I posted this account of my good friend's recent buff hunt in Zim.

He took his Ruger Rigby, scored with one 400 gr. TSX.

This link gives the details, Guess I hijacked the .505 Gibbs thread, so will move it over here.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12085126/2

Interestingt is the PH's .416 comparison with my friend's .416. I asked what the PH used. It's a push feed M-70 in .416 Rem in a Hogue stock with 1.5-5 Leupold. The PH reportedly likes the Rigby, but the Rem is lighter by a few pounds. He had a brake added for recoil, uses solids on everything.

Now, that sorta goes against conventional Fire wisdom on several points: PF vs. CRF, solids on everything, barrel brake, Hogue stock.

My bud said he'd have had a better blood trail with a solid, so I guess he's listening to his PH.

Just wanted to throw that out for discussion.

DF

The 416 Remington is the more sensible choice. Smaller, trimmer action and same performance. Initial reports of pressure were exaggerated. The Rem is a great round. As to the PF/CRF issue, I prefer the latter, but have never really worried about it much. Unless in a 700 action with their flimsy extractor prone to failure, non-locking brazed bolt and of course the safety issue as everybody in Africa (or just about carries HOT), especially for dangerous game. After all that, I still toted an RSM in 416 Rigby with 400gr Swift A Frames

Jorge,

What are your thoughts on the PH using solids exclusively.

DF

PHs are in my view in a different category in they have to be ready for a worst case scenario and that to me spells ELEPHANT and HIPPO on dry land (rhino in the old days I guess). All the PHs I know eschew solids for client use on buffalo but just about all of them carry solids for that eventuality. For cats, they switch to softs.

I was entertained by the non-PC equipment the PH was using. It all makes perfect sense to me, even down to the Hogue stock and muzzle brake.

I can see how he came to those conclusions, just amused by how some Fire contributors would probably be on his case about two or three of these issues.

I guess him using a brake is more acceptable than a client using one. He may or may not be standing side by side with a client, client will be near PH for sure.

DF

I agree with that about the PHs.

Expanding bullets on buffalo are my choice as a client. I've used both enough to be convinced that unless the solid hits the central nervous system, buff and other plains game go down faster with a well placed appropriately made expanding bullet than a solid in the same location. When it comes to stopping a charge, no doubt a solid is the way to go.

I will be taking a NH M70 416 Rem with a handload using the 350 gr TSX. I goes right at 10# loaded and ready to go.

I've always liked that rifle.

DF

That PH undoubtedly had faith in his rifle, bet he and your buddy had the same faith in the Big Ruger.

Dang right, that rifle of Ed's is a nice stick.

PH reportedly liked the big Ruger, thought it was a bit heavy. Preferred his lighter .416 Rem.

I was surprised to hear the PH had a muzzle brake. Have heard stuff about brakes being a no-no among PH's.

DF

Quite often a PH has to make do to a more or less extant with what is available and what he can afford. The 416 Rem is the no brainer of the 416s when it comes to that decision. Lots use that and the standard 458 because of ammo availability and price. As far as the Hogue, he scored it and it worked out?? And why not on the muzzle break? When he shoots, the blast ain't s$%%& compared to the shot he needs to make. As well as favoring a light rifle. He carries it a hell of a lot more than he uses it.

My bud said the PH has an assortment of ammo left by clients, uses solids on most everything.

Agree with carrying the .416 a lot more than shooting it, so why not the brake on a lighter rifle...

Reportedly, PH's don't like brakes on client guns. Shots are usually made with the PH near by or side by side.

If the PH is in the bush, tracking down a wounded critter, not so much the case. Although my buddy was right there with him when they found the dead buff.

DF

I can tell you PHs (and Guides) HATE muzzle brakes for obvious reasons.

+1 on that. Anyone who has hunted much with someone that has a muzzle brake will hate them due to the noise and the resulting damage to eardrums.

The M70 in .416 Rem, even though it is heavier than it needs to be, is still lighter than the Ruger RSM Rigby. I'm sure the PH's rifle with the Hogue stock is even lighter. Makes sense when you have to carry that rifle every day. I also bet he carries the push feed because that is what he could get his hands on, not necessarily what he would choose if he had a choice.

