the books that prohibit the transport of any caliber firearm and ammo that has "ever" been a military service caliber anywhere, things will get tougher in the long-term for all us traveling hunters since so many calibers originated or where at some point military "issue" calibers.

Since the OP seems to be a fan of the Savage Arms line and thinks his current 7-08 is "not enough" for African PG and is on a tight budget, I just re-checked the Savage web site. They make a stainless/synthetic rifle and Weaver 3-9x40 scope package called "International Trophy Hunter XP with a MSRP of $795. Get that in 375 Ruger and he would be good to go anywhere in the world and any animal in the world for the rest of his days and have the "emph" he stated in the OP out to 500yds. IIRC, Leupold bought out Weaver a couple of years ago.

I just went out to Gunbroker and found one NIB with a Nikon 3-9x40 with the BDC recital (next best thing to "turrets") for $585. The OP would have enough left over in the budget for another trophy fee. He'd probably still have to order ammo on-line in the US or get into reloading, but it has become pretty prevalent in RSA and Namibia where he said he was planning on going.

3 years ago, a year ahead of my first trip, I contemplated for over a year about what rifle/scope I wanted. I was shooting a Savage 7-08 with a Zeiss scope, but knew I wanted something larger and more of a longer distance gun because I knew my plans after Africa was to hunt out West and Alaska/Yukon.
One rifle for everything.
I opted for the Savage Weather Warrior in 300WSM with a Leupold VX3L 3.5-10. I have a CDS on it matched to my bullets. It has the half moon cut out of the bottom so my scope sits lower and is more comfortable to shoot.
I love it.
But, I got the scope on sale for $600 and the rifle was $860, so total was over $1500 after tax.

I plan to go back to Africa in 2014, this time my wife is coming. She wants Kudu, Impala, Blesbok, springbuck. She will use her Savage 7-08 ladyhunter which is her deer rifle and it will be all she needs.

but, reading M3Taco, his option sounds great. In fact, dawgonit, now I want one of them Savage 375's.

Based on the rifles you currently own, a .300 WM would compliment them nicely and would work well for Africa and other future hunts. I don't have any experience with Vortex, but I have a number of Zeiss Conquest and you can find a 3-9 x 40 for under $400.

Another suggestion, if you're planning to bring your own rifle, I'd recommend using a rifle permit "meet and greet" like Henry Durrheim . For a first timer, it's $100 well spent to take the hassle out of dealing with SAPS.

My rifle shoots the Barnes 165 gr TTSX very well, so that's what I use. I've taken all of the larger plainsgame (with the exception of eland) with that bullet and had good results.

Ive only been to Africa once and oure group shot about 20 animals including eland. I used a Savage SS 1o in 7mm WSM and my son used a Rem 700 in 300 WSM. My daughter a 308 and my cousin a 300 WSM. The conclusions I came to, are if the bullet is good quality for the game and its plasced well, the Animals drop. They may run a short way but they drop, including eland. If the shot isnt perfect you may have to walk a bit. Barnes TSX and Nosler partitions just fine. Point ius 7-08 will work, 300 winns will work and Savage will work. My estimation of quality and use for the $, Bushnel elite scopes are hard to beat. A Savage 300 WM or WSM will run 1/2 a hundred or so and a Bushnel 2.5-10 is about 400$. Fits thge budget, will shoot almost anything you want to hunt. Not DG of course. A word to the wise on Savage products, I find their quality control is not exemplary, so shoot it for praqctice before you go, check all your ammo for function(especially let the ejector kick the empties out) ( mine didnt all the time<ejector issue>)( infact would accept about 8-or 10 caserims). Keep things on budget and enjoy your trip.

Savage 88,
If you are concerned about the cost of a rifle and scope,
how do you feel about the cost of a round trip airline ticket?
Just curious,
whelennut

Maybe savage88 isn't a rifle loony like the rest of us. Sure doesn't mean he can't afford to hunt.
Add me in with the 30-06 and Leupold 3.5-10x40 crowd. This the combo I used in SA recently.
Most people here are recommending the Leupolds with good reason.

For heavens sake don't lob lead at these game animals at 500 yards. You are doing yourself a big injustice to the hunting and stalking experience and it doesn't say much about your hunting prowess.

When I was in SA I borrowed a Mauser 7x57 with iron sights from the land owner.
I didn't even get a chance to sight it in. The farm hands put on a drive for me and eventually a few came within range. They lectured me about wasting meat and when I asked how they did it. they responded that they only took head shots from a helicopter.
I had fun but it wasn't what I expected.