As for solids, I agree that they make sense for the PH, not necessarily for the client, though. I will say that when I was tracking a wounded buff bull that had a messed up leg due to poacher's snares, the PH didn't want him getting into the long grass and wanted to make sure we cut him down right away. At that point, he instructed me to switch to solids, which I did. A quick lung shot stopped him and put him down, so the solid worked just as well as a soft in that situation.

On my first trip to Zim, an elephant hunt, I was separated from my rifle and duffle for the first 2 days. The outfitter lent me his SS Rem M-700 in 416 Rem with a Leupold 3-9x scope on it. I carried it reluctantly until my rifle caught up.

On my next trip, I found out that was his lending gun. He carried an open sighted Win M-70 CRF 458 Lott. This time I had no trouble, my DR 500 NE 3" made it with me all the way to camp. I like 416s, both the Rem and Rigby variants, but prefer 404s. No rational advantage I can see to either, just a matter of personal preference.

BTW, my favorite use of the RSM 416 Rigby is converting it to 450 Rigby Rimless Mag. Did that with one I intend to take to Africa next year as part of my revised 2-rifle battery, although my second RSM remains an unmodified 416 Rigby, a nod to tradition. More rifle lunacy

Precisely why I will gravitate to the 400 Whelen, 450-400 Nitro and 375 Flanged Magnums when I get too old to shoot the real heavies, will NEVER use a braked rifle to make up for my lack of physical strength at the expense of others hearing.

Someone,(a client) would have to be a real little bitch to use a break! Oh, the recoil hurts too much! These are the same tough guys that sit around the camp fire in the evening and boast of their accomplishments. Always love the 300 RUM guys at the range. Wussies! I shoot 300 Weatherby no break, on the bench and on the sticks.40 rounds. If someone can't handle the recoil, simply use a round that is tolerable.

Agree Z.

I have only one rifle with a brake. It's an Ed Brown Damara in .300 Win Mag.

Ed supplied all his light weight magnums with brakes, said they were more accurate.

It's noisy, but is a great shooter and it does shoot better with the brake. The Damara is now discontinued, is such a fine rifle I'd never trade or sell it. It's a keeper, brake notwithstanding.

I wear ear protection and would never take it on a hunt when others would be nearby.

I have too many other fine guns for that.

DF

Check out Remington 66 posts on this link.

Bud I was refering to: our Zim buff slayer.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12097944

DF

Great posts and pics on that link!!

I'm a believer in applying the right rifle and cartridge to a specific situation. So, as much as I like my 500 NE DR and various 458s, the heavy mediums are tailor made for Cape buffalo. I prefer 404s (0.423" diameter bullets), but grudgingly admit that 416s are probably almost as good.

I like the .404J, too. Built one, but sold it after shoulder surg. Kept my Classic NH, M-70 .375 H&H.

Here's a link to .404J info, including ideas on building one on the cheap, well sorta cheap...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7846376/3

DF

Here's the one I kept. This link has posts by BobinNH. I really miss him.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...Number/11468586/Searchpage/1/Main/743270

DF

I always preferred the 416 Taylor to the others. I can make them on GEW length Mausers with only a small amount of work on the feed lips and opening up the bolt and extractor.
Still they fire a 400 grain bullet at 2350 or even 2400 just like the Rigby
My customers got more rifle for their money because the actions would cost about $150 to $175 instead of costing between $700 and $2200.
And the standard Mauser carries nicer then and magnum actions do because they are slimmer.

Just my ideas. Not all agree. But that what I think a 416 should be.

That's a SWEET .416 Taylor,Szihn!

That's actually 2 of them.
The one with the peep sight was made as a gift for a friend of mine here in Wyoming.
He's put a bunch of elk meat in his freezer with it too.
He uses Barnes X bullets and the gun will keep them touching at 100 yards. 2350 FPS.

The top 2 sets of pics were of my old rifle, but I ended up trading it off. maybe someday I'll make another one. It was lighter and slimmer than my 404 Jeffery and shot a 400 grain bullet 100 FPS faster. I love my 404, don't get me wrong. But I think all around, the 416 Taylor was probably a better gun to go hunt with.

I have made a lot of 416 Taylors and many of them have gone to Africa. I believe the count is 17 so far. I have never had any man complain about one (or the one woman I made one for either) If you like how the performs acts, you'll like the Taylor too. Same bullet, same speed.

Played around with the .416 Rem & Rigby,would not mind messing with the Taylor.

Just got to convince the wife though.

Now, that's nice, szihn.

What's the weight and how's the recoil?

DF

Well most I make come in at about 8-3/4 to 9 pounds. Because I make the stocks and turn the barrels I can adjust the weight to about any practical desired weight.

I guess I could make one at 7.25 pounds, but I doubt anyone would shoot it very many times.

When they come in at about 9 pounds, the recoil is less then a 458 by a noticeable margin, but heavier than a 375H&H. So I guess it's about what you'd expect. My 404 weighs 10 pounds and 9 oz, and I feel it doesn't kick any harder than my 375. So the 416s would be about the same if I were to make them about 10 pounds. Both shoot 400 grains bullets at aboutt he same speed. (I usually load my 404s to only 2200. I think that's all I need.


Wood density and barrel contour are ways to adjust the weight. I make them to the specs of the customer.

The single most useful rifle I have is a Dakota 76 African in .416 Rigby. It has taken DG at 16 paces and PG out to 200 yards.

At 11 lbs loaded with scope, it's a tad heavy, but with a good sling carries well and groups under an inch.

A PH friend has a 1920's Rigby .470 double, but his preferred backup rifle is a custom .416 Rigby built around a pre-war M98 action with open sights.

I once had a Dakota 76 in .270. Really nice rifle.

I traded it, wasn't using it. And, it was a .270...

DF

How could you not lose your hearing shooting a 416 rem with a brake and no hearing protection? I would have to use electronic hearing protection so I could hear and save what's left of my hearing.

I guessing he carries it a lot more than he shoots it.

I was surprised to hear a PH had a brake, having read so much negative stuff about brakes and PH's.

DF

You guys think the 416 Ruger will die? Seems to be floundering. The 375 Ruger is off to a good start. 416!? Not so well.

Seems we hear a lot about the .416 Remington.

It probably has a lot to do with rifles so chambered, price and availability.

DF

The

I have seen several .416 Remington rifles in Africa. All were Winchester M70's.

The .416 Remington is essentially an 8mm Remington Magnum necked up to .416. It duplicates the ballistics of the .416 Rigby in a standard length action, albeit at higher pressure levels and with a compressed charge of powder. While I have no numbers offhand, I would venture that because of it's shorter action length, more makers chamber rifles for the .416 Remington than are chambered for the .416 Rigby.

It is interesting to note that while a number of ammunition makers load the .416 Remington, it's parent company, Remington Arms, no longer catalogs .416 Remington ammunition.

While I own (and prefer) a .416 Rigby, there is nothing "wrong" with the .416 Remington and no reason not to own one of it suits your needs. 400 grains at 2,400 fps is still 400 grains at 2,400 fps; whether the case says .416 Rigby or .416 Remington. It will kill anything that walks this earth if you do your part.

Got an extra nib Win 375 H&H lefty(I am) that will be most likely a 416 Rem or maybe a 300 H&H. I'm really liking that way of that 20-22 inch fluted rig. Will be perfect for when I get around to a C.A.R. or Cameroon rainforest hunt. Often point blank run ins with stuff.

Those M-70 barrel shoot very well. With mine, I didn't have the heart to can it and add an aftermarket tube.

So, I started whittling it down until it felt right.

One Fire member made the comment on what a great cat gun it would be with the Victory 1.5-6x42 T* scope. I would agree, but never hunted big cats.

Now, someone like gunner500 would probably load 380 gr. Rhino bullets in the .375 H&H, turning it into a near .416.

No telling what he's do with a real .416...

DF

Photobucket sucks...

Here's the .375 H&H mentioned, flues by Karl.

DF

Well, I want(maybe need?) A Win lefty 416 and yes, those barrels are nice. Need to ponder would it be simpler, easier and CHEAPER to rechambered/rebore to 416, chop and flute? Any thoughts.

I'm guessing a chop/flute job will be close to a rebore/rechamber in cost, maybe a tad cheaper.

I'd call around and ask.

It depends on how you want the finished project to look and feel.

DF


Edited to add, Karl removed around 5 oz with this flute job. He had to work around NECG iron, ended up with 5 instead of the usual 6 flutes. He'd have lost more weight, maybe 6+ oz otherwise.