Whelennut:

That is really most unfortunate your RSA hunt wasn't conducted like you expected. The way you describe it, it sounds like it was more like a biltong/culling operation than a free-range/fair chase op. I use the word "conducted" on purpose as there are very inexpensive culling "hunts" wherein the landowner is just looking to reduce herd numbers and meat sales being the primary revenue stream and not "trophy fees". If that was indeed the case I can understand the "head shot" being the preferred POA.

I would hope you would seriously consider going back again to a operation that offers free-range/fair chase hunting. While it may sound "easy" to go after a particular animal mixed in a herd of 40-50 others, the serious challenge is in the stalking to within 100yds or less. Especially, since you have those same 40-50 extra sets of ears and eyes on the lookout and then toss in the "go-away" birds or eyes of the baboons that you can't see but they pick you up at 700yds and start barking and not to mention the multitude of any other number of species that you didn't or can't see in between that will "bust" your stalk in an instant.

Thank you, that's great advice! I will take it all into account. It's nice to hear from someone that doesn't think I'm not able to hunt unless I spend as much on a rifle as I do for the trip

Savage 88, I went to SA, Eastern Cape this spring on a plains game hunt. We are going back again, Lord willing 2015 if not next year if I can swing it. I rebooked for a twelve day hunt, 10 full hunting days 1x1 and $1000 credit towards trophy fees for $2800. Kudu trophy fee is $1150 (any size) for example of reasonable trophy fees. Throw in a few of the smaller game plus your airfare and dip and pack your looking at around $6000 +/-. You CAN do Africa on a working mans budget ! Good luck! Kevin

Way back in the 80's when I accompanied my wife on a business trip to SA
I did some reasearch and discovered that a plains game hunt was cheaper
than a guided elk hunt stateside.
Cape Buffalo cheaper than Alaskan Brown Bear!
My cull hunt was free courtesy of our host.
whelennut

All that is still true.

Thanks Kevin! These other guys on here think it can't be done unless you spend a fortune on everything

$6000 plains-game packages are common enough. You can realistically expect to double that between a few extra trophies, taxes, maybe a meet and greet, and transport to and from. Then there's air-fare, a room here and there, incidentals and tips. Better add another $5000 for that. Do you want to take your trophies home? Most do. Taxidermy and/or D&P, permits, air-freight, brokerage add up too. If you can't turn a $6000 safari into $20,000 you're not even trying. The good news is you can spread it over 2 or 3 years.

Its still worth it.

I just returned from a 7 day plains game hunt (7 hunting days, 9 days total). My package was $7500 and trophies included red hartebeest, blesbuck, springbuck, nyala, bushbuck and waterbuck. Add airfare at $2100, one night hotel in NY $250, tips $600, trinkets $200, dip/pack/freight $1500 budgeted and the taxidermy stateside $4400 quoted.
Total: $16550.00
It adds up awfully fast.

But the experience and memories are worth every penny!!!

My 7 hunting day pg hunt in Limpopo in May is going to total
about $11,000 by the time my stuff gets home. Includes airfare, tips, mounting 2 heads and euro'ing the rest(is that a word?)
Going back in June and should spend about the same except the Mrs. is supposed to go and she wants an ostrich of all things!
Go while you can...you're not getting any younger.

I agree you can turn a $6000 pkg. into $12,000 very fast. Although the Eastern Cape Plains game hunt my wife, son and I went on this spring, seemed very economical. Here were our total costs.

1) 3 round trip tickets to Port Elizabeth from Rochester New York @ $1535 each = $4605

2) 10 full hunting days 1x1 for me, Sherry and Josh were observers. $2800 for me w/ $1000 credit towards trophy fees. $1000 each for Sherry and Josh. Also arrival day and departure day were included at no additional cost. $4800

3)Kudu- $1150, Black Wildebeest- $1000, Bushbuck- $700, Warthog-$475, Blesbok- $450, Impala-$400, Springbok-$300. Total-$4375 minus $1000 trophy fee credit= $3375

4)Tips PH, tracker and staff - $600

5)Dip and Pack, crate and ship. 7 european mounts, and salted skins of all the animals. $1450. I shared the crate with my buddy.

6) $500 misc.

Grand total $15,330

That is the whole thing I believe. We did get great deals on the flights and there were no rooms on either end. Our flights left Rochester NY at 6:30 am on Saturday and arrived in PE, SA at 1:30 Sunday afternoon. We were picked up at the airport that day then brought back to PE 12 days later to get on our flight at 12:30 pm. We then arrived back in Rochester New York the next day. Hope this helps. Kevin

So it worked out to 5 times your day rate? You did well on the plane tickets and the trophy fees seem to be quite reasonable depending on size. $3000 kudus certainly aren't unheard of.