Yeah, I'm thinking just a rechambered/rebore with a chop. Don't really need the flutes, would be nice. But.... A few bucks here and a few there add up. Besides, I don't know if a very light 416 is something I'm gonna enjoy. My shoulder? Yes, on the carrying. My shoulder? No!! On the firing.

I also have a Dakota 76 African in 416 Rigby. With CEB Safari Raptor bullets and 100 grains of RL 22, it is a tack driver. One of the most accurate rifles I own. That rifle and my 500 NE have been my 2 gun Dangerous game battery for the past 3 safaris

Let me give you my 2 cents worth. Like Jorge said, PH is a different circumstance than the client hunter. In my experience with Cape Buffalo as a hunter and as an observer, good expanding bullets into the shoulder or chest in the case of a frontal shot seem to put them down much faster than solids. The client hunter usually has the luxuary of picking his shot, while the PH is most often either taking a raking shot on a departing wounded animal, or stopping the charge of an agitated animal. It that scenario, penetration is king, and driving a bullet to either break down a hip or shoulder, or to hit the brain/spine/CNS is all important.

After using solids in my .450/400, and 9.3 x 62, I went to TSX and RWS H-Mantle for the bolt gun, and 400grn Woodeleigh SP for the double and have been completely satisfied.

Good looking rifle right there.

All function, not much on asthetics.

An honest, handy working rifle.

Didn't think I was gonna like Tupperware, but the shape is about right, it handles well and you ain't gonna scratch or mess up the finish.

The trigger was tuned (by me) to a clean 3#'s, about right, IMO, for such a gun.

DF

I've forced myself to like plastic guns a couple of times. Just couldn't do it. They (all three) went downrange..

Agree on asthetics, plastic just not that pretty.

I guess you gotta look at a rifle like you would a tool to appreciate ugly.

I like a beautiful piece of lumber on a find classic action like the next guy.

I just hate to scratch up a fancy gun, feel more comfortable with an ugly gun.

Here's my custom FN 98 Swede/Shilen in a McWoody. To me this is trying to look pretty and still go synthetic

DF

Nice looking rifle. Gunner500 has my MacWoodie now

DF,
Please let me know if you ever have any interest in sending that 375 down the road:)

I finally got it where I want it. Plan to keep it.

It's currently my only big boomer, others traded, so it needs to function as a do all medium bore, which I think it'll do quite well.

The .375 H&H is very versatile, lots of load options for various applications.

Thanks for your interest.

DF

Ha, ha. Didn't figure you would want to part with it. Have a factory stainless classic that hasn't been cut and is sitting in an HS stock. It shoots so dang good I hesitate to cut it. Think I may have to put it in an Echol's stock one of these days and put NECG sights on it.

Chopping with a good crown won't hurt accuracy.

Karl is one of the best with flutes, he could probably do a chop job at the same time.

Mine balances very well, was way too barrel heavy before.

If I don't like one, I either fix it or move it. I chose to fix this one.

DF

Dad and I both have 76 Dakotas in .416 Rigby. I'm RH and he's LH. They are a great gun for the money. I actually found his on "The Fire" from a lefty who had it as a safe queen. His .416 Rigby took 3 buffalo in Tanzania, 1 lion in Zim, and 1 buffalo in Zim back in 2015. The 400 grain TSX is a great bullet--we never had an issue with the 6 buffalo we took that year. Unfortunately, the river valley was too open for the double rifles--especially when pursuing for bait more than for sport.

For those of you torn between the Rigby and the Remington, go with the traditional African cartridge. There is something to be said for having the same cartridge used in those old safari books that captivated you years ago.

Agree, kscowboy. My Dakota .416 Rigby is my most useful rifle and the last one I would ever consider selling. I recently handled one of the new .416 Mauser 98's and a .416 by Rigby's latest incarnation (they start out with a Mauser barreled action. Both Rigby and Mauser are now owned by Blaser). They were nice, but I would not trade my Dakota for one. The Dakota always shoots under an inch and is a tried and true safari veteran. It has accounted for multiple cape buff, a lion and many head of other African game, from klipspringer on up. When I leave on safari, my gun case usually contains the Dakota and my .470.

Dakotas are hard to beat, great guns.

You know, we love pictures...

DF

Regarding posting pics, quite honestly, I dunno how it works....

I think it's suggested to use the image gallery here. It's super easy to use. You then right click over the image, select "copy image location" from the drop down menu, then paste in between the image tags [img] [/img]