When I see "Credit toward trophy fees" I automatically think auction hunt. My first hunt was one of those, bought on the secondary market for $2000. It came with a $2000 credit on trophy fees and free observer so basically was free, right? The total came to $25,000 by the time the heads were hanging on the wall, but I did have a lot of fun. Enough that I keep going back.

I'd be the last person to discourage someone from hunting Africa. The point I'm trying to make is that the appealing low prices are just the beginning and the potential new hunter should be aware of that.

Maybe there's three points:

1) Total costs are considerably higher than package or day-rate costs.

2)Against those costs the price of a new rifle means more or less nothing.

3)When the total costs are considered, buffalo hunting starts looking like a bargain.

Wow, Some free hunt huh? I agree the costs go up very fast. Although the hunt I went on with my family and a friend and his wife was not an auction hunt it was a very reasonably priced hunt in my opinion. I did my homework and spoke with many references. My buddy and I are going back without our families in 2015 or maybe next year if we can swing it. We booked again for $2800 each w/ $1000 credit towards trophy fees. The animals I got seemed to be good trophys to me. You can see the photos of all the animals on this forum (My safari with Mankazana this spring). Check them out if you would like. My buddy and I are hooked! And that Buffalo is beginning to look like a real bargain! Kevin

It does require some careful rationalization, but if you squint just right it is. I took two this year, but one in Moz and one in Oz. My son shot his first in OZ.

Im going to RSA in June and my old rusty Rem ADL with a 3x9 Leupold is what I will drag over there

No worries

Savage88 PM sent out. Kevin

Just reflecting on a hunt the family took in 2011, to the Limpopo for PG. Originaly just wife and myself, then daughters said , sounds like fun, and son was getting back from A-stan 2days before we left . So everyone piled on. We took a total of 12 animals on a 10 day hunt, went to a lion rescue(played w/ tiger teenagers). The costs in SA. came to a tad over $22K for the 4 of us. Trophies, airport pick up, gratuities, all the accessories. Airfare, roundtrip was about 1375$ @, 1500$ for late booking for son. Shipping on trophies and other incidentals added about 2000$. For 14 days travel, hunting lodging and all the etc. it was way cheaper than a semi-guided 3 day elk hunt in Co in 2008. And actually got to shoot several animals. Incidentally daughter took a wart hog and a wildebeest. She couldn't find a baboon(I think she was thinking of her ex-husband). Pardon my running on.

I was just wondering why on such a tight budget one is spending several thousands to hunt Africa, but has to skimp on the rifle/bullet/scope combo to hunt over there.

Save pennies until you can afford it better, then go!

You better hurry. With Botswana closing, Mugabe's thugs have just sent trophy fee prices through the roof. On principle, I'm "this close" to [bleep] my 2015 safari and go somewhere else...

Betterkeep me in that loop!

Shoemaker has an open invitation for us to do bear and moose....but its cold where lives!!

No worries Jeff I will. I'll see what shakes out at the Convention, but look at these trophy fees for 14, outrageous....

Baboon: 120.00 $ Eland: 1800.00 $

Impala: 350.00 $ Sable: 5000.00 $

Buffalo Bull: 5500.00 $ Elephant: 20500.00 $

Impala bait: 170.00 $ Serval: 600.00 $

Buffalo cow: 3500.00 $ Genet: 500.00 $

Jackal: 350.00 $ Steenbok: 450.00 $

Bushbuck: 1050.00 $ Giraffe: 2300.00 $

Klipspringer: 950.00 $ Tsessebe: 1150.00 $

Bush pig: 750.00 $ Grysbok: 550.00 $

Kudu: 1800.00 $ Warthog: 650.00 $

Caracal: 800.00 $ Hippo: 4500.00 $
Leopard: 6500.00 $ Waterbuck: 1900.00 $

Cheetah: 6000.00 $ Wildebeest: 1000.00 $

Lion: P.O.R. Hyena: 850.00 $

Civet: 800.00 $ Zebra: 1050.00 $

If you want a good hunt in SA at very fair prices give Wade Derby a shout at Crosshair Consulting. We did a family trip lat year through him with me and my three sons hunting for seven days and had a great time. Dear wife enjoyed it all as well.

JorgeI,

YIKES!

Never thought in a million years I would find myself saying Tanzania is looking better everyday...

That depresses me. Might have to grab some Buffalo Trace to wash all of that down.

The current 2014 list on John and Mazunga's site is thankfully not representative of the fees you listed Jorge. I'm assuming the fees you listed are an exception rather than the rule?

Have you had an opportunity to inquire with John, and get his on the ground assessment??

Exactly what I surmised. Thanks.